Can We Stop Catering to New Players?

[Naftal]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Isn’t somehow players called themselves “Veterans” fault, which are screaming for new content, speaking about drought and forcing DE to release new content each week? 

DE aren't releasing new content each week, there's no forcing happening.

Somehow people here are trying to stereotype veterans into toxic.

I don't even understand what the point of your post is. What fault?

[(XBOX)Eminem2420]

2 minutes ago, Naftal said:

DE aren't releasing new content each week, there's no forcing happening.

Somehow people here are trying to stereotype veterans into toxic.

I don't even understand what the point of your post is. What fault?

We are not the reason for that stereotype. The actions of people in this thread and elsewhere are why people think that. You are responsible for how you portray yourself, not us.

[Chappie]

19 hours ago, Nihil501 said:

Make your own challange. Go into ESO without mods. Or into endless arbitration...i mean...really endless. Set your own scoreboard how long you can last. ect.

As an FYI...this argument statement right here is a "non-starter" for any form of discussion.   You are telling people to invalidate thing they have done in terms of the "player power fantasy" this game has.   Thus, for all intents and purposes you are telling a group of people "they don't matter".   This is no different than the very start of this thread saying "new people don't matter".   Same coin..otherside.

The only legitimate choice DE has to provide any challenge to veterans is to make it harder in some way shape or form other than say "don't use the power we gave to you".    It is in DE's best interest to not invalidate any investment people put in gear....it goes right to their bottom line.   Personally, I see more hope in Fortuna with difficulty scaling than I have with all previous content in that DE added another variable (the alert level); we have a chance for everyone to experience something they might enjoy.

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Chappie1975

[(PSN)Onder6099]

41 minutes ago, Naftal said:

DE aren't releasing new content each week, there's no forcing happening.

Somehow people here are trying to stereotype veterans into toxic.

I don't even understand what the point of your post is. What fault?

Players which already, by their mean, have everything ingame are forcing DE to release new content, without any discussion, forgetting how huge it is for new players. I’m nearly 5 years in game, got everything around 6 months ago, but if I should start to play WF today and I know how huge content is waiting for me I will probably don’t start.

[Ohmlink]

They could just add a challenge mode and just scale it up 50 levels. Have a recommended conclave rating to help people know what kind of gear standard they need to do the bounties.

DE is so lucky to have a game with such borked balance yest still be fun and popular.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

Well, see part of it is because this content is being used to attract a lot of new players and that also means more income. If you had a bunch of new content that was all locked or hard to do, fewer people are probibly going to stick arond then currently do. That is also partly why the open worlds have been starter planets and such- low bar to enter.

We are gong from what warframe was into the new thing where as more people are coming for the open world and then finding the rest of the game after. 

[CoolDudeMcCool]

1 hour ago, Arc2199 said:

Plenty of new content in Fortuna now and even the new spider battles coming up. Just reverting the nerf would be awesome.

Because right now even though the content is there. ITS NOT FUN ANYMORE. IT WAS AT RELEASE TO THE DIFFICULTY.

IT'S FUN NOW. IT WASN'T AT RELEASE TO THE DIFFICULTY.

I'm having fun in Fortuna now. You can't just shout that it was better then, because I can shout that it's better now. Stop asking to screw over people who are happy - plenty of people are suggesting much better ideas than you. Threat levels, a more challenging setting, areas that are harder than others, you are asking to take away the option of difficulty instead of making the options better, so your idea is just bad.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

The sodium levels are approaching critical mass in this thread

 

[brucifer1]

Honestly I don't personally play Warframe for a challenge but to blow off stress crushing hordes of annoying pests and causing utter havok. That said I am enjoying Fortuna: Crushing the Corpus, seeing them driven before me, and hearing the lamentation of their moas. However I do think that Veteran players who do want a challenge should have an extremely high level area for them that is not nerfed down to be accessible for new folks. Of course when DE does try to move in that direction they are often told the rewards don't justify the effort, and how to reward high level vets who are already extremely powerful becomes a problem. High level content that is hard enough to satisfy those seeking challenge and with rewards said players feel happy with is something the team has yet to accomplish, nor have the forums come up with anything close to a consensus on the issue.

For those of you wanting challenge; do you want a high end open world area, high level raids, one or more planets with a variety of high level missions, or something else? Also what would be a suitable reward for completing these considering the players who would enjoy them are already extremely powerful to start with and thus would find most rewards to be underwhelming?

