A question about Plat for DE to answer please.

[Arcainyx]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Is there a time limit on when a charge back can be performed? Isn't it 120 days?...

120 days is an amount I saw in some posts when I did some online reading.  Unfortunately something else that came up in that reading is that the time limit varies depending on who the card issuer is.  Some cards don't have a time limit for performing chargebacks.

[KIREEK]

Any non allowed trade is reversed, sometimes the account was hijacked, the account was intentionally sold or the plat not obtained in a way that obeys the guidelines.

You don't lose the riven, the trade is simply reversed, however the riven will be now untradable, if it's a god riven (aka a riven suited to your gameplay and with the exact stats you want) you won't be losing anything, because it's yours forever)

For example, gaining plat from trading rivens and then selling the platinum (all platinum that is tradable is considered purchased) for cash in the black market.

When found (there are teams specifically for this) the platinum is removed from the game even if it was purchased at some point, this may affect users that aren't directly related with black market deals and those may be punished, the ban only happens when the balance is negative, meaning the player has a purchase but not enough plat to cover it, the only option is to ask for support to remove the purchased content if possible, this avoids exploits, like players using dummy accounts to keep the main account active while the dummy ones become banned one after another.

How do you know? You don't, sure someone can have a dubious name, gameplay time, give a bigger offer than normal, but you still have a big chance that the player is simply someone who had the account hijacked or sold at some point and that everything looks normal.

My sugestion is to let the plat stay for some time in your account, that should cover most issues.

As for trades that are undone after 2 years for example, those you can't predict, Support and players continue to deal with these situations, but we can't always get the players in time, support takes time to reply and players may be reporting an account where the offense happened months ago.

I for example do try to check the most common websites and report as many as i can if i have the time, but actions take time, it's not like i or support can prevent transactions instantly, they will happen and then support will reverse them.

There are also very preventable situations, like clan discords not treating these types of behavior even when several players can see accounts and plat being sold.

Edited January 31, 2019 by KIREEK

[IntheCoconut]

Sadly, this is why I don't have any faith in the market. It's nice to tell players "you can get anything because you can trade for plat!" without giving players complete confidence to do so. The only solution I've personally found is to trade with high MR players. Logically, it wouldn't make much sense for a MR16 to chargeback a plat purchase and get their hard-earned account banned, compared to an MR4 that is buying something with 500 plat and I'm instantly suspicious.

But even then, it isn't fool proof. There is always that chance that the MR16 sold something and unknowingly got bad plat in return, and then turns around and uses it to buy something from you, and then you in turn use it to buy something, and the corrupted plat travels around the universe like a bad game of hot potato.

Edited January 30, 2019 by IntheCoconut

[Hypernaut1]

Just don't get scammed by trying to sell a trash riven for 10k plat. Simple. 

I don't trust the integrity of some of these "I sold an awesome riven for 10k  and got banned" stories. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Hypernaut1

[Syphar86]

Anyone can get scammed, I sold a good Pyrana riven for around 700, and wanded it to be 900, but the buyer didn't have enough - how can I tell that the plat he gave me was legit?. And the problem is simple as that:

1. We cannot prevent scam in any possible way.

2. We cannot even check if a platinum is "suspicious".

3. We can get "shady plat" from a legitimate player that was scammed before himself.

Yet we are being punished for every of the above. Even if there was a way to 100% determine or even have a suspicion that buyer is illegitimate, then still you could not avoid getting plat from a legitimate buyer that was scammed before.

[--DSP--Jetstream]

Its just people selling platinum for real money, i know few sites where you can buy plat and sell your stuff for real money. Put something like 4 gold mods or trash rivens when you sell your plat to make the transaction look legit, or buy plat and prime access from third party.

Like usual its just people getting caught then make "im innocent!" post on forums like in any other game when people got banned.

[--DSP--Jetstream]

6 hours ago, Psianide73 said:

It would seem that many of the people who claim to have had plat removed after an innocent trade, were in fact buying plat from an rmt, and were trading trash rivens or mods to make the trade look legit.

