Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

(PS4)RenovaKunumaru

Wukong rework first impressions

Recommended Posts

I don't really care for the drama of this post but this one part caught my eye so i have a couple of notes

15 minutes ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

1. Taunts for you and the clone, clone is shown to have a health bar there was no meantion of it having scaled attack or defenses like Atlas 4  or Equinox aug also the duration is short and just because it can hold the opposite weapon you doesn't make it any better it's just a CO applier.

2. could not be shown but it will not heal while invulnerable as heard or displayed who knows it can change or retain it's 75% restoration and energy multipler.

3. I have already gone over but if you are that desperate on keeping this ability then it would go great with the passive I mentioned for defy that you mocked earlier 

4. clone can also use in tandem with Wukong this I don't mind but isn't really that impressive, lock behind a Baruuk styled rage meter which is contradictory to his kit and lore and why you praised his 3 and 1

1-  Atlas 4 scales off of strength and equinox's duality is based off of health/armor/shield mods. Why they wouldn't apply one of these to wukongs clones doesn't make much sense but it wasn't shown on devstream so anything said about it's scaling is baseless speculation and shouldnt be said. Also we don't know the duration of his 1 as it's still WiP so saying it's short is baseless speculation. Thirdly not only are CO appliers actually used for certain builds in game (this isn't me calling them good but they are far from bad) but being able to shoot a modded primary/secondary while the clone hits with a min maxed melee is good. Or better yet the clone is shooting a min maxed gun with 100% accuracy b/c specters have that while you hit enemies with a min maxed melee.

2 - I've said this before but nobody knows the details of how this will work so saying that it's good or bad is once again baseless speculation ( i'm not saying you particular are saying this just in general)

3-Once again they showed a very small clip of the changes to his 3 and failed to provide any information otherwise, no details , no specifics, just that it goes faster and gives extra crit.

4-All they've said was that it's going to use a baruuk styled rage meter. A lot of people took this to mean they're locking his 4 behind a meter but that may not be the case. Again i've said this before but if they tied the range to a meter rather than the combo counter it'd actually be a welcome buff to his 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Violet_Xe said:

Look, I don't deny that Iron Jab has potential. When I look at trying to create reworks, I always try to find a way to make the current ability fit. but not for my own benefit, it's so that DE doesn't have to make new animations. I only recently started to post on the forums about rework concepts because I got bored waiting on the jovian update. I've found ways to make fireball and tesla viable. With all the potential I can see in iron Jab, I also see how easy it would be to allows iron jab to be added to primal fury as a combo by say channel and chargettack for a quick cast of "iron jab" but it's while Primal Fury is out.

I'm not opposed to keeping Iron Jab, but I am opposed to it being kept as a first ability. I can def see how it can be made to be useful, but not to the use of spores, or mallet, or heck even sonic boom from banshee. And that's an ability we banshee only use when were in a bad spot or have built to strip armor. Iron Jab just simply put doesn't have the funcionality. Yes it gives you an escape, but the thing with Wu Kong is for a warframe that is tanky and in folklore having a key point being "doesn't die" means the warframe shouldn't have an escape in the first place unless it makes sense in the trickster sort of way.

Whenever I look at how we can make a warframe ability better is I look at several things. I see more ways to use cloud walker than iron jab.
Is there any reason why this first ability exists and does it mix with the passive? well in this case no, because normal melee weapons can attack at a much farther range. If you want a large aoe knockdown from a far away range, glaives do that just fine and without any energy cost. 
Is there a charge to it? if so can we do something during the charge? in this case no there isn't, but you could add a charge to add a sweep but that doesn't do much but knock down enemies in a cone. Frost has a way better cc cone than that and with an augment it's effetcs last way longer. Moreso Wu Kong would need that less than Frost.
Is there some sort of channeling mechanic we can add? if so what buff would I give? well theres no channeling buff so, this doesn't matter for iron jab.
Can we give it some sort of scaling damage or secondary defense stripping, well... not without breaking it as the first ability which removes the need for Primal Fury in the first place, all the more reason to add it to Primal Fury.
Can we add something to the ability for added CC or Mobility? Well yes, yes we can. by making it a sweep you have cc but... if you're a tank with a rage build why would you want to cc enemies to not attack you. For mobility we can totally add that, but without any sort of side buff the ability would be forgotten, to point out examples, valkyr's ripline. This was forgotten and easily tossed aside because there wasn't a reason for it. It drags a SINGLE TARGET to you, or can make you have some semblence of control by sloppily tossing you to the enemy. Now we could add a finisher opening on the first abilty say Iron Jab into an enemy and appear at the location opening them for a finishere but then... what happens to ash? That's his thing. Wu Kong, and all other warframes should not mobility finishing abilities. Nezha's old halo before it became a damage tool and very quick and easily controlled teleportation ability was never used unless you wanted to self heal a small amount. Zephyr one, it has so much funcionality and has been merged with zephyrs abilities and buffed several times, and yet it's still forgotten. Mobility will help, but it'll be very situational at best due to the restaints of needing to respect another frames space.
Is there any synergy with his other abilities? If not, can ask DE to give synergy?  Put simply, no. theres none and the ability is too expensive for a simple 1 cc and knockdown ability in this day and age. Why not tonkor them down. Can we add synergy, well defy? hmmmm nope. cloud walker, maybe by pushing yourself into the air cloud walker can become free but that pushes you away from targets and people dislike cloud walker anyways.
Can we make him a support styled frame with this ability? If so how? To fit his theme, no, theres no way to make him help his team. Wu Kong is a selfish person who's got an ego. He will not help his team. Yes it would be funny to poke your allies like you suggest but, why? does this fit with him no, he's got the cloud walking boots, not his allies.
Would extra abilities be better, if so can we add a scroll wheel or simply make a completely different ability to replace the one in question. Well if it would fit his theme better, give him more flexibility, a unique identity with clones that he can summon with unique mechanics, then yes. Give him a different ability, maybe a scroll wheel. For Wu Kong, why would you give him a wheel. It's not like his thing is being flexible, it's being tricky or being tanky. Unlike Ivara, Vauban, Khora, and Wisp, who specialize in being flexible and have themes based around tricks and chaos, Wu Kong doesn't fit that idea. A scroll wheel wouldn't fit his theme and it's unneeded work for DE.

