Kuva Lich PvP Invasions

[(XBOX)Lmacncheese]

15 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

Please tell me this isn't some idoitic youtubers idea. 

He had a similar idea he said it should have a game mode like destinies invade pvp thing is in one of his many rants 

[JackHargreav]

19 minutes ago, (XB1)bioblaze10656 said:

He had a similar idea he said it should have a game mode like destinies invade pvp thing is in one of his many rants 

Oh so he's making rants now.

How he has subscribers is beyond me.

[(XBOX)Lmacncheese]

13 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Oh so he's making rants now.

How he has subscribers is beyond me

14 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Oh so he's making rants now.

How he has subscribers is beyond me.

He's had many rants now it comes from a good spot wants the game to be better but at this point it's alittle overboard.

 

[Troposphere6]

I don't understand how this makes sense lore wise. The conclaves lore bases makes sense it's essentially exhibition or training matches between tenno more sport than anything else. Stalker mode doesn't make much sense neither does essentially the same thing with reinforcements. It's not just that the tenno are on the same side but lore wise they each know each other personally I can't see why they'd want to assassinate each other. On top of making no sense lore wise in a game that rewards and encourages cooperation it doesn't make sense to force people to have grudges against other players. All this would do would be encourage bullying of new players and cycles of revenge. On top of that an opt in system would have issues because once the tiny player base doing this did opt in it would become next to impossible for anyone at a later date to have the tactics and equipment to join in as seen with the conclave. I think it would be a better use of time to consider how to fix the issues in the conclave rather than making more problems to be fixed. 

15 minutes ago, (XB1)Saint Nasim said:

What makes it a "dumass" idea?

I think that it's a "dumass" idea because it goes against the core of the game but I'm just guessing that's what was meant. I think it's a decent idea for a conversation even if I don't want to see it implemented.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Make it a seperate game mode where a player can bring these kuva lich followers to missions who have insane weapons and abilities while having the risk of getting them destory by other players. It's a dumass idea because it's only here for a few weeks of entertainment, not a expanding content for years to come.

[JackHargreav]

2 hours ago, (PS4)jaggerwanderer said:

Make it a seperate game mode where a player can bring these kuva lich followers to missions who have insane weapons and abilities while having the risk of getting them destory by other players. It's a dumass idea because it's only here for a few weeks of entertainment, not a expanding content for years to come.

But didn't you know that pvp is a forever lasting content that you can't get bored of ever? /S

[Kontrollo]

1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

But didn't you know that pvp is a forever lasting content that you can't get bored of ever? /S

Well, I'd wager it's a bit longer-lasting than the one to two weeks of PvE before the next Content Drought topics start popping up again. 🙄

[EmberStar]

To the original poster:  Please look up the extensive threads about Stalker Mode that popped up basically every time it was mentioned, especially after the dev mentioned in the Tactical Potato interview that he felt there should be no opt-out (because only hardcore and newbies would have it turned on.)  "PVP Invasion" modes have been discussed before.  Well, argued about.  Viciously.  And repeatedly.  Some PVP fans can imagine nothing more fun than breaking into another player's mission and ganking them.  And many players feel that doing that is basically the purest definition of griefing.  (Some even consider it to be game-breaking levels of griefing, to the point that they feel the only acceptable solution is for the PVPers to be banned, or for everyone else to quit.)

In any case, Stalker Mode is already pretty close to what you wanted from your Kuva Lich PVP mode.  At this point it seems unlikely that will ever go live, because this game does not have a large proportion of people who come here to PVP.  And many of the ones who do not PVP are *strongly* opposed to giving PVP any more traction or attention than it already gets.  (Which is very little.)  The devs finally made a statement that IF Stalker Mode ever makes it into the game, it will be Opt-in.  They didn't clarify how that would work in teams, though my hope is that any team that isn't 100% Opt-in will NOT be a valid target.  Otherwise there's no point in having the toggle since any team with even a single PVP fanatic would be a PVP target.  One, *maybe* two players get their PVP jollies on, at the expense of three who don't care or don't want PVP.  😞 

[844448]

10 hours ago, (XB1)Saint Nasim said:

What makes it a "dumass" idea?

