Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[zombiedeadhead]

People are complaining about finding Ayatans? What the hell, The only reason they can't find them is because they speed rush through everything. Ayatans are not 'too rng', there is no rng at all. Just look.

[rastaban75]

I've mentioned some of these in the announcement topic, but I'll do it here as well since it's for feedback purposes:

* Ayatan treasures: I don't understand the purpose of this challenge and what it's supposed to show from a gameplay perspective. Assuming you have no sculptures left, you need to do the most efficient mission for them i.e. Arbitrations (which are locked for thepeople who haven't cleared the star chart), spend quite some time in there to get 5 of them and then spend several stars to fill them, assuming you have amber ones where applicable. I really don't see the point here. I am a hoarder of Ayatans so I didn't have any problem completing the challenge, but is this really a challenge? Fill some treasures which by all means and before Nightwave, you had a motivation to convert to endo as soon as possible?

* Forcing "friendships" and clan memberships is pointless. I don't have in-game friends or other clan members. Now I'm forced to create fake "friendships" in order to complete a challenge i.e. send a friend request to someone who is not a friend of mine and then do a mission with someone who is not a friend of mine. Or, you know, I could complete a mission with some random people (who are also not friends of mine) - so what's the real difference? I get the impression of DE telling players "this is how we want you to play the game" for no reason of substance.

* Sanctuary Onslaught: Please, do make the challenge requirement coincide with the rotation reward. You could ask for 4 or 6 or 8 waves (the latter being "elite weekly") so that players are motivated to get the SO rewards as well. With 3 waves, people that want to play the actual mission are punished with getting random players whose only interest is getting the Nightwave challenge done. Also, 3 waves is pretty easy anyway.

* 10 Syndicate missions: I do those missions relatively often, but the challenge adds a factor of rushing that should not be there. What this challenge does is getting people who want to rush through them potentially play with others that want to patiently look for syndicate medallions. These are contradicting goals.

* 8 Plains of Eidolon bounties: way too grindy for no real reason. The motivation to actually do those missions for the challenge means that any reasonable player will choose the Tier 1 Konzu bounties which are very easy and very unrewarding. This seems like a case where (frankly obsolete) content is being forced into the player base. This is a symptom of the whole system of course, where players will seek the path of least resistance (or least time) to complete something. For example, 3 assassinations for me meant rushing 3 times solo on the poor Sarge while planting 3 shots on his head and then moving on. This doesn't seem to me like an idea the coincides with "fun"

* One-hour long challenges. OK, I just need to remember to unplug the phone on these. I guess.

In a more general sense, the new system rubs me in the wrong kind of way in many respects. If I want to pin this down I'd say that it bothers the obsessive-compulsive part in me and thus pushes me to do things that I don't really find fun for the sake of completion. Or just things that I have already repeated so many times in this game that I don't feel like doing anymore. I have to go out of my way too many times to complete these challenges, they are not a part of a usual cycle of gameplay. I've noticed I played more Warframe in the last week, which is not a bad thing by itself, but it's mostly a sort of repetition that's doesn't feel right. The time-limitation imposed by these 10-weeks or so that this event will last goes against the logic of the vast bulk of the rest of the game which can be enjoyed at my leisure. Sure, I know I don't have to do all of it (people claim around ~60% is enough) but the very fact that a limitation exists is creating a pressure which I find unnecessary.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

1 minute ago, zombiedeadhead said:

People are complaining about finding Ayatans? What the hell, The only reason they can't find them is because they speed rush through everything. Ayatans are not 'too rng', there is no rng at all. Just look.

i agree

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

6 minutes ago, rastaban75 said:

I've mentioned some of these in the announcement topic, but I'll do it here as well since it's for feedback purposes:

* 10 Syndicate missions: I do those missions relatively often, but the challenge adds a factor of rushing that should not be there. What this challenge does is getting people who want to rush through them potentially play with others that want to patiently look for syndicate medallions. These are contradicting goals.

 

y not just make it "find 24 syndicate medallions"? ect

Edited March 5, 2019 by (PS4)Spider_Enigma

[Mr.Fluffins]

Umm, please enlighten me, how you and your team prepare for the following:

1) Nekros DCing from the game at 40 minute mark.

2) Enemy spawns breaking, preventing you from getting any life support.

3) You yourself DCing at 40 minute mark.

4) "Host migration failed."

Now you might say that bugs and network issues can happen at any time in any game, so it's not fair to bring them up... but it is here, since 1 hour long FORCED missions make all these issues much more likely to happen, and many times more frustrating than if encountered during "normal" gameplay, that doesn't require you to stay this long in a mission.