They've already created clones and most of the community sees it as better that clones replaced Iron Jab. They can make this better by adding some control to the clones. the more influence over the clones we have the less AI coding DE has to do. Again an example being atraus from God of War. you control what would normally be a stupid AI by controlling what weapons he uses and when to attack. You can modify and upgrade his gear. DE can copy this by doing what I said. Charge Attacks while in primal Fury would cause all clones to teleport and smack the target you charge attacked, even if from a distance. That would means you can recall your clones and force them onto a specific target. Direct Control means less AI support is needed. Remember i'm not someone who outright says yeah trash this nobody uses it, I actually do think of ways to improve an ability with the idea of "remove the ability" as a last resort option. If DE already has this animation and stuff don though for Wu Kong, all we can do is accept this and build off of it.

I'm on the side of removing Iron Jab. I feel sorry you want Iron jab to be kept and you're getting ignored. And I can see why you wouldn't want it to be removed. But DE will listen to the majority, as they have in the past. this is honestly a good change for Wu Kong and if handled properly can make Wu Kong the second warframe with "minion" build viability. the other being nekros. Clones, AI, and Specters are mostly unexplored in this game and I'd like it if DE actually focused more on this. This rework may hold more benefits than just a rework. If they actually work on the AI they can place that on operatives, defense targets, and even some enemies and assassins. I fully support his new first ability, even if it's a long shot.


 

Wukong not flexible... Madness. Down to even the way he fights is nothing but adaptive/flexible. 

Just because you can defy death doesn't mean you should. Wukong is impulsive but not to the point he pointlessly put himself in danger. 

Cycling using clones attacks/swarms/traps/ambushes is nowhere out of character for him. o.e

  • Clones home in on a target... hm... *looks at enemy marked by iron jab/sweep by wukong and other clones* Nvm dmg boost when used in conjunction with Primal Fury active or Primal Fury doing more dmg to marked targets being an option. Or the obvious fact you'd have the clones being able to use it and Primal fury themselves o.o
  • Allies include his clones too so that's not out of the norm. Even more so since the clones could launch each other.
  • Since it's wukong we're talking here it doesn't have to be said that stuff is for him only. As you said he's very selfish and that's fine. 
  • Tricky and tanky... alright so we'll just ignore the fact he's dmg dealer in lore too. Let's ignore the fact he learned magic while learning his shapeshifting and after as well. 
  • Lastly ofc the sweep is doing dmg too not just cc. Dmg+cc is king. As for it's actual dmg there's the fact you could have it apply procs and scale off what Iron Staff is packing. Meaning no more stat stick on wukong.

Can be used for an escape doesn't mean that's all it's good for x: Mobility can be used offensively too case in point with valkyr and volt. Unlike them however they have to actually run to what they attack. Vs being shot towards whatever is behind you and smashing their faces in. 

As stated before how, they did the technique itself is garbo. Heck even the range limit they put on it and Iron Staff was stupid beyond reason. Cloud walker was a high grade trash ability regardless how much they try to buff it or other. On clones upon death/launched tho it gives those traits life again and makes it vastly more functional. 

Current state of cloud walker:

  1. turn into a cloud
  2. I set off traps despite being a cloud indoors. 
  3. I can't do anything while like this. 
  4. i used shapeshifting for this?!,
  5. Cast/uncast animation is stupidly sluggish w/o casting speed mods, even then it's not much better.
  6. Stun is so short you can barely even make use of it for finishers.
  7. Slow asf flight speed, and serves no real purpose outside it can fly.

