Arbitrations Revisited

[zoffmode]

I think the issue with Arbitration lies in Arbitration drones not in anything else. It's really obvious to anyone that actually played the mode. However, DE loves being stubborn on those things so expect Arbitration only to be playable in 2 years once DE gives up making same S#&$ty excuses as to why anti-fun mechanics should exist.

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

I would say that the drones should have a limit as to how many enemies it can be attached if it doesn't already. This attachment only applies damage reduction and not damage immunity, in this way the drone acts as a Trinity in some way. 

Drones have increased health and shield. Drone does not destroy everything it is attached to as it seems to do now. 

Drones should be bigger and have a small weak-point on its back that's not affected by punch-through, that allows it to be renders null at any level. (This favors invisibility frames with scoped weapons/sniper/ accuracy)

Add in health stations like in Defection and ammo stations like in Cetus

Drones drop cores that can be used in such health stations to ramp of the amount of HP gained for a frame (health stations has to come with a limit to revival) 

For every drone killed add in special buffs like plus Armor (additive) to go with these new debuffs in reviving people. Or reward people for reviving with additive Armor or some damage reduction mechanism. Or add in a screen selection where one can choose what power to increase (like an increase to strength, armor, or primary damage/status and so fourth). The selection would obviously ensue a time of invulnerability and have a limit as to how much you can select of each increase due to possible exploitation. 

Add new enemies in Arbitration from the new content added in game and for every faction in general, such as Fortuna enemies etc...  add a little more Eximus/ Corrupted unit. Most use the Simulacrum against Corrupted enemies. 

Just throw everything you have. A flying T-rex? Add it. A dolphin with legs? Add that too. 

Introduce flying enemies like insects or insects that dig under the ground (in this way they will be immune to damage abilities) that will favor CC frames like Vauban or Hydriod. Maybe these insects (fairly large ones too) can heal the damage reduction drone.

Maybe add in mini Bosses (for every 20-30 min)

Maybe add in a enemie, a big bad boy, that also is affected by warframe buffs and what not- lets a a Rhino buffs the team but this big bad boy is in the range, he too will recieve the buff. GG, but this could favor CC frames, especially Nyx

Anyway, increase sprint speed of enemies?

Hmm, what about a portal like in ESO that takes you around the star chart every 5 minutes. Could introduce gas city and those new enemies quite well, I really want to look up in the game and find a spider staring down at me. I'm getting spooked thinking about it. 

Right now, weapons like the Arca Plasmor are favored heavily due to the drones and frames with high survivalbility are favored. This creates less diversity due to other weapons/frames being less efficient. This is a design flaw, but it addresses too much to change/rework. Endgame, if this is the idea of Endgame, should inspire most of the content/stuff created in the game. Endgame shouldn't derail players in using some frames, or some weapons. So in a way, I would like to see more of game mode that can put CC/squishy frames on the board, along with other or most weapons and the new content you are creating for the game.   

Some more:

Normalize the duration spent in defence, survival and others that are impossible to gain rewards in under or equal to 5 minutes. 

Add better rewards such as Riven mods or riven mod components. Adding riven mods to drop table themselves could possibly make it too easy to make plat. Maybe have it as a reward for 100-150 vitus essence.  If such rewards are added don't normalize the time spent, it will be too easy to get. 

Make riven mods craftable, with components coming from reaching a certain point in Arbitration. Or that a mini boss appears at a certain point (maybe an hour) in Arbitration that drops components (at a fairly low but high chance, like 15% or 20%). 

How about adding a new system (only in Arbitration as rewards with timed rotations) where faction based weapons (only those that are not of tenno) can be changed with additive stats?

This would replace wraith/vanda invasions. It would be up to the player to wraithilze? or vandalize? the weapon. In a way it would be like the Zaw Guilding system but for Corpus and Grineer weaponry. Of course for some vitus essence, and maybe endo. This would be better becuase from my understanding, wraith are only obtained from invasions (with the expection of ignis) and at some point it would take many months to get wraith weapons? This would completely deny that from happening if thats how it works. 

