Fortuna Will Fail. Here's why.

[AnonumusSoldier]

1) We haven't been given much info on the spider bosses because they aren't finished yet. DE has already said that they won't ship completely with Fortuna. That being said, we already know that they will be exactly like Edilons, hard at first untill people have time to experiment to find the fastest possible method of killing them. 

2) This is literally nothing new with Warframe at all. There is a twofold reason, 1] DE has this weird obcession with wanting to include everybody in everything (le gasp how dare they)!!! 2]this is caused by the casual/new community that takes to the forums in droves to complain about anything difficult that would easily be solved by learning the game/investing in your gear.  We see this in pretty much every change in Warframe. Void Tower system to relics, melee 3.0, ESO difficulty gutted after a week of being up, Warframe and weapon reworks ect. The hardest content we have had in 3 years is Arbitrations, and they are just glorified sorties.

 

3) that's a personal opinion. DE has already said they won't let the grind be as bad, but still, this is farmframe, there's nothing wrong with having to start over, it gives you something to do. Just because your 5 million tons of alloy plate are useless for crafting all the items on day 1, doesn't mean it's bad.

 

4)zaws outclass thier standard/prime counterparts in every way, I have no doubt that kitguns will as well. Even if they are equal, they offer alot of customization options that look refreshing. The preview is most likely base version just like zaws and I'm sure there's a guilding feature.

 

5)people were actually dissapointed PoE is so small on launch, so I doubt that. People want a bigger landscape. As far as optimization, I used to play it on a 10 year old laptop with a 1.7 GHz processor and a gtx 640 just fine at 45fps, and recently bought a Dell g7 that was on sale with a 4.0 GHz processor and a 1080ti which runs even better, no special build required. Sure I don't get 1000fps, but it's not necessary, the game plays just fine without it, this isn't pvp where every frame counts.

 

6) again, personal opinion. Warframe is a sandbox, all roads lead to the enemy dead. Different mods mean diversity in builds, just because it's not "meta" doesn't mean it's wrong. I personally am looking forward to the kavat set, it looks very interesting. 

 

7) sooo every other warframe? The same case can be argued for most Warframes that they are just recycled abilities. Again, it's about diversity.

 

 

TDLR, it's not out yet so just chill. The game is about having fun, so even if it's not what you wanted/expected, why can't you just enjoy it for what it is? 

 

And as far as endgame content, DE will probably never make it the way you envision it because they have proven they want to include everybody in all content, and if they put out a mission mode that only an mr25 fully geared out player can handle the minority casual playerbase will riot till they seem like the majority till it's nerfed for them to handle it.

[DeathDweller]

It will fail if it doesn't meet certain requirements for players to come and stay to play it but since as you said we don't know what Fortuna has to offer, exept hunting poop and k-driving as we don't know about the bosses etc how are u so sure?That's why i stopped reading after the first few lines too.

People in Warframe really need to stop complaining for things that aren't out yet.Wait for them, play them and then come here crashing the forums for all i care.

[RadiantArin]

31 minutes ago, Airikr said:

i stopped after reading your level argument.

While the scaling does give some challenge in some sort of way until a certain degree, the level alone is doing literally nothing to add/remove challenge. These "veteran players" are just circling around their little "lul killed a lv3000 grineer yas" club which is nothing but using the laziest, most efficient and cheesiest way possible.


Getting into areas where you get oneshotted by anything is no challenge. That is Fake Difficulty and luckily DE seems to understand this part of game design.

 

Of course not. Level 3000 is ridiculous and a waste of time unless you're one of those weird people that likes to set world records or something. But for me, a nice challenge would be Level 100-120. Maybe a max cap of 130. 

24 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

If you want challenges, you might want to play something like UT99 or Quake 3 on highest difficulties instead of cookieclicker game like Warframe. 

Believe it or not, I actually had UT99 when I was a kid. Of course, that was almost fifteen years ago now.