Even with the fact supposedly getting buffs when you're in cloud a long time that's a mess on it's own cause it's disengaging asf. Only time that's excusable is for traps but it can't even do that which just makes it way more worthless than Jab x: On the fundamental level it falls flat as an ability at all. 

Meanwhile yes one could put jab into the primal fury stance but that kills all utility behind it even existing. Charge attacks aren't very responsive and have a long enough delay that you wouldn't bother.

Also ability number is irrelevant. It's part of the kit. If it's good/trash/meh it's on the ability not because it's the first or w/e

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Inb4 the rework give wukong's 4 an infinitely scaling reach, then he would become top tier nuke in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, HolyDemon00 said:

Inb4 the rework give wukong's 4 an infinitely scaling reach, then he would become top tier nuke in the game.

It doesn't go through walls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just moving this post to correct location

This is my idea i have more reworks and ill post the rest of them if this one gets okay feedback

Wukong

Passives- eye of truth enemy location and weaknesses are exposed when in melee range and all hits done by wukong contribute to combo counter i.e. secondary and primary weapon shots not tick dmg or status effects for primary its 10 shots per melee hit for the counter and 5 for secondary

1st ability - a 3 part staff combo first button press performs a 360 sweep in a counter clockwise motion the second press performs a rising strike starting from the bottom left rising to the right suspending all enemies caught in the cone like hitzonejn?n, in mid air for a brief moment the last buttj?n.on press allows wukong to slam his staff onto the ground dealing double dmg to all suspende  d enemies.

When ryui jingu bang(iron staff first ability name) is  activated while primal fury is active you will have  an option to extend or expand your iron staff the initial cost being 50 energy and all other extend or expansions being 25 when you extend your iron staff range attack speed and crit chance is increased when you expand your iron staff dmg and crit dmg is increased. When extend is activated while looking at the ground it will launch you higher than a bullet jump when you activate expand while in the air you fall faster and perform a ground slam upon looking at the ground

2nd ability - Defy wukong summons 5 clones from his own hairs which divide his total stats amongst themselves every time wukong takes fatal dmg a clone dies his health is restored and the clones become stronger as the divison amongst his total stats become smaller with the clone cap being at 50% of his total stats This ability resets upon death of all clones.
(Defy makes a headband expand out from his head) Wukong can dismiss clones by aiming at the target and pressing the ability again to grant himself health at the cost of 50 energy if iron staff is activated and you are dismissing the last 2 clones

Clone stat counter

5 clones 20% 

4 clones 25%

3 clones 33.33%

2 clones 50%

1 clone 50%
Augment - wukong summons only 1 clone a perfect copy of himself equal stats that can access all of his abilities(minus defy) shares the same melee counter as you and contributes to it. When wukong is in melee range of his copy the clone will proceed to copy his melee inputs. The flat damage multiplier upon the summon is 3.0 death or dismissal of his perfect copy is 6.0

3rd ability monkey king mode all dmg is multiplied at a rate of 1.5 with an additive 0.5 + the previous multiplier total per clone death. Only when primal fury is activated. When primal fury isnt activated dmg is only multiplied at a flat rate of 2 with no correlation to defy and you gain increased movement parkour speed. With only 5 clones this ability power chain progresses as 

1.5

3.5

6.0

10.0

16.5

With these changes this would leave one ability out, cloud walker, my proposal for this ability is 2 options option 1 being fill this in as wukongs regular 3rd ability and make this disappear upon activating your ultimate ability so that way your clone has 3 abilities to access rather than 2 since monkey king mode is only exclusive to wukong despite the clones being able to gain summon benefits to it indirectly and it being solely tied to the presence and dismissal of them. My second proposal would be to make wukongs cloud walker an exclusive transportation to wukong moddable by k-drive mods. 

Thanks for reading and have a nice day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

Because while your in cloud while your movement speed is increased not when you get out,

... so why not just use your cloud to get ahead of the competition, then kill people? I fail to see the issue here.

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

You may have a better dps frame around in the team also just because he gets a crit buff doesn't mean he is a new dps frame. Nidus got a crit Aug for his 1 while it increases his damage, he already deals out tons of damage anyway not to mention he has scaling.

Wait, so Nidus's 1 augment didn't make him a DPS frame... because he's already a DPS frame? What? How does this prove that Wukong won't be a frame capable of dealing good damage?

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

And the stealth wasn't shown to get any better also unlike the change to Volt's 3 Wukong still has a set stun radius of 8m, a drain, a distance for drain, has a start-up and ending animation and invisibility doesn't seem like a satisfying ability to use. The stealth gameplay excuse is poor because you can just parkour and use your operator.

Wait, so literally all stealth frames are poor design now just because one can just parkour or go into Operator mode? What? How is Wukong's stealth bad when he gets 3-dimensional movement on top of invisibility and the stun? Sure, it's a drain, but then so is Defy, and Defy doesn't look like it's going to remain a drain effect.

