I got one issue with Gauss...

[LarryOtter]

Why does his redline buff Holster Speed ?

i mean anything could have been more usefull for example movement speed (would have also had an effect on his mach rush) or some sort of survivability buff. 

I mean personally I never thought „oh man my Holster Speed is to low !“

[Lazarow]

4 minutes ago, LarryOtter said:

i mean anything could have been more usefull for example movement speed (would have also had an effect on his mach rush)

giving Gauss more moevement speed on top of what he already has would make him even further unplayable in regular missions with small corridors and objects to smack in. Holster is so you can switch to one an other weapon, its useful as an extra buff as sometimes switching to the other weapon is faster than reloading the current weapon and is very good when you are in a hoard if enemies you need/want to kill

[Buzkyl]

19 minutes ago, Lazarow said:

giving Gauss more moevement speed on top of what he already has would make him even further unplayable in regular missions with small corridors and objects to smack in.

Not really as you can just tap mach rush to use a short range dash.

[Aldain]

I don't have access to him yet, but from a theoretical standpoint, why is his 3 so short ranged? I mean it doesn't have to be insanely long ranged, but the current base just feels tiny.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Aldain

[YazMatazO]

1 hour ago, LarryOtter said:

Why does his redline buff Holster Speed ?

i mean anything could have been more usefull for example movement speed (would have also had an effect on his mach rush) or some sort of survivability buff. 

I mean personally I never thought „oh man my Holster Speed is to low !“

Holster Speed is an insanely good stat.

The only issue I got with Gauss is how streamlined he is. Borderline boring. 

[RX-3DR]

27 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I don't have access to him yet, but from a theoretical standpoint, why is his 3 so short ranged? I mean it doesn't have to be insanely long ranged, but the current base just feels tiny.

50 Energy area CC over a duration with multiple bonuses on itself. It can deal damage with Fire, completely freeze enemies with Cold, and knockback/pull enemies with Blast. Blast can also strip armor. For a 50 cost ability that has that many options, something has got to give and 12m range is actually very generous in this situation. Normally, when you're looking at 50 Cost offensive abilities with really strong options, they're either a directional or have limited targets.

[Aldain]

Just now, RX-3DR said:

50 Energy area CC over a duration with multiple bonuses on itself. It can deal damage with Fire, completely freeze enemies with Cold, and knockback/pull enemies with Blast. Blast can also strip armor. For a 50 cost ability that has that many options, something has got to give and 12m range is actually very generous in this situation. Normally, when you're looking at 50 Cost offensive abilities with really strong options, they're either a directional or have limited targets.

I suppose you're right, though the minimal shrink-down range being 4m seems really small.

How does it compare with range mods by-the-by?

[swiftasacoursing]

24 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I suppose you're right, though the minimal shrink-down range being 4m seems really small.

How does it compare with range mods by-the-by?

Just putting on a stretch mod is usually enough. I don’t remember the exact range but it affects all the enemies within a reasonable range (not expecting it to reach the lancer at the opposite end of hydron yknow?)

[Firedtm]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

I don't have access to him yet, but from a theoretical standpoint, why is his 3 so short ranged? I mean it doesn't have to be insanely long ranged, but the current base just feels tiny.

Your so right Gauss needs more range.

46 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

50 Energy area CC over a duration with multiple bonuses on itself. It can deal damage with Fire, completely freeze enemies with Cold, and knockback/pull enemies with Blast. Blast can also strip armor. For a 50 cost ability that has that many options, something has got to give and 12m range is actually very generous in this situation. Normally, when you're looking at 50 Cost offensive abilities with really strong options, they're either a directional or have limited targets.

You heard the man, Gauss needs more range, his 3 costs too much for it too be useful, nor does it have the range like Equinox, Limbo, Orberon, Nova.

[HugintheCrow]

5 minutes ago, Firedtm said:

Gauss needs more range.

