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Doomsknight

Bounty leecher RISES : Miner, fisher, now K-driver & poop tracker lol

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:blush: Welp, I guess almost everybody shares some similar bounty experience here : 

While you're fighting hard / looking for supply caches like a mad man, your teammate(s) just leave u alone and keep grinding their own shiz because WHY NOT ? Just let those honest Tenno babes do the dirty work and I'm gonna get those bounty reward and standing for free anyway HA HA jokes on u ! I'm such a smart arse !

Since those leechers are acutally screwing around so I guess it's hard to screenshot and report them for being AFK (Technically they still got some kills)

And you can't fuxk them in the chat either otherwise they're gonna screenshot and report u for using "agressively offensive language" lol

So how to deal with these mess now? Well, either join the leechers and let the bounty fail, or just hit the "leave squad" button I guess :-/

What can DE do about it ?

Many have suggested that mining / fishing / animal tracking should be disabled in bounty (or at least in public bounty IMO)

As for K-drive, since it's unreasonable to disable a selling feature lol, just disallow ventkids standing gain in bounty (or at least in public bounty IMO)

 

(or simply make mining / fishing / conservation gears & K-drive destroyable by friendly fire so that next time I find somebody leeching I can release some chained explosion with my [Acid Shell] build Sobek baby 🐊  and BOOM ! All leecher's evil tools are gone HA HA :satisfied:

 

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12 minutes ago, Doomsknight said:

While you're fighting hard / looking for supply caches like a mad man,

My clan and me take turns. One does the bounties and the others do fishing, mingin, grinding. And no one ever has to complain about hard missions even at T5 with 5 Excavators

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37 minutes ago, Doomsknight said:

K-drive destroyable by friendly fire so that next time I find somebody leeching I can release some chained explosion with my [Acid Shell] build Sobek baby 🐊  and BOOM ! All leecher's evil tools are gone HA HA

A scoliac slam attack can slam teammates off the board, compared with wukongs iron vault augment you can slam them in a 40 meter radius. 😊

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  1. Location in minimap at some intervals are the proof you need, not mission results
  2. you can talk to them to force them into playing without insulting them, if you cannot speak without being offensive, then do not say a word please, otherwise you will and you should be reported for the offensive languange
  3. false reports (such as reporting for offensive languange when there is none) result in nothing, if for example you report a leecher when he isn't leeching, you may have your account suspended from support, meaning if your account has some sort of issue that support can help, you will be screwed if support can't be used at all

How to deal with them:

  1. ask players to do the bounties or a report will be made (do not flame the user)
  2. start screencaping at random intervals of their location on the map
  3. use common sense, if the user missed 1 stage and returned back into playing the game, don't be a #$&(% and report him for extensive leeching and afk behavior
  4. report user for leeching and if you get a stage to collect intel or excavation type missions, add a report for "acting agains the team" since the difficulty is going up despite less players being around, attatch the screenshots

Congratulations, the user will likely be warned, he will then quit warframe altogether (very likely), will insist in leeching behavior (placing the account in a dangerous situation) or will now engage in actual helpfull gameplay, don't brag to much, other leechers will appear eventually.

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2 hours ago, Rawbeard said:

play premade. they are not breaking any rules

The beauty of games like Warframe is a quick, uncomplicated access to missions. Going through hassle to form a squad for every mundane mission contradicts this idea. Furthermore, why should a normal player change his behaviour, when others are doing wrong? Where is foundation for this logic?

And one more line @Rawbeard: even if you do not leech, but look away from those actions, you therby support this behaviour and plant a seed for more toxicity. You are also a part of this problem.

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Don’t know how bad it is yet, but for PoE, if you go into it free roam, everyone is free to do whatever. But if you initiate a bounty BEFORE going into the Plains, you best believe any fisher, miner or leecher is going to get reported.

With fortuna, can you start up a bounty before going in? If so, I’d assume that bounties are priority and once you finish your bounty, if you choose to do another bounty, I’d also assume it becomes a priority. 

If you just walk into Valis and everyone is doing their own thing, don’t expect help if you start up a bounty... 

 

Again, I’m not sure exactly how Venus works but from what I see on the streams, it’s kinda like how I referenced it. 