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

Also Wukong is only tanky because of defy and it's toggle maybe they can do something or maybe they'll fail, but not only is defy keeping him relevant but it's his only reason for being a tank He has no other strengths.

Isn't the new Defy also supposed to make him durable, though? Or did I watch the wrong dev stream?

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

Look I'm tired of the wall of text so I'll keep it short this time. You asked what defy has any business doing there and what it does it based on his feat to defy death itself and stay alive how ever long he wants an no it's not the most interactive ability and it's definitely unique in regard to the other abilities, yes I don't want defy to leave the kit because I can see it getting potential in this rework like an aoe buff per death, while Wukong is a "tank" he has mastery over magic and other feats D.e can draw upon instead of the trite ideas I'm seeing now.

If the only reason Defy has a reason to stay in Wukong's kit is because of its name and function as a durability steroid, then literally any ability with those same two characteristics would be just as valid, including the new Defy. Also, how exactly would gratuitious buffs on self-heal fix an ability that's the clearest case in the game of power without gameplay?

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

It not going to be anything like Harrow's crit buff or Nidus's augment, It takes you out of gameplay, it has a start-up and ending animation, the range is small for the stun, the duration of the stun is small, In an area where you can have the option to use arch wing how is this even an argument? Of course you'll pick arch wing it just takes you from point a to point b. cloud walker will not, It has a duration and relies on energy and doors  don't even open that fast indoors, also parkour in not useless your  interpretation was wrong. Parkour is superior to cloud walker do not make anymore arguments for cloud walker it is a poor ability. 

Except Archwing can only be used in Archwing missions and two other maps? Most missions you won't have Archwing, yet you'll still be able to use Cloud Walker, and the fact that it enables flight means you're going to be reaching certain locations faster than people using parkour, especially with bonus movement speed.

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

I have already given my response to cloud Walker's inadequacy. If I did not care about Wukong I would have deleted him, not spent money on him, wouldn't have came to the forums to pitch ideas for a rework that would prove satisfactory to people other than my self, and would not have this back and forth with you if I did not care. And yes Wukong is easy not one frame in this game is difficult to grasp. So your demeaning of my skills is rather sad to say the least because you have shown you do not care.

You spent money on him... only to loudly proclaim that you literally only care about Defy, the most boring part of his kit, and want the rest to be changed to something entirely different that only you personally approve of. It's also why you've chosen to pre-emptively trash any actual attempt to bring him to a better spot, and favored the status quo while in full knowledge that Wukong is not in a good spot now. In other words, you would rather see Wukong stay in a terrible state than allow even the possibility of him improving for the better, and so because you don't actually care about the frame, you only care about Defy. Many frames are easy, but only few frames are essentially incapable of dying, with Wukong being one of them: the fact that you focus so much on the ability behind this, and place particular emphasis on how it lets Wukong cheat death, speaks volumes. Meanwhile, I suggest that we should perhaps give this rework a chance before declaring it unworkably bad, just in case it improves Wukong, yet apparently this means I "do not care" about him. Interesting.

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

I have already gave my reasoning for why this ability is poor above, yes this ability has unique implementation, all of Wukong's abilities post rework and WIP rework are congruent to his theme and lore, Inaros can do this as well and is more appealing. I have gave more reasoning in the paragraph above.

But you didn't explain jack, you just whined about how the stun radius was too short for your liking, and how Wukong couldn't attack while stealthed, which is a non-issue. If anything, it sounds like you want the ability to be stronger, not reworked, which is precisely what is being done to it.

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

If you would like to see what I would propose let me know so I can show you what I mean.

Go ahead.

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

The problem is it's poor. for now I do not know if it will get better or worse but from what I've seen if this was in-game this rework wouldn't outshine the current kit by much. And the 4 from what I heard on the devstream was Barruk's meter lock and just melee 3.0 which is counter intuitive to Wukong's lore and theme.

But how can you make any of these judgments? Even right now, you are admitting that you are only basing this on conjecture and hearsay: why should anyone take you seriously, then, if you're acting this offended when you don't even know half the facts? How exactly do you expect to convince anyone at all if the only way of doing so is for them to invent a whole bunch of things unsupported by fact or reality? You're allowed to not like the rework, but exclaiming that it's a nerf, when you don't even know the numbers on the new abilities, is ridiculous, and discredits your entire position.

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

Rebecca saying " so if your upset that defy is I assure you that the other 3 abilities all getting significantly buffed will make up for it" now from what we've seen

1. Taunts for you and the clone, clone is shown to have a health bar there was no meantion of it having scaled attack or defenses like Atlas 4  or Equinox aug also the duration is short and just because it can hold the opposite weapon you doesn't make it any better it's just a CO applier.

So because Rebecca didn't specifically mention scaled attack or defense... you're just going to assume that it has neither? Interesting. Also, how are free status procs weak in any respect?