[Zeclem]

2 hours ago, LarryOtter said:

Why does his redline buff Holster Speed ?

i mean anything could have been more usefull for example movement speed (would have also had an effect on his mach rush) or some sort of survivability buff. 

I mean personally I never thought „oh man my Holster Speed is to low !“

that ability is fine. it already gives excellent buffs. 

[0_The_F00l]

Why not? i really don't see an issue with holster speed. considering there are already so many good buffs on it.

Granted with the current state of the melee rework holster speed of any kind feels ... forced and arbitrary.

if melee weapons don't need holster time , why do ranged weapons? I do wish DE made things more consistent.

[Xepthrichros]

Holster speed. The most "meh" buff I've ever seen in my life. I feel the "holster speed" buff is just there to make the ability appear to "do more". Like who ever seriously considers holster speed as a thing when modding? 

Runs at break neck speed. But apparently, momentum has zero impact on how hard he hits. K. Perfectly logical. 

I would take a melee attack buff any day. You run that fast and then you attack with your melee weapon, I believe that momentum ought to carry forward with some impact.

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[SteveCutler]

Why is this an issue to you? What harm does it do to you boosting holster speed?

This buff makes perfect sense, as Redline releases all speed limiters. I personally like it, as the default holster speed is dreadfully slow.

In a way, Redline does also boost melee damage if you have Kinetic Plating up as well.

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, LarryOtter said:

Why does his redline buff Holster Speed ?

Okay, did you see the two weapons he shipped with? You've got a crit launcher and a status launcher. Neither of these weapons can really hit high level without an awesome Riven roll, but they can combo. What's the obvious synergy there? You can use your Secondary to bomb a whole load of targets with Status, knock down their armour or other defenses, and then crit away with your Primary on the weakened enemies.

This works for other weapon combos too, but you see where I'm going with this. Weapon holstering takes approximately a full second, which is enough time to get players killed. If you have the ability to switch your weapons really quickly you can pull off these combos fantastically.

Think of Nullifiers, switch to secondary for a high rate of fire that can strip the bubble down for minimal effort and time, then back to primary for a shotgun to the face.

Holster Speed is actually a good stat if you're really focused on weapons play. If you're not? Not so much.

As it is, the stat is there, and boosting his speed more wouldn't really achieve all that much in terms of affect on enemies.

[pisces13]

25 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Okay, did you see the two weapons he shipped with? You've got a crit launcher and a status launcher. Neither of these weapons can really hit high level without an awesome Riven roll, but they can combo. What's the obvious synergy there? You can use your Secondary to bomb a whole load of targets with Status, knock down their armour or other defenses, and then crit away with your Primary on the weakened enemies.

This works for other weapon combos too, but you see where I'm going with this. Weapon holstering takes approximately a full second, which is enough time to get players killed. If you have the ability to switch your weapons really quickly you can pull off these combos fantastically.

Think of Nullifiers, switch to secondary for a high rate of fire that can strip the bubble down for minimal effort and time, then back to primary for a shotgun to the face.

Holster Speed is actually a good stat if you're really focused on weapons play. If you're not? Not so much.

As it is, the stat is there, and boosting his speed more wouldn't really achieve all that much in terms of affect on enemies.

Regardless he should have a speed increase for a frame made for speed.

[JackHargreav]

My only problem is the 2nd ability. It's almost trash.

At least it gives some DR and converts (some type of) damage to energy.

Edited September 7, 2019 by JackHargreav

[swiftasacoursing]

45 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Neither of these weapons can really hit high level without an awesome Riven roll,

 

46 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Think of Nullifiers, switch to secondary for a high rate of fire that can strip the bubble down for minimal effort and time, then back to primary for a shotgun to the face.

I think you’ve got your weapons confused. Acceltra has high fire rate and is a primary. And neither of his weapons are shotguns

[Birdframe_Prime]

13 minutes ago, pisces13 said:

Regardless he should have a speed increase for a frame made for speed.

Why? He's already fast, there's genuinely no point to him going faster. What effects on anything do you expect to happen from him going faster?