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Very often some randoms join into a normal vallis run (not a bounty run) and starts a bounty. Screenshots of location and claiming they are leeching isn't going to work because it is hard to differentiate if they actually went into the vallis in a bounty run, or they just joined a normal run which turned into a bounty. In the first case, that is definitely leaching, but in the second case, it isn't.. They are not obliged to help you out on your bounty.

It would have been fine if  

1) bounties require a full "yes" response to start  (Currently, its possible to start a bounty even if  2/4...  voted no)

2) you cannot join a run that has started a bounty when you enter the vallis directly. (in fact, it should even be restricted if its in the voting stage)

3) bounty votes cannot be started by the same person within X minutes (Some people think normal players are obliged to help them clear their bounties so they spam votes when it is rejected)

Currently, these are not the cases. I would suggest these improvements to be implemented first before we deal with bounty leeching.

Note: I dislike people who leech, but more often than not, some randoms want to force the players inside the vallis to play a bounty that everyone but the newcomer is not interested in. It gets worse when they intentionally troll by starting the bounty then leaving the squad to annoy players inside. (We also don't have a report button for trolling behaviors)

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26 minutes ago, Ley_CrimsonRiver said:

Note: I dislike people who leech, but more often than not, some randoms want to force the players inside the vallis to play a bounty that everyone but the newcomer is not interested in. It gets worse when they intentionally troll by starting the bounty then leaving the squad to annoy players inside. (We also don't have a report button for trolling behaviors)

That's not what goes on generally IME, it is as OP describes. The above is the outlier.

In addition, affinity leechers who "do" the bounty despite being unable to contribute due to having all lvling gear on have been a problem forever and are in Fortuna. Was so pervasive in POE that I haven't done nearly as many Fortuna bounties despite liking bounties generally. DE should have done something about leeching generally long ago by gear and frame capping certain few higher game modes.

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Just now, Buttaface said:

That's not what goes on generally IME, it is as OP describes. The above is the outlier.

In addition, affinity leechers who "do" the bounty despite being unable to contribute due to having all lvling gear on have been a problem forever and are in Fortuna. Was so pervasive in POE that I haven't done nearly as many Fortuna bounties despite liking bounties generally. DE should have done something about leeching generally long ago by gear and frame capping certain few higher game modes.

there is an issue with gear and frame capping tho. A weapon with 4 forma and potato is pretty strong even when unranked. On the other hand, we can have maxed frames without potato and they go down every 3 seconds. Concave rating was a thing in the past, while it has many flaws (melee prowess having a rating of 50 is funny and stupid at the same time as it is a pretty useless mod yet given a considerably high rating), it would have been a reasonable choice.

My point is, theoretically your idea is pretty good, but practically, there isn't much DE can do at this point. Giving rivens a rating is barely do-able and giving every mod concave rating again is going to need a lot of work.

There are also new forum posts about leechers in the forum just about every other week, honor + dishonor system would have been a good solution in my opinion (it was suggested quite a few times.) The number of honors a player gets is stored in the database (players cannot see it themselves) and people with lower rating are matched with others with lower rating more often.

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14 hours ago, ShortCat said:

The beauty of games like Warframe is a quick, uncomplicated access to missions. Going through hassle to form a squad for every mundane mission contradicts this idea. Furthermore, why should a normal player change his behaviour, when others are doing wrong? Where is foundation for this logic?

And one more line @Rawbeard: even if you do not leech, but look away from those actions, you therby support this behaviour and plant a seed for more toxicity. You are also a part of this problem.

Couldn't be more well said.. Has some wisdom right there..

 

17 hours ago, Doomsknight said:

Many have suggested that mining / fishing / animal tracking should be disabled in bounty (or at least in public bounty IMO)

I agree this should be done from start till end of bounty...

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1 minute ago, Ley_CrimsonRiver said:

there is an issue with gear and frame capping tho. A weapon with 4 forma and potato is pretty strong even when unranked. On the other hand, we can have maxed frames without potato and they go down every 3 seconds. Concave rating was a thing in the past, while it has many flaws (melee prowess having a rating of 50 is funny and stupid at the same time as it is a pretty useless mod yet given a considerably high rating), it would have been a reasonable choice.

My point is, theoretically your idea is pretty good, but practically, there isn't much DE can do at this point. Giving rivens a rating is barely do-able and giving every mod concave rating again is going to need a lot of work.

There are also new forum posts about leechers in the forum just about every other week, honor + dishonor system would have been a good solution in my opinion (it was suggested quite a few times.) The number of honors a player gets is stored in the database (players cannot see it themselves) and people with lower rating are matched with others with lower rating more often.