It's something similar to dark souls where you can enter someone's session as an invader and fight the player without warning, causing you to lose your hard work. Do you like it if you've gathered a massive amount of resources (let's say kuva) and someone just enter your session, wipe you out with one shot, and leave you dead on the floor taking all of your hard work while you get nothing after all of that?

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

18 minutes ago, 844448 said:

It's something similar to dark souls where you can enter someone's session as an invader and fight the player without warning, causing you to lose your hard work. Do you like it if you've gathered a massive amount of resources (let's say kuva) and someone just enter your session, wipe you out with one shot, and leave you dead on the floor taking all of your hard work while you get nothing after all of that?

Sure. He isn't stepping into a neutral session. Im already guns blazing. He will die before he even reads my gamertag. You defeatists work under the assumption that he will always beat you, but this is not the case for me. If you invade my session, good luck.

[844448]

Just now, (XB1)Saint Nasim said:

Sure. He isn't stepping into a neutral session. Im already guns blazing. He will die before he even reads my gamertag. You defeatists work under the assumption that he will always beat you, but this is not the case for me. If you invade my session, good luck.

And what is the warframe and weapons you use as your main? Since the invasion can happen without warning and you might not know they're behind you and ready to gang up on you even when you're using chroma.

But sure, if you say you'll kill the invaders before they can see your gamertag, I will remember your name

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

Just now, 844448 said:

And what is the warframe and weapons you use as your main? Since the invasion can happen without warning and you might not know they're behind you and ready to gang up on you even when you're using chroma.

But sure, if you say you'll kill the invaders before they can see your gamertag, I will remember your name

I just play valkyr so I never have to worry about dying. Ive used her for any content higher than mercury since she got her rework back in 2016.

[Uhkretor]

On 2019-10-06 at 11:08 PM, JackHargreav said:

Please tell me this isn't some idoitic youtubers idea. 

... it is... unfortunately, also has a rant board with stuff to rant about... kind of like iFlynn...

 

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Saint Nasim said:

Ive used her for any content higher than mercury since she got her rework back in 2016.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Why does DE host Conclave in their own servers? Host Migration issues. Sure I can run a mission and then have some idiot invade me. But guess what? That invader isn't going to be able to move an inch because of connection problem that may or may not have been cause by me. Then there's going to be people pulling the plug or just out right abandoning the mission once the odds isn't in their favor. Yeah... still a dumass idea.

[DoomFruit]

No.

If DE ever puts forced invasion PvP into this game, I'm going to write a firewall script that automatically detects and tarpits any invaders. Enjoy your eternal loading screen, griefers.

[Corvid]

4 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

No.

If DE ever puts forced invasion PvP into this game, I'm going to write a firewall script that automatically detects and tarpits any invaders. Enjoy your eternal loading screen, griefers.

An excellent illustration of how vehement the opposition to PvP is in this game.

If it were to pass, I would request a copy of said script for my own use, as I also have a strong dislike of PvP.

[Brucieman64]

Stalker Invasion in Dark Souls Style? big Nope from me. Why would you want to annoy others in a pve game?
Why would you bully a new Tenno trying to farm gear and resources with a meta loadout, or any given way?Tenno are supposed to be made of honor.  What honor is there to bully the weak, or using cheap tactics to demolish an ally's mission?

On 2019-10-06 at 8:05 PM, Androndas said:

Many players desire an invasion mechanic

Let's not use the " Methinks, therefore everyone thinks so" card. I absolutely HATE invasion mechanics.

[Tsukinoki]

On 2019-10-07 at 10:16 AM, (XB1)Saint Nasim said:

What makes it a "dumass" idea?