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Anedime said:

GG, you're "And that's a good thing" away from sounding like a proper nu-age games blogger that has next to no understanding of videogames.

Wonderful rhetoric.

 

In regards to the gilded versus ungilded stats concerning the Kitguns, if it is actually the ungilded stats, then I am misinformed.

[MrJxt]

I would disagree. The devs received both positive and negative feedback on just about everything poe related. As a result, they made changes and improvements to poe from said feedback. Fortuna is developed with what they learned from poe to minimize their previous mistakes while also taking risks with new content that are subject to change based on community feedback.

[Nitro747]

50 minutes ago, RadiantArin said:

So before you jump on me for the title of the thread, I just want to state that this is all my personal opinion. I would very much like for the Fortuna update to succeed and bring in more players, but that's only from the standpoint of the new player. The standpoint from the veteran side of me has some personal qualms about how all of this is being handled. And I want to start with a couple of reasons why Fortuna won't keep the interest of the veterans, who have been begging for new content for over a year now.

1. We were not given any glimpse of any of the Spider bot bosses in Fortuna.

2. There is no challenge with Fortuna.

3. The farming will be atrocious.

4. Kitguns are bad. 

5. The size of the map will deter newcomers away.

6. The set mods are garbage.

7. Garuda is extremely underwhelming. 

1- We also were quite clueless on how to fight Teralysts and here we are killing them and their big brothers 4 times in a single night

2- How. Do. You. Know? PoE on highest level can be quite a pain if you are not used to it.

3- They reduced the farming for PoE over and over over the months and already stated that one of its biggest lessons for Fortuna is to reduce the amount of grind.

4- How. Do. You. Know?

5- Why? That doesn't even make any sense. AW launchers are already infinite and we will have k-drives. That doesnt make much sense...

6- No, they aren't. Some of them are quite OP tbh and its funny how you mentioned the most underwhelming set mod as an example of what little of it is actually good.

7- Underwhelming? A little bit. EXTREMELY? No, definitely not. And we havent seen her final build yet.

[Ventasis]

41 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

Here we go with an opinion thrown as a fact when it's complete speculation based on nothing. 

I give this OP a 1/10. Could have gone to 2 but that's for effort.

 

59 minutes ago, RadiantArin said:

So before you jump on me for the title of the thread, I just want to state that this is all my personal opinion.

 

[Xeryla]

so you're saying, you played a grindfest game and complain that there will be a new grindfest? that doesn't make sense

"GIVE VETERANS A CHALLENGE"

since I played this game this is the shiitiest word/logic I see almost everyday. 

The reality is

"VETERANS" does not make the game alive, it's the new players that makes the game alive

however you see it, even if they give a lvl 500 spiderbot or something, players will still find a cheese for it all over again

"ENDGAME" 

this is also a dream. stop it. this logic comes from those shiity streamers. 

[Agent_Maine]

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I was interested until you said veterans find arbitrations challenging...

No we don't.

[seprent]

i recall them saying the spider bots wont be dropping on day 1 but i could be wrong so feel free to correct me if im wrong

[Duality52]

1 hour ago, RadiantArin said:

Again, this is just one person speaking their own thoughts but personally I really don't think Fortuna is going to be that great. Warframe still doesn't have the identity it sorely needs. It doesn't have endgame CONTENT. And I'm not talking about Arbitrations where it's the same recycled mission type over and over again. I mean REAL ENDGAME CONTENT.

 

It feels like to me DE is slowly losing touch with the playerbase with what we really want, which is new content for endgame players. Not the same mistakes from PoE.

DE needs to cater to both new and veteran players to be successful. Claiming that they're "slowing losing touch with the playerbase" is absurd, considering that like the Plains, this is DE's path they're willing to risk and undergo. They even changed Garuda in response to the feedback after the Devstream; we need to wait until launch to see how effective the changes are.

"Endgame Content", as in what higher levels with additional loot? Challenge come from interactive mechanics players need to figure out or adapt to. Arbitrations work in a way because of the 1 life condition, it's a test. 

