Jump to content

Arbitrations Revisited

Recommended Posts

On 2019-04-18 at 1:59 PM, Tromeo said:

Archgun riven gonna end up into one blip riven in 9 month like kitgunūü§£ why bother?

yep. the constant nerfs to all my rivens has made me upset, like every single weapon i use, has had their rivens nerfed, twice

and i guess, every single prime access, they will keep nerfing, since buffs rent a thing for meta weapons

nerf what people like to use, to bulldog them into using something else, its been that way for 5 years now

Supra, opticor, synoid simulor, tonkor, lanka, catchmoon, sonicor, cycron, zenistar, galatine [Zaws only now], obex, tigris

mesa, mirage, mag, ash, ember =[ 


i feel bad for people that pay 500 - 1500 platinum for a riven, then it gets nerfed to the ground

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is so odd...


The issues I have have heard concerning Arbitrations, in game and on youtube:

- The length is annoying: stays the same.

- Ramp up is too slow: this gets fixed!

- Rewards are not really worth staying for long periods of time: might be improved?

- Drones don't add anything: not only are they staying they have extra functions now.

- Not enough stuff to buy with vitus essence: improved!

- Things we want to be able to buy with Vitus essence: potatoes and maybe WF arcanes, we get Rivens for archguns, not sure anyone wanted more Rivens...


I expected the following fixes:

- Standard duration for missions, faster ramp up of enemies, more rewards for rotations C, removal of drones and more stuff we can buy wit Vitus essence.


Oddly enough the no revival part was probably the least problematic part of Arbitrations yet it's one of the 1st fixes the devs applied, why?


These fixes address the least problematic aspects of Arbitrations while adding new ones, for example; not only do drones stay, they now debuff you so every few rotations someone might have to get himself "killed", on purpose, so someone on a none tank frame can removed his debuff or risk getting one shot, yes none tank frames are even more useless in Arbitrations now, great.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Le 18/04/2019 à 20:04, [DE]Connor a dit :

Thanks everyone for reading - we hope you look forward to revamped Arbitrations. 

Thanks, this new mode was really craving for a few tweaks here and there. I can already think of a few issues though.

First, scaling. Resurgence burdens quantity should scale with how many players are actually playing the arbitration. Getting 5 items with a debuff while keeping defending, finding oxygen or whatever is really punitive if the team is only composed of two players for example. Since 5 burdens means each players has to get 2 by himself, perhaps something like 2/4/6 (2/3/4 players) would be more balanced.

Second it doesn't help with solo play or if only one player remains, he still has no option to survive a stupid death, and trust me there are a lot of stupid deaths.

Third, what about pets ? They shouldn't die permanently and tbh unless you're bringing a Djinn, sentinels can't survive much such missions. Bringing a single burden could automatically revive a pet for example.

Fourth, new rivens is nice even if i find arch-weapons already really really strong. What about increasing the riven cap by let say 5 or 10 ? At some point one can easily have many many rivens to buff his favourite weapons - At first they're quite scarce but after a year or two... You should fix the whole riven trade mafia (store for use and not for trade will be mandatory at some point) and allow a cap increase, it would be nice for all honest players.


thanks !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a good step forward for Arbitration. The scaling change alone makes it a win in my book. Initially when this mode was announced I was hopeful for at least a Survival with a higher starting level to cut out the ramp up us high level players suffer in star chart missions. The drones are still questionable of course. Methods of increasing difficulty are debated, but for me the drones are okay for now. I think there should be a bigger discussion around that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you guys are pushing another system to reward bad/lazy players, add more rivens to the pool instead of fixing the current problem, don't add rewards, punishes solo players and steve have the guts to say to mogamu "we are focusing in the veteran players", i don't know if 2019 is going to be a good year for warframe, but you guys still have plenty of time to get in the tracks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2019-04-19 at 3:40 PM, (PS4)PunishedGoose109 said:

So, so, so very wrong, wrong, wrong.

Adaptation, Primed Flow, Quick Thinking and a Rage and/or Hunter Adrenaline.

Enjoy being damn near unkillable with any Warframe.

All that stuff doesn't work with highlevel enemies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 —á–į—Ā –Ĺ–į–∑–į–ī, RadYogh —Ā–ļ–į–∑–į–Ľ:

All that stuff doesn't work with highlevel enemies.