Imagine you're doing an MDef, or Def mission.
Invasion happens....and the player one-shots your objective 7-10x over instantly.

You just lost the mission and they didn't even try to attack you.  They just one-shot you causing an instant loss on your end.

Or what about a more trollish player that joins in and then runs and hides.  If its like the stalker there is a permanent lockdown that you can't get rid of and now if the other player can hide long enough you'll lose automatically because you haven't killed anything in a certain period of time.

And if they invade during the escape portion of sabotage?  Well if there's a timer to mission failure going then its not hard to see what some invaders would do....

And if you're doing a spy mission?  Hopefully the invader doesn't decide to run in and trigger a vault (npc stalker does this if he spawns badly, more-so on grineer missions with the magnetic detection walls...but at least he isn't programmed to mess it up on purpose)

The mode is pretty much griefer bait and nothing else.

On 2019-10-07 at 8:53 PM, (XB1)Saint Nasim said:

I just play valkyr so I never have to worry about dying.

This points to the other problem:
Say you do invade and come up against a Valkyr, or an Assimilate Nyx.  How are you supposed to win?
Oh right...you cant.

What about someone who decides to hide in kid mode?  How are you supposed to kill them then?
Oh right...you just literally can't.

How would that really be fun for the invader in missions like that?

Basically the only way for the invader to do anything is to hope they invade new players who don't have kid mode or any number of godmode frames and gank them in one-shot before they can do anything, or hope that its a mission with an objective that they can destroy/spy vault to trigger to cause a mission failure for the person their invading without having to fight them.

[JackHargreav]

On 2019-10-08 at 12:58 AM, Kontrollo said:

Well, I'd wager it's a bit longer-lasting than the one to two weeks of PvE before the next Content Drought topics start popping up again. 🙄

Depends on the game. In Call of Duty I loved pvp. It was fun even after I unlocked everything I wanted.

But in warframe? I don't think it would last for a long time. Especially this kind of pvp writen by the op.

[Kontrollo]

13 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Depends on the game. In Call of Duty I loved pvp. It was fun even after I unlocked everything I wanted.

But in warframe? I don't think it would last for a long time. Especially this kind of pvp writen by the op.

An invasion system is not exactly my cup of tea, either. But I can tell you I'd probably have stopped playing this game back in 2015 if not for the Conclave revamp. Different tastes, I guess.

 

On another note:

3 hours ago, Corvid said:

4 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

No.

If DE ever puts forced invasion PvP into this game, I'm going to write a firewall script that automatically detects and tarpits any invaders. Enjoy your eternal loading screen, griefers.

An excellent illustration of how vehement the opposition to PvP is in this game.

If it were to pass, I would request a copy of said script for my own use, as I also have a strong dislike of PvP.

Guess me linking to that other thread on the first page didn't help matters, so here's a screenshot of the title, too:

 

Last time we heard about that one they officially confirmed you'd have to opt for it^[1][2]. So calm down, relax, and don't waste time on firewall settings you won't need. 😏

Edited October 9, 2019 by Kontrollo
a word

[EmberStar]

On 2019-10-07 at 3:58 PM, Kontrollo said:

Well, I'd wager it's a bit longer-lasting than the one to two weeks of PvE before the next Content Drought topics start popping up again. 🙄

Only for people that actually like PVP.  Although the last time they tried to do a PVP Tactical Event, it had barely even started before both PVE *and* PVP fans were complaining about how horrible it was and what a waste of time it had been to make it in the first place.

PVE types hated it because an exclusive cosmetic reward was locked behind a mode they didn't enjoy, and weren't any good at.  The ones who gave it an honest try still got annihilated by PVP diehards with massively more experience at it (and a much wider selection of PVP mods to choose from.)

PVP types hated it because PVE players would show up, do the bare minimum for the event points (to earn the cosmetic) and then just allow themselves to die.  The ones who honestly wanted new players were upset because so many people were just there for the cosmetic, and not for the PVP.

