How Night wave burned out my full clan.

[krc473]

45 minutes ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

question is when and how they would do this it took years for old event items to be added into plauge star rewards for the plains event

It is really simple. Once you hit rank 30 in NW you get the Prestige system. Currently it just has Wolf Creds. In futures 'seasons' some of the prestige rewards will be the exclusive one's from previous seasons. I believe the intention would be either to do it from next season, or let a couple run first then implement it. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Limorkil said:

 I never see anyone go “I couldn’t do all the challenges and had a hard time with it but that’s perfectly ok with me. “

I genuinely couldn't do all the challenges, and I'm fine with it. I had to skip over anything Eidolon or Profit-Taker related since most of my clan left ages ago and I CBA trying with unpredictable randoms. I also avoided the 60 minute survival challenges, because again, no friends/clanmates online and I'm not an endurance fan, and I didn't bother with the Index because Glast Gambit made me never want to play that mode again. I'd rather just keep selling duplicate mods and other trash to avoid being poor than run that place.

despite all this, I still made it past rank 30. you can be quite selective with the challenges, and still reap all the rewards, especially since now WoS6 isn't ending until May 15th.

[Xavori]

Let me begin by saying that everyone pointing out only needing to do 60% is right.  You're all also missing the point.

 

I'm level 50 Nightwave.  I've done everything but the first Profit Taker because I couldn't do that one due to being fairly new (60 some days of playing) and not having enough status with Sol U to even fight Profit Taker (just one more negative on the whole Nightwave thing btw).  I'm not agreeing with the OP because of sour grapes or the like.  I agree with the OP because a game shouldn't intentionally be unfun.

There is nothing fun about being stuck in a an hour long mission.  Sure, I've gone longer than that in survival modes just because I wanted to at the time, and heck, I even join in kuva fortress runs because 10-20k kuva without jumping in and out of missions is appealing to me.  But it's always been me on my terms, not me forced to stick an hour and knowing that if something comes up I'm screwed out of my reward for the time I was able to put in, or lose everything because of a troll, etc.  By forcing people who might, possibly, have real world lives and real world responsibilities that could come up to lock themselves away for an hour is just terribad design.  It's worse because there is nothing about minute 59 that is different than minute 1 which means boring.  This was even more extreme in the 40 wave defense during which my 3 clanmates and I were barely paying attention at all to the game and just rambling about nonsense because, well, 40 wave defense is extremely boring.

I'd also say that Warframe wouldn't have as large a player base as it does if grouping was mandatory as it is in so many Nightwave missions.  I'm in a huge clan so finding people for these "with a clan or friend" is usually pretty easy.  But even with a hundred people online in our clan, I had to make a fake friend to run Profit Taker this time because nobody in my clan wants to do that fight anymore (can you blame them?  It's a huge pile of notfun.).  

And only needing to do 60% doesn't fix any of that, especially for new players who actually need the stuff that is now locked behind wolf credits.  Need an aura for your new frame?  Nightwave.  Need Nitain Extract for your new weapon/frame/cosmetic?  Nightwave.  Need an orokin catalyst/reactor and don't have any plat?  Nightwave.  In fact, not only do new players need to finish Nightwave,  they likely, like I did, need to get way beyond finished.  It wasn't until I hit level 48 that I felt I had everything I needed from Nightwave, and even with that, I'm pretty sure the last thing I'm going to do before it goes away is spend my last credits grabbing as much Nitain Extract as I can because I know I'm not done needing that for the huge pile of stuff I haven't made yet.

DE shouldn't have added GRIND FOR AN HOUR WITH FAKE FRIENDS missions AT ALL.  The challenges should be that, challenges.  Make it something like 'Finish a spy mission in less than 10 minutes without setting off any alarms" or "Get a 3x melee multiplier and hold it for 5 minutes".  Things that are the exact opposite of "Do some normal mission but just for a really long time with people you sent a friend request to just before starting."