Inaros with Adaptation and life strike work againt any level.

So do frames like Gara.

Theres 1000 and 1 ways not to die in this game, making it even easier for "the only endgame mission type" in the whole game is just pathetic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First raids were removed because Eidolons were more "endgame" then we got teased with Dark Sectors returning but they are nothing like dark secotrs and only had that name during development because nostalgia, I guess? Or to hype up ESO? Then we get Arbitration as the "True" endgame (not to mention that all the previous gamemodes were supposed to be endgame but got toned down becaues they want new players to play them too) only to be tuched 6 months later with "this". A revival mecanic that takes away the idea of permadeath and replaces it with a toxic way to revive players that queued for an endgame activity undergeared combined with the fact that is long and unrewarding. My favourite gamemode is survival but the only bearable gamemodes in arbitrations are excavation and interception and on top of that nobody wants to spend that much time just to get some endo and a small chance to get some mods that only a few are usefull with no actual content to use them against, because you konw, we got to be "new player friendly". Speeking of mods, archgun rivens. Because we sure need more slotmachine mods for weponds that find a use only in the Profit-taker fight. These upcoming cosmetics better be good. I'm not wasting my time to gate an average looking sigil.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just giving my two cents here, without reading any of the thread responses:

Arbitrations feel unrewarding. Not that they don't give us rewards, but in the time it takes the game mode to do so. Waltzing around for 40 minutes to get a bunch of Endo doesn't really feel like Endgame. Arbitrations feel more like a game mode that would lead us into Endgame, with mods like Adaptation and Rolling Guard being in there. But then the rotations feel so long and boring that it doesn't feel worth it. Maybe making Defense and Survival tolerable time-wise, but reducing the amount of endo per rotation (and chances, in the case of mod drops) could help alleviate that? It'd help people ready up for whenever what endgame is gets figured out, leaving a good foundation for when it finally comes.

The mode itself isn't inherently bad, although the drones feel like artificial difficulty sometimes. Maybe giving them the Scrambus/Comba/Ancient treatment and creating different types of them, for varying effects. It'd need good visual feedback, so we don't get any more units as infuriating as any Energy Leech eximus, but it'd add variety instead of making us play Duck Hunt 2: The Final Frontier with the drones because we literally can't kill or CC the enemies affected by them.

The reviving mechanic feels more like a crutch to include newer players into the mix. The sentiment isn't that bad of a thing, but should a thing announced as endgame be so accessible? And then the fact that you'd have to impair your survivability, the most important thing in Arbitrations, to try and save someone who, most of the times, just wasn't ready to be there will just make public Arbitrations into a salt-fest with people complaining for you to revive them because they died 3 minutes in. It doesn't feel even close to endgame. It feels like babysitting someone who wasn't ready to do it, even though it's called endgame. And since this is probably going to be shipped anyway, at least make it so burdens aren't picked up like Index points. No one wants to debuff themselves by accident and then have to walk around potentially being the next one to go down because of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@[DE]Connor Let me Tell you how unrewarding arbitrations are with an example of just Hieracon  , and that is one of the major problem of all the endgame activities you can do (I include Elite Onslaught and Kuva survival also there, but at least Elite Onslaught gives ton of focus + xp (because let's be honest Kuva Survival gain are so bad))

My friend spent 27 minutes in hieracon now

With basically always 2 or 3 excavators up all the time, it gave him 1,5k endo, 3 axis 1 neo ,on top of 49 omega isotopes for disruptors and 2245 cryotic

All of that which is varied in 27 minutes..

What would you get in 27 minutes of arbitrations? 5k endo maybe ? and that is with the risk of host migration and other people dying left and right (I dont die)

Now let looks at Kuva survival... Only give kuva at a lower rate than both Siphon and Flood which no other rewards worthwhile

Elite Onslaught is still being the best of the three because it give focus, radianted relics and other cosmetics and vandals guns (even if the vandals gun droprate is horrible) .. 

So Relics wise , ESO and Hieracon are kinda similar which is kinda bad tbh but it also gives endo and other things.. 

