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(Update 24.4.0) General Feedback Megathread


[DE]Danielle
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CANNOT leave Orb Vallis as host now. Leave squad, try to get in elevator, people joining my instance SOO FAST that the elevator extraction never even starts. People are LITERALLY back in my instance immediately when I "Leave Squad"..... Soo... Now I'm trapped in an elevator that won't move while people constantly spam join me and I can't get my toroids out of the orb....

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First impressions of the quick melee change: It's going to be very difficult to deal with. I happened to have Telos Boltace on my kit when I logged in and I went out in Orb Vallis. Seamlessly going into combos ruins the weapon's use case 90+% of the time for me. I haven't tried my whips yet(my favorite weapon), but being pulled into the combos will make those a terror as well when I just want to bust some containers or something. To clarify, I genuinely use Secura Lecta, not 'spin to win' or anything.

Without adjustment, I'll be shelving my favorite weapons and looking for something that has a non-movement-interruptive base combo to use instead, if such a weapon stance exists. Could it be that I am the only one who actually liked the functional difference between 'quick' melee and going into the stance? I say that with skepticism, but I've been in the desperate minority before.

I frequently used ground slam as part of movement during combat. The new system seems to home in on enemies or something I don't know how to control yet, if it can be controlled. It feels like a loss of character control right now, which is something crucial to Warframe. Maybe it will get better with use? At first I thought it was homing in, then I thought it was just pushing me forward at an angle each time, then I went back to thinking it was homing when it pulled me sideways the last time I tried before leaving Fortuna to post here.

Edited by Vomitous
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3 hours ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Some combos may have changed, but there are plenty that still require you to hit block in order to pull off the chain. Except it's not block, now. It's Aim. So during the middle of your melee combo, you're now required to have to pull out your gun just to 'aim' to do that chain.

 

This is especially frustrating if you want to make use of the option to melee with LMB. Tapping RMB will swap your equipped weapon back to your gun, which means LMB no longer swings your melee anymore. This means to do a basic LMB, LMB+RMB, LMB beginning of a combo chain, you have to LMB, RMB+E (to flip your melee back to being primary), LMB. Which is supremely awkward, and it really should not be the case that an option designed to cater to players who prefer melee as their primary makes it more clunky to do combo.

 

And that's not even getting into the zooming effect mid combo that can, depending on the default zoom magnification of the weapon, seriously disorient or even make you sick. 

 

Like, I get it. I get why - because blocking no longer exists. But in an update that touts the word 'Flow,' this is the exact opposite. It's janky and unintuitive. Please have someone go through the combos and replace RMB requirements with either a straight up directional input or a Pause, please.

 

17 minutes ago, Vomitous said:

First impressions of the quick melee change: It's going to be very difficult to deal with. I happened to have Telos Boltace on my kit when I logged in and I went out in Orb Vallis. Seamlessly going into combos ruins the weapon's use case 90+% of the time for me. I haven't tried my whips yet(my favorite weapon), but being pulled into the combos will make those a terror as well when I just want to bust some containers or something.

Without adjustment, I'll be shelving my favorite weapons and looking for something that has a non-movement-interruptive base combo to use instead, if such a weapon stance exists. Could it be that I am the only one who actually liked the functional difference between 'quick' melee and going into the stance? I say that with skepticism, but I've been in the desperate minority before.

I frequently used ground slam as part of movement during combat. The new system seems to home in on enemies or something I don't know how to control yet, if it can be controlled. It feels like a loss of character control right now, which is something crucial to Warframe. Maybe it will get better with use? At first I thought it was homing in, then I thought it was just pushing me forward at an angle each time, then I went back to thinking it was homing when it pulled me sideways the last time I tried before leaving Fortuna to post here.

I fully agree. This new system feels three times more awkward and the original method was ironically the more intuitive. Restoring aim gliding, blocking, and the ability to quick melee while melee is holstered will put the flow back in. If we want the system to feel quicker, then make the effects of weapon swap take immediate effect with three keys to each tap a single time and change between primary, secondary, and melee. This makes far more sense, and I don't get why this sort of quick-toggle (which was usable in Team Fortress 2) isn't the solution being used here.

Edited by Maxim_M_Payne
grammar
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1 hour ago, Ofeban said:

Melee is ruined if I cannot both melee attack and shoot on mouse 1.