If you want a challenge, restrict your builds to the bare minimum mods new players have. You have control of the difficulty, why not take advantage of it?

Edited November 6, 2018 by Duality52

[RadiantArin]

10 minutes ago, Xeryla said:

"GIVE VETERANS A CHALLENGE"
 

Because we deserve it. Right now there's nothing to do except Arbitrations every hour and sit in our Orbiters twiddling our thumbs.

10 minutes ago, Xeryla said:

"VETERANS" does not make the game alive, it's the new players that makes the game alive
 

Yet, veterans are the same people that spend atrocious amounts of platinum on the game investing in DE's future. A new player will buy the first Prime Access and when they get bored of it, do nothing in return.

 

10 minutes ago, Xeryla said:

"ENDGAME" 

this is also a dream. stop it. this logic comes from those shiity streamers. 

Again, because we deserve it. What else am I going to use my 5 Forma Vaykor Hek on? Level 1-40 Grinner that I can just blow wind at and they will die on the spot? Also, why do you think streamers are shiity for wanting to have something to do in the game?

Edited November 6, 2018 by RadiantArin

[NinthAria]

Not for nothing, but leading with "Here's why Fortuna is going to fail" and then following with "but it's just my opinion" isn't the best way to start off if you're trying to have a meaningful discussion. Also, most of your points come across as woefully underinformed--which makes sense, because nobody outside DE has actually played Fortuna yet--but it comes off as more than a little presumptuous to just assume there's going to be a terrible grind, no challenge at all, etc. in a massive update we've only seen small glimpses of in devstreams.

Also, the reason they haven't shown off the Orb much is because they want players to figure out how to kill it for themselves. They showed equally little of the teralyst when Plains of Eidolon was in production, for the exact same reason. Teaching players how to do your content is generally not a good use of devstream time.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but many of the players are not veteran players who need a major challenge like level 500 enemies. A game that edits their game purely for try-hards is a game that doesn’t last long. I’ve played since PS4 launch and I would not like enemies to be insanely powerful on a planet as early as Venus. The game feeds on new players and getting newer players to buy plat packs and PA. If you put out enemies too difficult for players to actually engage, they would simply move on to other games and not spend money here. Those players who spend money are the reason we are even getting Fortuna or any of the last few years of content. Just accept that some games do not need mind breaking challenges. 

[Sajochi]

14 minutes ago, Ventasis said:

 Literally nothing

 

Saying it's your opinion and then having a title like that is throwing that opinion as fact. That's what OP is doing.

[chuckdm]

1) "We weren't allowed to see content in advance of release and therefore it must be bad."  Not even going to respond to this.

2) "Level 50/80/100/200/etc isn't enough 'challenge' for "veterans'"  There's 3 different directions to pick this apart from.  First, as someone with over 3,000 hours playing since 2014 (pretty sure I qualify as a "veteran") I can tell you that I don't actually LIKE what most people consider "challenge" in this game.  I've gone 2 hours on a T4 survival (before the Void rework) at least 3 times and every time it was just boring.  Just plain boring.  It wasn't even hard - if you brought most frames it was impossible, and if you brought Loki or another cheese frame, it was just boring.  These days what I value is not "challenge" but rather fun.  I'd much rather kill a thousand lv20 grineer with a frame nobody uses than survive for hours with a meta cheese frame against lv200s.  And guess what?  That's just me!  Plenty of people are like you and actually enjoy fighting lv200 bombards and nullifiers for hours, and to you I say that's great, have fun, but know that you are ONE kind of "veteran" and there are others who do not get any joy from increased "challenge."  And besides all that, challenge in Warframe is, and always has been, whatever you make it.  If you think fighting Eidolons is too easy, bring something squishy and make it harder.  It's not DE's fault that you brought the PERFECT tool for the job and then complain that the job was too easy to complete.