Oh, and one more thing...groups should never, ever be punished because of one person's actions.  I know in terms of the current Kuva survival fortress that not ending the challenge for the whole group would have been exploitable, but that'd been better than driving players away by allowing griefing in what is already a huge annoyance.

[Kaimera_Prime]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)Limorkil said:

As always, all I hear is people who have the ability and inclination to do all Nightwave Challenges telling others that doing all the challenges is wrong and unnecessary.  I never see anyone go “I couldn’t do all the challenges and had a hard time with it but that’s perfectly ok with me. “ it’s like rich people telling poor people that all they have to do to be happier is buy x, y and z. 

I hate Nightwave for multiple reasons, one of which is that it dangles challenges and rewards in front of newer players like candy and then says “Nah ah - these are not for you” like some $&*^ in a bar who pulls the cash away when the girl behind the bar reaches for it.  

Personally, I think the more extreme challenges need to be gated in some way, either by MR or quest/star chart progression. That way people like me don’t see them and assume they can do them.  

specific start and end dates would help a lot. and not locking the vet rewards behind 7-8 weeks of pointless grind. i wanted that umbra forma for my nidus as i main it and have umbra mods on it. that umbra forma was the 1 thing i actually cared about the rest was just added to the mountain of stuff i already have.

[Firetempest]

I missed a few full weeks of challenges because... Meh, Satisfactory and other games dropped in. It ends the 15th right? I'm at lvl24 for not trying. People who really tried finished 30 like several weeks ago. So, it seems you can easily just pass up every single annoying challenge and make 30 long before its ended half trying. New players don't need the ~160 alertium for building everything in a single nightwave. It took months with normal alerts to collect helmets. Eventually after a few seasons, new players will run out of things they really want or feel they need as well. Perhaps they could drip feed credits differently, like per level, but its not that bad.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Firetempest

[Yxivi]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Limorkil said:

As always, all I hear is people who have the ability and inclination to do all Nightwave Challenges telling others that doing all the challenges is wrong and unnecessary.  I never see anyone go “I couldn’t do all the challenges and had a hard time with it but that’s perfectly ok with me. “ it’s like rich people telling poor people that all they have to do to be happier is buy x, y and z. 

I hate Nightwave for multiple reasons, one of which is that it dangles challenges and rewards in front of newer players like candy and then says “Nah ah - these are not for you” like some $&*^ in a bar who pulls the cash away when the girl behind the bar reaches for it.  

Personally, I think the more extreme challenges need to be gated in some way, either by MR or quest/star chart progression. That way people like me don’t see them and assume they can do them.  

So it's up to DE to help you with your inability to gauge your own limit?
I'm one of those people who skip tasks that I know will be difficult for me at my current state in the game because I understand that the challenges are not for everyone. Because DE is trying to give everyone something to do, so there will be task for higher end players and there are for casuals and for newbies.
And even I skipped some tasks, I'm still able to achieve rank 30 (I'm actually at the prestige tiers now). 

Srsly, some complaints are so self-centered that they forget that the game have all kinds of players like vets, hardcore, average, casuals, newbies. Surely the game needs to provide something for them and they don't really have to hide those content for the others because then we'll have people complaining "WHY IS DE HIDING CONTENT BEHIND *insert whatever stuff here*, THIS IS UNFAIR AND UNJUST!!!"

[Kaimera_Prime]

7 minutes ago, Yxivi said:

So it's up to DE to help you with your inability to gauge your own limit?
I'm one of those people who skip tasks that I know will be difficult for me at my current state in the game because I understand that the challenges are not for everyone. Because DE is trying to give everyone something to do, so there will be task for higher end players and there are for casuals and for newbies.
And even I skipped some tasks, I'm still able to achieve rank 30 (I'm actually at the prestige tiers now). 

Srsly, some complaints are so self-centered that they forget that the game have all kinds of players like vets, hardcore, average, casuals, newbies. Surely the game needs to provide something for them and they don't really have to hide those content for the others because then we'll have people complaining "WHY IS DE HIDING CONTENT BEHIND *insert whatever stuff here*, THIS IS UNFAIR AND UNJUST!!!"

how can you know your own limits if you have not tried to push beyond them. how do you know that you can not do elite missions is there a point at say 4 month were you get a achievement that says you are now ready no there is not.  you will never know if you don't try.

