Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

5 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

As a player who can't play much in open worlds due to poor performance but actually enjoys the conclave more than the PvE side of the game, i think it would be really neat to have an alternative way to fulfill challenges through pvp gameplay, that way players in a similar position to mine can take part in the system by doing something we enjoy instead of having to choose between going through the awful experience of playing in a slideshow or missing out on the reputation. 

I'm afraid you're in the minority there. Only a minor percentage of the community likes or even participates in the Conclave. I guarantee that if DE start adding Nightwave challenges to it, the forums will literally implode from the vast amounts of nerdrage. 

[MJako]

I like Nightwave so far. Some challenges r annoying (filling empty ayatan sculptures in particular), but considered it was a weekly challenge, it wasnt too bad. 

I feel many ppl dont get it that some challenges can be done in a week, on the other hand I think that there r ppl that can only play on weekends and they dont wanna spent the whole weekend playing warframe, so Im not really sure what to say to that. Maybe adding a daily/weekly hard cap on the obtainable standing and additional standing counts as somewhat prestige thing to obtain wolf-creds or cosmetics (I think something about a prestige thing after reaching rank 30 was mentioned on the recent devstream, not sure tho)

[Dishonored]

_{Why are we still here? Just to suffer? Every night, I can feel my leg… and my arm… even my fingers. The body I’ve lost… the comrades I’ve lost… won’t stop hurting… It’s like they’re all still there. You feel it, too, don’t you?}

Spoiler

 

[Chewarette]

Stop making #1 create the group, he has terrible internet (300ms).

[cnDarkElf]

I just did it twice, 52 min & 57 min.

I ran solo, both time my secondary weapon disapear. I had like 80%+ life support. You just can't put "challenge" (boring, long and tedious) content with bugs.

[thewhalechan]

All I can think about when I look at this system is how you moved away from the daily login rewards and added tiered rewards instead. I think that would work here too, you can keep the system as is, but tier it up so even those who cant grind up to rank 30 could potentially get that reward at rank 25 (while missing of course the 25-29 rewards). Also I would be happy if we could buy (with wolf credits)/get wolf beacons after prestige, if the spawn rate isn't going to get significantly better.

[Melanholic7]

i was scaried yesterday as hell. We were doing this kuva mission and after 40+ min after one of a jump i suddenly realized that i barely not clicked Air support thing near me :X that would be awful if i  smashed it... pfff. Really scary thing, lose one hour of exhausting farming just by accident :O

[(NSW)NeonNebula]

Nightwave cannot and should not replace Alerts. Instead both systems should coexist. Most of these challenges are chores to me and these one hour challenges are very tedious and they just shouldn’t exist. I’m also against forcing players to complete challenges with others and I’m very much against the new process of obtaining vital resources. For instance now in order to get Nitain we should farm standing then get Wolf credits and use the credits to buy Nitain. Why? It shouldn’t be this way. The new system is not friendly to new and casual players. Keep Nightwave but the Alerts system should come back.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I agree, next time we need 120 minutes so it's a minor challenge.

[Im_a_fat_boy2]

Players like to have options to do whatever they find fun. Please don’t force and restrict us to playing content that we don’t want to.

Bring back the old alert system which can coexist with Nightwave system so that a player can reach rank 30 just by playing alerts which give out standing and wolf credits too.

Give players both the options to play what they like. This will be great news to many of us. 

If I dislike the nightwave challenge for whatever reason, I still can just play alerts only and not lose out on the nightwave rewards.

If I’m so good and Uber that that I have completed all challenges within 2 hours, I still can do some alerts for extra standing and wolf credits.

Majority of us will probably do both, I personally will skip challenge that is not fun to me and make it up by doing alerts that I wanna do.

if I happened to be out of town for the past 2 weeks, I know I can make up the standing by farming alerts this week.

I don’t wanna be forced to login because I might lose out on standing and possible rewards 

i hope DE can seriously consider this because I love this game and I hope that it will get better and better.

Simple integration of 2 systems will help to cater to vast majority of the players

and please remove “with a Friend/clanmate” requirement from your challenge 

Thanks

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Im_a_fat_boy2

[LSG501]

14 minutes ago, RobWasHere said:

Maybe not? During my 3 solo tries, 2 times game decided to spawn as little enemies as possible even my Nekros couldn't keep up with life support around 30-40 minutes.

That's been a 'known' issue for ages, sure it's been over a year since people started raising this issue. 

[Steel_Rook]

Thank you for starting a feedback thread. A few points I'd like to address from the OP:

 

12 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Ayatan Challenges - too RNG dependent.