[Kingdom_key599]

Okay so if the revive mechanic is actually going to be added then we should have something in place so that we (as in the player) don't accidentally pick up the drops needed to revive a player.  Just like how picking up a data mass works in Mobile Defense should be at play when in Arbitrations, because that seems to be a big issue currently as well.

I also kind of agree with changing the color of the drones link in the missions should be done as well, sometimes in game i notice it kinda gets jarring to look at after a while, not to mention what the drones actually do should be changed as well.

well from what I've seen anyways...

[bibmobello]

1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

well, I got Adaptation on my first ever arbitration so..

Adaptation doesn't save a squishy frames frames to be killed by a level 140 bombard or a bubble sniper.

[DUN_DUNNA]

1.  No revives please!

2.  Change Arbitrations rotations to 5 minutes not 10! I mean come on some of us have lives, dates, quality time with spouses, need time for family and friends too.

4.  How about getting rid of the drones or change their mechanic; if the enemy is invunerable to damage due to drone connect, then make them susceptable to CC, or make drones and connected enemy vunerable to the warframe and weapon we are getting a buff to use.  Otherwise it's not really a challenge but an annoyance, and the proposed changes to add revives makes the gamemode suck even more.

I don't mind grinding for mods or rewards I need but 10 min rotations with invunerable drones and attached enemy along with revives sounds like the game mode is going to be a ridiculous unfulfilling grindfest.

[(PSN)jockhotty]

Honestly the one life thing forced me  to get strategic and creatively clever so as to not die. The host migrations were a problem more than i care for. Anyway that new revive thing should only apply to a home made squad and not a matchmaking. Its too hectic when someone dies that I dont really see me wanting to bother reviving someone that isnt playing smart. I think if u must allow 1 revive, then it should be instant and a penalty of 2 dragon key equipped, the penalty will expire at the next reward should they survive.I also would support a faster rise in difficulty. The people who have trouble staying alive should be advised to practice in Sanctuary perhaps. What do u think of any of these ideas. Also to keep players playing it, you should offer some  glyph or or emblem at 100 v.Essence . No matter how  stupid the reward would be, its guaranteed high value and prestige for those who put in the work.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

4 hours ago, Dr_Wonderful said:

Devs look in feedback? I thought they only listen to youtubers with 100k+ subscribers

They do indeed read feedback.

I submit Bug Reports semi-often. Some of then can be exploits so I contact the devs non-publically about them & they usually say: We read our Feedback & Bug Forums over these issues. But thanks for the heads up!
That said. Arbitrations kind of came out how the "players it was designed for" wanted it.

In fact they were all very mad DE toned it down when it launched.
So I can see why they are mad it's being toned down again. But impo...its kind of their fault.

They wanted longer missions, longer intervals, permadeath, tough enemies that powers can't mow down, enemies that force players to aim & think, they essentially got all of that. DE literally gave what was asked for (within a slight threshold of reason)

But as I (and many others predicted) after launch it became a "rewards aren't worth the trouble/time investment", "Drones are cheap." (Even though without them the enemies would be mowed down), etc.
But the players it was meant for. Surprise, surprise stopped playing it. It's one of the least played modes in the entire game. (Probably down there with Lunaro & Conclave...)

If the crowd it's meant for won't bother then it needs tweaking. DE is going to try & get others to play it.
Thems the breaks on that.

Although, come to think of it...
I guess a solution to the Drones would be to make Arbitration enemies have armor, HP, & etc be like The Wolf of Saturn Six.
Then powers & etc would work. But every enemy would be one hell of a fight.

Addendum:
When I say make them like "The Wolf of Saturn Six" I do NOT mean to make each enemy take 15 minutes to kill.

I mean that they should have his:
- Double/Triple layers of Armor
- Large HP pool
Enough to where they take effort to kill but not so much that it takes 5 minutes to kill. Each enemy should die around 1 minute.