And what is bad with all of that is that you "rework" Arbitration when ESO is also in need of rework but it seems like a lot of older contents will be forgotten

TL:DR.. Rotation is too slow except on interception, Excavation for Arbitration.. It is unrewarding at best and sorry but Archgun rivens arent good rewards either because most of the veterans would either not care about them or are already at riven limit (90) . You also risk people host migrating you and if the host migration takes too much time, you simply die because enemies hit you..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please, for the love of god, shorten the arbitration missions. I don’t care about scaling enemies or reviving others. The only two game modes that are fun in arbies are interception and excavation. They don’t take 10-20 minutes for each rotation like survival and defense. And defection has all sorts of problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello,Here is my feedback on arbitration missions.So first things first,the random 300% Power strength on a random warframes witch might not even need power strength or the abilities are capped when reaching a certain power strength limit. Either make it so the power strength buff applies to only warframes that actually have use for it exmaple : Chroma, not something like loki.

The Rotation length vs rewards are bad say for example you go in a defense arbitration and every 10 waves you get rewarded,The ayatan Orta sculpture witch gives 2700 endo when maxed,but that takes 30 defense waves,now compare that to vodyanoi where i personally get on average 700 endo every 2 and 30 seconds ( including loading screen and also sometimes more or less endo ) even if i were to get 500 endo every time it would still me more worth it,just because i don't have to get ,,lucky to get endo'' 29% for the maximum endo sculpture and 55% to get 2k endo, ( not going to mention how unlucky i got a couple of times ca'z i got 2 sharpshooters in a row ) The roation themselves are way to long,10 minutes on survival for a chance on what ? vigorous swap ? yeah i'l pass on that. The only decent missions worth doing are the excavations other then that,not worth it.Unless you go with the idea in mind of i'l make a squad or call friends and do some fun challange where you try to see who can last the most or who will die first.

Now i know these are supposed to be end game content level difficulty ( call it whatever you want ) but endo rewards ? really...  I already have most of the mods in the game maxed and currently sitting with a lot of endo in my inventory waiting for new mods to come.. It doesn't make sens to me why give endo to end game players when you know they already have too much endo or already maxed mods.

Solo play is really annoying.Defense the target is a AI he's going to die unless you play something like nidus or oberon.Survivals are bad since not enough enemies are spawning = not enough life support ( not taking into account the fact that in arbitration life support is worth only 75% of the normal value.. ) Excavations are a pain in the ass unless you are forst but you are not that tanky, so a bit later on you are going to die trying to get that capsule for the excavator.Interceptions well ivara only that's all i got to say.

The revive mechanic should have stayed the same.. It's supposed to be endgame for a reason.. you died,well you were not prepared enough or you tried to push yourself over the limit with said frame or to much greed.how some dark souls fans would say (git gud).

Perhaps consider making the arbitration drones give damage reduction to enemies affected by it instead of making enemies invulnerable,Crowd control warframes are pretty much terrible everywhere.. you either take nukers or tanky frames depending on what's needed for said mission, example : eso nuke,defense if there is nobody to attack it then there is not reason to defend it. same goes for all the missions, arbitrations if you can't kill it take something they can't kill you and eventually you will kill them..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gotta say, this sounds interesting, thought Arbitrations isn't the type of mission I like the most I feel like it should devinetely have some changes and not just those you just mentioned. Don't get me wrong, I was actually sort of expecting that when you took lethal damage you wouldn't be able to revive yourself due that, in Arbitrations, the use of revival tokens is not allowed and thus you would need to wait until someone managed to revive you (or you could simply stay close to your teammates or even having your sentinel revive you with the sacrifice mod, as long as it survives that is), but instead you're instantly dead which is indeed annoying. And while that whole new idea you guys came up with now sounds, uh... interesting to say the least, I believe there're other things you can also address.

For starters, some missions, like survival and defence, take the double of the time for anyone to get a reward and I already saw someone here complaining about that. Sure, there're moments where it feels like that time flies, but more often than not, it makes the missions feel slower than normal as you don't get the rewards as often as you would normally get. The other endless missions are pretty much ok and you can still keep the same rules - like the enemies being able to capture the signal in interception missions faster, or anything of the sort - but there's no need to make them last so long just to get a single reward. In fact, Arbitrations is just one of my least favorite missions, the other being the Sanctuary Onslaught - including its elite variant - the only reason, as of now, I have for me to play those missions (aside from, maybe, ranking up some weapons in ESO) is just to get an ephemera, I mean, I really want the blazing one but people just keep leaving the mission after zone 3 or 4 not to mention how freaking hard it is to get it due to its ridiculously low chance of dropping! And considering that Arbitrations is already so slow I don't even bother doing it at all.