[Gabbynaru]

At least not without proper opt-out. If we can opt-out without losing the ability to use the system in its fullest, then by all means, kill yourselves until you turn hollow. But I don't want any part of it, just like I don't want any part of Stalker mode, of Conclave and of PvP in general.

[Kontrollo]

14 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Only for people that actually like PVP.  Although the last time they tried to do a PVP Tactical Event, it had barely even started before both PVE *and* PVP fans were complaining about how horrible it was and what a waste of time it had been to make it in the first place.

PVE types hated it because an exclusive cosmetic reward was locked behind a mode they didn't enjoy, and weren't any good at.  The ones who gave it an honest try still got annihilated by PVP diehards with massively more experience at it (and a much wider selection of PVP mods to choose from.)

PVP types hated it because PVE players would show up, do the bare minimum for the event points (to earn the cosmetic) and then just allow themselves to die.  The ones who honestly wanted new players were upset because so many people were just there for the cosmetic, and not for the PVP.

Not entirely sure why you'd want to bring those events up in this thread, because it really is about something a bit different.

Look, it's entirely clear from this and your past posts that you don't like anything even related to PvP in this game. But next time you bring it up, please stick to the facts, alright?

 

Even back in the day we would constantly hear on the forums how it's only such a tiny minority who even like it, but then somehow everyone who only joined these event games for some minor cosmetics would still get beaten up by the regulars? That seriously doesn't add up and you know it. 🤨

Not to mention that there was no gear involved in these, nor did the choice of Warframe make a difference. Everyone was on equal grounds, just like in the (now gone) Opticor Variant mode.

 

By the way, the last time I participated in one of these events was Snowday Showdown, and in the few games I played I had the impression people were actually having fun. The forums were a different matter: from what I remember the regulars mostly thought it was a good attempt, but of course there were a lot of complaints from people who forced themselves into it for the rewards.

No surprise there, really, but then I don't think the forums are representative, anyway.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

Not a pvper and having forced pvp is not good.

But since the idea allows for opting out i suppose whats the harm.

Honestly the game balance isn't good for pvp.  Conclave is not something popular as it is.

[EmberStar]

2 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Even back in the day we would constantly hear on the forums how it's only such a tiny minority who even like it, but then somehow everyone who only joined these event games for some minor cosmetics would still get beaten up by the regulars? That seriously doesn't add up and you know it. 🤨

Not to mention that there was no gear involved in these, nor did the choice of Warframe make a difference. Everyone was on equal grounds, just like in the (now gone) Opticor Variant mode.

I don't play PVP.  You're probably right, and there's no way that people who are familiar with the oddities of Warframe PVP and experience at using the movement system could be way better than someone coming in cold and without that experience.  I was not aware that PVP mods were disabled in those events though.

I mentioned those events because I feel DE's track record with PVP (and the community reaction to it) is relevant to any discussion about adding more PVP.  I would propose that the fact that DE hasn't run another PVP Tactical Alert for years *might* indicate that it wasn't a massive success.

To be honest, I'm worried about the PVE version of the Kuva Liches as it is with or without the devs spending time on PVP..  DE *also* has something of a pattern of dropping in new content and mechanics, then immediately abandoning it because they're already working on something else.  (Squirrel!)  Lunaro got added, then almost immediately forgotten.  They stuck with Fortuna for a little while, but there's still no sign of the third Orb Mother fight, or Nef Anyo.  And as soon as they add the Liches, they'll be working on Emperyion.  As soon as they slot in the Railjacks, they'll be working on New War.  And before New War comes out they'll be doing work on Duviri Paradox.  It could be a year or more before they even get back to updating Orb Vallis at all.  Archwing is such a mess that I'm not sure how they can fix it short of scrapping it and starting over from scratch, and on and on and on.