Dev Workshop - Kuva Lich Changes Coming Soon™

[crymgssis]

 

Thx a very good add to the lich system.

i've still got few questions, which may or not help you:

-i really like the idea of a team trying to defeat lich, however the more i play the more i find player who are refusing to kill their lich. so they basically blocking the spawn of the lich from other teammates. they are doing this cause: "i don't want to level up my lich","i don't have the good mod, so don't care",".."(they just waiting at the extraction meanwhile all the 3 teammate are waiting for him to kill or be kill by his lich. Do you have a solution for this issue ?

-the nerf of be killed by our lich giving 10 murmur for the whole team is understandable, can we at least put it on a fatal blow on a lich ?( if i kill my lich,i give to my team 10 murmur or all the over murmur i stack). it could give an interest for teammates to kill your lich

-i really glad of the fuse system, however if i got a kuva seer with a 30% bonus and got 2 seer with 25 and 26%, can we convert those in forma or kuva forma(just working on kuva weapons) ?

-and (this may be extend to relics, got a lot), will we got a multiple opening of relics one day? the way i see that, would be, i choose a relic like the actual system and start the mission. at the end i still got one choice between my relic and my teammate's. but before i went in mission I've selected a trash "playlist" in which i put 10 relic i will never open( because got more than 1000 trash relics,i will never and i mean it, i will never open those). and by returning in the liset 1-2-3 relics of the trash "playlist" will instantly open and i gain one reward of those relics without a choice(or if it open 3 relics i only got one choice between the 3 loots).

thx for reading, have a nice day

(a player mastery 27, with more than 2300h of game play)

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Better than nothing, but I doubt this will cut it somehow. Maybe enabling some extra choice to the players and less rng walls for the same mechanic would be the way to go.

 

I'm guessing we'll have to wait another month on consoles for this, right? Well, at least everything will be new for that time span, so I guess it could be worse.

Dang nabit! I asked Danielle if they'd hold up the update for more Lich changes yesterday on the Xbox thread. 

Well crap, guess I won't be touching this system till February.

[CuChulainnWD]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Dang nabit! I asked Danielle if they'd hold up the update for more Lich changes yesterday on the Xbox thread. 

Well crap, guess I won't be touching this system till February.

That is a wise idea. They are stalling, dragging their feet. They are on the right path, but their house is not in order. Someone insists on infesting the game mode with rubbish, rather than letting Steve's vision be realised. Personally, this noise is starting to piss me off. There is an expression here in Canada, that goes, '$hit or get off the pot".

DE has had 2 plus years to make the kingpin system a reality. Just under 2 weeks since launch, and they have had a metric S#&$ TONNE of excellent well thought out suggestions to vastly improve the game mode, and yet we get this insult of a Workshop update. My Lich hunting days are over until they take more drastic meaningful action in their hot fixes and updates, because to me what they are proposing is an insult to all of us.

[Huanthus]

This is a Simple Sugestion but how about having more mission types than the ones currently in-game mostly exterminations will be tiring over time.

How about enabling spy missions? Thematically it would make sense since we are trying to unveil information on our liches through murmurs so every spy terminal if done perfectly could award lets say 10 murmurs and if done guns blazing 5 murmurs each.

This could apply to Mobile def. if you got them completed over a certain threshold lets say 90% awarding 5-10 murmurs each when having 3 terminals  and 7-15 each on tilesets that have only 2.

[Emperrier]

15 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

TRADE YOUR LICH - If you have a Converted Kuva Lich, you may trade them with another player, who may be looking for a specific Kuva Lich Weapon or Ephemera.

What do you think the odds are that DE realizes that this means you can farm the same Ephemera infinitely once you roll a Lich that has one? They drop on conversion. Convert a Lich with an Ephemera and sell it to someone else who does the same and then sells it to somebody else. 

[3thereal]

So this means we'll be able to only trade Liches with our clan mates? 

 

What about the problem with liches not being co-operative? I'm hoping you guys are not promoting the current in game system which encourages players to have to solo these guys.