- Status & CC Immunity
Yes it sounds nasty but. As past Bosses, events, & etc have proven. Players WILL cheese what they can. Then complain the content is easy. (Stacking Shield Disruption/Corrosive Projection, Shattering Impact, etc)
While allowing Status to do bonus damage (Like how Radiation does to The Wolf of Saturn Six) is fine. What isn't fine is allowing Status to proc its bonus effect (ie: Armor Strip, HP Reduction.)

So status damage? Yes. Status Proc? No.

- Attacks that leave the player open to punishment.
The Wolf does this already. So Knockdowns, stuns, finishers, etc.
I know some players are groaning, but I must repeat. Aren't Arbitrations supposed to be hard & punishing?
Being Knocked Down, Stuns, Disabled, isn't cheap if you allow it happen. Dodge, Block, & counter. If not. You'll be punished. Period.

- Immune to Covert Lethality & similar mods/abilities.
Instead these should do significant damage. But to instant kill would negate the challenge of the mode.
I am a big Stealth player so this hurts me, but it is what it is.

The point of all this?
If we allow procs then enemies just take 2 or 3 more shots to kill. The point is to make them sturdy but without making them invulnerable.
This way they can be hurt, warframe powers work (so player kits aren't negated/worthless), but they cannot be one shotted, melted, etc. Who knows...they might even survive 1 full melee combo?

[PrimumMobile]

all of the wonderful feedback in this thread fall on deaf ears

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

Clearly no one at DE plays Arbitration’s 😕

Hate seeing this from development teams, changing things for the sake of changing them. When they have no idea what it will do.

[zoffmode]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Although, come to think of it...I guess a solution to the Drones would be to make Arbitration enemies have armor, HP, & etc be like The Wolf of Saturn Six.

Then powers & etc would work. But every enemy would be one hell of a fight.

That sounds way more fun tbh (as long as you can actually strip armor and stuff). I remember years ago doing some event interception where enemies were max level and were unkillable. It was pretty damn fun to complete.

[Ekemeister]

On 2019-04-18 at 11:53 AM, (PS4)MJ-Cena7 said:

The 10 mins reward needs to gooo

5 mins/wave is long enough its not like endo and sculptures are good anyway the onle usefull thing is the vitus essence new mods are needed for this mod to be anything of an "end game"

Also buffing strenth on frames that dont need strenth and would rather have range should be looked at

I love arbitration endo. Let's me make platinum thru r10 mods. 

7 minutes ago, TacitCensure said:

all of the wonderful feedback in this thread fall on deaf ears

Too True. Too True. 

[Kratosthe1st]

No one ever complained about revives on abbitrations, like seriosuly DE need to admit some of their ideas are just bad, Main issues with abbitrations 1.takes forever to get rewards 2.Drones are not a challenge but an annoyance 3.The bonuses they give are really not that useful, i mean who will use a dera when you can melee everything in 1 sec. Last but not least takes forever to get rewards which is just not worth it, you go 2 hrs you end up with 8 sculptures, like seriously which veteran wants all them damn sculptures

[(PSN)Zero_029]

1 hour ago, zoffmode said:

That sounds way more fun tbh (as long as you can actually strip armor and stuff). I remember years ago doing some event interception where enemies were max level and were unkillable. It was pretty damn fun to complete.

No. These enemies cannot be stripped of their the armor. They need to be exactly like the Wolf.
If you can hit them with Status then they'll only take 1 or 2 more shots to kill which is negligible.

Arbitrations is intended to be very hard. But since having drones force invulnerability is an issue. (I admit it does feel cheap. I understand the reasoning behind it. But I digress...)

The best alternative is very tough & sponge-like enemies. As this would force players to take every enemy seriously, as well as force true engagement.
That said I want to amend my Wolf statement. Every enemy doesn't need to take 15 mins to kill. But the double/triple layers of armor, immunity to status procs (avoiding them being stripped of their defenses till they are as weak as a level 20), immunity to CC, but decent HP that promotes an engagement. That is how they should be.