3) The farming is ALWAYS ridiculous.  If you don't expect to do any farming for new content why are you even playing this game?  No, really?  That said, I've spent around 100 hours in PoE, total, and I already have over 10,000 of every common resource there along with at least 200 of all the rare gems and such.  Warframe may require a lot of farming, true, but it's also quite generous with drops if you don't spend all your time wandering the spaces between drop points and focus on the areas where crates and enemies are.  If the grind in Fortuna isn't any worse than PoE I will be more than happy to spend my next 100 hours there.

4) "Stats on this particular unguilded grip and barrel are bad thus the entire system sucks."  Wow.  Ok, disregarding the unguilded part for a sec because everyone else already told you about that, right now I have a Zaw with a 51% crit chance BEFORE MODS.  After mods with the right frame abilities, I'm getting orange crits about 90% of the time with a 4.7x crit damage mult and base damage around 300, also before mods, mostly Slash.  Oh and it's a polearm so all that damage is hitting up to 15 enemies at a time.  It's a literal god-tier weapon and it's all built from 2nd-tier or lower blueprints/parts.  But before this?  I built 4 other zaws with awful stats.  They were slow and had neither good crit nor status and I basically threw them together solely on looks and that was a bad idea.  Still, resources were so easy to acquire (see #3) I didn't mind and I even kept one of them for fashionframe purposes.  My point?  I'm sure there are dozens upon dozens of Kitgun options that will suck very, very hard.  Just as I'm also equally sure there will be 5 or 6 combinations which will be the new best secondary weapons in the entire game.  And guess what?  People will just not bother assembling the crappy ones, period.

Also, they're not the "bread and butter, most hyped" feature, at least for me.  That'd be the Build-a-Moa Workshop.  More pets are always a good thing.

5) "The size of the map will scare the newbies."  I have no idea where you're getting this from.  When I look for a new game to play, I WANT a large map.  Sure, it will be a bit overwhelming at first, but a large map means that once I figure it out I won't run through everything it has to offer in a single day.  A large map means replay-ability.  Even if you're right, only new players who don't understand the kind of long-term investment of their time that all of Warframe requires are going to have a problem with it.  The large map will be less of a ward against new players and more of a filter that will filter out some of the less serious ones.  If anything, this is a positive thing.

6) I haven't looked at the set mods so I will withhold judgement about them specifically except to say that:

6A) People said the same about the set mods for PoE and they are some of my favorite mods in the game, especially Gladiator, and

6B) I bet that the reason you think they're garbage is the same reason you think "challenge" is the most important thing DE should be designing towards, i.e. "if the enemies don't take 3 magazines to kill and aren't insta-killing you and don't require cheese then why bother?" and if so, the problem, again, is that you're failing to consider that some veterans are perfectly happy with things (mod sets or otherwise) that aren't better, they're just different.  If anything, I WANT more sidegrades and less direct upgrades.  One of my favorite things about Warframe is there is never a single "best" frame or gun.  There's always a god-tier, sure, but even within that tier there's many options.  If we ever have a single "best" frame or weapon, THAT is what will kill the game.

7) Perhaps the only point you made that I'll ever agree with, but to be clear I haven't seen Garuda.  That said, Revenant seems too much like Nekros, Gara was too much like Frost, etc.  In fact, in 4 years of play, Revenant is the first frame I just straight up ignored.  I'm already MR22 and I just took a look at him and said "nope."  In retrospect, I wish I had done the same with Gara because I sold her a month ago when I realized I had used her exactly once since I finished her 3rd forma.  DE has been hitting a mental wall on new frame ideas for a while now, or rather, on new ability ideas.  Frankly, I wish DE would just say "no new frames for a year" and literally retrain the entire team that handles those onto something else, like new enemy types or something.  Still, this has little to do with Fortuna, which I for one believe will be a great success.

rl;dr If the only real problem with Fortuna is that there's no lv300 enemies and the corresponding frame is "meh" then I'm going to declare the update a raging success and grin like an 8 year old in a candy store for a whole week.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but many of the players are not veteran players who need a major challenge like level 500 enemies. A game that edits their game purely for try-hards is a game that doesn’t last long. I’ve played since PS4 launch and I would not like enemies to be insanely powerful on a planet as early as Venus. The game feeds on new players and getting newer players to buy plat packs and PA. If you put out enemies too difficult for players to actually engage, they would simply move on to other games and not spend money here. Those players who spend money are the reason we are even getting Fortuna or any of the last few years of content. Just accept that some games do not need mind breaking challenges. 