[Sunder]

15 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

 

• WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row. While you may get a duplicated weapon down the road, your Kuva Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor.
• RECYCLE YOUR REQUIEM - 4 Defiled Requiem Mods can now be Transmuted into a random, fully charged, Requiem Mod. This gives them some additional use, as well as helping you clean up your inventory.
• TRADE YOUR LICH - If you have a Converted Kuva Lich, you may trade them with another player, who may be looking for a specific Kuva Lich Weapon or Ephemera. This system will be coming soon, including the use of a brand new Dojo Room inspired by the early ‘War Room’ design from the King Pin System!
• MORE TO COME - We are looking at other ways in which we can make the Kuva Lich system more rewarding and unique, although there is still a lot of internal discussion surrounding the ‘hows’ while maintaining the design intent. More on this as it is finalized.

WEAPON RNG REDUCTION

I understand people getting annoyed over repeat weapons again and again. Same as with Sorties just getting Anasa's day after day. This adjustment I approve of. But let's look at the bigger issue. Getting locked into that Lich with no way out. Forcing you to complete it's sequence. Even if the day comes we can trade hunts with another player, if the weapon doesn't have a good % on it? No one's gonna want it. This also leads people to brute-forcing their way through, instead of actually trying to get Requiem Murmurs. It's just quicker and more efficient. (Another issue that needs looking at)

RECYCLE YOUR REQUIEM

This just seems silly. I don't know why Requiems have a "Charge" to begin with and honestly wish they'd remove them. We all know it's a grind function to lengthen the life of this Lich hunt. Lich's seem like late-ish game content. I'd rather way more difficult missions to try and obtain the requiems rather than simply finding the best ways to cheese through and get/unlock as many as possible. I simply don't see myself transmuting any. (Unless you add an "Empty" state to the mod and transmuting 3 will get you a charged, then maybe)

TRADE YOUR LICH

Cool I suppose? Need more info. But still, you're gonna see more players getting all "elitist" saying they'll only trade their Lich for someone who has a high % weapon. Helpful to some I guess.

MORE TO COME

• More rewarding?
  • Forcing us to commit suicide in an RNG coin toss just to learn the proper order of Requiems does NOT instill annoyance towards my Lich in making me want to bring it down. Does NOT make me feel like I've "overcome some hardship and emerged victorious". It just doesn't sit right with me. Nor does it fit the theme of an actual "Lich". 
  • The same reason why I don't see myself ever attempting my Lich until I've learned all 3 Requiems. Which as you've seen, annoys some players by blocking their LIch from spawning. Halting progress and dividing the community. I've never seen this much hostility in the community while in-game. 
  • A simple change to the fight could make it feel more triumphant. Two words, "Boss Music." Client side soundtrack of battle music and some victorious fanfare when defeating/converting your Lich. 
• More Unique?
  • Make them as ACTUAL LICH'S. Give us ways to defeat them even if we don't have all 3 requiems. Going to my doom isn't fun.
  • Striking them down should be similar to Vor, They fall and vanish/escape/temporarily die only to come back stronger and more pissed off. 
  • Simply stealing our rewards isn't that much of a hindrance. Specially when we can just get it all back by beating them. Finding a balance between them hindering the party's progress and yours individually is important. While still maintaining a fun spin on things of course.
  • Using Melee I haven't had much problem taking down anyones Lich. Might be controversial but I'd say buff  them. Make them more dangerous....then make their traits play into bonuses against them.
    • Scared of Children - Operators do 50% more damage or lowers their defense
    • Allergic to Nature - Lure them into the wilds, anywhere outdoors for an edge in combat.
    • Likes the Dark - Like with Mirage. In darkness they're full power - In light it's weakened.
    • Fear of Kubrows/Kavats/Animals - Your pet will do xx% more damage
    • Hatred of infested//corpus - Fighting them on these nodes will have them fighting the enemy too
    • Poor sense of balance - Heavy strikes will knock them on their ass
    • Female lich's should also be even more-so dangerous/powerful/serious. 

In addition to making our Lich's more unique make them FASTER. Make them pursue us. It's too easy to sprint, jump-kick them in the face and just continue on with your mission if you're choosing not to fight them. I want Batman vs. Bane. I want to flee and have someone/something keep up with me if I'm not careful. I want that dreaded encounter with something powerful. Have them switch my waypoints and lead me into a dead end, only to lock the area down and come at me. 

MAKE. THEM. DIFFICULT.

But most importantly....give me a fighting chance. Give me the opportunity to escape with my life and drive them back. Don't just fling me into a coin toss and know that I'm going to die if I'm not extremely lucky and blessed by RNGesus. I want a rival, but I want to have FUN fighting them. Specially the male Grineer with their doofy personalities. And when I do get when of those deadly serious female Lich's? I want to think, "Oh crap..."