[Kingsmount]

60 minute missions being required by the nightwave is so bad.   No official content should overtly encourage let alone all but demand players sit in a mission more than 30 purely from a health perspective, physical let alone mental,  and then considering the toll that takes on player enjoyment of the game.  

Gilding a modular weapon is also really bad and felt impossible to me let alone being just a 3k, until I realized the last day that mote amp counts,  so thank the stars for that.

Eight bounties in the vallis at 3k is almost as bad as the hour long missions at 5k,  bounties taking between 5-15 minutes to do depending on the rank and squad,  so you might end up spending more time with the game grinding nightwave doing that than you would doing the 60,  the only saving grace being that it's broken up into 8 chunks,  but you're all but forced to do the lowest tiers otherwise it takes dramatically longer to complete.    I'm not sure how many people even regularly do bounties so there's no excuse that the expectation is to passively finish them,  the only reason I ever find myself doing bounties is for lenses once in a while,  as I have all the rare mods from vallis and they don't even sell for much.

 

 

My biggest problem with nightwave,  and bare in mind I like nightwave itself but make a distinction with this... 

Is the cred shop.

It frigging sucks.  The nightwave cred shop is TERRIBLE, it's completely abhorrent as-is.

You do NOT get nearly enough credits to get anywhere CLOSE to what you would get just doing alerts.   With alerts you're getting tons of free things every week!  What was it like 4-5 Nitain per day?  Different heads per day,  chance for MUCH needed reactors and catalysts?   NECESSARY aura mods?

I cannot stress enough how AWFUL it is that Alerts have been replaced with this crap that completely shafts newer players that don't have required needs and even if you aren't a new player the system is still inherently more anticonsumer.

You can keep your shop but there is NO REASON WHAT SO EVER THAT- that the nightwave shop should replace alerts.  Alerts and Nightwave would work perfect together.  With alerts you get random daily freebies,  with Nightwave you get to work specifically for what you want on demand-so long as you have the wolf cred...  

I'm sure a lot of people completely dismiss this complain,  as I've seen first hand,  well good for you and your older player privilege that you already have most this stuff for free from before and do not experience this struggle but it's a massive fricking pain as a newer player that started playing around week 3 of this stuff let alone months or years prior to alerts being tossed into the garbage bin.

 

[SneakyErvin]

As others have stated, your clan took the wrong approach, it is not a fault of the nightwave system.

Your clan burnt itself out due to setting out to get rank 30 asap instead of letting everyone take their time as they see fit. The game didnt demand you to run survival over and over to get all members through it like a soccer-mom. The grind really isnt there with nightwave, it takes a maximum of 3 hours per week to get it all done really.

You could have easily skipped helping members to get their 60 min survivals and S#&$ because there would still have been plenty of time to finish the 30 ranks. I mean it isnt like you try to get 100% completion and maximize prestige ranks anyways, so what the hell was the need to rush it when only around 60% is needed to reach rank 30?

Only got yourself and the clan to blame really.

[FlusteredFerret]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

Its not the content we care about. Its the resources. 

They hid the thing that most newbies want and vets don't way past the rank 30 mark of night Wave....

 

But you only get Wolf Creds past Rank 30. Why would anyone want that...let alone newbies?

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Limorkil said:

As always, all I hear is people who have the ability and inclination to do all Nightwave Challenges telling others that doing all the challenges is wrong and unnecessary.  I never see anyone go “I couldn’t do all the challenges and had a hard time with it but that’s perfectly ok with me. “ it’s like rich people telling poor people that all they have to do to be happier is buy x, y and z. 

I hate Nightwave for multiple reasons, one of which is that it dangles challenges and rewards in front of newer players like candy and then says “Nah ah - these are not for you” like some $&*^ in a bar who pulls the cash away when the girl behind the bar reaches for it.  