Melee will take a huge back seat because there is no optimal keybinding for it anymore. Angled slam attacks and the odd click to cover your flank will be all that remains.

1500 hour player, 90% of that time melee only. Most of my resources from that time spent given to my melee arsenal. My melee weapons are now gimmicks, side-kicks. Now I have to turn around and focus on guns? Unless I don't want to bind primary fire on left click? Which will come out anyways every time I aimglide during movement?

Pretty sure I'm done. Was a good run but you gimped my entire setup and integrally changed the way the game is played for the worse.

While I would wait to see if they listen to our feedback first before acting as drastically as to quit forever; I am equally frustrated as a primarily melee player with the clunkiness of this "improved" system and how it reduces melee to a side-show irrelevance. Give the old three-way division of weapons back. Let us use melee all by itself again, for the love of god and kindly, pretty please, DE.

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If you go with melee only and equip no ranged weapons, aim-gliding looks goofy as hell now. You just pop a squat in mid-air and float around like that. Not elegant at all.

Bringing back the mid-air block aim just to fix that issue would probably be a nice idea, plus it also makes blocking while gliding actually possible.

Having this even with guns equipped would actually be a nice defensive boost too. By all means have us swap back to gun aim-gliding if it's equipped or we shoot, but if we go into the air with a melee weapon out, let us block aim-glide.

Edited by KokoroWish
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1. Melee momentum was not fixed. I'd like to stop getting hit out of heavy sword combos, thanks. That was the one thing I was actually expecting to be done right here.

2. Why is near-instant swap functionality (old quick melee excluded because it wasn't a fully committed swap) being implemented between guns and melee specifically for the sake of combat flow yet I -

a) cannot swap between a gun and a tiny pistol with the same speed and dexterity. Holstering speed mods are still a thing and it's simply rude at this point. Make weapon swapping one fast, fluid motion between all weapon types and this new system becomes obsolete instantly.

b) have to lose the ability to customize my own keybinds for this selective functionality

c) have to interrupt forward movement to even swap to my melee

d) lost the ability to glide while keeping melee equipped because active blocking was removed and technically nerfed in effect while auto block is doing anything relevant. I now must swap to my gun to aim and then awkwardly attack to get melee out while holding the glide button.

e) lost the ability to simply hold to keep channeling active; I have to now toggle it on top of having to switch what button it was attached to. Yes I know using LMB while in melee to use channeling isn't particularly common, but neither is having to reorganize my keybindings because of a single update.

3. Despite all the work that surely went into this, it still ends up feeling rushed and inconvenient to those of us who've done any major tweaking to our setups. In the future large mechanical changes in store need to be more than just demoed in a video to the community with vague explanations and reassurances. I'm sure it would take a light perusing of the forums to find a host of posts dissenting these changes. Can we learn from this going forward? Appreciating feedback is an empty sentiment when concerns were voiced back when some of these changes were first announced.

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16 minutes ago, Violets_are_Blue said:

This Update has completely crushed my Love for this game. Yesterday my boyfriend and I were none the wiser about this update. And since its release, he has continuously gotten more frustrated and completely bummed about it. Us both being big Melee people, it's ruined our day, and our week. And I think I'd be more forgiving if it wasn't giving him a headache and making him depressed. This is pretty much the only game we like playing together and, Now I wonder if we ever will again? 

As for the changes made, not being able to unsheathe our weapons and get the cool animations that we Payed for, was the snowball that started to roll down the slope. My Nikana is now pointless to have on my back without that awesome animation. His Silvia is now pointless for him, it was cool to have a shield to block with. But now blocking is automatic... and the weapon he invested the most into lost its value. I've been playing with the same controls for years, and now I have to relearn how to play the game, so that I stop trying to switch to my Melee and instead, switch to my pistol. The new Effects for the weapons are....pretty? But, not for the Nikana Conclave skin I use. A lot of the Effects don't work with certain weapon skins. About 80% of our builds for Melee were for the simple quick tap melee. We didn't even pay much attention to what Stance we had. Now we're forced to. Any polearm I use now, I have to wait a short second while I'm swinging so my Warframe can stop moving forward because the combo requires her to slow down. So all my run and spam slash builds are also rendered useless. It's all very, annoying and frustrating, and shouldn't feel like a very big deal on the surface. But this is what we love to play, and Melee was a big part of what we loved. He's asleep as I'm typing this, I think my poor guy was crying. It really hurts, I've never seen him so, defeated before. 