Lich's have potential, but DE c'mon, please, please listen to your community. We're repeating over and over what we do and don't like. 

[XamTheOne]

Il y a 15 heures, [DE]Bear a dit :

WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row. While you may get a duplicated weapon down the road, your Kuva Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor.

I disagree about the usefulness of this tweak.

Compare these two patterns:

1. Tonkor, Ogris, Tonkor, Ogris, Tonkor, Ogris

2. Tonkor, Tonkor, Tonkor, Ogris, Ogris, Ogris

Same number of duplicates, but in a different order. This does not address the problem for the players who need a solution the most: those who have already multiple weapons.

Please consider a way to split the pool of weapons the randomness is applied to. I've discussed solutions in this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/dtzijx/kuva_liches_fighting_the_duplicates/

Please do not limit your efforts on duplicate weapons at this.

[BlackVortex]

9 minutes ago, Emperrier said:

They drop on conversion.

Is that true? I've read on forums people got it when they Vanquished a Lich who had one equipped

I am reading the same thing on the wiki

Can you show me any evidence of what you claimed?

[Beaut-ful-D-saster]

What if i want to opt out after already starting a hunt? I really don't want it.

I'm getting tired of hunting thralls and I no longer want my lich, or anything to do with them really. Will there be an option implemented to cancel a current hunt?

[PrematureX]

FIVE IN ROW!! Can you give me back my time?

[DoomFruit]

16 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

• WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row. While you may get a duplicated weapon down the road, your Kuva Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor.

That does not help except for the 1/64 chance of seeing the same weapon again. Or the even rarer 1/512 chance of seeing it 3 times sequentially. Sure, it's a neat failsafe to have, but it will do absolutely nothing for situations like brakk, kohm, brakk, kohm, brakk. Neither would a hypothetical change to prevent duplicate spawning unless you have them all help (for instance - if someone really wanted a high level tonkor, they would not appreciate seeing a brakk, kohm, quartakk, another brakk and then a hammer).

Honestly, the best way to do this is to have the larvaling wielding the base form of the weapon which they would be using as a lich. If that gives the player too much control over their own destiny (I know that such a thing offends those in charge of the game), group them into categories, so that someone with an ogris could end up with a kuva ogris, archgun or flintlock thing (all "heavy" guns), someone with a hek could be using a kohm or drakgoon, etc.

16 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

• RECYCLE YOUR REQUIEM - 4 Defiled Requiem Mods can now be Transmuted into a random, fully charged, Requiem Mod. This gives them some additional use, as well as helping you clean up your inventory.

So, you get 1/4 of a mod back? That is not useful.

None of this helps. The fact that these mods get used up in the first place *is* one of the problems. Why was this even implemented?

Neither is anything mentioned about the thoroughly idiotic cutscene-induced incompetence when you have the wrong combination. What justification is there for us to just die in a cutscene after we've already won the (potentially very long and arduous) fight simply because we did not have information that we have no way of obtaining?

Nothing here addresses that we're still going to get duplicate weapons and that they're still going to be utterly useless if they have even a single percent lower damage roll than the existing one. Valence transfer was a good step, but it's not where it should be. Lesser weapons should still be consumable for a flat percentage increase.

And finally, although I've never personally experienced this due to having basically zero interest in the whole 6-layer RNG disaster that is the lich system, converted liches are still apparently useless when they spawn in. Problems with the game hardlocking aside (this is literally my sole experience with a lich - my game froze for a few seconds, then I came back to discover myself in the bleedout state having been shot to death by enemies nearby while physically unable to react), from what I've read, they don't deal anywhere near enough damage to be useful, neither do they stick around or use their powers.

EDIT: and the final point - why are you even calling them liches in the first place? They don't have any of the traits associated with a lich. They don't have their soul removed and bound to some mundane object and they aren't undying (note that this does not mean invincible - you can "kill" a lich, it just doesn't stick) if this object isn't destroyed.

[Koalachan]

• WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row. While you may get a duplicated weapon down the road, your Kuva Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor.

This is a pointless edge case that also works against the edge case of trying to improve one specific weapon type. Do not put efforts towards this. It's a silly non solution.