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

1 minute ago, brucifer1 said:

Honestly I don't personally play Warframe for a challenge but to blow off stress crushing hordes of annoying pests and causing utter havok. That said I am enjoying Fortuna: Crushing the Corpus, seeing them driven before me, and hearing the lamentation of their moas. However I do think that Veteran players who do want a challenge should have an extremely high level area for them that is not nerfed down to be accessible for new folks. Of course when DE does try to move in that direction they are often told the rewards don't justify the effort, and how to reward high level vets who are already extremely powerful becomes a problem. High level content that is hard enough to satisfy those seeking challenge and with rewards said players feel happy with is something the team has yet to accomplish, nor have the forums come up with anything close to a consensus on the issue.

For those of you wanting challenge; do you want a high end open world area, high level raids, one or more planets with a variety of high level missions, or something else? Also what would be a suitable reward for completing these considering the players who would enjoy them are already extremely powerful to start with and thus would find most rewards to be underwhelming?

I will leave a like for any post with a Conan reference

[CoolDudeMcCool]

Just in general, I'd like to point out the idea that there's plenty of 'new' content for new players is true, the idea itself is fine. But what's going to draw people into that content? Do we advertise stuff that has been around for years? Fortuna is something new and pretty that they can tell everyone all about, it's kinda weird to do that with old stuff, especially if it's not in a very good state.

[Chaemyerelis]

It dawned on me that perhaps all enemies should act like the enemies on Orb Vallis with their additional attacks and enemy compositions. It would set a precedent with slightly more challenging enemies across the starchart without being too difficult and possibly help with enemy level inflation. They could even reduce the amount if enemies thrown at you in the starchart map.

I say this as a relatively casual player btw. 

 

#just a thought

[(PSN)Zero_029]

Another big takeaway from this thread that I honestly think WOULD benefit Warframe comes from both:

@Arc2199 & @Hypernaut1

Scaling up enemies to be tougher again isn't the answer. Enemies should be unique.

I think along with Melee 3.0, the game should get a flat out Enemy 2.0 update.

Where all enemies are revamped & become unique.

With Lancers & Elite Lancers being more than just a different equipped weapon. Elite Lancers should have abilities that Lancers don't.

Scorpions should not only drag enemies but should have Valkyr's #1.

Bursa Units, Comba & Scrambus should regain their old strength (speed up the aura casting animation), Commaders should cast Switch teleport faster & it should CC players again.

Hyekka & Drahk should function like player Kavat & Kubrows & have the same abilities such as Charm, Cat's Eye, Charge, Takedown/Finish. To be blunt they should be able to CC, Red Crit buff enemy units, & use finishers on players.

Also, I feel at this stage of the game enemy weaponry should change based on level & enemy type.

A Butcher at level 1 uses a Cleaver, fine. But at level 59 it should be called a Tormentor & use an Attarax.

A Corpus Crewman uses a Prova. Fine but a Level 50 Crewman should be called something like a Guardsman & use a Serro.

There are hundreds of weapons that don't get used by enemies.

Part of what made/makes Fortuna so tough is that the enemies are using Plasmors & other weapons that until now were mostly exclusive to players.

I'd love to see a Grineer Sniper using a Velocitus (Grineer units already use Archwing Weapons).

Grineer units actually using Hek Shotguns, Sydon Polearms, Tonkor, Atomos, Stug, Maralok, & etc.

Corpus actually using Penta, Convectrix, Tetra, Quanta, & etc.

Infested Chargers units using Helminth Charger abilities & new infested units that use Infested weapons such as Pox, Toxocyst, Mire, Caustacyst, & etc.

If the enemies used more of the available weapons & updated their gear as new weapons are added to the game then they become dynamic & players would be challenged.

These weapons also should match the Max damage that adding damage increasing mods does. I daresay they should be modded by RNG. This makes it to where no enemy is the same & can make some enemy units something to be feared.

I'd also like for enemies to receive elemental grenades. Magnetic, Corrosive, Viral, Blast, & Nullifier grenades.

All this would create a true sense of challenge. So instead of fighting level 300 enemies for a challenge. A level 150 (the current I believe Simalacrum level cap) enemy is seen as a SERIOUS threat & is treated as such.

Edit:

I still feel DE did the right thing by fixing an unintentional balance issue. But it's obvious that what got players the most excited was the chaos of the tactics the new corpus units in Fortuna use. Which is telling.

