Archwing Variety Fix (Itzal Nerf), K-Drive problems

[(NSW)Katsuro]

Itzal has a 1.20 base flight speed so still the fastest, still the most used archwing plus with mod to boost even further so K-Drives are still left behind

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

5 minutes ago, Variks_Prime said:

I do like the idea of combat being viable from K-Drives, but I still think they need to be able to achieve movement speeds comparable with Itzal on straight lines from a jump (which, used well, will traverse about as fast as Itzal if the jump is high enough to clear most obstacles.)

 

As-is, K-Drives are just purely annoying. Like archwings were before the launcher went infinite...

Fort nite has their easy hover board expectations meet, while we have Overwatch players looking for more ways to destroy Warframe, if Diva got the Tonkor nerf, then we wouldn’t be having these problems.

[ZarTham]

Just now, Swagernator22663 said:

As someone already said "We going to nerf itzal, so that the k-drive can suck less".

wait.. WHAT? Is that for real?

[SpicyDinosaur]

I don't understand this at all. Are the other archwings going to get their feelings hurt if they just aren't as efficient speedwise in open world settings?

 

I've used Itzal solely since long before any of the open world stuff and this hurts my soul.

[Variks_Prime]

1 minute ago, Hawner said:

That is because, as someone very correctly put it, we are ninjas, we have to move fast. If that is the need we have, we only need a transport that is fast, which is the archwing, and get rid of the rest. If the objective is near, you don't need an archwing, so you either run OR go a little faster with a K-drive. As I said: correct tool for your need. Each one serves its purpose, no need for any change in that regard.

But K-Drives aren't serving any purpose for a majority of the playerbase, and archwings already have the ability to serve purposes BESIDES transport. Why saddle archwing with all the utility for almost everyone while K-Drives go to waste? They can provide movement, and archwings can provide things like bullet absorbers, invisibility, massive missiles, etc.

 

It just makes more sense than relegating the whole K-Drive system to being ignored by basically everyone.

[(NSW)Katsuro]

6 minutes ago, Aejan said:

There's nothing wrong with it being slightly faster than the other Archwings, the problem is that it sets the precedent for being that fast. It is the fastest way to get around the open world areas, hands down. No other Archwing even comes close. If you go to do a bounty with your Odonata on, you get left in the dust and are late to every objective. 

They're not nerfing the Iztal because it's the fastest, they're changing the Iztal because no other choice even competes with it. You need to pick it, or you are too slow to fly with the group. A faster flight speed is fine, but dashing a mile across the Plains makes every other Archwing a joke by comparison. 

I just hope they dont nerf volt speed next

[Vox_Preliator]

Itzal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amesha (For defending things while AFK and little else) > Either of the other choices

Gee I wonder if maybe this should get looked at.

[Chewarette]

Nerfing Itzal because of K-Drives is the dumbest move ever.

That's like nerfing the Paracesis because the Machete cannot compete.

Itzal, in 2019 Warframe, is literally the only reason a newplayer will have a slight interest in Archwing. Removing this slight interest completely from the game this close to Railjack is stupid.

Plus, that just pisses off people who hate Open Worlds (hint: a lot) and just want to do that quickly. Especially when Terry/Gerry/Harry love teleporting randomly from one point to another 2km away. Not even talking about Thermia Fractures.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Chewarette

[ExcaliburUmbra]

Welp it says “final thoughts” in the title so I guess that’s that guys.

Guess it’s all over and we gotta move on.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Katsuro said:

Itzal has a 1.20 base flight speed so still the fastest, still the most used archwing plus with mod to boost even further so K-Drives are still left behind

It’s the 1st ability that works the most in traveling Orb vallis. Hyperion Thrusters has almost no speed difference on this Arch wing.

[Hawner]

hace 1 minuto, Variks_Prime dijo:

But K-Drives aren't serving any purpose for a majority of the playerbase, and archwings already have the ability to serve purposes BESIDES transport. Why saddle archwing with all the utility for almost everyone while K-Drives go to waste? They can provide movement, and archwings can provide things like bullet absorbers, invisibility, massive missiles, etc.

 

It just makes more sense than relegating the whole K-Drive system to being ignored by basically everyone.