Personally, I think the more extreme challenges need to be gated in some way, either by MR or quest/star chart progression. That way people like me don’t see them and assume they can do them.  

I went into Nightwave fully aware I wouldn't be able to do many of the Elite challenges and I've always been completely fine with that.

The second part of that sentence is a ridiculous comparison: the fact is Warframe is built in a way that offers a wide range of content to suit most players, all the way from newbies to veterans (okay there are issues with "endgame content" but thats another argument).

If you can't accept that fact, thats your problem...not the game's.

 

Hell I still can't do Sorties and Arbitrations. I just don't have the gear to do them. But you don't see me complaining about it...

I can't do the Profit Taker mission as I've not maxed my SU standing. Again - I'm not complaining about it.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by FlusteredFerret

[Yxivi]

5 minutes ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

how can you know your own limits if you have not tried to push beyond them. how do you know that you can not do elite missions is there a point at say 4 month were you get a achievement that says you are now ready no there is not.  you will never know if you don't try.

And this is why hiding the tough missions to others is a bad idea. Some missions are worth a try, others, you don't really have to try to know you can't do it. The profit-taker challenge for example, I don't have to try it to know that I'm still undergeared for this challenge, it's the same with the Hydrolist challenge.

[Kaimera_Prime]

when

8 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

But you only get Wolf Creds past Rank 30. Why would anyone want that...let alone newbies?

 

I went into Nightwave fully aware I wouldn't be able to do many of the Elite challenges and I've always been completely fine with that.

The second part of that sentence is a ridiculous comparison: the fact is Warframe is built in a way that offers a wide range of content to suit most players, all the way from newbies to veterans (okay there are issues with "endgame content" but thats another argument).

If you can't accept that fact, thats your problem...not the game's.

 

Hell I still can't do Sorties and Arbitrations. I just don't have the gear to do them. But you don't see me complaining about it...

I can't do the Profit Taker mission as I've not maxed my SU standing. Again - I'm not complaining about it.

 

 

when was the last time you tried to to sorties and arbitration missions even week of progress with info on what to aim for its possible to make a lot of progress

 

[Kaimera_Prime]

11 minutes ago, Yxivi said:

And this is why hiding the tough missions to others is a bad idea. Some missions are worth a try, others, you don't really have to try to know you can't do it. The profit-taker challenge for example, I don't have to try it to know that I'm still undergeared for this challenge, it's the same with the Hydrolist challenge.

i have been in plenty of eidolon groups with people using mote amps there ready for the 1st one but they signed up for all 3 as for the orb mothers 1 is behind a rep grind the other is just a mechanic fight but people that are not ready still try to do it to see if they can.

[Test-995]

Did you know, not  getting all the reward is MUCH worse than ignoring rewards and playing game for fun.

at least it seems like so.

 

[Yxivi]

9 minutes ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

i have been in plenty of eidolon groups with people using mote amps there ready for the 1st one but they signed up for all 3 as for the orb mothers 1 is behind a rep grind the other is just a mechanic fight but people that are not ready still try to do it to see if they can.

That could be a little bit of ignorance. The mote amp for the Teralyst is probably still...acceptable. But if you wanna do the other 2 Eidolons, you're pretty much expecting a carry run if you're only using a mote amp, and probably first time as well, coz you won't be using the mote amp if you've been hunting Eidolons, because well you'd have enough standing to rank up in The Quills and craft a better amp. IDK but I don't like being carried around so when I go for something I make sure I'm prepared and well-equipped for it. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Yxivi

[Jiminez_Burial]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Limorkil said:

As always, all I hear is people who have the ability and inclination to do all Nightwave Challenges telling others that doing all the challenges is wrong and unnecessary.  I never see anyone go “I couldn’t do all the challenges and had a hard time with it but that’s perfectly ok with me. “ it’s like rich people telling poor people that all they have to do to be happier is buy x, y and z. 