• RECYCLE YOUR REQUIEM - 4 Defiled Requiem Mods can now be Transmuted into a random, fully charged, Requiem Mod. This gives them some additional use, as well as helping you clean up your inventory.

Do not care but it sounds like an extra option that will be welcomed by a significant amount of people. I do care a lot more about Defiled mods muddying the interface AND showing up as owned in the Requiem mission reward screen.

• TRADE YOUR LICH - If you have a Converted Kuva Lich, you may trade them with another player, who may be looking for a specific Kuva Lich Weapon or Ephemera. This system will be coming soon, including the use of a brand new Dojo Room inspired by the early ‘War Room’ design from the King Pin System!

This is terrible. No Riven 2.0 PLEASE, I'm begging you.

• MORE TO COME - We are looking at other ways in which we can make the Kuva Lich system more rewarding and unique, although there is still a lot of internal discussion surrounding the ‘hows’ while maintaining the design intent. More on this as it is finalized.

What I really wanted to hear:

• Way to deal with the toxicity created by the current design of people in pubs not finishing their Lich.
• BUT MOST OF ALL: reverse the Lich finish gameloop. You HAVE to let liches die on Finish attempts and they resurrect growing stronger, mocking you. That's the mechanic of Liches in any lore: tehy resurrect. This also gets rid of the terrible mechanic of forced player death. Without any other solution, this will also slightly alleviate the problem of pub lich finishing as more people will be amenable to do it if they won't drop death. Nothing of the current loop makes any sense and it feels bad.

 

General note: although I have significant issues with the current execution, I do love the general idea and the ability to only play high level missions. And I don't think it needs a lot more changes, but right now the gaming loop is not good and I am not confident you will solve the current issues in a way that I will like, based on your own workshop and Arbitration track record. But I am hopeful.

[0_The_F00l]

Awww , our clan will need to find space for the Contract Room , we had tidied things for Railjack too.

Oh well gonna recheck the plans,

But looking forward to the trading contracts , wanna see the weird combinations we can get for trade "WTT my Tugg Liff for Sic Fuhk " will definitely be entertaining.

How to link em though 🤔

I also don't think the "Non repeat" check is gonna help too much though its a really poor band aid.

The transmute was kinda a no brainer unless there would have been a better way to use it to gain more murmurs.

[DesertEagle1280]

Valence transfer should up the ele % - that would make getting repeat crap rolls more stomachable - eg get 25% and 27% seers, the combined form keeps the forma/exilus progress, and goes to 35% ele instead of 25 or 27, that way getting duplicates that are equally crap (or maybe even worse variants) isn't so much of a waste of player time. Then say you get another 28% seer, combine that, and your "master" weapon goes to 40%, etc.  This would allow player agency to improve their weapon mitigating some of the RNG frustration, keep duplicate liches relevant longer giving the whole system longevity, and maintain the covert/kill decision relevancy for longer as well.

Otherwise, even with murmurs going faster, it's hard to feel good about grinding for a turd when you get low % elemental rolls.

Also, what if we also took a maxed disposition weapon out of the spawn rotation?  Like say you get 5 cold seers, by combining them you wind up working up to a 60%.   From that point on, you have a 0% chance to spawn a lich with a cold seer (could still proc rad seer or toxic, etc by choosing to use a different frame for that element).  In terms of lore, maybe say the lich knows through kuva-magic of it's brethrens failure to off you with the cold seer, so they refuse to try again with a weapon that has proven a failure.

This would encourage people to keep playing even when they keep getting the same, because not only will it always make their existing one better (whether higher or lower % roll), but it also gives a finite amount of repetition where by completing the weapon you guarantee other drops. Added to my intial suggestion of a guaranteed improvement to ele % it means every lich would guarantee progress in some way - either improving a weapon you have, or spawning a weapon you don't.

[hviewerh]

Not sure if someone already suggested this, but the reward for killing a Max Level Kuva Lich should scale as well. Maybe the higher their level, the higher weapon bonus damage given to kuva weapon (will stop on limit) or any other additional reward given.

As of now, I don't see the point on getting my Kuva Lich to max level since the reward still remain the same.  

[NinjaKitsune56]

16 hours ago, Kalsarag said:

What is going to be done about "bad roll" weapons?

You do realize you can see the bonus percentage in your Kuva Lich page, right? If it's a "bad roll" you can always Convert them, more meatshields are always welcome.