I know status being blocked seems "bleh" but already we have enemies like the above.
The problem is we can status proc them out of existence. What once took 1 shot, now takes 2, maybe 3.

As we saw with Profit Taker, players will bring Shattering Impact, Shield Disruption/Corrosive Projection & negate it all. Then complain it is too easy.
The best compromise DE can do is to make it where status still does damage (Radiation does do bonus damage to The Wolf) but doesn't proc & thus have it's bonus effect (stripping armor).

THAT is how we do away with Drones while actually making Arbitrations even harder.

[PalmerEldritch3s]

On 2019-04-18 at 11:57 PM, Protomorph said:

 not increase rate of enemy level scaling. Unnecessary. Maxed out Tonkor barely kills things past 20-30 minutes. Why make ABCCC+ rotations when it's nigh-impossible to reach 40 minutes, and no one can stand to play it long enough to go past that? The math doesn't work.

Everything about this is wrong. I just did 40 minutes as equinox mostly in day form. People got bored (because there's no rewards). I could have gone longer. I was in mourning, so I left. I'd have preferred to go longer.

You don't need a tank. You need to be careful. It's that which I love about this mode and I'm saddened by the loss of it. From now on, it's going to be pure salt, "rez me you A******s." And I'll miss the days that the unlucky simply left.

[PalmerEldritch3s]

15 hours ago, thor_sten said:

bout making it some kind of endless chain of random missions, instead of just a "a little harder" endless Misson? You start as a spy mission, and thanks to the data you know: There's a cryo-captive you need to defrost/defend for X Minutes. Then while bringing the Capitve to the exit: Suddenly Infested Invasion, so bring the Captive to saftery and then better sabotage / blow up this ship. While the countdown lasts, head to the escape pod to board the infested Vessel that brought the invaders here...

Oh god I love this. This game desperately needs a story element. Some little mini-random-generated story. No matter how dumb it is, the novelty of escorting a rescue through a survival/defense ... when an ambulas shows up.  Holy hell.

[Midas]

Magus lockdown cancels arbitration drones... It functions as on the go cc in which you eliminate the enemies affected and freeze the drone briefly to kill it.

Think outside the box, operator abilities AND arcanes exist.

InstaDeath is nice with squishy frames, you challenge yourself. Knowledge is extremely rewarding in warframe so those who use Octavia specters and rolling guard (skill based dodging explosive projectiles).

I run a 90% damage reduction ancient healer and/or an octavia specter with skijati for invis plus 2 trickeries on a UNARMORED UNSHIELED UNHEALTHBUFFED Banshee Prime. I survived for an hour and a half perfectly fine because of "experience" and it was a rewarding sensation of accomplishment.

provide 200 energy pads a run.

LONG TERM FARMING PLAYERS should have all these things with ease of access.

With experience it is not that hard to do, if you are new and expect to survive with a squishy frame in warframe... you are in for a rude awakening.

[Midas]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

No. These enemies cannot be stripped of their the armor. They need to be exactly like the Wolf.
If you can hit them with Status then they'll only take 1 or 2 more shots to kill which is negligible.

Arbitrations is intended to be very hard. But since having drones force invulnerability is an issue. (I admit it does feel cheap. I understand the reasoning behind it. But I digress...)

The best alternative is very tough & sponge-like enemies. As this would force players to take every enemy seriously, as well as force true engagement.
That said I want to amend my Wolf statement. Every enemy doesn't need to take 15 mins to kill. But the double/triple layers of armor, immunity to status procs (avoiding them being stripped of their defenses till they are as weak as a level 20), immunity to CC, but decent HP that promotes an engagement. That is how they should be.

I know status being blocked seems "bleh" but already we have enemies like the above.
The problem is we can status proc them out of existence. What once took 1 shot, now takes 2, maybe 3.