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

2. could not be shown but it will not heal while invulnerable as heard or displayed who knows it can change or retain it's 75% restoration and energy multipler.

... except it also gives invulnerability, so what's the issue? Where is the nerf?

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

3. I have already gone over but if you are that desperate on keeping this ability then it would go great with the passive I mentioned for defy that you mocked earlier 

How? Your suggested passive was terrible, no need to drag Cloud Walker in with it.

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

4. clone can also use in tandem with Wukong this I don't mind but isn't really that impressive, lock behind a Baruuk styled rage meter which is contradictory to his kit and lore and why you praised his 3 and 1

It's not "really that impressive"... why? Is it not impressive to swing around two massive staves at once? Also, how in the blazes is this "contradictory to his kit and lore"? How does it contradict what I've said before? It feels like "lore" is just this vague excuse you throw out for anything about the new Wukong that you don't like, irrespective of how it actually relates to the story of Sun Wukong.

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

and is just improved partial because of Melee 3.0 changes

And this improvement is bad, because... ?

21 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

if you really do care about Wukong then I won't fight you on that, and we can agree to disagree and I would like to see a kit you proposed.

So are you or are you not accusing me of not caring about Wukong, then? Because I too have participated in the threads here, given feedback on the proposals, and unambiguously supported a Wukong rework to let him do far more than he can do now, and become more interesting in so doing. He may not be my main frame, but I do care about him and want him to improve drastically, as he has a ton of potential that has yet to be fulfilled.

If you really want to see my take on Wukong, off the top of my head:

  • Passive - Stone Landing: For every second Wukong is off the ground, he gains 10% increased damage while on the ground, dissipating after 5 seconds unless he leaves the ground again.
  • 1 - Hair of the King: Wukong summons a clone of himself with his health, armor and shields, and the weapon opposite his with 50 / 100 / 150 / 200% bonus weapon damage, which he can direct by tapping the ability at an enemy or location, and lasts 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 seconds. Wukong can also target his clone directly or hold-cast to swap places with it at any time. Costs 25 Energy.
  • 2 - Defy: Wukong forces all enemies within 20 meters to direct their attention towards himself and his clone, while both become immune to all damage for 3 seconds. After the end of the duration, he and his clone gain bonus armor equal to 150 / 200 / 250 / 300% of the absorbed damage. Reactivate the ability to turn Wukong and his clone to stone, causing both to drop to the ground, become immune to all damage and crowd control on the way down, and throwing all enemies within 10 meters vertically into the air, while dealing Impact damage equal to the bonus armor (consuming it in the process) and 5000% of the fall distance. Cost 50 Energy.
  • 3 - Cloud Walker: Wukong and his clone transform into an untargetable and invisible cloud that can fly at 125 / 150 / 175 / 200% movement speed, draining 5 Energy per second while doing so. Attacking or using another ability ends Cloud Walker's effects immediately. Activating or deactivating the ability stuns enemies within 10 meters for 5 seconds, opening them up to melee finishers, and passing through enemies while in the cloud does the same.
  • 4 - Primal Fury: Wukong draws his Iron Staff, draining 3 Energy per second. For every accumulated second of Stone Landing, the Staff's size and range are increased by 5 / 10 / 15 / 20%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is Wukong? Well when I look at his current abilities...

Passive- Tenacity - longer combo duration

Iron Jab - a simple knockback ability (like nekros), if it does not kill the enemy outright.

Defy - "immortality".

Cloud walker- an energy drain transformation stealth ability, slow movement.

Primal Fury- exalted staff.

To me, Wukong is a melee focused tank warrior with little-to-no team support. Now when I look at DE's proposed changes ...

Proposed
Passive: Tenacity - longer combo duration. Will this survive?

Hair of the king (new) - creates one mirror clone.

Defy - "adjusted," honestly we do not know to what exactly right now.

Cloud walker- an energy drain transformation stealth ability, slow movement (just a bit faster than current).

Primal fury- exalted staff with Baruuk-like mechanic meter for combos and attacks.

Sounds like he is still a melee focused tank warrior with little-to-no team support, unless DE changes Defy to be an amazing team focus ability. My main issue with Wukong currently is he is one playstyle, not that this a bad thing but the great thing about Warframe is that we (players) can build these frames to fit different roles, most times. The best example is most of our healer frames (Oberon, Trinity and now Wisp) can double as tank frames, and some of our support frames (i.e. Equinox) can be adjusted to double as damage dealing nukes.  I have always felt Wukong can only fit one role and these proposed changes sounded as it continues this format.

So of course I have concerns on the proposed changes.

Iron jab is/was an ok ability. It does (did) its job, but Hair of the king I'm iffy about. I like the idea of clones but I see clones as a more passive and utility (decoy-like) ability particularly how companion AI currently works. I would suggest having hair of the king to replace Defy. Also the melee/gun switch is neat and shows off DE programming prowess but it's a bit gimmicky.

