(XBOX)Eminem2420 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Just now, WhiteMarker said: Because their PC-version has to wait longer. Something DE has said would never happen. In other words, Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft have to get their act together, not DE. Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft are just way to slow... Its not on Sony and Microsoft's side. The cert process doesn't take a month. It usually only takes a week at most. They can't cert something when DE hasn't put it in cert yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteMarker Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: but they only have and hold the update back for a few days!!!!! not the months it's taking. And here comes the thing into play, I talked about before: Where do you get your information from how exactly DE's way of development goes? Do you really think they just take the "PC-files" and send them to Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft? That's not how it works. That's far from reality. Just now, (XB1)Eminem2420 said: Its not on Sony and Microsoft's side. The cert process doesn't take a month. It usually only takes a week at most. They can't cert something when DE hasn't put it in cert yet. Wow... thank you for stating obvious things. Fact is, DE doesn't want to hold back PC, even just for a week. Again, not on DE, it's on the consoles... Edited June 8, 2019 by WhiteMarker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hikuro-93 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) As for actual delays, DE already delayed PC's update to match consoles with Nightwave. Small thing, yes. But the fact remains... They delayed, told no one about it, and PC still was happy to get Nightwave. You can't be mad about a delay you don't even know exists. Says a lot about midless hype and hate for all kinds of stuff. Not to say they should. I don't want any of the PC game breaking bugs so I'm more than happy to wait, honestly. Edited June 8, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Eminem2420 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Just now, WhiteMarker said: And here comes the thing into play, I talked about before: Where do you get your information from how exactly DE's way of development goes? Do you really think they just take the "PC-files" and send them to Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft? That's not how it works. That's far from reality. Wow... thank you for stating obvious things. Fact is, DE doesn't want to hold back PC, even just for a week. Again, not on DE, it's on the consoles... No its not. That is what i just explained. You can claim its on the consoles all you want, but that is just not true. DE is the reason that consoles have to wait months after to get an update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro3Display Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: pull together an actual QA team like every. Single. Other. Developer. now. that's. a. lie. . . Edited June 8, 2019 by Pro3Display Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OvisCaedo Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) Okay, one: no, I don't think the updates take "months" to catch up any more. They do tend to take several weeks! two: yes, a lot of that delay is still largely on DE's end for how much they have to scramble to hotfix everything and getting their tangled mess of tech-debt code running on things. It'd probably be a lot easier if the game wasn't built on top of so much spaghetti, but there's not much fixing that at this point. It's a mix of cert and how many times they need to re-patch things to actually get them working because of how much of a mess initial deployments are. The patches were submitted to cert 2 days ago, but the initial update came out just about two weeks prior to that. It didn't take cert several weeks, it took them two weeks to get the content patched to a point where it was worth submitting. And they'll probably still need to hotfix it on consoles, too! eight hotfixes came out during that two week period. That's kind of the evidence that DE isn't very good at getting an update out working quite properly or fully thought out to begin with. Edited June 8, 2019 by OvisCaedo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hikuro-93 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, OvisCaedo said: Okay, one: no, I don't think the updates take "months" to catch up any more. They do tend to take several weeks! two: yes, a lot of that delay is still largely on DE's end for how much they have to scramble to hotfix everything and getting their tangled mess of tech-debt code running on things. It'd probably be a lot easier if the game wasn't built on top of so much spaghetti, but there's not much fixing that at this point. It's a mix of cert and how many times they need to re-patch things to actually get them working because of how much of a mess initial deployments are. The patches were submitted to cert 2 days ago, but the initial update came out just about two weeks prior to that. It didn't take cert several weeks, it took them two weeks to get the content patched to a point where it was worth submitting. And they'll probably still need to hotfix it on consoles, too! Updates nowadays take merely about 2-3 weeks weeks to get to consoles. Even big ones. See Jovian Concord right now, even. So yeah, the 1+ month thing is mostly a lie based on old knowledge nowadays. Edited June 8, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonMarc Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 1 minute ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: But don't you get it? It's only constant, almost daily updates because they oversee stuff constantly, and the bugs, the bugs! Its true they do update almost daily sometimes but its not just bug fixes they do QOL changes they add new stuff and balance gamemodes warframes and whatnot. Personally only noticed 1 bug in the past 2 weeks and its not game braking. If they held large updates back to release at the same time (something with a new gamemode) PC feedback will get implemented on PC side then consoles will have to be forced to play the less appealing version of that gamemode. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmberStar Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 46 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: Yes we could, if de would actually use their money correctly and pull together an actual QA team like every. Single. Other. Developer. But what am I saying, sounds silly to have that what every other developer has. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ DE has a QA team. That's why we almost never get a patch that does something like deleting the root directory or wiping the hard drive. But Warframe on PC is 20GB in size. That's a LOT of code, and stuff slips through. I mean, just in terms of testing Warframe cosmetic options, there are 40 base Warframes, most with at least two skins. A large number of Prime frames, and I'm not even going to guess how many Tennogen helmets and skins. Plus the Deluxe skins, which are completely separate models. Just checking each time to make sure that a patch didn't unexpectedly break the *cosmetics* would take a massive amount of time. And then there are all the weapons, all the mods that can fit on the weapons, all the varied mechanics that are *used* by all the weapons and powers... If you're claiming that "every other" developer somehow releases patches that never break anything, I'd happily point you at Planet Coaster (which has very good patches, but still needs to hotfix) and the PC version of Nier Automata. Which has some pretty serious issues on PC, and has never gotten a PC patch EVER to the best of my knowledge. (I could have said the devs of Ark and Conan Exiles, but that felt cheap since some people happily claim that both games have never been anything but completely broken.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro3Display Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Just now, EmberStar said: 20GB in size. That's a LOT of code it's not code, 95% or even more of games size is textures. everything else is plain text and doesnt take much space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmberStar Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 1 minute ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: I just love when PC players say that (not aimed at you!), first of all important hotfixes can actually be fixed, we've had it in the past with like 4 hotfixes a day.. so they can do it. And second, always this talk about how unplayable and disgusting the game is before all the fixes, yet veterans breeze through and get everything in 24 hours so hm? What's unplayable there.. For myself, I have a new Warframe three hours after it launches because I just buy the bundles most of the time. I want the extra cosmetic options, and I don't consider "grinding against RNG for weeks" to be content. I consider *using* a new Warframe to ruin the day for the Grineer to be content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonMarc Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: I just love when PC players say that (not aimed at you!), first of all important hotfixes can actually be fixed, we've had it in the past with like 4 hotfixes a day.. so they can do it. And second, always this talk about how unplayable and disgusting the game is before all the fixes, yet veterans breeze through and get everything in 24 hours so hm? What's unplayable there.. Was not aware that some(all ?) hotfixes didn't need to go thru cert. 24 hours is allot of time for those who have everything and some of those bugs that make something unplayable can be bypassed by trying again and hoping it works that time. Edited June 8, 2019 by AnonMarc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmberStar Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 1 minute ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: But why after 3 hours and not instantly? ಠ_ʖಠ I buy them as soon as the loading screen is over 😄 Because I have DSL, and a recurring glitch where the launcher will break and choke to death on the last 50kb of the patch sometimes and refuses to complete. If it *doesn't* break, I might be able to play the same afternoon. If it *does* break, I might not be able to play again until another patch randomly *un*breaks it again. 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSG501 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) To the OP, PC is basically your 'free' qc team, we find the bugs which wouldn't get through the cert process for consoles which DE then goes and fixes before they send off to cert. edit: funny how the original part of the post has been edited out without any sort of mention by the person editing it and from the person who quoted it... Edited June 8, 2019 by LSG501 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmberStar Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Just now, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: We have DE's weird launcher so I'm not sure, but I think bigger fixes need to go through cert, but they must be allowed smaller ones because we had it in the past, multiple times. Even Xbox can't cert in less than minutes lol Sounds more interesting to me 😉 I'm fairly sure that console builds can get hotfixes for some things. But there might be limits to "how big" or "how many," and I have no idea what those are. I do know that for Ark, console versions don't get patched at the same time as the PC version either, but sometimes *do* get hotfixes for absolutely critical issues right away. Critical in this case being things like "characters cease to exist when you try to transfer to a different map." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Shadox Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 1 hour ago, (PS4)dropnation40 said: I know this is dumb to say but I feel like it dumb to wait 2 to 1 months after PC gets one can you explain why? Plus dont be salty and toxic when commenting PC players are the QA team, we're going through, stress testing new features and modes, finding bugs, breaking builds, etc. so the version console players get are more stable and enjoyable. As to the reason why it takes so long; it takes awhile to find the more obscure things in the new content. From what I've seen, it's taking less and less time as the game grows but it'll still take time. It's why DE releases new content via events, to get as many people playing the new stuff as possible, to really put it to the test before sending it off to the 3 other companies for certification, that they have to pay for. I imagine once the game goes live (it's still in beta) DE will have a stable QA team to do this for all 4 platforms and everyone can get updates much closer together, if not at the same time, but we haven't reached that point yet. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmberStar Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Oh, and something to keep in mind. Submitting a console build for certification costs money. A figure I saw from another dev on a different game is that just submitting a build to the consoles for certification costs something like $30,000 per attempt. If the build *fails,* that money is non-refundable. And resubmitting the corrected build costs another $30,000. Which is why they use the PC version to fine tune the patches, and catch all the weird edge case (or at least "well it wasn't obvious to us at the time") bugs and issues. PC gets patch version Whatever.0 and then a dozen hotfix versions. Consoles usually *start* with Whatever.12 and then hotfix from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)SilverSurferGuy Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 It would be nice, but as others have mentioned there’s a verification process the builds need to go through. It’s not all bad though as by the time we do get the updates DE will have done a patch or two to fix any bugs or glitches that PC users might experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: That's why they should stock up the QA team, I mean literally everyone benefits from that. PC builds would be less buggy and it wouldn't take up to months for the console players to get an update. (Again I'm not talking about the JC) Right now, PC is the QA team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 1 minute ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: Which is plain stupid from a company as big as DE to do. IMHO They have less than 200 employees (Might have gone up, I haven't checked lately) In order to get a QA team that does as well as the entire PC playerbase does, they'd have to hire several hundred people. Right now, DE just has to put out an event to get hundreds of thousands of players to play the Hek out of to find the larger, easier to find bugs and exploits and then ship it off to consoles once they're fixed. That saves them a lot of money, why should they change that when it works so well for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: Wow with that sentiment the game definitely never leaves beta.. Well I learn everyday, heh? Oh, sweet, overreaction and comparing two different things. Guess there's not point in trying to engage you in this topic anymore, since you're just going to lash out with self deprecation and exaggeration. I hope your day improves, Clem. Edited June 8, 2019 by MagPrime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shalath Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 1 hour ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: -Snip- Have you watched the NoClip documentary on Youtube? Several investors/publishers flat out said that Warframe would fail because it looks extremely good for a F2P game and they didn't think DE could pump out content of that quality quick enough to stop the players consuming everything and just leaving. Consoles are a relatively easy win as they are fixed platforms with all consoles of their type being equal. PC on the other hand is an unholy Frankenstein of a platform with any number of combinations of hardware, OS/driver versions and additional software like overlays (which regularly cause issues) that DE simply can't test every combination of. Us PC players acting as a secondary QA are one of the things that allow DE to push content fast enough. Once the kinks are ironed out and they have a build they are happy with they send it to cert. It really isn't a difficult business model to figure out. If DE did all of the testing themselves we would be weeks/months between updates while they tested every bit of content (of which there is a lot) and bugs would still slip through making the delay for the submission to cert likely longer. I'll throw you a challenge if none of that makes any sense to you. Run every planetary node, every sortie combination, every invasion and every other piece of content there is (whole maps, no speedrunning) and note down how long that takes in terms of hours. Oh, you need to do the same for every language the game supports as well as typo's are bugs. Let's pull an imaginary number of 50 QA people out of the air and divide your hours by that. Add the number of hours to actually develop the content and tell me how frequently your fully QA'd updates will ship after your QA process is run. Not a small number is it? Are you prepared to wait that long for every new bit of content including hotfixes? That is how the "proper" QA you refer to works. Yes, I work for a software house 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: but they only have and hold the update back for a few days!!!!! not the months it's taking. Except that isnt true. PC would be the platform that would get your current waiting times instead, because the two platforms are different and need different attention. Otherwise you'd end up with a "Chaosbane" release for PC where everything would be tweaked towards consoles, leaving the PC players with a peasant experience. If a game is designed from the start to have simultaneous releases on the different platforms it is a different story, because it is already there in the game. Now we are talking about a game designed for PC and ported to console afterwards. This isnt Fortnite where you have a game designed for cross platform releases and cross platform play from the first day of development. Just because some games do it one way it doesnt mean all games can do it that way. So your mentioned experience in other games regarding how they do it has no bearing on how it is done in WF or any other game for that matter. edit: And it is straight up silly to suggest that they'd get a bigger QA team when it wouldnt even compare to the problem solving that the millions of PC players perform after patches. A bigger QA team would simply mean a few less bugs for the PC crowd to find. Even if they doubled their QA team it would be a drop in the ocean compared to what dedicated players can find because the deadlines would still be there. Edited June 8, 2019 by SneakyErvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlusteredFerret Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: That's why they should stock up the QA team, I mean literally everyone benefits from that. PC builds would be less buggy and it wouldn't take up to months for the console players to get an update. (Again I'm not talking about the JC) Fine - do you want to pay the salaries of the extra employees? Also can take time to recruit extra staff. Its not like they can just bring people in at a moment's notice. Sometimes even when you want to recruit, its not always possible to find the people with the necessary skills...in the right locations...happy to work for what you're offering...with the right personality who will fit in with the rest of the team... Edited June 8, 2019 by FlusteredFerret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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