He will still never outrun a Blinking archwing, and he will still only go in a straight line so it will not have any practical use even in the Plains or Vallis. Indoors it definitely won't serve a purpose as that will make it less easy to use him.

Gauss' dash genuinely is fast enough without Redline making him even faster, it definitely does not serve a gameplay purpose that already has other solutions that will still be better even if you change him like this.

And again, this ability is also meant to be used on enemies. Going faster won't help that either, because the knocking-them-over portion deals no damage and is only exploitable if you can turn around fast enough to ground finisher them, while the bit that ragdolls and does deal damage stops him dead anyway. Redline boosts up all of his weapon stats, reduces the cost for getting the effects out of his Thermal Sunder (by giving full effects to a single cast), makes Kinetic Plating give him melee damage buffs, and then halves the Energy cost of Mach Rush, so you can go fast for longer and cheaper.

It doesn't increase the speed because it doesn't need to increase the speed, the ability is fast enough as-is.

As a side note;

1 minute ago, swiftasacoursing said:

I think you’ve got your weapons confused. Acceltra has high fire rate and is a primary. And neither of his weapons are shotguns

I could have been clearer, but I actually did try to put that in context with the paragraph before it, let me bold the relevant text so it's clearer:

50 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

This works for other weapon combos too, but you see where I'm going with this. Weapon holstering takes approximately a full second, which is enough time to get players killed. If you have the ability to switch your weapons really quickly you can pull off these combos fantastically.

Think of Nullifiers, switch to secondary for a high rate of fire that can strip the bubble down for minimal effort and time, then back to primary for a shotgun to the face.

Hope that gets the point across a little better ^^

[swiftasacoursing]

11 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Hope that gets the point across a little better ^^

Ah, yeah my bad.

[RX-3DR]

5 hours ago, Firedtm said:

You heard the man, Gauss needs more range, his 3 costs too much for it too be useful, nor does it have the range like Equinox, Limbo, Orberon, Nova.

Are we actually looking at comparable examples or are you just throwing out words without actually paying attention to the details? Oberon's Hallowed Ground has a 180 degree range and is 15 meters. Reckoning has a 15 meter radius as well. Equinox's Maim is 18 meters and is a known damage outlier because it scales off damage dealt. Molecular Prime works on a growing radius which scales completely differently, cost 100 energy, it's on a completely different level. Limbo's Cataclysm is 16 meters, is potentially disruptive to your own team and you have to pay an extra 50% more energy before it actually does any CC.

He doesn't need more range and the energy cost is fine since you functionally pay half when in Redline. Stop trying to turn Gauss into the next room lockdown/instakill frame. I suppose next, we're going to compare every ability to Chaos and how everything needs to be have a base range of 25m?

Edited September 7, 2019 by RX-3DR

[Mu_Gera]

It's fine that it buffs holster speed, speed is literally in the name, but what's not fine is that it has the best buff amount compared to the other redline buffs. You'd think movement speed would be the best but nah, holster speed.

[pisces13]

3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Why? He's already fast, there's genuinely no point to him going faster. What effects on anything do you expect to happen from him going faster?

He will still never outrun a Blinking archwing, and he will still only go in a straight line so it will not have any practical use even in the Plains or Vallis. Indoors it definitely won't serve a purpose as that will make it less easy to use him.

Gauss' dash genuinely is fast enough without Redline making him even faster, it definitely does not serve a gameplay purpose that already has other solutions that will still be better even if you change him like this.

And again, this ability is also meant to be used on enemies. Going faster won't help that either, because the knocking-them-over portion deals no damage and is only exploitable if you can turn around fast enough to ground finisher them, while the bit that ragdolls and does deal damage stops him dead anyway. Redline boosts up all of his weapon stats, reduces the cost for getting the effects out of his Thermal Sunder (by giving full effects to a single cast), makes Kinetic Plating give him melee damage buffs, and then halves the Energy cost of Mach Rush, so you can go fast for longer and cheaper.