It's actually worse than that - they're too BACKLOG dependent. I collect a lot of Ayatan Sculptures and don't bother socketing them until I need Endo, at which point I socket and sell all of them. The challenge caught me shortly after having sold my inventory which made it much harder to achieve, but if it had caught me earlier I'd have simply HAD the Sculptures on hand to socket with no effort. If you can, avoid making challenges which can be solved with items players might already have on hand, because it promotes hoarding of resources.

 

12 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Friend / Clan Challenges - "I have no friends/my friends don't play Warframe". 

As I said in another thread - people should play with friends because they want to play with friends, not because the game requires them to meet a "Facebook Friend" quota. The system works best when it fosters in-game relationships or facilitates out-of-game such. Trying to build that into a challenge requirement has one of two effects for those of us who are deliberately private. Either I have to hassle my friends to play Warframe or log into Warframe at an inopportune time, or I have to throw people on my friends list whom I don't know, run a Sortie with them and unfriend them afterwards. I live in Eastern Europe, all of my real-world friends who play Warframe live in the US 7-10 hours behind me. Getting enough time to do a sortie is not impossible, but might not happen for a couple of weeks even if we wanted it to.

Generally speaking, don't try to force us to make friends. While I'm sure you mean well, the feeling that creates is of a zookeeper locking two zoo animals in the same cage hoping for them to mate. If I'm going to make friends and play with my friends, it's going to be based on "want," not "need."

 

12 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

For some of these Elite challenges, we were attempting to speak to the endurance runners, but it seems we may have missed the mark - if you liked it, or didn't like it, comment below. In the end, we wanted to make a series of challenges that spoke to every type of player, but we do not want to do so at the cost of enjoyment overall.

Given that the system requires players to complete the majority of the Challenges and that Elite Weekly challenges constitute a good 35% of all Standing for the season, trying to "speak to" any particular subset of the community is a mistake. All of the people have to do most of the thing, so when you implement a challenge this specific to a subset, everyone outside that subset is going to complain - as well they should. If want to go that route, your best bet would be to implement mutually-exclusive challenge settings. As a random example, let's say you want a "grindy" Elite Weekly. The challenge might look like:

Play 60 Minutes of Survival without using Life Support Capsules OR kill 500 Enemies within the same mission OR Open 1000 lockers in one day.

I know that implementing a weekly Standing cap is probably going to be unpopular, but that's another way to make some challenges legitimately optional. Give players, say, twice or thrice as much Standing per week possible than the cap will allow, then they can pick-and-choose which Dailies or Weeklies they do to meet that cap. Alternately, make every challenge - Daily, Weekly, Elite Weekly - award the same number of points. That way people can get 7000 points easily by just logging in and playing the game, another 7000 points if they try and another 3000-5000 if they REALLY put the work in. By deliberately under-rewarding Elite Weekly challenges, you ensure they exist as a minor supplement for people who actually like them, but also as something people can ignore without feeling like they're missing out on too much.

The lesson to learn here is two-fold: Firstly, if you're going to make subsection-targeted content, make it largely optional so people outside that subset don't feel forced to do it. Secondly, don't plan your reward structures with the expectation that everyone will be playing the "elite" content with regularity. Make it supplementary, rather than a main source of progression. Ideally, you want people tackling the game's hardest challenges enthusiastically because they're looking for a challenge, rather than reluctantly because they need to check a box. Whenever possible, design reward structures around what people were probably already enjoying rather than trying to enforce behaviour.

---

And as a parting thought, please consider restoring the Alerts system, even if it has to be done with a diminished inventory to avoid double-dipping. Having a source of one-click randomly-generated missions was invaluable and Nightwave in no way replicates this functionality/

 

[Melanholic7]

10 минут назад, THeMooN85 сказал:

 

Ivara - nothing is hard with her.

so,with ivara i can do 10 perfect captures and doesnt matter what animal it is? even if im bad,i cant fail,right? cause navigator+invis o.o or how should i use ivara if not?)

[THeMooN85]

4 minutes ago, Melanholic7 said:

so,with ivara i can do 10 perfect captures and doesnt matter what animal it is? even if im bad,i cant fail,right? cause navigator+invis o.o or how should i use ivara if not?)

simple... find animal, go prowl, use Sleep Arrow and catch ASAP, most cases like this ends with Perfect Catch.

PS. DON'T USE Tranq Riffle!!!!! Use ONLY Sleep Arrow!!!!