In anycase, I hope you know what you guys are doing. I know that End Game it not an easy thing to make but it's always worth trying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like to see more Arbiters of Hexis units added that add a unique challenge or dynamic. The current Arbitration shield drones all have the same properties and are destroyed in the same way. Arbitration Shield drones also become the focus of any scenario thus polarizing viable options for weapons/frames (Elec/magnetic AOE). Adding a little more structured variety would go a long way to help the challenge. (Target Shield Drone > Shield Drone Dies > Everything dies with Shield drone.)


I'd like to see wave bosses or rare enemies that spawn only in arbitrations that drop powerful mods like [Bladed Rounds], [Maiming Strike], [Argon Scope] etc at a very low % chance just so those kinds of endgame mods aren't tied exclusively to an event with limited supply that has almost nothing to do with endgame in the first place. Possibly adding more mods like [Fanged Fusilade] that are strict upgrades to existing mods but can be used in conjunction. (Can be diminishing returns for some weapons and large upgrades for others)


Tldr: add more dynamic variety, make endgame stuff drop from endgame content.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be fair, the host dying and leaving is an annoyance in general, though I question the persecution complex people seem to have regarding "If one dies, it is on them". Mistakes do happen, and I rather not be screwed out of my rewards because the host has no more reason to stay. Has Warframe's community always had a team of snobs who thumbs their nose down at those who may have pressed the wrong button at times?

Like really, should a human error here or there be the basis for condemnation? Generally no, but being an asshat should be. If they are bad with a frame, sure, but do not be salty towards someone for just dying. That being said...


99% of complaints have always been the length between rewards. The length. Not permadeath. THE LENGTH. Having to wait 10 minutes for rotations, two rounds of interception, 2 minutes for an Excavator to finish, etc is boring. This is the complaint that has circulated the most among players, so why on Earth would you work on the permadeath mechanic instead and then say "We listened to your feedback?" when you haven't even addressed this sore point among players?

Perhaps you can say Permadeath is the "most polarizing" issue, but that is even more reason to dedicate time resolving the majority of player's complaint, duration. The consequences of permadeath are just symptomatic of the larger issue of time dedication for an underwhelmingly reward with a harsh penalty that gives players every incentive to leave for another match.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2019-04-18 at 3:03 PM, MetroidHunter26 said:

I feel like a bigger concern for arbitration was and is the fact it is survival and defense are not worth doing compared to interception and excavation. You get more rewards quicker in excavation and interception than you would on defense and survival. Keep the modifiers for survival with halved life support on towers and capsules but rewards should be around 5 minutes like every other survival mission. Defense will always be the longest even if you reduced it back to 5 waves. Endgame shouldn't be about how long you stay in a mission is my take on it.

I think staying in the mission longer should give you better or more rewards, but should not be forced. The way it is now, arbitrations are just artificially stretched out. Put something good in the rotation c drop table like potatoe bp,built forma, and like 5k kuva. Give us an actual reason to do arbitrations. Drop the extra time for each mission. It just makes the gamemode boring and tedious to play for so long to get the same type of reward. Cosmetics are not a viable endgame reward, because once you have it, you do not need it again. Give us something we need a lot of. Boost the scaling, give us faster rewards, and give us good scaling rewards. At least drop the extra reward time for rotation c.


Another thing I would like to see done is making arbitration drones vulnerable to crowd control. Giving a revive is a step in the right direction for squishy frames that rely on CC, but lots of frames rely on CC or even have their entire kit based on it. CC has never really had a place in warframe besides endgame, and making endgame a tank only enterprise is really hurtful to players that prefer a playstyle based on CC. The past few endgame modes have had some kind of special check on CC. From arbitrations to ESO to toroid farming, CC has been discouraged by special enemies or the nature of the game itself. Encouraging roles and synergy between warframes is one of the more important parts of endgame, but at every turn, CC has been negated and discouraged. Many newer endgame modes even encourage using only 1 type of warframe, mostly dps and tank, but that kind of endgame just is not very challenging or fun. Again, letting players be revived is a nice touch and going to be great for CC based frames and playstyles, but I think CC needs just a bit more of a boost for it when they still get killed very easily when enemies are unaffected by their CC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. The respawn tower is not good. I won't use it because it takes a hit on my survivability . It will only make players saltly when no one picks them up.