I did a solo 1 hour index run to get prodman poster, and during the last 10 minutes of the mission, the only thoughts in my head were: "internet please don't crash"  and "game please don't break."

[Renginus]

new players cant complete this chalenge they havent kuva fortress revealed and for them its hard to be useful in 60 min game

[(PSN)robotwars7]

pretty sure at this point DE is going to have to address the 60 minute objectives, otherwise this meltdown will likely continue to get worse. a reduction to 30 minutes is fair for both parties IMO.

[Renginus]

1 minute ago, THeMooN85 said:

No one forcing you...

ehm ye it force all players from 1 hour played to 1289 hours to complete this chalenge to get points

[PurrrningBoop]

5 минут назад, (PS4)robotwars7 сказал:

pretty sure at this point DE is going to have to address the 60 minute objectives, otherwise this meltdown will likely continue to get worse. a reduction to 30 minutes is fair for both parties IMO.

Hmm, do not know if it was mentioned anywhere, but how about: "spend 60 minutes in a survival within a week + add chalange"? This way you are not required to stay in a game mode for that long and those players who want to challenge themselves can run it in one go.

Edited March 5, 2019 by PurrrningBoop

[Kiddshift]

I can understand people's problems with it, but my clanmates and I actually had a lot of fun running the 60 minute survivals. Most of us were quite drained but it was a good time all around, we got to just sit back and relax pretty much, so I enjoyed it.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

Umm, please enlighten me, how you and your team prepare for the following:

1) Nekros DCing from the game at 40 minute mark.

2) Enemy spawns breaking, preventing you from getting any life support.

3) You yourself DCing at 40 minute mark.

4) "Host migration failed."

Now you might say that bugs and network issues can happen at any time in any game, so it's not fair to bring them up... but it is here, since 1 hour long FORCED missions make all these issues much more likely to happen, and many times more frustrating than if encountered during "normal" gameplay, that doesn't require you to stay this long in a mission.

I did a solo 1 hour index run to get prodman poster, and during the last 10 minutes of the mission, the only thoughts in my head were: "internet please don't crash"  and "game please don't break."

I did a 3.5 hour defection mission one time for a clan rank up, it was to rescue 500 kavor. We had been playing for about 3 hours 20 minutes and needed about 10 more kavor and the host crashed. Yes we got pissed but we just saddled up the next night and did it again and this time completed it. Internet issues suck but yes they happen. If they happen at the 40 minute mark, you could always alt F4 and rejoin when it prompts you to after reloading Warframe.

The issues with life support drops are why a smart group will take both a Nekros AND a hydroid in their group, as well as a way to keep the kill speed as high as possible.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, Kiddshift said:

I can understand people's problems with it, but my clanmates and I actually had a lot of fun running the 60 minute survivals. Most of us were quite drained but it was a good time all around, we got to just sit back and relax pretty much, so I enjoyed it.

One of my clan mates ran it twice for fun.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, PurrrningBoop said:

Hmm, do not know if it was mentioned anywhere, but how about: "spend 60 minutes in a survival within a week + add chalange"? This way you are not required to stay in a game mode for that long and those players who want to challenge themselves can run it in one go.

Because that would be pointless and not ELITE, staying 5 minutes per mission 12 times.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

2 minutes ago, PurrrningBoop said:

Hmm, do not know if it was mentioned anywhere, but how about: "spend 60 minutes in a survival within a week + add chalange"? This way you are not required to stay in a game mode for that long and those players who want to challenge themselves can run it in one go.

that's actually a great idea! add up the minutes consecutively over the course of a week, so you could do 3 20 min runs, or 2 30 min runs, or even 4 15 minute runs. you should put that in #feedback.

[Kiddshift]

1 minute ago, Zilchy said:

One of my clan mates ran it twice for fun.

I totally believe that too, it was a blast at times, laughing at various enemy ragdolls and such.

[kingvaldemir]

Oh in addition to my previous reply, if DE really wants to challenge the players, while saving their time, please add a kuva survival or any type of mission in that regard that starts at high level like 80-100.

Again, personally the 60 minutes is fine for me, but the first 30 minutes is not that challenging compare to the last 40-60 minutes. Why don't let us skip ahead to the challenge instead of making the players spend 30 whole minutes and could've failed at like 55-56 minutes mark.

I made a full feedback on nightwave here.

Spoiler

 

please DE. It is time for the high level mission to be added to the game

Edited March 5, 2019 by kingvaldemir

[Kriegerurteil]

First of all there was no reason to remove the alerts and challenges with the introduction of Nightwave, since Nightwave is just something different, not an improvement.

Secondly make up your mind about the currency of nightwave: have it either be tokens OR standing, not both.