Anyone who genuinely traded for dirty plat without knowing has allegedly never been punished.

This is just what I've read, don't shoot the messenger.

This, No more, No less.

[Hypernaut1]

12 minutes ago, --DSP--Jetstream said:

Its just people selling platinum for real money, i know few sites where you can buy plat and sell your stuff for real money. Put something like 4 gold mods or trash rivens when you sell your plat to make the transaction look legit, or buy plat and prime access from third party.

Like usual its just people getting caught then make "im innocent!" post on forums like in any other game when people got banned.

I've yet to see one of these post even attempt to post screenshots or even calling out the account they got the bad plat from. The lack of detail, and anger ONLY at DE, and not "scam account" makes me skeptical. 

[Syphar86]

You won't sir. Naming and shaming is forbidden by the forums policies.

[Hypernaut1]

3 minutes ago, Syphar86 said:

You won't sir. Naming and shaming is forbidden by the forums policies.

That's never stopped people with far more trivial complaints. I've seen people put up better arguments for far less, even with names blotted out. I've seen people post screen shot just because they playsy too much in a trade and felt scammed.

I'd expect people with a banned account to be a bit more passionate in blaming all parties involved. That's just my opinion though. I'm just stating why I'm skeptical. 

[spirit_of_76]

12 hours ago, peterc3 said:

There's only a single solution: Plat goes untradable. DE isn't going to eat the costs of chargebacked Plat

this would heart the game more than the killing of "chargeback" accounts.  now let's say they did a 3-day hold on all sales over 200 plat (this is more than the standard vaulted Prime set) where they do a trace on the plat if a problem is found then the trade is reversed and the problem plat is impounded while further investigation is done but that is a pain for everyone involved.  so they do the cheap and lazy thing that keeps them in the black.  

[(PSN)Backdoorman71]

Assuming this is only an issue on PC ...

Isn´t it?

[spirit_of_76]

I don't know but because of how plat on PC works is is likely a bigger problem.  

[Chappie]

4 hours ago, Syphar86 said:

@Chappie1975 if it is fair, that is highly unlikely. Probably it is something in between, but still about being fair, in a global matter, you have to consider a lot of different markets.

Long story short: in some parts of the world it is perfectly legal to sell platinum. It is against EULA, of course, but otherwise legal. Particularly EU. Well, here it is also perfectly legal to sell, buy, use Windows OEM system bought from a 3rd party on another PC, company even sued some users that did that to the court of laws. Lost of course, appealed, and so on - tl;dr Supreme Court finally said "legal". Just to give you a view on what is going on here... And now we have a problem.

How an user can tell, where the plat he is recieving for a riven came from? Quite tricky as it is, huh? Now we have for example largest auction site in the eastern part of the EU with a lot of offers to sell cheap platinum - and it is not some shady business, from an average user's point of view, as that company is even training the police here, closely cooperating with law enforcement. Now is it even trickier? A buyer not recieving platinum from a seller can even report him as a scammer to the police.

I know, and many other players, that this is still against EULA, and DE has moral right to ban such activities, that is why I bought all my platinum ever bought through their own store. But again: not every single player knows that, especially coming from here, and I can assure you, that EU are not some thirld-world countries, and that most companies coming from this part of the world don't ban for buying/selling their ingame currencies at the third party sites (because of that sort of regulations).

So of course DE has the right to do what they are doing right now, but it is not "fair" to be honest, because not only I as a seller of a riven have no means to check if a buyer bought his platinum from a legitimate source (which is DE) or got from trading - also the buyer might be fooled that he actually bought the platinum legally at a third party site ensured in his view by... the State itself. And that's EU, I don't even try to think how Internet laws are written in countries that are not parts of transatlantic trade agreements of any sort.

That is why I think that eliminating reversible transactions is in fact the only "fair" way to ensure that no platinum comes from shady sources, and players don't get negative balances after legitimately and fairly trading their rivens and so on.