If all the utility goes to the archwings is because THEY CAN USE IT WAY BETTER THAN A K-DRIVE. Again, why do you want a K-drive to have an Archwing's speed if you are probably going to be hitting walls, rocks, trees, enemies and whatever in your way? Do you know why the archwings are so fast? Because up in the air THERE IS NOTHING TO HIT IN YOUR WAY! Why do you want the K-drive to use abilities if you are not maneuverable enough to use it efficiently and correctly BECAUSE YOU ARE STILL ON GROUND? Better yet, on a very awkward skateboard that doesn't allow you to move as fast as an archwing or as nimble as when on your own feet?

[Chewarette]

7 minutes ago, Swagernator22663 said:

As someone already said "We going to nerf itzal, so that the k-drive can suck less".

Yeah, I hate this reasoning.

They want to believe people don't care about KDrives because they're just slower.

That's like saying you firmly believe people are using Volt more than Atlas because he is faster, so we'll remove Volt's Speed so that Atlas will be used more often.

[Ikusi_Prime]

They aren't changing Iztal to make K-Drives more appealing, they're changing it to allow for player choice. If you want to get around an open world area, the Iztal is the best choice by a huge margin. If you join a game and you aren't using the Iztal, you get left in the dust. Their intention isn't to slow down open world travel, it's to allow people to pick whatever they want to pick and not be overshadowed by a clearly optimal choice. People shouldn't have to invest all the resources building the Iztal if they don't actually like how it looks or how it fights. 

They aren't going to remove the teleport and leave no compensation. The Iztal will likely get another ability that is just as good or better than the teleport, just one that doesn't make it so that you need to fly the Iztal to play the game "properly". 

[Gorgoroth]

5 minutes ago, Variks_Prime said:

Because the work very differently and they stack.

 

And as long as you do a max height jump beforehand, you can get pretty much the same distance as an itzal with a similar teleport. Most of my Itzal TPing is very low to the ground as it is.

Still doesn't mean they can't combine them, or with any of the other abilities. I'm just looking at the abilities and basing my judgements on that, I don't use any other archwing other than Itzal so I don't even remember what the other archwings do.

And jumping and teleporting on a k-drive sounds clunky and terrible, sorry. K-drives are fine as they are, DE just needs to accept that people use archwings, specifically Itzal, because they are faster. And my suggestion is to give Blink to all the archwings, like they gave Vacuum to all the pets/sentinels.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

7 minutes ago, Swagernator22663 said:

As someone already said "We going to nerf itzal, so that the k-drive can suck less".

A long time ago and still Warframe has outclassed Destiny 1 and 2. Also Hildra capitalizes against Anthem. So on the other hand, if we were allowed to use weapons while on the k drive, then Fornite would not be the competition on that small part of content.

[Vox_Preliator]

22 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

So is taking Volt specifically for speed a bad thing now? Nova?

Literally any other instance of "I want to do X, I will take Xframe/gun" a bad thing? Especially when travel is all archwing are good for right now?

And as for player choice, what about mods, Scott? What about SERRATION? Amalgam mods are nice, but you've still gotta use one of them. These base damage mods that are obligatory in like 99% of builds, that's reducing player choice but has anything been done about that? No.

I'm not even that attached to Itzal, but it's the principle of the thing if this is your thought process when it comes to design. Don't just nerf Itzal because everyone's using it, look at WHY everyone's using it and maybe consider if there's a problem with the situation that's resulting in such.

People use Itzal because it's the best at being a taxi, and there's little other damn use for archwings right now. Do that Zone of Enders archwing rework Steve was on about first, make archwing FUN and not a pain to control, and THEN consider what needs nerfing or fixing. Because as of right now archwing isn't a mode of play, it's a bus from A to B.

Because going fast is all Archwings are used for in open worlds.  There are rare exceptions, like how I used Amesha to do Buried Debts easily, but those are few and far between and completeley overwhelmed by going fast.

And since there is all of ONE job that Archwings are used for in open worlds, and Itzal does that job incomparably better than any of the other choices, there is no choice at all.

This is Coptering all over again, and everything that resulted from getting rid of that issue drastically improved the game.  I'm looking forward to how Archwing is going to be made more fun, more effective, and more diverse once Itzal is nerfed.

[(NSW)Katsuro]

2 minutes ago, Aejan said:

They aren't changing Iztal to make K-Drives more appealing, they're changing it to allow for player choice. If you want to get around an open world area, the Iztal is the best choice by a huge margin. If you join a game and you aren't using the Iztal, you get left in the dust. Their intention isn't to slow down open world travel, it's to allow people to pick whatever they want to pick and not be overshadowed by a clearly optimal choice. People shouldn't have to invest all the resources building the Iztal if they don't actually like how it looks or how it fights. 