Better yet, remove the currency completely, instead give us weekly and daily missions that reward what we want directly. Like a challenge that gives you nitain, or one that gives you an alt helmet of your choosing, for the better rewards have it be more than one mission. Lets say you want an umbra forma, you have to do three or more consecutive missions with increasing difficulty and different challenges, kinda like a mix between riven unveiling and sorties. This way I don't have to wade through countless boring missions and useless rewards just to get the one thing I want, but can actually as was advertised get what I want when I want in my own time and pace.

These missions should be on set planets all over the system, because as it is now removing alerts and adding nightwave made 90% of the mission nodes obsolete, no one will ever go there anymore after unlocking all the planets.

Also I read that you wanted this new system to add to the lore, but some radio speaker telling us some stories is really not a good way for that since there is even less lore reason for us to do the challenges, why would some radio host want us to stay one hour in a kuva survival without live support? Instead add lore to the challenges directly, I know this goes completely against the whole point of nightwave and DE won't back down that much, but if you want to add lore to these new challenges then do it right.

[Kontrollo]

Like: I appreciate how these challenges are giving us an incentive to do some missions we wouldn't otherwise do. Well, as long as they're not overly frustrating or boring, of course. They also serve as a matchmaker.

 

Suggestions:

• With that in mind, I think there's room in there for some of the simpler Archwing missions (trench runs generally, Exterminate, Mobile Defence).
   
• I've seen PvP pop up in some comments. Personally I think having it strictly as an either/or option would be good, but definitely not as a replacement for PvE challenges. However, it's a touchy subject and there's already a good thread for that.
   
• Mot or Ani, for old times' sake -- but shouldn't be 60 minutes as a baseline.
   
• Destroy 20 grates, because they had it coming for a long time now. 😉
   
• Something something Derelicts maybe?

 

By the way: for future seasons maybe you should put some of the more controversial challenges into latter weeks -- spread out of course -- because understandably, people like to stack them up early on to be more on the safe side.

 

And only tangentially related, as a first time conservationist: At the risk of having missed it, maybe mention somewhere that one should open and consult the map for spawn locations, instead of running around like a fool with the tranq rifle or lure out. Corpus were scratching their helmets already -- yes, even the MOAs. 🙄

[-CdG-Zilchy]

 

5 minutes ago, Kiddshift said:

I totally believe that too, it was a blast at times, laughing at various enemy ragdolls and such.

Yeh I got stuck in a wall for over a minute and also got frozen by somebody's gun modded for cold dmg for the challenge after they got rad procced. The frost on the team frozen in place, highly amusing for the others.

[Kiddshift]

2 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

 

Yeh I got stuck in a wall for over a minute and also got frozen by somebody's gun modded for cold dmg for the challenge after they got rad procced. The frost on the team frozen in place, highly amusing for the others.

All around I just think I am enjoying nightwave as a whole, it's made me play content I couldn't be bothered to go back and do, and I've had fun doing it, like Elite Sanctuary, Plains of Eidolon, Tridolons ETC. It's been a really pleasant experience for me, and the design of The Wolf himself is awesome, I'm completely happy with this.

[Mr.Fluffins]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

pretty sure at this point DE is going to have to address the 60 minute objectives, otherwise this meltdown will likely continue to get worse. a reduction to 30 minutes is fair for both parties IMO.

Well I can tell you that right now it is causing at least my personal meltdown.

A bit offtopic, but I have recently picked up vermintide 2 on sale. Pretty good game all around, would recommend if you are into fantasy and l4d style horde shooters with basic character and loot progression. Anyway, while playing it, a random thought has crossed my mind - here, in 1 hour, I get to complete several missions with varying enemies, randomized encounters, and different surroundings, and I am rewarded with more loot for my character and levels. Or I could be farming this stupid challenge, and after 1 hour of killing the same dudes on the same tileset, with only progression being slight increase in their damage, armor and hp (no new enemies, no minibosses, nothing interesting), I get a bit of yet another rep standing and a bit of kuva (for like 2-3 rerolls).

But that is a different game, so let's take an example from warframe. In 1 hour, I could:

1) Run several different fissures (non-endless ones).

2) Do a sortie (if lucky with mission types, some may take more time).

3) Kill an orb.

4) If the time is right, do a trycap.

5) Do an arbitration for one rotation.

By the end, I would get a bunch of prime parts for ducats or plat, get a sortie reward, get some endo from the arbitration, get some focus and potentially good arcanes from Trydolon, get vox solaris standing, solaris united standing and credits, all while doing different mission types, fighting vastly different enemies and seeing different locations.

Or I could sit in the effin Kuva fortress for 1 hour killing slowly scaling grineer... I hope I demonstrated my point clearly enough.