2. Rotations are long can't we shorten them to 5 or 7 waves in defense(5mins or 7 mins survival). Can we do 5 waves for A. & B rotations then C. Rotations are 10waves.

3. The rewards are not bad but can improve. Remove the sortie sculpture and put in arbitration since we have a 4000 endo reward in sorties

(A) Kuva can be a good reward from arbitrations.

(B) sentinel weapon rivens would be good for arbitration.

4. I play arbitration for hard content and to push my builds and loadouts. 

5. Lower the drone spawn count. They don't make the mode harder just annoying.

6. Increase solo enemy spawn count.

7. Normal enemy scaling will be a great fix. Scaling now is too slow

DE . The whole team does amazing work just need improvements sometimes. Can't wait to see how you fix up the arbitration game mode.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is changing one thing that was in fact not a problem (permadeath) but only became frustrating enough to cause gamer rage from many because of the larger elephant in the room (EXTRAORDINARILY slow reward rotations) while ignoring said elephant crushing us against the walls.

Meanwhile, the lack of permadeath is going to attract players who are not sufficiently well-equipped for Arbitrations and which will demand aid until you use "Ignore" if they are holding you back so much searching for tokens that they are inhibiting your ability to maintain stuff like life support or hostage hp.  Public matchmaking with this influx of people that are unprepared is going to be a death sentence and now you need other friends at endgame more so than ever before.

This is exacerbated by what I already anticipate to be a highly polarizing change: the more rapid increase in enemy levels.  I for one (and I know others) greatly APPRECIATED this about Arbitrations because enemy damage in the game has gotten way too high in stuff like Elemental or Physical Enhancement sorties, where the game pretty much just consigns you to be oneshot even through Quick Thinking unless you bring one of the game's few super-tanks.  A small group of people demanded this, so now we all have to suffer through their request even though this is a divisive topic?  Now we're going to have enemies rapidly scale in excess of Level 120 to fulfill their pleas?  This is madness.  High level gameplay exacerbates all the difficulty factors in this game which are already broken, showing off the weaknesses in balance that usually remain hidden (e.g. armor scaling being exponential and thus making Grineer and Bursas ridiculous to crack; disparities in warframe tankiness causing Rhino to laugh at individual attacks that can squad-wipe other entire parties of squishier warframes, etc.).  And since we still have the halved reward rotation rate... these rapidly  scaling enemies will descend upon us to higher and higher levels for more and more nonsensical oneshotting power than in any other mode that has existed in Warframe to date.  Who cares if I can be revived and a misstep isn't permadeath, when I can't survive without cheese anyway?  I'm still going to be forced to cheese it and to party up with a premade squad of only with other people willing to cheese it as hard as I am.

Effectively, you're going to create a game mode that caters even harder than before to the meta-adherent gaming elite and streamers that play Warframe as their careers.  These no-nonsense people may be willing to only play the same handful of warframes exclusively because they are "best" for the mode (and not because they ENJOY playing them) for literally hours on end, spending all their waking hours on Warframe since that's the source of their income (while the rest of us have jobs and only get to do Warframe in our off-time) and with their inner circle of other pro gamer allies to make a squad and set records.  Anyone else is toast.

In summary, the only requests for change you are acquiescing to are the ones that are divisive and polarizing topics that, if put through, will make Arbitrations a point of pride for an ever-shrinking group of the Warframe playerbase and everyone else can ignore the new cosmetics (I've already given up on the Ephemera I was most excited for because it's locked behind 60-minute session grindwalls for 1% drop rate each rotation after putting in the first half-hour just to get TO the rotation I need - these will inevitably be more of the same for me and many others).  At least the archgun rivens can be bought for Vitus essence from doing one-rotation runs.  What about all the following  suggestions that had almost universal approval that are apparently not happening?  Drone removal/reworking (I'm on the fence about this one myself, but I know I am in the minority as the vast majority of players are strongly opposed to them)?  Self-revival only (so the 3, or more with arcanes - a happy medium between threat of permadeath but a single misstep not ending a run)?  And of course...