As we saw with Profit Taker, players will bring Shattering Impact, Shield Disruption/Corrosive Projection & negate it all. Then complain it is too easy.
The best compromise DE can do is to make it where status still does damage (Radiation does do bonus damage to The Wolf) but doesn't proc & thus have it's bonus effect (stripping armor).

THAT is how we do away with Drones while actually making Arbitrations even harder.

run crit and a status for overstripping drones. Warframes like Ember and chroma to increased damage (self buffed) on bosses/drones/sentients.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

22 minutes ago, Midas said:

run crit and a status for overstripping drones. Warframes like Ember and chroma to increased damage (self buffed) on bosses/drones/sentients.

I have no issues with drones. I'm just offering a solution to them since so many hate them. I solo Arbitrations. *shrug*

[SupernovaSymphony]

Heya.

So dying permanently isnt an issue. I dont care about it. It makes it tense and far more fun.

The issues with arbitrations is that they feel so unrewarding to do. 10 minutes and 10 waves are not fun. They feel like they take sooooo long. Ive been making a table to see what the average time for each reward in each game mode is, as well as the difficulty of each faction, and Ive come t the conclusion that about 70% of all arbitrations are not worth doing.

I only play infested salvage (about 6:40 mins per reward) or infested excav (about 3:20 mins per reward. Grineer is also worth doing, but a loki is almost necessary and the corpus ones, due to nullifiers are a complete waste of time).

It seems like we got a good shake up of modes, but somewhere along the way, it  seems most arbitration's are defenses. They are unrewarding as heck.

Please, please fix this. The time issue is the biggest problem. Not prema death, not even scaling. Its the time.

EDIT: I also wanted to add my voice to the choir: Keep perma death. Its what made it fun. Please.

[SupernovaSymphony]

2 hours ago, Kratosthe1st said:

No one ever complained about revives on abbitrations, like seriosuly DE need to admit some of their ideas are just bad, Main issues with abbitrations 1.takes forever to get rewards 2.Drones are not a challenge but an annoyance 3.The bonuses they give are really not that useful, i mean who will use a dera when you can melee everything in 1 sec. Last but not least takes forever to get rewards which is just not worth it, you go 2 hrs you end up with 8 sculptures, like seriously which veteran wants all them damn sculptures

Also, this, point 2. Drones are not a challenge, they are an annoyance. Either cut the time in half to do the rewards or remove the drones

[(PSN)TheVgamer89]

This is change will put the final nail to the coffin for arbie. I will still solo with Inaros, less enemies, less drone, moreover, don't have to deal with accidentally picking up debuff to my health. Basically, this is not fixing. Primed disappointment 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I see no reason why arbitrations shouldn't be made much harder, just increase the rewards to offer incentive and by that I mean just bump up endo and kuva rewards, nothing else. These can't be done until you finish the solar system so why can't it be made into a tough challenge, lord knows we need something difficult in this game. Currently farming interception arbitration is easy as hell and you can stay in the mission as long as you want.

[Midas]

^^ Rewards need to be better, harder content is always adaptable there are many things in game that you can use. It may be costly material like pads specters, cosmic specters, etc... but it can get the job done especially with full cp gas faction setups. You will own the map with that...

[Ticapow]

I’m happy to see you guys are taking steps to fix Arbis and trying to listen to play feed back but some mayor issues still stand. Two that come to mind are the invincible drones that just creates artificial  difficulty which limits what frames most players bring (eg inaros, chroma, nidus) since they are afraid of getting bum rushed by an invincible horde. Second are the long reward times of ten minutes. 5 would work just well with the sacrifice being the enemies are much higher lvls.  Atm arbitration’s feel like a chore and just like kuva farming get boring when it is same stuff different day.

[CryptonicLove]

I have a feeling that after this "change" they are gonna forget about arbritrations for a year or more before they go like oh we need to change it again 🤔