 

[Zendadaist]

Things I like:- variety in the challenges, both in terms of difficulty (from easy even for a week-old newbie, to getting the gloves off and bringing out the REAL cheese) and in what is asked of us (from mindless murder to pre-planning and tactics). I note that we have only 2 weeks' worth of challenges to evaluate, and I might be making a foolish assumption that there will be more variety incoming (e.g. hack 3 data vaults without triggering alarms, complete 5 missions on Jupiter, relieve the debt of 5 Solaris at Ticker etc). I also like how dailies have a 3 day window. More generally, I like the fact that you're not locked to a window as short as 45mins to complete a mission, although it does remove the spontenaity of "hey something new just popped up, let's go do that for a change of pace".

 

Things I don't like:- strictly limiting the way you can complete a challenge. So an example of getting around that might be to make each challenge have an alternative completion task so that you can pick the one that you prefer. For example, that could be a way to add in conclave options for those that would rather tick off theirs in PvP. So there might be a weekly to socket 3 Ayatans (5 is too much IMO) OR complete a match of Lunaro. Endurance challenges can be fun but there's way too many issues that can break them such as all the technical problems from many different sources e.g. ISPs, Network error, host migration, PC crash. Until WF's matchmaking, netcode and so on is robust enough to cope with these issues and not penalise the players getting caught up, I don't think Nightwave should have too many of these. Also, anti-trolling measures. Maybe that was the intention behind the "with friend/clan"? Also add alliance to friend/clan!

 

I'm wary of having Nightwave objectives overlap too much with Riven unlocks, Nightmare modifiers and Sortie modifiers. Keep the condition & restriction stacking to Rivens only. There shouldn't be more than 1 condition to each Nightwave challenge. Maybe 2 for an Elite.

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

I hope I demonstrated my point clearly enough.

yes, you have. I think part of the reason this 60 minute survival theme even exists is because for a long time now, the Endurance crowd have been wanting more incentive to go for longer in survivals: these are people who have the time, the gear, and if not soloing, the friends to make it to 60 mins or beyond. they are completely at odds with the rest of the community, who have embraced the "bite-sized", either because they prefer it or simply because they don't have the time anymore. there needs to be a proper discussion between the Endurance crowd and the rest of the community to try and decide how objectives like this should be implemented , if at all. sadly though I doubt this will ever happen.

either way, I wouldn't expect DE to carry on with the 60 minute things, even as Elite Weeklies. if it were me I'd put it down to 30 mins, any less and it's not really substantial enough to be considered an "elite" weekly IMO, I don't mind doing long survivals when I can, especially with friends, but I'm probably gonna give this a miss. some weeks will have better objectives than others, and changes will start rolling out eventually.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

14 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

Well I can tell you that right now it is causing at least my personal meltdown.

A bit offtopic, but I have recently picked up vermintide 2 on sale. Pretty good game all around, would recommend if you are into fantasy and l4d style horde shooters with basic character and loot progression. Anyway, while playing it, a random thought has crossed my mind - here, in 1 hour, I get to complete several missions with varying enemies, randomized encounters, and different surroundings, and I am rewarded with more loot for my character and levels. Or I could be farming this stupid challenge, and after 1 hour of killing the same dudes on the same tileset, with only progression being slight increase in their damage, armor and hp (no new enemies, no minibosses, nothing interesting), I get a bit of yet another rep standing and a bit of kuva (for like 2-3 rerolls).

But that is a different game, so let's take an example from warframe. In 1 hour, I could:

1) Run several different fissures (non-endless ones).

2) Do a sortie (if lucky with mission types, some may take more time).

3) Kill an orb.

4) If the time is right, do a trycap.

5) Do an arbitration for one rotation.

By the end, I would get a bunch of prime parts for ducats or plat, get a sortie reward, get some endo from the arbitration, get some focus and potentially good arcanes from Trydolon, get vox solaris standing, solaris united standing and credits, all while doing different mission types, fighting vastly different enemies and seeing different locations.

Or I could sit in the effin Kuva fortress for 1 hour killing slowly scaling grineer... I hope I demonstrated my point clearly enough.

 

Nobody is stopping you from doing that instead. You could as an example, do all those things and use the plat you can sell the stuff for to buy the rewards you would get from the Nightwave standing. Go ahead, go nuts, use your time in that manner if you wish, nobody has a gun to your head. It boils down to one simple question: How much value do you place on the exclusive cosmetics from the Standing? Because everything else and this is what players don't seem to realise... can be acquired through earning plat from doing different mission types.

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

No issue with having an elite 60 minute challenge, but why have it that if you don't want to do an hour in survival you end up missing out on 2 elite challenges?

That's just mean.