Edited March 5, 2019 by THeMooN85

[RobWasHere]

1 minute ago, Melanholic7 said:

so,with ivara i can do 10 perfect captures and doesnt matter what animal it is? even if im bad,i cant fail,right? cause navigator+invis o.o or how should i use ivara if not?)

Just turn invisible. Lure is alarming, but Tranq is silent now. No need to use Navigator.

[Melanholic7]

thx alot guys ^

:O

[Ascarith]

After reading that y'all were trying to throw a bone to the endurance crowd, I had the same thought that some other posters did: Set a cap on the standing per week and offer various challenges so players can pick and choose how they want to get there.

If y'all went this route, then you could even get away with Conclave/Lunaro challenges, since PvE players wouldn't feel forced to do those challenges. (And the PvP players would be able to make headway playing content they enjoy). It might also provide some more flexibility to scale the standing rewards accordingly to the challenge and/or time investment (e.g. Do 3-4 shorter challenges for the same reward as 1 longer challenge). 

 

 

I actually kind of enjoyed the challenges that asked me to go play modes I don't normally do (anymore...). I do think some of the numbers might need tweaking to keep people from getting burnt out (or just really unhappy if it happens to be mode they detest). For instance, I personally thought 9 Invasions was pushing it a bit (but I got lucky and there happened to be potato and forma invasions up at the time, so didn't feel wasted). In that vein, I thought actually things like Invasions should be dailies and much lower (e.g. 3 Invasions), while the current dailies like "get X kills with <element>" should be weekly.

Some examples of what I thought the dailies might look like:

• Complete 3 invasions (gets you to the reward)
• Find eight syndicate medallions (might be weird to set up, because I'm pretty sure some missions don't have medallions, but just completing a syndicate mission might be too "easy?")
• Complete 2-3 perfect conservation captures

This way, there's less risk players wind up doing things they don't like for that long. It might also keep things fresh for people who are indifferent and remind (or introduce) others to the different modes. Meanwhile, you can set "X kills" to be significantly higher because players can make passive progress towards those goals even by playing their preferred content (and arguably keeps players playing longer because they aren't complaining every other mission that they hate this game mode). Might also make sense to have one big "X kills" challenge with no additional requirements, then have additional challenges with a lower kill count requirement for various elements (or weapon types or what not) so people aren't running the same set up the whole week. 

An additional though is that the above could serve as a stable challenge pool that players know they'll get every week (i.e. reliable standing/progress), so they might freak out less when they see "elite" challenges that aren't good for them. (In the end, I'd still prefer there were multiple options for the "elite" challenges). I personally do not enjoy long time investments, so I would much prefer something that was short but actually possible to fail due to my own incompetence, rather than something long that I might fail due to technical problems. The Hallowed Nightmares(?) alert (where frames didn't matter, mods didn't work, and you used environmental mechanics to kill the boss) is the one that has kind of stuck in my head as an example of something "short(er) that I'm more likely to fail (of my own accord)." The fact that frame/weapon/mods didn't really have an impact (minus passives and Heavy Impact?) also made it somewhat more "equally accessible" to anyone who put in the effort to actually learn the fight. 

As a final note, the structure of the tier rewards kind of confuses me. I can see why the cosmetics and Umbra Forma are hanging out at the end - this is the carrot to go through all the acts and it gives veterans something to work for. I'm not sure, however, why Wolf Creds are tied to tier progress (and only some tiers at that). Most veterans don't need anything you can buy with Wolf Creds, so it feels like those rewards could be front loaded (or otherwise more accessible) so new players have easier access to what used to be Alert rewards (at least the auras and helmets, maybe adjust potato/nitain costs if there are concerns with those being too easy to acquire). 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Ascarith

[Dhrekr]

32 minutes ago, .OwOkin. said:

Why are we still here?

It's easy.

It's because a group of minmaxed tryhards have been violently complaining that Warframe is too easy and there's no incentive in trying difficult things and DE should introduce some endgame and they are saddened - in their heart of hearts - that so many people leave a Survival after 10 minutes.

So DE decided to give one - one! - incentive to stay one hour in a Survival. Of course, people can't have that.

[SirTobe]

The alarms bring something for everyone, and this one is obviously not for you, so just skip it if you're not up to the task. 

Asking for these types of challenges to be cut out just because you don't like it is just selfish and stupid. 