We'd love to come back for some option to turn off these features, sure maybe they're...slower? But it's what we and a lot of other people preferred. Looking on the outside, I don't know anyone who plays this game, in my clan and as my friend, who asked for, or wanted this. And I suppose it is "convenient" to have our weapons ready instantly, instead of waiting, less than a second to switch. But giving up that 0.8 seconds to switch, our Warframe's loose personality, and, coolness. Yes, maybe from a lore standpoint, such fast reflexes make sense? But in game, thousands of people have spent there precious platinum on the sheaths, because they look cool, and now, half the functionality of every single one, of these animations, has been cut. In favor, of having switching weapons not taking so much time. Isn't that, the whole point? The trade off for having an extra weapon or two. You have more firepower, but you have to take a few moments to switch to it. 

In conclusion, the snowball became the avalanche that killed all our fun. I love this game and have spent almost 2000 hours into it. It's where I met my love and have kept enjoying, update after update. I had nothing good to say in this post. Actually this is the very first feedback post I've made. But I hope you all, including developers, might read this. I have, no idea why this Update was made possible, and I can't understand why people would defend it, even for all it adds, it takes away a lot as well. For me, making a great game, into just a good one.

My apologies, this is less constructional context and more of me ranting. But I'm upset, because the person I love is in pain, and something that we both cared about deeply was taken and given an Update that has hit all the wrong places for us, and perhaps ruined our view of our favorite video game. 

if it makes you feel any better, I totally feel what your boyfriend is feeling. I also main the Nakata, and I own a Silvia in real life. my melee weapons have no purpose in life, I shall go into a warframe coma, I don't think it's all negative but your out right current experience as a patron. I feel the same way and share both you and yours pain. 

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Actually, can I please have the ability to unbind an action from a button? I don't use Melee Channel at all, even before the switch and unbinding it would not injure my play style in the slightest as it stands. It being prioritised over other binds is really killing my ability to play.

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Melee combat in Warframe used to be about rapid positioning to leap from enemy to enemy. Aimgliding/blocking is absolutely essential to cancel animations like roll and bullet jump in order to travel correct distances.

Now every time I right click to control my character mid-air, I switch to my primary gun and out of melee. I can hit my keybind for melee mode again, but this completely breaks flow and is overly awkward.

As a melee-centric player, now I feel forced to use guns 99% of the time, because I cannot move fluidly with my melee weapon if aimgliding is essential for efficient movement.

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U must bring EQUIP melee back. Very akward to take advance for example blocking having to go through the the melee animation .... it just doesn't feel right and looks stupid. Either remove the blocking or give a keybind to equip melee.

Edited by Bughead
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Making void dash not affect enemies when it causes no movement is hugely detrimental to operator gameplay. Why should we be forced to jump all around if we want to make use of the utility/crowd control abilities that void dash can provide?

I don't see why it's necessary when you already put a cooldown on Magus Revert, which kills the combination that you didn't want to be used against Eidolons. If you're determined to go through with this, then I'll ask this instead: Why does a dash which doesn't make me move, doesn't affect enemies, pretty much doesn't do anything, still eats my energy?

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Well a small feedback concerning the download, I'm from Switzerland and actually I'm download the update at 200KB/s - 1MB/s max, but my connexion got max speed of 6MB/s. It was also similar during the very start of Fortuna Launch but it got fixed within the first hour of the update for fortuna.

I'll probably come back to the thread once I'll have some feedback to give on the update itself after I've finished that slow download.

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  • Gara's Mass Vitrify seems to no longer refresh Splinter Storm (This appears to be a UI issue)
  • Trying to capture a Base in the Orb Vallis now spawn a frankly ridiculous number of enemies almost instantly (Have the increased spawns due to the event spilled over into base capturing?)

I founds a fracture, have zero idea where to find a coolant raknoid so I guessed it might be a random spawn, tried to take over a base to get some troops spawning and got instantly bombarded my more enemies than I've ever seen solo on the Vallis.