Defy is overpowered and I agree with DE decision to change this ability, we do not know exactly what is proposed for Defy, simply that we are probably no longer immortals.

Cloudwalker is not that useful but I love the new visuals. Cloudwalker's transformation has a long animation sequence and like Hydroid's undertow ability, Cloudwalker feels too idle.

Now of course, I have suggestion and my hope is to hopefully expand Wukong's versatility without completely taking away his melee focused set up. So here is my proposed set up in a nut shell:

Passive: tenacity - remains the same providing longer combo duration.

First, add a new first ability that generates meter: Iron Protector (channeling/toggle) - Wukong's Iron staff spins his staff in front of him taunting enemies, reflecting projectile damage back to attackers. Reflected damage adds to generates meter. By adding a basic defense ability (like Iron Protector) Wukong can use this help protect during gun-play and provide some protection to allies and defense targets. Having this ability taunt enemies have enemies add to meter that will enhance Wukong's other abilities. Yay Synergy! Ability is one-handed and allows Wukong to use his secondary like Volt's shield and turns off when Wukong attacks with his melee weapon.

Cloud walker (activate)- I would recommend moving this to the 2nd slot and reworking this ability to provide an AOE group stealth as long allies stay within the cloud range. The ability could creep in size in the same manner as Baruuk's Lull ability. Cloudwalker would not have Wukong transform into the cloud, instead making the cloud-transformation into an augment.

Hair of the King (activate) - Personally I would prefer Hair of the King ability to replace Defy; by having Wukong create X number of clones (specter-decoys) for limited duration by consuming a counter (similar to Nidus's mechanic). Move this to the 3rd slot and so long as there is meter Wukong can cast HK multiple times to create a small army of Wukongs. Why get rid of Defy? This ability sounds chaotic, which fits wukong mythical character a being of fun and chaos but I'd prefer to a Nidus approach to invincibility where I'm rewarded with immortality by fighting rather press button for god-mode.

Primal fury (toggle) - exalted staff; remains the same as it was proposed in the Dev-Stream.

Now for the proposed baruuk-like meter, I would rather go for a Nidus-like meter instead and call it: Defiance, except the meter builds energy as Wukong does melee damage or blocks damage or via his the Iron Protector ability, then whenever Wukong receives fatal damage X amount of charges is consumed to provide Wukong with a short duration invincibility buff.

That's it. A melee focused clone-summoning warrior with a couple utility options for better group support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-05-24 at 9:32 PM, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Giving Wukong a specter ability is worthless. We all know how effective AI specters are in Warframe. 

It's a "free" specter though that uses your abilities, weapons, hopefully if done right having the same stats and mod effects as your Wukong, and even if "worthless", you can cast it again for little energy cost, without having to craft anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, SnuggleBuckets said:

It's a "free" specter though that uses your abilities, weapons, hopefully if done right having the same stats and mod effects as your Wukong, and even if "worthless", you can cast it again for little energy cost, without having to craft anything.

Again... I have to say this but AI isn't that bad. feel like people keep forgetting that CONTROL allows even specters to be valuble. An example i've already given is God of War, atreus. You can switch his gear, upgrade him, control his damage type, and tell him when to attack. Kinda like what were going to have Wu Kong. It's a free specter that it feels like DE is going to add some functionality to.

I've already said that they could tie in combos using his clones for Primal Fury. Charge attacks force all clones to teleport and slam their primal fury sticks onto the target you're aiming at. Maybe even preforming a finisher. Just adding these simple little things make Wu Kong's clones far more effective than ANY other specter in the game aside form the Ancient Healer who serves an entirely different purpose. Control means the AI doesn't matter. If you're a good Wu Kong, you can properly control these clones and make the most out of them. Heck if Primal Fury does as much damage as DeMonkey says it does, the clones and forcing clones to teleport sounds powerful as hell.

You guys under rate even normal specters. They take attention off you and the specs you create from vapor to cosmic can help alot. Nekros can desecrate on survivals, trinity can heal you and give energy, harrow can give crit buffs, banshee can apply sonor to enemies. There are so many options clones and AI provide you with. Yes the AI itself sucks, but make use of the most effective abilities and suddenly they can help a ton. Add some manual control on top of it and you've got a perfect companion that DE can easily create. Tell me nekros players out there, if you see an arctic eximus or nullifier spawn as one of your minions, do you sometimes hide within those bubbles, of course you do! Specters just have passive things that help out. Heck even Arson Eximus are worth keeping alive for the damage reduction they give you.