[Kaotyke]

[RhythmScript]

8 hours ago, TheFBD said:

One more thing i want to point out: a few challenges already had severe influence on the game - which is imho not a good thing, at least it's pretty sad. A few examples:

• platinum prices for any ayatan sculptures have almost tripled, same for amber stars
• it's almost impossible to get to zone 4 in onslaught with a full squad at the moment because people only do 3 zones to get the challenge and exit
• syndicate missions and invasions are flooded with AFK players trying to do the challenges the easy way
• low rank players desperately trying to keep up with their ranks joining missions way above their MR
• within missions players compete for kills now because the challenges don't share kill-counters
• low-level assassination missions are flodded with veterans (especially The Sergant) going for the quick kill not really giving low-rank players a good time

All of that does not make the game more fun to play.

The Hydrolyst leeching was unreal. I was a part of that negative wave, because I was not at all ready to run a Hydrolyst (with my mote amp) but I was damn sure not missing out.

I re-ran Sortie 2 a few days back about 5 times, because it was an Eximus stronghold. It was also a Spy. Here’s me and someone else in a room just slaughtering enemies while the other 2 ran and did all 3 vaults.

I and others blitzed to the end of Syndicate missions, forcing the timer before all the medallions were found because (unlike the typical players of these missions) we weren’t there for Steel Meridian standing, we have no need of it. The one pub that did, well, sorry for him. Better luck next week when every Syndicate mission isn’t flooded with people like me.

The game is encouraging me to do this. By setting up these tasks with a timer on them, it is telling me “it is in your best interest to do the following things as fast as you can”. Why should anyone be surprised when I do? When you have certain members of a squad with essentially a different objective than the mission itself, you’re setting up friction from people working toward different ends.

[Kaotyke]

26 minutes ago, THeMooN85 said:

simple... find animal, go prowl, use Sleep Arrow and catch ASAP, most cases like this ends with Perfect Catch.

PS. DON'T USE Tranq Riffle!!!!! Use ONLY Sleep Arrow!!!!

Follow the law of the jungle Valis, cover yourself with snow and your camuflage will be better than any invisibility. As Arnold taugh us.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

13 hours ago, Spam661 said:

friend challenge is easy, add temp friend, removed when done, or keep around for later, whatev. but I litterally cant find a team for 60m survival cause everyone is doing kuva survival and it seems i cant. in fact i cant do half of them because they are locked behind content i have not done or grinded out yet and some of it is just soooo boring. I couldnt do half the stuff last time either. really terrible. got to 52/100 eximus and gave up was too tired to finish grinding them. this is a really HORRIBLE thing for people that dont play alot. I have to grind that stuff instead of actually have fun with the few hours i play. 

 

keep night wave if you want. but!! Please put aura mods and nightmare mods and important bps back on alerts.  and maybe nitain. just no visuals bps for fluff. 

with alerts i could take a few min to run  dat cap and go back to work, this takes to much time. 

the eximus challenges, poped up where there was eximus stronghold sorties, u had no excuse lol 

[TheFBD]

4 minutes ago, RhythmScript said:

The Hydrolyst leeching was unreal. I was a part of that negative wave, because I was not at all ready to run a Hydrolyst (with my mote amp) but I was damn sure not missing out.

I re-ran Sortie 2 a few days back about 5 times, because it was an Eximus stronghold. It was also a Spy. Here’s me and someone else in a room just slaughtering enemies while the other 2 ran and did all 3 vaults.

I and others blitzed to the end of Syndicate missions, forcing the timer before all the medallions were found because (unlike the typical players of these missions) we weren’t there for Steel Meridian standing, we have no need of it. The one pub that did, well, sorry for him. Better luck next week when every Syndicate mission isn’t flooded with people like me.

The game is encouraging me to do this. By setting up these tasks with a timer on them, it is telling me “it is in your best interest to do the following things as fast as you can”. Why should anyone be surprised when I do? When you have certain members of a squad with essentially a different objective than the mission itself, you’re setting up friction from people working toward different ends.

Not blaming you, really. I'd probably do the same if i'd be in your spot. We can only blame the nightwave challenges setting the wrong incentives and making some gamemodes almost unusable. I still need to farm some parts from SO (last khora part) and from ESO (braton/lato vandal). No point in even trying this atm, have to wait until there is no SO/ESO challenge.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

the elite challenges are not a bad idea, even the hour survival was hard do to my clan mates being under geared

what i do recommend tho is have MORE changeless in total, and have them give out a small aount of credits for each challenge basses on challenge tier, and also have a progress bar showing that u only need to get 30k a week, and how close u are to the 30k standing for that week, but thta u can still get more standing past 30k so that people are assuming they have to get all of the challenges done