You weren't around for Raids huh? Raids launched from Earth, an early planet and contained harder content. And yet new playera were easily able to skip this and continue through to the next planet, avoiding that difficulty spike. Why can't Fortuna do the same? Because new players feel they should be able to access everything right away, that's why and no other reason.

[BeeWhyOhBee]

wait, its not out yet but it failed already? how? 

[4thBro]

"Fortuna Will Fail. Here's why."

 

The capitalizations in this title were strike #1.

 

"This is all my personal opinion" after the title makes a straight declaration was strike #2.

 

Glancing through your various points and seeing things like, "I didn't get a preview so it will be bad," or, "there will be no challenge just like everything else in WF but this time it will randomly be why this content is bad," or any of the other faulty points... That's strike #3.

 

You're out.

[JawNuts]

That clickbait title got me here.

[Gamma745]

[ScoutAA]

1 hour ago, RadiantArin said:

So before you jump on me for the title of the thread, I just want to state that this is all my personal opinion. I would very much like for the Fortuna update to succeed and bring in more players, but that's only from the standpoint of the new player. The standpoint from the veteran side of me has some personal qualms about how all of this is being handled. And I want to start with a couple of reasons why Fortuna won't keep the interest of the veterans, who have been begging for new content for over a year now.

1. We were not given any glimpse of any of the Spider bot bosses in Fortuna. We got a very small sneak peek during one of the dev-streams/Prime Times where Reb fought a Spider Bot Boss that was about Level 500 or something like that. If the Spider Bot bosses end up just being shallow Level 50 bosses much like Eidolons are, then there really isn't any point in chasing after the content because we'll just steam roll it anyway. To me, this was the most interesting part of Fortuna and for it to be neutered like this is going to be a painful blow to deal with.

2. There is no challenge with Fortuna. This kind of ties in with Point #1. If the Spider Bot enemies are going to be capped at Level 50 or some low level that isn't going to give veteran players a proper challenge, there's no point in playing Fortuna. All the enemies that were shown off in Fortuna are Level 20 Corpus trash fodder enemies that can be killed with a literal stick. Again, to the new player side, that's fine. But for us veterans, there isn't going to be much of a challenge there. We would just rather do Arbitrations because those actually present a challenge to us. An artificial difficulty challenge, but it's still challenging than Sorties.

3. The farming will be atrocious. We already know that's going to be a given. Us Veterans don't want to sit down and have to start EVERYTHING OVER AGAIN with Fortuna. Given how immense and polarized the farming was for PoE, the farming for Fortuna will likely be three times worse.

4. Kitguns are bad. The bread and butter, the creme of the crop, the most hyped up aspect of Fortuna that EVERYONE was jumping on the bandwagon for......is terrible. 

If this image is anything to look at from what was posted on the official website, these gun stats are absolute garbage. This chamber says that the gun will do 58 damage with 22% Critical Chance and 2.3x Multiplier. You know what has better stats? A REGULAR #*!%ING LEX. THAT YOU CAN BUY FOR 50K CREDITS. THAT DEALS ALMOST THREE TIMES THE DAMAGE. To add fuel to the fire, let's say this particular chamber needs 10k Credits, some Rubedo, some Fortuna Material, and Fortuna Gems for example (this is a complete hypothetical situation). It would just be more convenient to buy a straight upgrade for 50k Credits that can literally carry you through the game instead of having to waste time and resources crafting these.