Players need dynamic combat. Expanding enemy arsenals, adding new abilities, & revamping current enemies would definitely scratch that itch players are asking for.

But...if DE were to do this. It needs to stick. When players start complaining that enemies are annoying...DE needs to ignore it.

Let players adapt/retain the challenge presented.

Edited November 19, 2018 by (PS4)Zero_029

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, brucifer1 said:

That said I am enjoying Fortuna: Crushing the Corpus, seeing them driven before me, and hearing the lamentation of their moas. 

I seriously dgaf about the rest of the nonsense people have spouted on this thread thread, but someone please tell me how to up vote this particular line a few million times. 😂

[CaptainShortbus]

The game is honestly embarrassing in a lot of aspects. I don't really play too much anymore, and all of my other friends that did have quit as well. The OP really has exposed where it all comes from.

1. No point in going past 20 mins, ever. Instead of having percent drop rates increase each successive loot rotation, DE makes it so you just need to restart the mission, and run it again. And again. With the old void keys you could at least do 40 or 60 to be more efficient, but now you need to use a new relic every time.

2. As a result of 1, no point in having team synergy in 99% of the content. Why put in any effort when one person will just hard carry you for free? Even sorties are easy enough that a single person will usually do all of the heavy lifting while others get carried.

3. Catering to whining of new players. Weren't around for when the rift sigil was actually hard to get? Let's add it back and make it a joke to get. Weren't around for ____ prime accessory? Let's add it back at 20% of the price. Couldn't get ____ item? Well, we better add it back.

Putting aside the massive weapon and frame imbalances which plague the game, these 3 are the worst. Friends of mine who bought the ember prime pack shortly after the founders access ended assumed that "exclusive" meant the very expensive syandana would be unavailable. Instead DE grandfathers in the "prime vault", resells it, and effectively removes it as a status symbol. The same thing is happening with every other "exclusive" prime access avatar and accessory. In a game without achievements or titles, it's pretty important to have cosmetic things that remain exclusive. Really disrespectful and misleading to people who bought them many years ago.

If any of you reading this are dissatisfied with the game, just stop playing and find a game that will respect your time and money. 

[CoolDudeMcCool]

26 minutes ago, CaptainShortbus said:

The game is honestly embarrassing in a lot of aspects. I don't really play too much anymore, and all of my other friends that did have quit as well. The OP really has exposed where it all comes from.

1. No point in going past 20 mins, ever. Instead of having percent drop rates increase each successive loot rotation, DE makes it so you just need to restart the mission, and run it again. And again. With the old void keys you could at least do 40 or 60 to be more efficient, but now you need to use a new relic every time.

2. As a result of 1, no point in having team synergy in 99% of the content. Why put in any effort when one person will just hard carry you for free? Even sorties are easy enough that a single person will usually do all of the heavy lifting while others get carried.

3. Catering to whining of new players. Weren't around for when the rift sigil was actually hard to get? Let's add it back and make it a joke to get. Weren't around for ____ prime accessory? Let's add it back at 20% of the price. Couldn't get ____ item? Well, we better add it back.

Putting aside the massive weapon and frame imbalances which plague the game, these 3 are the worst. Friends of mine who bought the ember prime pack shortly after the founders access ended assumed that "exclusive" meant the very expensive syandana would be unavailable. Instead DE grandfathers in the "prime vault", resells it, and effectively removes it as a status symbol. The same thing is happening with every other "exclusive" prime access avatar and accessory. In a game without achievements or titles, it's pretty important to have cosmetic things that remain exclusive. Really disrespectful and misleading to people who bought them many years ago.

If any of you reading this are dissatisfied with the game, just stop playing and find a game that will respect your time and money. 

I don't have much to say for the first two points, but the third one? Why are you getting fashionable things as a status symbol? Get it if it looks good, don't if it doesn't. That's about it. People should be able to have access to fashion things because that drives a lot of the people here, if something looks good then people are going to want it(that doesn't mean it has to be easy to get), at most something like a sigil or those emblems should remain exclusive, but even then, most people probably use that stuff for fashion. Most people aren't going to care about your 'status' but they'll care about looking good. You still know your worth - even if someone gets something super easily, you know you got it the hard way and you can keep those memories in your head. Nobody else is going to care, most of the time.

Status symbols are fine, but when that 'status symbol' is more prominent as a fashion item, then it's a fashion item and people should have access to it. Something like badges on someone's profile or something next to their name in-game, that's a status symbol that could remain exclusive. People will know your 'status' just by looking, and it won't bar them from anything they might actually want.