Faster reward rotations so people with lives outside of Warframe can actually GET the C-only rewards that aren't tradable?  Not a whisper here - even to say why you think you are justified in maintaining the current slow rotations.

After such exasperation, I owe it to you to make my own suggestions in case they are not already explicit from my insinuations.  Here they are, written in a plain list:

  • Faster.¬† Reward.¬† Rotations.
  • Allow¬†self-revival only.¬† This prevents the infinite revives and even worse the impossible-to-mess-up operator reviving nonsense¬†(like you wanted to do with permadeath), but it will discourage people from trying to leech in public missions when they don't have suitable gear by just going "well they can revive me by collecting tokens if they are so good, heh."¬† This is also prevents a single misstep or stray Bombard rocket from completely ending a very profitable run, which is what was causing people to rage.¬†¬†It also encourages playing other "endgame" experiences like Eidolons to get Arcanes to have more self-revives!¬†¬†This solves what everyone wants!¬† Please!
  • Realize that¬†faster enemy scaling is a polarizing and divisive topic.¬† There are some proud meta-adherents that love to show off how their most used weapon is Tigris Prime and their most used warframe Rhino Prime that are going to love faster enemy scaling.¬† Equally many people are NOT going to like that.¬† Starting enemies at lower sortie levels (and allowing them to scale up to equivalence of the final sortie stage) was the appropriate happy medium between these two opinions.
  • Consider the possibility that you may even be able to implement faster enemy scaling¬†if we just have faster rotations.¬†¬†If you do that, people who don't want to see Level 150 enemies can duck out but STILL get their C rotation rewards.¬† People who only have limited time to spend on Warframe can ALSO get to C rotation rewards.¬† AND the elite players that want to set records can still have their rapid scaling and can just stay for EVEN MORE C rotations (it's not hurting them to start getting their C rotation rewards sooner in the mission!).¬† Thus, if and only if¬†you give us faster reward rotations, the faster enemy scaling as a divisive topic might sort itself out!
  • Consider downgrading the effects of the drones to a fair balance of preventing nuking strats while keeping offensive abilities relevant.¬† I saw a comment once with a recommendation that the drones allow enemies to be invulnerable (as is currently true, yes!) but NOT crowd-control-immune (which they currently also are).¬† This would make people feel the value of casting an ability without allowing them to cheese the whole map by just spamming their ability 4 with 500 energy pads on the gear wheel and¬†a warframe with which that is an unfortunately viable tactic elsewhere (and there are several so let's not start pointing fingers and demanding reworks - instead, let's make a mode where that boring strat isn't viable but that is still fun to play, yes?).

If it sounds like this is several different ways of saying "faster reward rotations fix everything or at least minimize the downsides of things to the point we can ignore them" then that because, gosh-darnit, that may in fact be the case!  I'm also strongly advocating the self-revival only happy medium between permadeath on one extreme end and infinite, invulnerable operator revival on the other extreme end.  Drones remain a point of pain for many people but that can be silenced with some tweaking to nerf their omni-protective power as suggested above (no need for outright deletion as some people ask - those requests are borne of frustration that we can and should reduce by making them fairer).

As a final note, I may sound angry to some but you have no idea how thankful I am that you folks at DE show us the changes you have in mind for stuff like this and give us the chance to provide feedback before it goes live.  I do not write a response this long to rant, but rather to provide thorough feedback to make these dev workshops worthwhile (if we don't explain what we think would be better, they do little).  I've seen too many devs that try to surprise their fanbase with "look what we did for all of you!  ...Wait, you mean you hate these changes?  But - but I thought this is what you said you wanted.  Oh.  Oh my."  Now please for the love of everything good and true: take the advice I and others are giving to heart and reconsider the way you are going about these changes.  Arbitrations need help, but this isn't the exact type of help they need and I fear if it goes live like this, it will in fact only worsen the existing problems.  Thank you to anyone who does the grueling slog of reading through this long feedback response!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Create New...