Speaking of time and money, if Zaws are anything to go by, Kitguns will be extremely expensive to Forma if you're crazy for some reason and want to upgrade these things. The best Crit build for Secondaries is 5 Forma and the best Status Builds are 2-3 Forma. The reason Zaws aren't THAT Forma intensive is because you can put on Stances to increase Capacity. No such luck with Primaries and Secondaries, meaning you'll be sinking more Forma into a gun that's not even going to be able to kill Level 50s efficiently. No veteran wants that and I don't even think a newer player wants that.

5. The size of the map will deter newcomers away. Bigger isn't always better. If the map is convoluted or confusing to get around in, especially on foot, when newer players don't have access to Archwing Launchers or K-Drives, they're going to get frustrated and not play anymore. Plus, there are a number of issues that STILL TO THIS DAY haven't been solved regarding PoE's quality of optimization. Yes, the map is big, but there are people still even on Steam that can't even access PoE because they can't get past the door. Forgive me if I seem a little rude here but that is bullS#&$. I had to build my rig specifically so that I could run PoE and thank goodness I did, because I am actually sorry for all those people that can't experience Eidolon fights and can't grind the required materials needed to make the end game gear from PoE.

6. The set mods are garbage. With the exception of Tek Gravity and Mecha Pulse, and MAYBE Tek Collateral for some meme-y builds, absolutely none of these Mods are going to be used. 

7. Garuda is extremely underwhelming. Garuda looks like a combination of a clunky Volt, Valkyr, Nyx, and Revenant. Garuda is too many frames trying to be one frame. Her entire idea needs to be scrapped and rethought of, especially if her release is coming with Fortuna. Newer players and even some veterans are going to see Garuda, see how clunky she is, use her for MR fodder, and never use her again. At least Revenant and Khora are decent and Gara is good, but Garuda is extremely bland and boring, with a hodgepodge of ideas tacked onto a single frame. Her weapons look cool though, so props.

 

Again, this is just one person speaking their own thoughts but personally I really don't think Fortuna is going to be that great. Warframe still doesn't have the identity it sorely needs. It doesn't have endgame CONTENT. And I'm not talking about Arbitrations where it's the same recycled mission type over and over again. I mean REAL ENDGAME CONTENT.

 

It feels like to me DE is slowly losing touch with the playerbase with what we really want, which is new content for endgame players. Not the same mistakes from PoE.

It feels like to me DE is slowly losing touch with what you really want, which is content for endgame players.

[Highlord83]

"Veteran Players"

Oh, you mean the ones that have spent the last six months logging in for twenty seconds to get the login reward and leaving? The ones that don't actually support the game anymore and spend most of the time groaning about not being directly catered to? The ones that think they're entitled to special consideration and treatment because they've played a video game longer than others?

Those guys? Yeah, screw them.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Highlord83

[LupisV0lk]

Opinion does not equate to facts OP.

[(XBOX)chillichillman]

Warframe is not about endgame.  It is about the grind.  It always has been, it always will be.  The closest thing to an end-game that will ever truly fit warframe, is just a higher level alert with ridiculous enemy spawns to let you just unleash fury upon hordes of victims.  And I'm speaking as a veteran player.  I'm very off-and-on with warframe, but I always go for a long grind whenever I feel like it.  I enjoy the game.  I enjoy killing a level 1 enemy almost as much as I enjoy killing a level 100.  And critiquing Fortuna before it's released, isn't a smart move.  Considering we don't know what they've changed, what's been polished to what extent, we don't know exactly what's in store.  We don't know how to kill the spider-bots: that's awesome.  That's a refreshing sort of grind for us, a chance to become detectives (or to hit the wiki).

If you want a game that attempts to please everyone, look at vanilla Destiny 2.  Bungie even said so in an interview they did.  It doesn't work.  Not every gun will be a god-killer, not every enemy will be a team breaker, and not every boss needs to belong in a dark souls game.  So just sit back, relax, and keep on farming.

and remember, keep on farmin.  Why? pssh, idk.