[CoolDudeMcCool]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

A Corpus Crewman uses a Prova. Fine but a Level 50 Crewman should be called something like a Guardsman & use a Serro.

Just a heads up, I'm pretty sure Grineer have a Guardsman unit, and the Serro is supposedly a tool that rebels started using as a weapon, I get what you mean but these examples are probably a bit iffy

[(PSN)Zero_029]

26 minutes ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

Just a heads up, I'm pretty sure Grineer have a Guardsman unit, and the Serro is supposedly a tool that rebels started using as a weapon, I get what you mean but these examples are probably a bit iffy

I didn't research every single item in the game. I was just listing examples.

We as players use stronger weapons from day 1 than the NPCs. If the tables were evened out. I expect that the challenge that the Veteran & Hardcore communities crave would be met until they get annoyed with the fact that enemies can't be cheesed as easily anymore.

I mean players want more challenge? I say DE needs to make enemies dynamic. Make players dread a room full of attarax wielding grinder, a new grineer unit who rushes players with a Hek or hell Dual Heks.

It'd breath life into combat that's for sure.

[CoolDudeMcCool]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

I didn't research every single item in the game. I was just listing examples.

We as players use stronger weapons from day 1 than the NPCs. If the tables were evened out. I expect that the challenge that the Veteran & Hardcore communities crave would be met until they get annoyed with the fact that enemies can't be cheesed as easily anymore.

I mean players want more challenge? I say DE needs to make enemies dynamic. Make players dread a room full of attarax wielding grinder, a new grineer unit who rushes players with a Hek or hell Dual Heks.

It'd breath life into combat that's for sure.

At the very least it would be nice to see units using different weapons

 

Edit: I'm really tired and should've put more here

Edited November 20, 2018 by CoolDudeMcCool

[le_souriceau]

For me economic pressure on vets is even more painful then easy battles (ideed this is connected issues).

As occasional (but passionate) trader, I'm constantly (by the Void!) loosing in assets. Almost everything in game becoming cheaper and cheaper (with clear view of DE hand in this). And its pretty hard to "outpace" this price destroying with selling stuff ang going in plat with good profit (because eveyone thinks same, what a surprise).

- most of mods hopelessly overfarmed

- arcanes (most) dirt cheap

- unvaultings and baro items TOO regular and predictable

- overall prime part farming too easy and fast

- events too fast to return, like let me guess, we had acolytes this summer? they return in +/- january, so we must to sell your argon scopes and maiming strikes asap and for lame money in december (or they will be even more cheaper next time, forever).

So prices now more like stairs down, then waves. If you not sold something in 2018, in 2019 prices will be even lower. And worthless in 2020. And this is not only monetary problem, its fun to have or desire really rare things (not just 10 p item, 50 p item and 100 p item).

Sorry for english. Hope this barely understandable.

Edited November 20, 2018 by le_souriceau

[LupisV0lk]

8 hours ago, CaptainShortbus said:

If any of you reading this are dissatisfied with the game, just stop playing and find a game that will respect your time and money. 

You lot talk up a storm about respect, but it doesn't mean what you think it does.

Let alone the fact that you people aren't showing any.

[Autongnosis]

Le 14/11/2018 à 17:46, TacitParasite11 a dit :

See there's the thing though, new players are limited to their loadout and what mods they have, along with credits and endo. This nerf was to keep the enemies in line with their level and with the rest of the game, and, apparently, someone posted about being able to raise the enemies to level 125 in Fortuna (I don't know how, but someone did). And you're looking at an open world that is levels 10-30, by no means is it supposed to be difficult in any phrase of the word, but that's why DE also gave us the alert system so that you can get swarmed by enemies and it creates that challenge, even if you'll say it's just fake difficulty.

I would believe this about new players if it weren't for the fact the landscapes never where for newer players. The EASIEST bounty gets to lv 20 which will destroy anyone who could be considered new. And those are necessary for any progression.

Let alone for the fact that from the 2nd rank on you require med bonds which drop from the 30-40 bounty which only someone well over Sedna can handle

 

Frankly speaking the only thing a new player can realistically do is admire the pretty view. They have not the gear nor the knowledge of the game's progression systems to properly interact with the landscapes. 

Remember that the landscapes are not even 10-30 (which again is hideously overleveled for venus plaers) but 10-60.