[NinjaKitsune56]

43 minutes ago, Stratosara said:

What if i want to opt out after already starting a hunt? I really don't want it.

I'm getting tired of hunting thralls and I no longer want my lich, or anything to do with them really. Will there be an option implemented to cancel a current hunt?

That would be unlikely at best. Just trudge through the Lich, then don't kill anymore Larvlings. Not much of an answer, but it's the best I've got.

[MunsuLight]

il y a une heure, Emperrier a dit :

What do you think the odds are that DE realizes that this means you can farm the same Ephemera infinitely once you roll a Lich that has one? They drop on conversion. Convert a Lich with an Ephemera and sell it to someone else who does the same and then sells it to somebody else. 

Because DE havent thought about that 

[b4timert]

Can we please get a option to disable a converted lich to come and help you? They are next to useless and 1 out of 2 times they come and help they crash my game.(even my squad members liches can crash my game) They are doing more harm than be helpful.My impression of my lich is: saying something inline with I told you I'll be helpful 1 second later get 1 shot from my new lich and died.

[(XBOX)WarThenDeath]

Great more pc stuff zero console de good job on forgetting bout console yall most just want pc to have everything this is why console players stop spending there money on warframe they only care bout pc im done

 

[Xolgys]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb IamLoco:

If you choose fire dmg as your bonus dmg by running one of those "fire frames" (see the list here, scroll down a bit: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Kuva_Lich ) then you will screw all weapons that have an innate fire dmg. So the Ogris with blast damage etc. 

Same accounts for weapons with innate toxin dmg etc.

The "safest" way to avoid this at the moment is to pick an element that is not - or rarely - included in the original weapons. People tend to go for electricity dmg, as this can be modded to corrosive and radiation and is not part of the "good" kuva weapons.

But yeah, please fix this bug - and please retro-active.

thats not a rule. my ogris has toxin innate, blast doesnt have anything to do with toxin as a combined elemental and still suffers.

i know some youtubers spread that information and maybe the tendency to bug out is less but its no guarantee. my kuva tonkor surely has the bug as i mentioned but even if the tendency is lower on these, its still not a desirable situation to have such a bug in game at all. i can understand that writing a script to retroactively fix all kuva weapons alongside a fix does take a bit of time....but speaking for myself i expect such a bugfix after a week surely because the kuva weapons are mostly the reason to hunt them, aside of the ephemera which are way more rare, naturally. hence...the main feature of the whole lich system is basically bugged to the point of rendering at least 1 weapon MR fodder right now for certain and others way worse than whats intended.

im sorry, but i wont pick an elemental i dont want to just MAYBE avoid A BUG !

in the first place its not supposed to be that way so why should i ruin my intended builds to just refarm a 50%+ roll with another element which might take weeks with enough bad luck ? its way more logic to expect a retroactive fix and then finally have what it originally was supposed to be...

vor 11 Stunden schrieb ShadowTony:

There was a theory that damage which killed the larvling is directly tied to a weapon Lich will get. 13 non-fancy damage types, 13 Kuva Weapons out there...

Would certainly explain why people are getting the same weapons all over again — using the same tactic / the same favourite weapon every time. 

i can safely say that thats not the case because i use many different weapons and basically swap around after 1-4 missions max. so far ive probably killed lichlings differently every time and i havent noticed a pattern for the weapons the lich whields. cant imagine me being an exception so i assume this to only be a rumor and not actual fact.

[Felix.]

Very disappointed the War Room isn't being kept for the Corpus variant of the Lich system.  Liches being the player specific opponents with the Kingpins being the Clan specific opponents.

[BradKing]

There is a lot to like about the concept of Kuva Liches and even Kuva Lich weapons, but right now it feels bad and I fear for the future (after all the collectors and completionists get all the weapons, who will run these? How will newer players who can easily accidentally get a lich ever be able to defeat them, forced solo since no one is running it on their planets etc?)..