But no coolant Raknoids, so now I guess I trawl the forums until someone else has randomly come across them and tells us what you mean.

Edited by SilentMobius
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     Simulacrum seems to be boosting the stats of equipment. Some fellow tenno found this before i did, they had things like x2 the magazine, the fire rate, the critical chance even. I join them and swing my Tatsu around and found it unbelievably faster than what a +50% to attack speed should give. It felt more along the lines of +100%, which is also x2 like these tenno shared with me. Even threw 6-7 Talons in one throw when it's supposed to be 2-3 per throw. Might be an arsenal related bug, or simulacrum, can't seem to figure it out clearly.
    
     Tarock throwing knife skin has a few bugs. One keeps the right hand's weapon default energy, for at least the Talons. Another makes Fusilai have both the glass blades without handles and the tarock skin combined, as well as making the tarock skin dissapear if the knives are in mid-flight. Holstering of Despair with Tarock equipped sinks the holster into many warframe thighs (not as much for Excalibur). Hikou Prime shows it being held, but once thrown the skin doesn't appear on flying or landed knives.

Spoiler

Warframe8765.jpg?width=400&height=225Hikou Prime thrown, no skin upon flight and landing, but skin visible in hands.

Spoiler

Warframe8769.jpg

Fusilai blades are combined with the Tarock skin, no handles on them, and when you get really close the Tarock skin vanishes. Doesn't seem to be the case if they're on the ground, though. Maybe.

     The assigning of Channeling as a button/key binding is iffy, but you're all aware about that. It's like picking a very crazy lock that is both loose and tight, i can sometimes assign Channeling to very weird things like Place Marker / Captura. Took a while to reassign Secondary Fire, thought my night was over T__T

     Tatsu two-handed nikana seems to have some offset finishers. Particularly the ground finisher: it stabs very far to the left of the grounded target, missing entirely. It might be by design, not sure, but the range of the blade feels really short as well, particularly for slide and aimglide attacks. Very nice to see the long jump with wall attacks though, hope that's something to look forward to in the future of movement ^__^

     Found a mining spot that was waaaaaayyyyy underneath the coolant inside a cave. I barely managed to tickle it with my mining laser, but i was almost completely under the coolant XD

Spoiler

Warframe8756.jpg

 

Edited by Phailberry
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1 hour ago, KokoroWish said:

If you go with melee only and equip no ranged weapons, aim-gliding looks goofy as hell now. You just pop a squat in mid-air and float around like that. Not elegant at all.

Bringing back the mid-air block aim just to fix that issue would probably be a nice idea, plus it also makes blocking while gliding actually possible.

Having this even with guns equipped would actually be a nice defensive boost too. By all means have us swap back to gun aim-gliding if it's equipped or we shoot, but if we go into the air with a melee weapon out, let us block aim-glide.

I agree with you, I feel goofy now trying to aim-glide with melee-only because I just look ridiculous.

I like this new system in terms of swap-time improvements, but giving us an option to toggle both LMB and RMB as well would be ideal imo. Best of both worlds.

Edited by EquinoxPrime
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The new aimable slam is awesome and auto switching is cool, just need to get used to it. However it has introduced some wonky interactions, especially if you have exodia contagion on your zaw which was just changed as well.

If you're jumping up to do a melee slam and aim glide to better pick your target, having a sniper or other high zoom rifle equipped is awful as you're now examining the ground for bacteria and specs of dirt instead of being able to see the enemies to aim towards them effectively.

So you say switch to your pistol which probably has less zoom. Well, my riven on my preferred pistol has +zoom on it. I'm not particularly fond of having the zoom on it, but I like the other stats  enough to have not rolled it further. So my pistol has me examining specs on the floor as well if I aim glide when I want to slam.

I've been using exodia contagion on my zaw which lets you throw it when you've double jumped. It does self damage and I have killed myself several times with it, but that was a risk I was dealing with and willing to take. The update made it so you can only throw when aim gliding. I'm not sure if it was done to nerf it a bit so you can't throw it quite as quickly, or to help people not kill themselves. But now of course if you aim glide so you can throw it, then might also get a zoom that you had a choice about before if you happen to have guns with zoom due to preference or mission utility or conditions.

I'm not sure what might be done to remedy the situation while keeping the new battle flow at the moment.