One last thing. This is an opening for DE to work on AI for companions and explore how to make minions more viable. Are we seriously going to let this slip by? I'm sure lots of us want Ai to get better. Equinox players, Nekros players, Nyx players, Revenant players, Soon to be Wu Kong Players, Inaros Players, Khora Players, and Atlas Players. They all use AI companions to their advantage. I say let them work on an AI ability just to explore the area more. This doesn't even just apply to our AI focused frames. What about defense operatives, rescue, everything. If this rework opens the door for DE to tweak the AI, then we should be all for it. We desperately need this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bro if you not gone comment i really dont wanna see it if you actually read comments instead of posting w.e you felt like you would of peeped how i felt about the devstream wukong rework hence why i said its clear they dont play of the warframes. At least try and be productive (XB1)EternalDrk Mako.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Violet_Xe said:

Again... I have to say this but AI isn't that bad. feel like people keep forgetting that CONTROL allows even specters to be valuble. An example i've already given is God of War, atreus. You can switch his gear, upgrade him, control his damage type, and tell him when to attack. Kinda like what were going to have Wu Kong. It's a free specter that it feels like DE is going to add some functionality to.

I've already said that they could tie in combos using his clones for Primal Fury. Charge attacks force all clones to teleport and slam their primal fury sticks onto the target you're aiming at. Maybe even preforming a finisher. Just adding these simple little things make Wu Kong's clones far more effective than ANY other specter in the game aside form the Ancient Healer who serves an entirely different purpose. Control means the AI doesn't matter. If you're a good Wu Kong, you can properly control these clones and make the most out of them. Heck if Primal Fury does as much damage as DeMonkey says it does, the clones and forcing clones to teleport sounds powerful as hell.

You guys under rate even normal specters. They take attention off you and the specs you create from vapor to cosmic can help alot. Nekros can desecrate on survivals, trinity can heal you and give energy, harrow can give crit buffs, banshee can apply sonor to enemies. There are so many options clones and AI provide you with. Yes the AI itself sucks, but make use of the most effective abilities and suddenly they can help a ton. Add some manual control on top of it and you've got a perfect companion that DE can easily create. Tell me nekros players out there, if you see an arctic eximus or nullifier spawn as one of your minions, do you sometimes hide within those bubbles, of course you do! Specters just have passive things that help out. Heck even Arson Eximus are worth keeping alive for the damage reduction they give you.

One last thing. This is an opening for DE to work on AI for companions and explore how to make minions more viable. Are we seriously going to let this slip by? I'm sure lots of us want Ai to get better. Equinox players, Nekros players, Nyx players, Revenant players, Soon to be Wu Kong Players, Inaros Players, Khora Players, and Atlas Players. They all use AI companions to their advantage. I say let them work on an AI ability just to explore the area more. This doesn't even just apply to our AI focused frames. What about defense operatives, rescue, everything. If this rework opens the door for DE to tweak the AI, then we should be all for it. We desperately need this.

people keep saying clones yet it's only one. De seems very against letting Wukong be the one monkey army like he is in lore. Not even a troupe.

Counting on augment to let him make multiple when it's not even finalized is wishful thinking. 

It's clear they don't care about the monkey. The rework says it louder than their words will. 

Rip Wukong mains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Excalideus said:

Bro if you not gone comment i really dont wanna see it if you actually read comments instead of posting w.e you felt like you would of peeped how i felt about the devstream wukong rework hence why i said its clear they dont play of the warframes. At least try and be productive (XB1)EternalDrk Mako.

They were simply pointing out that DE have already decided on abilities for Wukong, and that they're unlikely to completely upend everything and give him 4 entirely new abilities.

Or 5 new abilities, your thread really doesn't make any sense, you said "when primal fury is active this will do 'x'" but you never actually mention how Primal Fury gets activated. I mean, you propose a new passive, a new #1, #2 and a new #3 ability and then provide multiple options for his cloud walker to be turned into a fourth ability. Where does Primal Fury fit in?

Your thread is a mess, I'm afraid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

people keep saying clones yet it's only one. De seems very against letting Wukong be the one monkey army like he is in lore. 

in the lore he utilizes his clones basically in every episodic chapter in some way??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, toyetic said:

in the lore he utilizes his clones basically in every episodic chapter in some way??

It's easier to list the times he isn't using his clones. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

It's easier to list the times he isn't using his clones. 

then please list what times throughout the 100 chapter story in which he doesn't use his clones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

Rip Wukong mains.

I'm not dead yet.

Just now, toyetic said:

in the lore he utilizes his clones basically in every episodic chapter in some way??

Funnily enough, I don't recall it happening all that much from what I read of Journey to the West. It happened, sure, but I recall him transmogrifying his body more often that he summoned clones. Growing to the height of heaven, growing additional limbs or simply transforming into a fish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the second time hes done this hence why i commented the way i did implying that ive already met him. secondly if you actually read everything you would know everything was explained thoroughly the only ability i didnt post was primal fury because it doesnt need to be changed and would not gain any buffs from stuff alreadt being activated before activating. Let me explain this more thoroughly since logic seems to escape people in the forums when the words are resting in their faces the extra effects for the 1 2 and 3 only kick in when the four is activated. Cloud walker being activated only when the 4 wasnt activated as a 3rd ability option

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

people keep saying clones yet it's only one. De seems very against letting Wukong be the one monkey army like he is in lore. Not even a troupe.