So, some feedback/suggestions:

• Kuva Lich creation:
  • There should be one or more specific Kuva Lich creation missions. Right now most people (more than half, perhaps a lot more) will go Sedna - Adaro, solo, to create a lich. Going in a group is annoying since people might kill too fast for the larvling to spawn, people might go too slow for the larvling to spawn, people could fight over who gets the last hit. Specific mission solves most of this. This could even be used to improve RNG in #bonus% or weapon type.
  • Being able to see the type of weapon on a larvling makes it slot machine for running Adaro/mission for them, I would not be in favour of this.
• Kuva Lich conversion:
  •  Converting a Kuva Lich should give the same drop chance for an ephemera as killing one. This would prevent people from doing wasteful kills just to get ephemera where conversions can be more fun and useful in the end.
  • Converted Liches should be more controllable, both in duration and when you get their help. Should they be the same as other summons? No, but they should definitely be more useful than they are now. They should also feel as powerful as when you converted them.
  • Trading converted Kuva Liches so that someone else can get their loot is a scary proposition.. player will always want something in return, especially since they are losing something. Even if the lich trade would not involve platinum as standard, people will want to get and bid platinum or tradable items for that, which if not supported by the regular interface will lead to problems (as some people discussed earlier in this thread already).
• Kuva Lich hunt/kill: 
  • Liches are tough but not really hard for veterans that have a collection of good weapons and mods and frames. Annoying for sure, especially solo (since solo lich encounter means you die, lich leaves), but for veterans it's fine. I would like the information about weakness and resistance and immunity to be better, more accessible (icons is not enough, UI should have option to 'mouseover/cursor select' this info). The combination of their EHP being a huge bullet sink with resistances and immunities is really annoying though, it seems most people now semi cheese this by going tank + melee + keep attacking to keep combo up even if lich is in transition states. The difference between rank 1 lich (insta triggered with one shot/slap) and rank 5 lich (unless cheesed, takes many attacks to get the interaction event) is too much with how easily you get rank 5 lich just by testing mods.
  • Kuva lich rank up, unless the effects of ranks are changed, should only happen when you are testing correct mods at a wrong position: rank up means you found a correct mod, but at the wrong position. A ranking up lich kills you since it is a failed attempt, any other way (no or wrong mod in parazon) just makes the lich leave (taunting you for not even failing). If you want your lich to rank up, use a revealed mod at a wrong position. If you don't want your lich to rank up, leave your parazon empty and just stab them when you encounter them. This could instantly solve the 'I don't want to stab my lich because..' we have now in coop missions, gives control to everyone.
  • If a lich is downed three times in a row without interaction by the lich owner, let anyone interact with them. The lich leaves, no kill, no rank up (see above). This solves the rest of the problems (people dropping while/after their lich arrives, people still not interacting while the rest also wants their lich).
  • An interaction with a lich should give murmurs for everyone. The amount could be different, but please make it worth it to play as a team.
  • Any mission tagged with archwing is not a viable influence target, meaning that Uranus and Kuva Fortress are horrible for influence.
  • If influence missions are opt in, then a lot of the interaction of a lich should be related to that, Liches stealing from any mission on said planet, including sortie, regulars, arbis etc just feels bad for newer players. Equally, honestly, as a hoarder collector veteran founder I can hardly care less when the lich steals stuff. Apart perhaps from requiem relics/mods (fixed) and void traces, since this means more grind. I don't think this is bad btw, but the balance might now be a bit too harsh for newer players.
  • Murmurs feel and/or are slow. It probably has to do with the amount of time it takes to get through lvl 80+ missions, when you constantly have to backtrack, sometimes to the start, for liches. The scaling is a big problem, especially with not having full squads, for certain mission types: defense (never fun solo), interception (never fun solo), mobile defense (this is a problem with the bad indication of radiation procs leading to self dmg on the consoles and lvl 120 enemies that slap the console, again, hard solo), etc. What about a lich coming when the mission is done, countdown is active or you are at the last wave of a defense.. feels bad to not be able to try to kill your lich because the mission ends before it (it does count as showing up, so good luck getting them angry again). It felt a little too fast during the wonderful day where lich attempts gave 10 or 10% to everyone (10% would be fine btw, 3 thrall during the first two requiem murmurs, 7 thrall equivalent during third?), it was really fast, but with 100's of liches to farm if you want min/max, being able to do a lich in a casual 2 hour warframe session feels ok actually (if you have the mods)..