You assume that we've done them all...  I haven't.  I couldn't be bothered with the Eidolon hunt the first week, I've often not been bothered doing the dailies, and I haven't bothered to do any 60 minute/40wave challenge after the first week they appeared.  I'm rank 41 now and I never even farmed the fugitives/wolf like some people have.  And that rich/poor person argument is total bullocks, the challenges don't even take that long to complete (since I assume the resource you're comparing to money is time) and apart from the ones gated by refreshes (complete 3 sorties for example) I often complete all the challenges within 4 hours.  4 hours for pretty much ALL of the challenges each week.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Limorkil said:

I hate Nightwave for multiple reasons, one of which is that it dangles challenges and rewards in front of newer players like candy and then says “Nah ah - these are not for you” like some $&*^ in a bar who pulls the cash away when the girl behind the bar reaches for it.

So are you also not okay with racing games that allow you to see what the full car selection is when you first start, knowing you don't have the resources to buy that one car you love or the events for which it is rewarded?  The whole 'I see it so it must be for me' mentality is incredibly infuriating for me because no one seems to have self control.  If something is visible to these people it seems they will effectively damage themselves clawing after it rather than thinking 'no, I might not need that'.  The least they could do in this situation is a little bit of a google search to become informed.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Limorkil said:

Personally, I think the more extreme challenges need to be gated in some way, either by MR or quest/star chart progression. That way people like me don’t see them and assume they can do them.  

HAHAHA, and then we will get a resurgence of people complaining about gated challenges.  You remember the first week Profit Taker was a challenge?  You remember the utter s**t storm that rose up regarding it being gated behind max SU standing?  Maybe people should attempt it in order to get better, to improve, and if that isn't enough then they should have the mindfulness to think 'Well I'm unable to beat this, maybe I'll go do something else'.  Just because people are unable to complete something doesn't mean they're being insulted by the game.  Game progression exists for a reason whether it be through gear upgrades that assist the skills a player has (in which case being skilled or having the willingness to improve will always give an advantage) or be it entirely through the improvement of the players skill such as with CSGO ("Your character doesn't get better, YOU do").  In Warframe's case it's mainly gear.  That's just how it is for a Looter Shooter.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

4 hours ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

Night wave destroyed this. The grind required to get the useful items was a grind so bad that even with my more experienced members helping new players this was a massive toll on the clans leadership. 60 min missions that would be ruined by one ass hole basically meant having me and my officers having to spend hours on end in 60 min missions with lower MR ranked members.

This isn't Nightwave's fault, why are you allowing an A hole to be in your clan? I'm a clan leader myself and each week of Nightwave I've seen players on discord organising missions and basically blitzing Nightwave the 1st day of every new week, there's been no issues of toxic clan members.

 

4 hours ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

All of this has resulted I an immediate and massive drop off of people playing the very week the rank 30 was hit by most members. This includes myself. Night wave is not new content its just daily missions linked to a massive grind. There is no faction or syndicate behind it. hell all of the items you can buy with wolf credits could have been set as rewards for a lotus specific syndicate that could have had things added to it with each new Warframe that was released Alt helms for example.

I hope that with new content that comes out my clan will recover from the burn out from this event but I fear that a lot of the new players will not return thanks to the grind that was basically mandatory to get the umbra forma that every one of the veteran members are after and the cosmetics of the wolf armor that the full event was based around.

Also Nora night got massively annoying after the 1st day. i am not "the once and future bad ass" for doing a dam emote. this needs a mute option placed on the night wave window. It just drives people up the wall when she talks now.

TLDR Night wave has killed my clan through burnout.

Honestly just sounds like you're not condensing the tasks enough, I haven't spent more than 3 hours to do the entire weeks challenges on any week. You are actually better off than many players who aren't in clans and are having to go to recruitment or even pub, to do many of the missions.

[Chappie]

11 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

This isn't Nightwave's fault, why are you allowing an A hole to be in your clan? I'm a clan leader myself and each week of Nightwave I've seen players on discord organising missions and basically blitzing Nightwave the 1st day of every new week, there's been no issues of toxic clan members.