They aren't going to remove the teleport and leave no compensation. The Iztal will likely get another ability that is just as good or better than the teleport, just one that doesn't make it so that you need to fly the Iztal to play the game "properly". 

how can someone with wukong compete with a max speed volt in a capture mission?
With the same logic volt will have a rework in the future so who knows

[Ikusi_Prime]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Katsuro said:

I just hope they dont nerf volt speed next

This has nothing to do with speed. 

It's not that the Iztal is too fast, it's that it is the optimal, "meta" choice. If you don't pick it, you are playing wrong. There is no drawback, no tradeoff to gaining the benefit of the Iztal versus a different Archwing. It has a monopoly on Archwing usage in open world. 

Give it time, and see what they come up with. Odds are that the Iztal is going to get a different fun ability, and the open world is going to get fast travel points that let you quickly travel to different areas. 

[Hawner]

hace 5 minutos, Vox_Preliator dijo:

This is Coptering all over again, and everything that resulted from getting rid of that issue drastically improved the game.  I'm looking forward to how Archwing is going to be made more fun, more effective, and more diverse once Itzal is nerfed.

 

You know that Coptering was simply substituted by Bullet jump, right? They just made the process of obtaining that result easier.

Getting rid of the very function that makes Archwings reliable transport for long distances will not make the game better, but the contrary.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Hawner

[Methanoid]

12 minutes ago, (NSW)Katsuro said:

I just hope they dont nerf volt speed next

people like me find volt speed more annoying than a beneficial advantage tho.

[HIGHDAMAGE]

8 minutes ago, Aejan said:

There's nothing wrong with it being slightly faster than the other Archwings, the problem is that it sets the precedent for being that fast. It is the fastest way to get around the open world areas, hands down. No other Archwing even comes close. If you go to do a bounty with your Odonata on, you get left in the dust and are late to every objective. 

They're not nerfing the Iztal because it's the fastest, they're changing the Iztal because no other choice even competes with it. You need to pick it, or you are too slow to fly with the group. A faster flight speed is fine, but dashing a mile across the Plains makes every other Archwing a joke by comparison. 

rest of archwings dont really have to compete with itzal blink, they also have other useful abilities for different situations 

its something useful think everyone agree on that so why not make it universal 

[NeroAugustine]

4 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Because going fast is all Archwings are used for in open worlds.  There are rare exceptions, like how I used Amesha to do Buried Debts easily, but those are few and far between and completeley overwhelmed by going fast.

And since there is all of ONE job that Archwings are used for in open worlds, and Itzal does that job incomparably better than any of the other choices, there is no choice at all.

This is Coptering all over again, and everything that resulted from getting rid of that issue drastically improved the game.  I'm looking forward to how Archwing is going to be made more fun, more effective, and more diverse once Itzal is nerfed.

 

Just now, Hawner said:

You know that Coptering was simply substituted by Bullet jump, right?

They just made the process of obtaining that result easier. getting rid of the very function that makes Archwings reliable transport for long distances will not make the game better, but the contrary.

Which is why we create situational nerfs as opposed to stat-based nerfs.
Make players want to use the other archwings for specific situations. Make every model attractive for different reasons, as opposed to boring because they are all the same.

[ExcaliburUmbra]

People asking for K-drive speed buffs probably haven’t tried Magus Drive on a board modded for max speed. It’s extremely difficult to get to point B without cratering at least once, whether the culprit is a sharp incline or a small rock. The speed makes it hard to react in time to avoid tripping on your face.

Yet people want them to go even faster? Yeesh, I can already see the complaints if that ever hits.

Edited April 5, 2019 by OmegaZero

[Guest]

Just give all archwings the ability to blink instead of nerfing Itzal and replace Itzal's first ability with something else. 

[NeroAugustine]

2 minutes ago, OmegaZero said:

People asking for K-drive speed buffs probably haven’t tried Magus Drive on a board modded for max speed. It’s extremely difficult to get to point B without cratering at least once, whether the culprit is a sharp incline or a small rock. The speed makes it hard to react in time to avoid tripping on your face.

Yet people want them to go even faster? Yeesh, I can already see the complaints if that ever hits.

People who have something will rationalize every alternative to nerfing that thing they have.