It doesn't increase the speed because it doesn't need to increase the speed, the ability is fast enough as-is.

As a side note;

I could have been clearer, but I actually did try to put that in context with the paragraph before it, let me bold the relevant text so it's clearer:

Hope that gets the point across a little better ^^

Thats your opinion that he is fast enough as is. There are plenty of frames that can increase their speed based on  ability. There is no reason gauss should not get the same treatment just because you feel he is fast enough. Mach run having base distance per second is plainly stupid. It should ramp up the longer the ability is being used.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, pisces13 said:

There are plenty of frames that can increase their speed based on  ability.

Yeah, but only one per frame... That's not a particularly compelling argument. Volt has Speed, which isn't as fast, but for compensation is more controllable and ups his melee attack speed too. Wisp has Speed, but again, not as fast as Gauss, and is more controllable and has Fire Rate as its subsidiary buff. Zephyr has a dash that goes faster than Gauss, but is even less controllable and has the downside/upside of the Momentum preservation which is a mixed bag.

It's not so much an opinion as a design critique.

Frames that go fast almost always do so with a purpose, a result, that matters. Zephyr's Tailwind is the fastest dash when modded correctly, but because of that it has next to no affect on enemies and the ability has been combined with Dive Bomb in order to give it any kind of flexibility, the speed sacrifices a huge amount of actual game play function to be as fast as it is.

Gauss runs fast, but his effect is virtually nothing unless he impacts something for the ragdoll and the damage.

I ask you again; what does going faster on Gauss actually do? What does it achieve?

You go faster in an open environment with Redline and Mach Rush combined? Why? What does this serve? What does this help?

It doesn't have any greater effect on enemies, it doesn't have any greater effect on your ability to get from one place to another (because the guy with the Itzal still gets there first, due to Teleporting) and it doesn't even do that in normal missions, for the same reason that Zephyr's Tailwind isn't more useful in regular missions.

You've said repeatedly that it should go faster, that you don't feel he's fast enough. But why? What are you not achieving by only going the speed that Mach Rush goes when modded well? What are you, somehow, missing out on?

If you gave any form of valid reason beyond the fact that you want it... then maybe you'd get some better responses from people.

[pisces13]

44 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Yeah, but only one per frame... That's not a particularly compelling argument. Volt has Speed, which isn't as fast, but for compensation is more controllable and ups his melee attack speed too. Wisp has Speed, but again, not as fast as Gauss, and is more controllable and has Fire Rate as its subsidiary buff. Zephyr has a dash that goes faster than Gauss, but is even less controllable and has the downside/upside of the Momentum preservation which is a mixed bag.

It's not so much an opinion as a design critique.

Frames that go fast almost always do so with a purpose, a result, that matters. Zephyr's Tailwind is the fastest dash when modded correctly, but because of that it has next to no affect on enemies and the ability has been combined with Dive Bomb in order to give it any kind of flexibility, the speed sacrifices a huge amount of actual game play function to be as fast as it is.

Gauss runs fast, but his effect is virtually nothing unless he impacts something for the ragdoll and the damage.

I ask you again; what does going faster on Gauss actually do? What does it achieve?

You go faster in an open environment with Redline and Mach Rush combined? Why? What does this serve? What does this help?

It doesn't have any greater effect on enemies, it doesn't have any greater effect on your ability to get from one place to another (because the guy with the Itzal still gets there first, due to Teleporting) and it doesn't even do that in normal missions, for the same reason that Zephyr's Tailwind isn't more useful in regular missions.

You've said repeatedly that it should go faster, that you don't feel he's fast enough. But why? What are you not achieving by only going the speed that Mach Rush goes when modded well? What are you, somehow, missing out on?

If you gave any form of valid reason beyond the fact that you want it... then maybe you'd get some better responses from people.

The point is to go fast. Somehow you can't understand that. You always need some reason to disagree with people?