Even IF it's only one. if you're given proper control that by default makes his specter the best in the game. You can't control any other allies. Giving him more clones makes sense so we all agree on it. It's something to make the ability better and would seperate him more from say a duality equinox. It makes sense with his lore and DE should add this. thats why were talking about him having multiple clones in the first place. Yes not everyone agrees but it seems like the most logical and effective way to make his clones more unique.

DE also hasn't said anything about being against him having a monkey squad. and even if they are, we can completely destroy that reasoning because inaros and nekros can summon their own group to fight with them. If i'm wrong and they said, "we dont want him to have tons of clones" then please tell me so i an correct my way of thought.

You're also forgetting that I mentioned, AI is pretty damn important to the game. Even if he only gets one clone, if DE can get some experience with AI management and apply it to all other warframes and companions in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Tenno!,

interesting to see how many different people and ideas are here for a frame that is supposed to be not used and hated. 🙂

Well, i like Wukong, ( dont use it much...so many frames, i change every week my main ) , and when i use him i manage to enjoy and make easy any mission: but while i love the concept of the Monkey King ( love the lore and the character) it has been always a bit boring to use: press defy, you are immortal, but you can use all those weapons that have self crazy damage and are so hard to use with other frames, and you almost never use the other abilities...the 4rd has potential, but the animations are not as good as could be, i really love staff and bo animations in warframe, not this one ( could be so amazing, if added real good martial arts real figures with the bo staff...i never like the animations of primal fury).

Then...any change that makes the frame more fun, are welcome. ( you talked about Nyx before...i like Nyx, the rework made her more fun to use, but i complete almost all start chart with her and got a bit bored of her...variety is king in this game...now i am with wisp.

Anyway, as i said, any change that makes the frame more fun will be good. lets wait for the final result, i really apreciate the passion and teh complains of teh community to make the game better. tx guys

Issue here is that many people loves the " press a button to kill all"..what i find a bit boring ( reason why i don't play most  DPS frames and i enjoy more CC frames).

looking forward his de luxe skin though :)...will be like having a new frame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

Even IF it's only one. if you're given proper control that by default makes his specter the best in the game. You can't control any other allies. Giving him more clones makes sense so we all agree on it. It's something to make the ability better and would seperate him more from say a duality equinox. It makes sense with his lore and DE should add this. thats why were talking about him having multiple clones in the first place. Yes not everyone agrees but it seems like the most logical and effective way to make his clones more unique.

DE also hasn't said anything about being against him having a monkey squad. and even if they are, we can completely destroy that reasoning because inaros and nekros can summon their own group to fight with them. If i'm wrong and they said, "we dont want him to have tons of clones" then please tell me so i an correct my way of thought.

You're also forgetting that I mentioned, AI is pretty damn important to the game. Even if he only gets one clone, if DE can get some experience with AI management and apply it to all other warframes and companions in the game.

Like a few have mentioned means of controlling the ai remedies those problems quite a bit. 

As is currently the ai system for specters is surprisingly good *uses them alot cause solo play tends to want to see another friendly face* Not for all frames but the ones that are it's almost like another player. 

I hope they're not against it but the fact they only release it working with just one leaves many questions. 

As is we got a marking system that companions use with certain mods which can be re-purposed for Wukong to further influence clone ai. 

One thing at a time. If they can't even set his clones ai to be a staple then w/e they do towards other ai will look bleak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Excalideus said:

Cloud walker being activated only when the 4 wasnt activated as a 3rd ability option

But you've already proposed what his 3rd ability should be, so by including Cloudwalker as well Wukong has no room for Primal Fury.

Unless your proposal for his 3rd ability isn't actually his third ability... but that would make no sense.

Like I said, your post is a mess. Use some of that logic you're attempting to rub in my face and apply it to your post, cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Violet_Xe said:

Heck if Primal Fury does as much damage as DeMonkey says it does

It does, I have a build on my profile.

Fairly sure I actually use Sacrificial Steel now, but just taking into account Primal Rage Wukong gets 50% crit chance. I use 5 of 6 Gladiator mods meaning as soon as I hit 1.5x I'm guaranteed crits, and each additional .5 combo adds another 18.75% crit chance.

Then you have to consider arcane avenger, which gives me a base 80% crit chance when proc'd. 1.5x combo is therefore 170% crit chance, and each additional .5 combo adds another 30% crit chance. 2x combo is easy to attain at a mere 15 hits, and at this point gives guaranteed orange crits. This is math without even factoring in True Steel.

On a weapon that already deals thousands of damage per hit due to both power strength and melee mods affecting it, it gets pretty mad. I'll regularly be the top damage scorer in a mission because the scoreboard counts overkill damage and the staff hits so damn hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is just the most retarded thing ever.

When we had Hyldrin ppl were freakong out.

Then Wisp came around and ppl were freakong out.

Both of them turned out to be useful and fun. And now here we go again with Wukong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...