Being on the starter planets with no hard locks is barely more than a marketing stunt at this point (a good one at that).

 

That said they did say they were looking into bringing that kind of challenge back so I'm cautiously optimistic. The alert level was and still is a good system from the start, the enemies lost their teeth tho. I hope they'll get them back tbh. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Autongnosis

[Makunogo]

idk if anyone mentioned something along these lines. but the whole alert level thing would be so cool in other places... like survival/excavation. o o.

they should cater to new players tho not in everything. but also give a way to make it more challenging. and putting alert level in endless missions could help with that.

 

Edit: i read no posts before this LOL
 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Makunogo

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 12 heures, (PS4)Onder6099 a dit :

Players which already, by their mean, have everything ingame are forcing DE to release new content, without any discussion, forgetting how huge it is for new players. I’m nearly 5 years in game, got everything around 6 months ago, but if I should start to play WF today and I know how huge content is waiting for me I will probably don’t start.

Like every MMO ever created...? I really don't see what the problem is here. This is a MMO-lite looter, they are ALL behemoths because their drop tables need to support the whole game... 

Il y a 11 heures, (XB1)Thy Divinity a dit :

The sodium levels are approaching critical mass in this thread

I agree. Boi o boi. 

[Hypernaut1]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Another big takeaway from this thread that I honestly think WOULD benefit Warframe comes from both:

@Arc2199 & @Hypernaut1

Scaling up enemies to be tougher again isn't the answer. Enemies should be unique.

I think along with Melee 3.0, the game should get a flat out Enemy 2.0 update.

Where all enemies are revamped & become unique.

With Lancers & Elite Lancers being more than just a different equipped weapon. Elite Lancers should have abilities that Lancers don't.

Scorpions should not only drag enemies but should have Valkyr's #1.

Bursa Units, Comba & Scrambus should regain their old strength (speed up the aura casting animation), Commaders should cast Switch teleport faster & it should CC players again.

Hyekka & Drahk should function like player Kavat & Kubrows & have the same abilities such as Charm, Cat's Eye, Charge, Takedown/Finish. To be blunt they should be able to CC, Red Crit buff enemy units, & use finishers on players.

Also, I feel at this stage of the game enemy weaponry should change based on level & enemy type.

A Butcher at level 1 uses a Cleaver, fine. But at level 59 it should be called a Tormentor & use an Attarax.

A Corpus Crewman uses a Prova. Fine but a Level 50 Crewman should be called something like a Guardsman & use a Serro.

There are hundreds of weapons that don't get used by enemies.

Part of what made/makes Fortuna so tough is that the enemies are using Plasmors & other weapons that until now were mostly exclusive to players.

I'd love to see a Grineer Sniper using a Velocitus (Grineer units already use Archwing Weapons).

Grineer units actually using Hek Shotguns, Sydon Polearms, Tonkor, Atomos, Stug, Maralok, & etc.

Corpus actually using Penta, Convectrix, Tetra, Quanta, & etc.

Infested Chargers units using Helminth Charger abilities & new infested units that use Infested weapons such as Pox, Toxocyst, Mire, Caustacyst, & etc.

If the enemies used more of the available weapons & updated their gear as new weapons are added to the game then they become dynamic & players would be challenged.

These weapons also should match the Max damage that adding damage increasing mods does. I daresay they should be modded by RNG. This makes it to where no enemy is the same & can make some enemy units something to be feared.

I'd also like for enemies to receive elemental grenades. Magnetic, Corrosive, Viral, Blast, & Nullifier grenades.

All this would create a true sense of challenge. So instead of fighting level 300 enemies for a challenge. A level 150 (the current I believe Simalacrum level cap) enemy is seen as a SERIOUS threat & is treated as such.

Edit:

I still feel DE did the right thing by fixing an unintentional balance issue. But it's obvious that what got players the most excited was the chaos of the tactics the new corpus units in Fortuna use. Which is telling.

Players need dynamic combat. Expanding enemy arsenals, adding new abilities, & revamping current enemies would definitely scratch that itch players are asking for.

But...if DE were to do this. It needs to stick. When players start complaining that enemies are annoying...DE needs to ignore it.

Let players adapt/retain the challenge presented.

But enemies ARE unique. It's just that they are so muted that players don't realize that many of them do indeed have mechanics that can make them difficult that don't rely on scaling.

But the simple truth is, players PREFER bullet sponges over mechanics