I don't understand your post.  The RMT is not the problem....not at all.  This issue has #*!% all to do with the EULA; the issue is chargebacks.     What RMT does facilitate is exploitation of chargebacks which DIRECTLY hurts DE.   Read this very carefully, every time DE has a chargebacks against them it costs them REAL money.   This is not negotiable or debatable...PERIOD.    Second, an EULA is not a "moral document", it is a legally binding contract between you and DE and the responsibility of both parties.  

But let gets these 4 key points out:

1.  PREMIUM CURRENCY CANNOT BE FARMED

2.  PREMIUM CURRENCY CAN BE BOUGHT WITH REAL MONEY

3.  PREMIUM CURRENCY CAN BE TRADED

4.  CHARGEBACKS CAN OCCUR UP TO 90 DAYS AFTER THE TRANSACTION (longer in some cases).  DE CANNOT STOP THIS.  IT IS LEGAL LAW IN EVERY RECOGNIZED COUNTRY ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET.    

This means your comment of "reversible transactions" is moot.  

The only way for DE to put a hammer on this would be to make #3 no longer possible.  This would cause a backlash which makes this occasional post of "I did something foolish" or "i'm a a innocent victim" or "i'm not responsible for my actions" be like trying to remember the breath you took 15 hours ago and how it felt.

Regardless, people come to forums to *@##$ all the time.  Do a simple meta analysis on the title of the past 2000 threads here...yeah, you would think DE made the worlds worst game and makes EA look like a poster child of happiness.  

 

[Leyers_of_facade]

From what I have read (if I am wrong, feel free to correct me), players can end up with negative plat only if they spend the bad plat that they have obtained, so I am gonna propose a band-aid solution for now. (no, it doesn't solve the issue because too many parties are involved and no one here has suggested a solution that is perfect in theory and probable in practice)

1. FIFO for plat spend (first in first out), the plat you earned earlier will be spent first. (eg you gained 100p in jan 2018, 150p in feb 2018, 50p on mar 2018, upon spending 150p, you will be spending the 100 you earned in jan and 50 you earned in feb)

2. A quick search on google has confirmed that many chargeback periods are 120 days, in some occasions 180 days. Combined with suggestion 1, if player has spent all the plats that were earned over 120 days and start using the newly obtained plat, they will get a notification. (probably something that tells them, "the plat you are now spending is obtained less than 120 days ago, xxxxxx [enter bad plat problem explanation, too lazy to type that]") and if they use those plats to trade, the person who is getting these plat will also receive a similar notification "the plat you are obtaining has only been recently obtained from the buyer, [enter bad plat problem explanation])

 

The key here isn't really to solve the issues, but to raise awareness so as to hopefully reduce innocent players getting trapped, or at least they will be more aware of the risk of spending these newly obtained plat. 

Also, personal suggestion: always leave a good reserve of plat in hand and never at anytime spend / trade a sizable amount of the plat you own (personally I don't use or trade for more than 30% of the plat I have)

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

It seems like I only see this problem with the pc players. I don’t think I have ever seen this problem with the console players. What keeps it from happening on consoles

[Psianide73]

1 minute ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

It seems like I only see this problem with the pc players. I don’t think I have ever seen this problem with the console players. What keeps it from happening on consoles

I think Steam may be a contributing factor.

[MagPrime]

7 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

Then people would just keep playing without trading and they would wait for 75% discounts.
Does DE really want that? People stole 10k plat from them, but they will only get money for 2.5k. Would this be fair?

Now onto the topic of the thread:
If I'm quite honest, this whole thing is only a little bit DE's fault, because they made plat tradable.
It's moreso the community's fault, because people think that trading for 1k plat and more is a good idea.
If people didn't do this, and the highest trades would be 1k plat, then banning an innocent would still be bad. But they would have an easier time to get back into positive plat-numbers.

I'm not saying, that this situation is handled well.
I'm just saying that it is all DE's fault is pretty lazy.

Fair? 

Is it fair to require someone to pay hundreds of dollars to compensate for the illegal actions of someone else? 

Here's a hint; it's not. 