 

Honestly just sounds like you're not condensing the tasks enough, I haven't spent more than 3 hours to do the entire weeks challenges on any week. You are actually better off than many players who aren't in clans and are having to go to recruitment or even pub, to do many of the missions.

Can we stop with the proverbial "victim blaming".   

Yes or No...did the new nightwave system cause a negative impact on a non trivial percent of the player base?   Based upon the feedback here, reddit and numerous places...the answer is yes.   I did the whole nightwave thing.  I hit 30 at week 6.    Did I feel burnout...no.    But at the end did I understand that other could and what they were going through once I hit that rank 30...yes.    

At this point...you might as well tell people in poor neighborhood to "just don't go out, you can avoid the bad people that way" or "just move to a better place".   Neither of those solutions actually solve the problem...they just put a lid on a S#&$ty situation so you don't have to look at it.  

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, FlusteredFerret said:

But you only get Wolf Creds past Rank 30. Why would anyone want that...let alone newbies?

Potatoes... obviously..... lack of Potatoes is the bane of every new player since they tend to spend their precious resources on Rubbish gear.

 

[YazMatazO]

🤔

Don't even read what the challenges are lately. Still getting progress done. 

[(XBOX)Kuljack]

Trolls have been around, are around, always will be around. Any argument based on an experience dealing with public parties holds no ground. It's not that your situation doesn't suck or isn't unfortunate that you have to experience poor player edict, it's just that you cannot set any expectations when you put yourself in a situation where none have been set.

Your issue with trolls using a life support can be immediately remedied by just recruiting within clan/alliance chat and the recruit chat. You may still get a troll or the one player who was trying to pick up the kuva canister to put into the life support station that just happened to drop right next to it and accidentally starts the life support instead of picking up said canister, but honestly you still get to walk away from the mission with a nice chunk of kuva. Roll a riven, maybe you get some groll to play with or sell, maybe not. It's a video game, either have fun doing it or take a break.

People only burnout when they force themselves to do something they don't want to. DE was smart, they made it so you didn't need to do every challenge to get every reward. People have lives, they have preferences of content to play, some don't have friends... many challenges are present for players to do every challenge and it's not even required. We likely won't get anything for our rank so we're just crying over spilled milk.

I've avoided all conservation challenges because, personally, I don't enjoy that content and I've been done with nightwave rewards for 3 weeks now.

[darkbrick]

Il y a 5 heures, Jiminez_Burial a dit :

You could have skipped those 60min missions entirely and still achieved the 30 ranks.  Seems like the burnout is because you either didn't hear about only needing 60-70% completion of the challenges, or you're a victim of FOMO which comes down to an issue with you.

i rage quit for 2 weeks because of those 2 missions and still can get to level 30
too bad i can't get more nitain extract like in the past when alerts system still exist

i hate this nightwave system..

[(XBOX)Shodian]

7 minutes ago, darkbrick said:

too bad i can't get more nitain extract like in the past when alerts system still exist

When you prestige every level after 30 you get 15 credits. After a while you can still get Nitain.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Nightwave didn't burn me out..What's burning me out is this sudden push on the 1% drop chances on frames and other wanted items behind a maxed syndicate standing or having to get so many mcGuffins in order or reach a certain time limit over and over again to get a chance at said 1% drop rate...I swear the Ash System has gone full Unicorn..and now this little monster it's attached to is not even dropping helms and chassis..

That's what's burning me out and making me scrub down my cargo racks on my Cobra in Elite Dangerous...

Edited May 1, 2019 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[-CdG-Zilchy]

4 hours ago, Xavori said:

The challenges should be that, challenges.  Make it something like 'Finish a spy mission in less than 10 minutes without setting off any alarms" or "Get a 3x melee multiplier and hold it for 5 minutes".  Things that are the exact opposite of "Do some normal mission but just for a really long time with people you sent a friend request to just before starting."

While I agree they should be proper challenges I hope you're having a laugh about spy missions in under 10 minutes. Under 3-4 minutes would be much better.