Lvl capping gear and frames on certain game modes isn't a cure all, and I am well aware of the "but what if 5 forma in my gun" retort, but it would go a good ways towards a fix. At the very least it would signal players that certain game modes are designed for other than affinity leeching.

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2 minutes ago, WSPY said:

Couldn't be more well said.. Has some wisdom right there..

The "don't pug, use recruiting, use clan groups only" vapid retort is one of the most common fallacies posted on these forums by WKs and others defending bad play that should have been fixed long ago.

ALL coop shooter type games are judged as well-made or not by the ability to hop into a random game and have a high chance of having a fun match. WF is no longer one of these games due to several issues, one of which being the bounty leeching you describe. The reasonable conclusion is that DE wants to force people to carry bad play so that bad players who do things they really know are not good play keep playing and hopefully paying $$.

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18 hours ago, Doomsknight said:

BOOM ! All leecher's evil tools are gone HA HA :satisfied:

I  think that people who have no one to play with and are incapable of doing some missions solo ,so they run them on public and whine on forums if other random players don't play as they imagined they should is also some form of leeching.

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5 hours ago, RistN said:

I  think that people who have no one to play with and are incapable of doing some missions solo ,so they run them on public and whine on forums if other random players don't play as they imagined they should is also some form of leeching. 

Agreed.

I don't care if someone wants to leech because it doesn't affect me.

When I leave my settings on Public I have Zero Expectations on who will join -maybe no one at all will be matched even!- and I am assuming I will be carrying the mission by Myself for Myself.

If someone tags along and helps, OK, or not helps, OK no difference to me.

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With PoE, it's easy to spot the leechers within the first two bounty stages, as the behaviour is genrally pretty similar:

  1. Usually high MR (lower MRs can be seen trying - slowly - to catch up, but they're visibly moving towards the bounty location)
  2. The most common locations for someone fishing or mining in a bounty become familiar over a period of time

I don't count "affinity" leeches (underleveled or underequipped) as leeching unless they're not present and trying to do the bounty - I'll happily take an MR4 who tries and dies every 10s over a 24 who is fishing.  The bounty rewards are there, in my opinion, for participating, so regardless of whether I could solo this bounty myself, I'm not using my time to earn handouts for someone who has more than enough gameplay experience as evidenced by mastered weapons and frames to be able to do the same.

Personally, my approach is, if I spot suspicious behaviour is to continue and complete at least Stage 1 of the bounty. With the way PoE works, this means that if everyone but the leecher leaves after that point, no new randoms will be joined (suckered) into helping the leech. If their behahaviour continues and remains consistent with past experiences, I'll check them visually via a quick archwing pass, then alert the rest of the squad to the behaviour, and leave.

I used to get annoyed over the lost effort in doing this, but while you might end up leaving a series of bounties until you find some randoms who are actively working on the bounty, but overall I feel this works out faster than just ploughing on an ignoring the leechers.

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53 minutes ago, (PS4)Voidkraken said:

I'll check them visually via a quick archwing pass, then alert the rest of the squad to the behaviour, and leave.

Troll patrol XD

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Voidkraken said:

don't count "affinity" leeches (underleveled or underequipped) as leeching unless they're not present and trying to do the bounty - I'll happily take an MR4 who tries and dies every 10s over a 24 who is fishing. 

Now that it, the playet base of warframe is wide and different.

I had the pleasure of talking with a guy who expected atleast 10% damage dealt for everybody if they dont want to get reported for leeching, for others if you are not atleast mr8 while everybody is mr18+ you are a leech by default.

Its impossible to create countermeasure for leeching if we cant come up with a unified rule on what is exactly leeching.

 

I say the best way to fix the leech attitude (on players who do it and on those who dont) is to make all looting universal so instead of everybody running around for their own goal, we fight for a common one.

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15 hours ago, RistN said:

I  think that people who have no one to play with and are incapable of doing some missions solo ,so they run them on public and whine on forums if other random players don't play as they imagined they should is also some form of leeching.

9 hours ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

When I leave my settings on Public I have Zero Expectations on who will join -maybe no one at all will be matched even!- and I am assuming I will be carrying the mission by Myself for Myself.

Maybe, this game is not for you. People do not play multiplayer games for a stellar solo experience, and Warframe is a multiplayer game at its core.