If the discount is an issue, disable it as well. 

Claiming it's not fair for DE to make their money on that plat is absurd as well, mainly because most players will simply abandon the account and go to another game or start a new account. 

I've spent hundreds of dollars on this account, if I got locked out of it from trading bad plat, I'm not likely to pay that ransom money, I'll find some other game, and DE is still out the funds for the bad plat.

Edited January 30, 2019 by MagPrime

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

Fair? 

Is it fair to require someone to pay hundreds of dollars to compensate for the illegal actions of someone else? 

Here's a hint; it's not. 

If the discount is an issue, disable it as well. 

Yeah, my ability to explain stuff isn't the best.
The issue are always the people that try to trick the system. And if your idea was implemented, people could abuse this system.

DE should just remove plat from trades. But this would hurt their plat-sales, so this won't happen.
And let's be real, the current methode seems to work for DE. If it would "ruin" their game, they would have changed it already.
 

[Ryim_Drykeon]

DE can tell between bought plat and "gifted" plat, ie, the plat won on Twitch. The gifted plat can NOT be used in trades, or to buy someone else a gift. You have to use bought plat (yes, plat gained via trading is considered "bought" in this instance) for your own personal use.

Since DE can make this distinction, simply mark all plat purchased as non-tradable until verified. ie, the time limit on charge backs for that credit company has passed. This way, players buying plat for their own use (ie to buy slots, frames, etc) can do so immediately, but could not trade that plat to others until the time limit has passed.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Ryim_Drykeon

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

It seems like I only see this problem with the pc players. I don’t think I have ever seen this problem with the console players. What keeps it from happening on consoles

Sony and Microsoft basically. As all platinum purchases are made through stores owned by Sony/Microsoft there are different standards and consequences for issuing a charge back against them, such as having your entire account suspended.

[spirit_of_76]

1 hour ago, Chappie1975 said:

The only way for DE to put a hammer on this would be to make #3 no longer possible.  This would cause a backlash which makes this occasional post of "I did something foolish" or "i'm a a innocent victim" or "i'm not responsible for my actions" be like trying to remember the breath you took 15 hours ago and how it felt.

there is another method you can't trade fresh plat until the end of the charge-back date. but how fun will that be.  overall I agree with your statement no longer being able to trade plat would be worse for the game than the current problem. 

[peterc3]

2 hours ago, spirit_of_76 said:

this would heart the game more than the killing of "chargeback" accounts.  now let's say they did a 3-day hold on all sales over 200 plat (this is more than the standard vaulted Prime set) where they do a trace on the plat if a problem is found then the trade is reversed and the problem plat is impounded while further investigation is done but that is a pain for everyone involved.  so they do the cheap and lazy thing that keeps them in the black.  

Which is why they do what they do and not scuttle Plat trading. 3 day holds would do literally nothing. Credit card companies allow for upwards of 6 months of a window to issue a chargeback.

Lazy is pretending this is a problem that DE hasn't thought of.

[Klypto]

I don't see any real solutions here that would work.  They already have full transaction history and reverse the trades of the ones that they can and lock the traded items to the account (mostly rivens).

Allowing accounts to keep running while in the negative just leads to ablative accounts being used to do a one time "create" and spend plat from nothing which is a financial loophole.

Separating the plat types would be meaningless, as all "safe" plat would be consumed almost immediately (prioritizing safe plat for any purchase made) to make it a sane risk for DE.  You'd only ever see it streaming from plat hoarders (people with over 10,000 plat) or people who have plat but haven't played in a while.  There's also what others mentioned with no standard time limit on chargebacks so "safe" would be completely arbitrary.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Klypto

[ShardYT]

16 hours ago, peterc3 said:

3 out of how many people dealing in Plat? Are you aware of how many people play the game?

There's only a single solution: Plat goes untradable. DE isn't going to eat the costs of chargebacked Plat.

Wow Seriously tho ? DE Cant make a good system to detect illegal plat in his game  so he Charges the Average User for What ? His Own Fault ?

I can't see how can someone defend such a system,.