• Kuva Weapons:
  • with bugs in damage numbers and calculations it is hard to balance, let's hope this is fixed sooner rather than later (elemental bonus eaten up by included damage types, ogris vs kuva ogris etc)
  • Merging kuva weapons like now feels a little better but kind of sad: if you get a 55%-60% bonus weapon, why even try to get a new one? If you get three identical weapons between 25-35% bonus it also feels painful, because it will take a long time to get a new identical weapon with the correct damage type, higher bonus etc. I propose a slightly different way of going forwards:
  • Merging two kuva weapons of the same type should improve/change the buff as it does now for sub 60% bonus: if you have a 30% bonus weapon and find a 40% bonus weapon, merge them to get 40% bonus. However, the minimum increase is 3%. Even if you merge a weapon with a lower damage bonus, you get 3%. The maximum bonus becomes 75%, meaning you will always be able to get to 75% with time and effort; RNG will just lower the required time a bit (the getting to 60% faster part). This way we can always change damage types (merge, even if max damage bonus you can still change the damage type), we can always farm for a better weapon (merging is always a way to improve, but at the start you can go faster) and it is still a time sink and a forma sink (which I don't mind in the grand scheme of things, as long as it feels fair). DE can tweak the percentages to arrive at the desired time & effort sink of course, but this way even getting a duplicate weapon at a worse percentage wouldn't feel like a complete waste (heck 5% up to 60% per merge and 3% after that would mean that the unluckiest hoarders would still take 12 merges to get to 75%, assuming weapons drop between 25% and 60%).
  • 5 Forma to get to lvl 40 feels really bad. It feels bad on paracesis with 30+ mod space left, it feels worse for weapons that don't need 5 forma to begin with to be useful. 65 forma it's a lot. Like a lot lot. Two would be a lot better. Three to get to 39 and a fourth to get to 40 for the completionists is a lot better. I'm not expecting this to change, but know that it is a bad feeling for almost all players (and many people don't even know you can do it).
• Requiem relics and mods:
  • With Thralls being able to drop relics too, the relic farm feels a lot better. Being able to transmute 4 empty mods into a random full requiem mods is nice. Kuva floods still bugging out is a pain though, hope those get fixed soon.
  • Requiem mods however are annoying. This might be related to the relic system more than the requiem relics, but it feels annoying that the best rewards when you need the mods are uncommon. There is no void trace upgrade that makes uncommon an efficient farm. I would love to see the whole upgrade relic process changed into different steps: stage 0 = current, stage 1 = uncommon chance increased by a lot at the cost of common, stage 2 = rare chance increased by a lot at the cost of common, stage 3 = uncommon and rare chance increased by a lot at the cost of common, but the ratio uncommon:rare is the same as stage 0. Ducat/help farm means stage 3 is nice, dedicated uncommon or rare farm means stage 1 or 2.
  • Part of this is that the rare drop in requiem relics is terrible. Weapon exilus is pretty terrible to begin since it needs to be accompanied by so much forma to even be semi useful, but since you can also get them for 75k standing in syndicates, there is no way I would ever pick one in a requiem relic reward, an MR 20+ generally can farm 2-4 of them every week by just playing the game, and, they are about as limited in use as you can imagine. If it were replaced by built forma I would actually consider running requiem relics more.
  • And the common drops are pretty bad too.. kuva is nice, but niche until we get more things to spend it on (something involving kuva liches/their weapons perhaps). Riven shard is fine. A single amber star is .. well I guess it is more useful than the rare drop.. But why not add a forma blueprint here? In regular relics you always have to weigh ducats vs forma, but for requiem relics.. I would love to be able to get forma, universally useful and already integrated in the kuva lich system (overlevel weapons etc).
  • UX wise the lich - parazon - modding is a pain, a lot of this could be handled better in the UI, I see a lot of feedback on this already, so I'm hoping to beta test some more of this soon™!

I really like the concept of Liches, but right now the system is more than a chore, it's grindy for people who can easily do this content, it's a real pain for people who cannot, especially newer people. This will get a lot worse when the veterans are 'done' with this content, either by gathering everything or just by not participating anymore. I hope some of these suggestions by the players will help make it shine a bit more!

 

[Ethelnalen]

I have only one short suggestion - integrate Liches more into the game. It is in my opinion the biggest mistake you guys did - locking them and progress fr them for their own specific missions which you won't ever do unless specifically grinding for them. I would love to make small progress from thralls spawning in fissures or my Lich showing out of nowhere on normal missions. Then I could actually care about them and not just treat them as weapon sources whenever I feel like grinding.