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23 hours ago, (PS4)Gerbizzzle said:

Don’t know how bad it is yet, but for PoE, if you go into it free roam, everyone is free to do whatever. But if you initiate a bounty BEFORE going into the Plains, you best believe any fisher, miner or leecher is going to get reported.

With fortuna, can you start up a bounty before going in? If so, I’d assume that bounties are priority and once you finish your bounty, if you choose to do another bounty, I’d also assume it becomes a priority. 

If you just walk into Valis and everyone is doing their own thing, don’t expect help if you start up a bounty... 

 

Again, I’m not sure exactly how Venus works but from what I see on the streams, it’s kinda like how I referenced it. 

I was wondering about this actually, I went into POE yesterday, no bounty, for fish oil - forgot to turn on solo and people kept popping in, eventually (after people came and went from the group) everyone left just started fishing, mining, and helping each other out. That’s what I wanted, didn’t want to solo, but wasn’t there for bounties either. Seems like if you just go in without initiating a quest you should be good to do whatever and others can join if they want.

Maybe they could patch it so that you have to initaite a bounty start them, and if you just go in without it defaults to standard free Roam without all the disappointed Space Mom dialogue every couple of minutes for continually failing quests.

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DE should just make Fishing, Mining, Hunting and any other extra activity  disabled during active bounties.

I mean you gotta be in Range to get a floof tag.. So.. Would making being in range for a bounty work? To many people race to a mission and complete it before others could get in range.. So in range for bounty reward wouldn't work well.

Floof, Ore/Gem or Fish as a group reward would be sweet, but then people would go back to abandoning the mission and leave just you doing the mission (If you can)

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6 hours ago, Grimmstyler said:

DE should just make Fishing, Mining, Hunting and any other extra activity  disabled during active bounties.

I mean you gotta be in Range to get a floof tag.. So.. Would making being in range for a bounty work? To many people race to a mission and complete it before others could get in range.. So in range for bounty reward wouldn't work well.

Floof, Ore/Gem or Fish as a group reward would be sweet, but then people would go back to abandoning the mission and leave just you doing the mission (If you can)

they can solve in range for a bounty by adding a grace period to allow people to reach it before the stage starts.

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What DE should've done was have mining/fishing built into the hubs rather than in the areas where combat missions take place. Allows for a more friendly social environment.

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8 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

they can solve in range for a bounty by adding a grace period to allow people to reach it before the stage starts.

Then people would get frustrated in a publuc setting waiting for other people if they can do the mission themselves.. Then with that logic they can just Solo and defeat the purpose of online multiplayer gameplay.

Think about if your playing with a friend thru the game also.. Your friend might have to AFK, and you'll be like no problem I'll just do the mission. With the grace period your friend will get left behind in progress.

Then even if there was a proximity to receive a reward that would defeat the Global "Destroy X# Corpus in time limit".

What about game connection also? How the Host is bad,  you'll be on 1 side of the map, but actually your on the other side because the connection is bad..

But i agree with you. AFK shouldn't be rewarded.. But i guess really that's just the beast of playing Public. Would you go bare ass on a Public toilet seat? 😆

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5 hours ago, Grimmstyler said:

Then people would get frustrated in a publuc setting waiting for other people if they can do the mission themselves.. Then with that logic they can just Solo and defeat the purpose of online multiplayer gameplay.

Think about if your playing with a friend thru the game also.. Your friend might have to AFK, and you'll be like no problem I'll just do the mission. With the grace period your friend will get left behind in progress.

Then even if there was a proximity to receive a reward that would defeat the Global "Destroy X# Corpus in time limit".

What about game connection also? How the Host is bad,  you'll be on 1 side of the map, but actually your on the other side because the connection is bad..

But i agree with you. AFK shouldn't be rewarded.. But i guess really that's just the beast of playing Public. Would you go bare ass on a Public toilet seat? 😆

grace period is the best solution. we wait for people now in public matches. if i start a bounty and i load into PoE or orb valis as host i sit at the gate until group fills.

if my friend needed to go afk right quick for the bathroom id wait. if something came up all he needs to do is leave group.

having the grace period will also make it easier to spot AFK, leecher or people who should be participating in the bounty. ive had one person say to the group after a bounty "if you need to leave just leave group because me and my friend are gonna stay" i wish there were more players like that because they were polite and respectful and letting us know they wanted to stay.

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