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So, melee. I think the changes are generally for the better, but I have a few issues.

The first is channeling – it shouldn't be a toggle. It is too easy to forget about or activate by accident. And it is not visible enough to actually see if it is on or not. I think the previous version was better – hold to activate. I know channeling is going to change anyway, but for now I'd prefer the old system.

I'm also not sure how I feel about the removal of manual blocking. It takes away interactivity from melee weapons. What is uncomfortable for me is the lack of melee aim glide (that didn't zoom in the camera). I also liked the idea of shorter dodges while blocking that was previewed last year. What @Ascarith wrote also seems like an annoying problem.

If I had to choose between manual and automatic blocking, I'd choose manual, even if it meant an additional keybind. But here's an idea – when new "devil trigger" channeling gets implemented, we can have block on alt fire (that would essentially work like old blocking) and channeling would be activated by holding weapon swap. Or by pressing reload button with melee equipped.

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Immediate feedback on Melee 2.9997-whatever.

  1. I can't block while Aim-gliding
    1. To change this change the behavior of Aim. Instead of switching back to Gun-Weapon, this could become a Block/Glide behavior.
      1. Making Right-Mouse/Aim into a Block/Glide when melee is out, this would avoid the currently awkward position of sometimes flubbing a one of the old Blocking Combos.
    2. I am not sold on Auto-Blocking. This gets awkward for many reasons. I would often use Melee Blocking to Aim-glide with unobstructed Field of View, unlike the narrower view of most Guns. Same with Wall Latching.
  2. No more "Quick Melee"
    1. Bug: Quick Melee remains with Archgun weapon equipped.
    2. Many weapons don't have a nice simple "slash" on their Mod Combos.
      1. Maybe this will eventually be resolved in a more open form Melee system, but we don't have access to that yet.
    3. I do not at the moment see how to resolve the two issues, of having combo access and having the Non-Combo basic slashes. I will be giving this some thought and will see about adding a comment directly to this effect later.
  3. Melee Channel should not Consume Energy while Blocking.
    1. With Auto-Blocking we should not be punished for Toggle Channel.
    2. I realize this an interim stage to the "Combo Trigger" system, or whatever you call it internally, but in this current implementation it feels like fiddly toggle issue to keep track of, especially since Blocking isn't Manual anymore.
    3. If 1-1-1 was done, giving us back Manual Block on Right-Mouse/Aim this would not be an issue.
      1. Seriously can we get Manual Block back on that Right-Mouse/Aim?
  4. No Flashy weapon holstering, animations dropped.
    1. Since we don't "Equip" melee weapons anymore we don't have any of the fancy upholstering animations. Please return the older "Hold Equip weapon to equip Melee Weapon" functionality, where you could HOLD down the normal swap weapon key. Even if you increase the delay to 1.5 or 1.75 hold to avoid accidental Melee equips (less of an issue since you can just quick shoot).
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3 hours ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

Verdict: Melee 3.0 Still Needs Work, But I Believe In You All And I Swear We All Value You Guys As A Game Team Very, VERY Much (Slightly Too Long Of Title, Apologies)

A major and important disclaimer: You've all always been an excellent team of developers, and so far all of you at DE have listened to feedback from players on nearly all issues, and I certainly hope that you continue to set an example in an age of Fallout 76s and Metal Gear Survives. Few American companies give one hoot about anything more than the player's money, but you as a Canadian studio have set a standard that gives hope some businesses actually listen to their consumer. This is still one of the most lovingly crafted F2P games I've ever downloaded, and in both lore and aesthetics Warframe constitutes art.

 

CONS OF THE NEW MELEE:

  • I can no longer equip melee exclusively; which was exactly the gameplay experience that made me feel like I was in control of an awesome Dark Souls boss when using Valkyr or Excalibur to kill whole armies. The delightfully cathartic feeling of simply mauling things in the hundreds and not needing a ranged option unless I chose to equip one is gone. Please add a "legacy" melee toggle like you did after changing Archwing's steering controls; or make melee usable by its lonesome again. I don't like being forced to use my melee as a supplement to my guns instead of their equally powerful potential substitute.
  • Warframe's melee combat was so satisfying to me, back when I first joined in 2014, that it convinced me to suspend disbelief in the basic backstory of the game's world (well, planets, technically). The option to use exclusively high-tech sci-fi swords if I chose to, and forgo my pistol and rifle entirely, truly sold me on the idea that I was a "space ninja"; and not just yet another boring, heavily armored space marine with a face like a bicep. Sorry "Doomguy", but you and your ilk are done to death. The forced integration of melee to a side function, with shooting now taking precedence; forces me into that same overdone cliche; when Warframe's avoidance of it as a game was exactly what first attracted me to the gameplay and made me fall in love with using Valkyr and Excalibur.
  • Blocking is now passive and automatic, which I never wanted and makes me feel like a toddler being led along by their mother. This is exactly the sort of hand-holding, automatic-context programming that makes me feel less powerful. Reducing the truly awesome experience of deflecting bullets with a sword the size of a surfboard (by my own conscious choice) into an observed event (that my frame does without my input) feels like a removal of me from the game's world; and adds to the impression of no longer having any real control. My choice to block is gone, just as much as the choice to use only my melee weapons, which I would very much like to be a possible gameplay style again.
  • I find the apparent assumption by the development and programming teams that all players had the same mindset toward melee combat as Atterax quick attack spammers to be highly frustrating. I have always more than happily varied my attacks and gleefully used every combo available in a stance mod; with the notable exception of Crossing Snakes, which is objectively clumsy and awkward to use no matter who you are. Again, the feeling of using a sword, hammer, axe, rapier, staff, etc. without ranged weapons, and then chaining together intricate theatrics of gory death with extremely pretty and well-done animations was what made "old" melee fun; and added to the feeling of martial arts in a sci-fi setting. Now my stances have become irrelevant, since melee has been changed into a side thought to spraying ammo out; just like any other boring shooter. Warframe has far, far too intriguing of a setting and imaginative of elements to simply railroad players into the role of another dull "near-future" military grunt.
  • Quick melee shouldn't be removed, and its absence makes looting and spy vaults much more awkward. Instead of a single precise swipe with my holstered Dual Raza when I find Rare Grineer Storage container near Vault C in the Kappa node of Sedna, I now run the risk of doing the entire Winding Claws or Dancing Hunter combos. This resulted in the LOVELY experience of accidentally hitting the explosive barrels in the same room and alerting all three Regulators in the vault. Goodbye, flawless spy run.

PROS OF THE NEW MELEE (YOU STILL DID PLENTY OF VERY GOOD THINGS WITH THIS UPDATE, WE ALL LOVE YOU DEVS; BUT, LIKE IN A PLATONIC AND WHOLESOME WAY, NOT A CREEPY ONE):

  • Slam attacks now also work at a diagonal angle, and not just when aiming straight down. This is very definitely a good change, and helps close the gap to get back to foes sent careening by non-lethal explosions or a prior slam attack with the same melee weapon. This is extra helpful on Paracesis and Gram Prime, which send foes flying in an 8-meter ring when you slam attack with them.
  • Melee sound effects are now much better than the first sound retouching for melee, especially slam attacks.I know longer have to wonder, baffled, why a slab of steel like the Paracesis is making a dainty whip-crack noise like a rapier instead of a leaden thud. The issue has been resolved, and melee weapons are now making noises appropriate to their shape and mass.
  • Channeling isn't required anymore to block effectively, which is nice. Blocking is no longer a conscious decision by the player and occurs automatically, as though I couldn't manage it alone; which is much less nice. But channeling is no longer mandatory to block. My complaint is just that I would like to block of my own personal choice again.
  • We finally have O-Dachi style weapons with the long-delayed introduction of Revenant's signature heavy curved sword. It looks awesomely bio-mechanical, like all Sentient faction items, and it's always nice to have yet another weapon category for the gameplay and fashion objects they bring.
  • Stealth attacks no longer make that revolting SPLRRRCHRKGK noise like before. Let me tell you, devs, there was nothing more disgusting or disconcerting than smashing a man into paste with Fragor Prime but hearing a wet slopping as though I had slit his throat instead. The new noise, though still fleshy sounding, is not half as gross.

More people need to upvote this or something and spread it around, cuz it summarizes my gripes with the new update perfectly. Hopefully DE sees this and actually bloody does something and fixes these issues.

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