Dev Workshop - Kuva Lich Changes Coming Soon™

[MazarineL]

Hi can we got the removal of the noises of eletrcity ephemera which dropped from the lich? They are just so annoying. 

(Or get a choice of mute them separately)

[Xaiken-EN-]

I'm liking the changes to come but have one concern. Kuva Lich trading is an interesting change but I'm worried this could become a riven situation where people are trading huge amounts of plat for weapons with the best stats. P2W essentially. The concern is minor since the bonus stat isn't a massive increase in power and its the only one changing based on RNG, but I feel it is a valid one.

[djinnJuice]

Shoutouts to everyone in this thread who also realized that the lich ephemera would be able to be duplicated if you convert a lich that has it.
Secondary shoutout to the fact that nobody at DE is going to read deep enough in this thread to notice, so that we may enjoy the moment where it gets fixed after the fact.

[TheQuartakkMain]

Still, we can't switch between the weak auto and the strong burst fire mode with the kuva Quartakk.

The auto-fire at higher levels is useless and weak compared to the burst fire mode, it needs a small buff to make it actually worth use. 
Please just replace the mechanic with selective fire. People have preferences, some people prefer the auto fire, other prefer the burst fire, let us chose and build around a fire mode what we want to use.  Let's not get stuck with this fire mode switch mechanic. 

Why do we need to aim to get something that we already had with the original Quartakk?

I'm really hoping it will get changed.  It would be a loss if it stays in this state.

Maybe we will see something similar description on the kuva quartakk in the future?

[Amoral_Support]

I think it'd be really fun to see the missions you engage in when on your hunt have an effect on your Lich. 

Sabotages could weaken the liches armor or shields. Spy missions could give you a timed bonus to gaining requim murmurs. Instead of Defense or Survival missions we could have a mission where we bait Liches into an ambush creating an opportunity to test our Requims without having to get one shoted by our lich. Exterminates could give a bonus to enraging our lich.

Its also deeply annoying to load into a mission only to have our squad mates not want to kill their lich. Maybe make interception a mission that gives Tenno time to evade their lich for a couple hours. Like we're tapped into their communications and can avoid them or misdirect if need be. 

Make Lich controlled territory  kinda like the Dawn of War Dark Crusade map. It would feel like im bringing down an adversary's entire army and drawing them out rather than being at their mercy.

[PipBoi]

Aight [DE], we can see you're clearly not interested in mitigating the absolutely onerous RNG for obtaining a full set of weapons (something you could EASILY implement for folks not worried about elemental % who just want to check out the weapons and be on their way) - not a wonderful attitude imo, but whatever. At least with lich trading, players can swap their low % weapons for ones they don't have, lvl them up for MR and get on with their lives.

This is a fair compromise [DE] - in the words of our favorite emperor: DEWIT

[Meesha_Eko]

В 12.11.2019 в 05:28, [DE]Bear сказал:

WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row. While you may get a duplicated weapon down the road, your Kuva Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor.

This doesn't seem like a good idea. For people who are looking to collect all weapons it doesn't help much. And for people who are looking for a better roll on the specific one it is making things worse.

A better idea would be to give player a little more control over this RNG aspect. A possible solution could be to tie the weapon to something similar to how elemental bonus is tied to lich progenitor. Examples:

- tie it to the node on starchart (proposed by H3adsh0t here)
- tie it to weapon used to down the larvling (by class: bow, shotgun, rifle, one hand secondary, two handed secondary, different melee subclasses etc)

Update:

Just wanted to point out some benefits of this approach. It encourages using different weapons, playing different game modes and tilesets. And discovering specific dependencies encencourages community coming together for the task. 

[SQLOwns]

Please allow a way to despawn the lich without having to mercy them.  I think that will fix a lot of toxicity.

[Kageroh]

I don't want to trade my lich with a player. I want to be able to discard it entirely. Who the hell would be willing to "trade" me for a kuva lich with a friggin kraken for example when the kraken is seen as the rightful crappiest weapon in the kuva liches' entire arsenal, if not the entire game?

[GhostJF]

Have an idea
Why don't let Kuva Lich raise with highest LV? Control five planets and choose one be their base.

The planets far from base the mission will be easy(lv50-70),the planets near by base be harder(lv70-90),base planet be hardest(lv90 up)

Lich will only show up in base planet mission(100%),nearby planet mission will only have thralls(more than base).

Clear lich missions will weak the Lich,make Lich LV down(easier to kill) and loss control of nearby planets(mission lv down)

The benefit is an expert player can just challenge base (hardest mission) to kill Lich fast.Normal player and newbie still can kill Lich step by step(weak Lich first)

[Xnidior]

can you please add some requirements for players to be able to join in kuva lich missions? for example :

 

- 3 requiem mods have to be equipped in the parazon

- if a kuva lich spawns, the players have to try their requiem combination, otherwise they will lose murmur as a penalty

 

im really tired of players that ignore their lich, they just decrease the chances to face our lich, making the kuva lich farm too much painful

[BrazilianJoe]

Improve changing Kuva Lich weapon reroll:

When the Kuva Lich is temporarily downed, when 1/3rd of the health bar is depleted, his weapon should fall to the ground.

Player will have the option to strike the Kuva Lich, or his weapon. 

If the player strikes the weapon with the right rune for that step of the kill sequence, the weapon will be destroyed, forcing a weapon reroll using the current warframe as the creator. 

On Kuva Liches: 

Auto-add a marker to the player's own Kuva Lich on the minimap. 

Let multiple Liches spawn at the same time, because players that ignore liches block the progress of others. 

If a player is ignoring the Lich, that player cannot extract. Lich must go away first. This would require to let players extract individually on all mission types.

[Jackie..Quilt]

Make a mark for calling lychees as for Stalker or Wolf. Your system not working. Many players have already killed 20+ Kuva lich, received new weapons and duplicates.
They game gave me just one lich for the whole time.
No more messages from kuva guardian. Run the mission, again, again and again - got a complete ZERO. Really started HATE new content.

[The-Almighty]

On 2019-11-12 at 7:28 AM, [DE]Bear said:

• WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row. While you may get a duplicated weapon down the road, your Kuva Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor.
•  

This is downright useless. It just makes the slap in the face feels less like a slap right in the face but it's still a slap in the face nonetheless.

On 2019-11-12 at 7:28 AM, [DE]Bear said:

• RECYCLE YOUR REQUIEM - 4 Defiled Requiem Mods can now be Transmuted into a random, fully charged, Requiem Mod. This gives them some additional use, as well as helping you clean up your inventory.

At least it's something. One or two tweaks and could be actually something worth of looking foward.

On 2019-11-12 at 7:28 AM, [DE]Bear said:

• TRADE YOUR LICH - If you have a Converted Kuva Lich, you may trade them with another player, who may be looking for a specific Kuva Lich Weapon or Ephemera. This system will be coming soon, including the use of a brand new Dojo Room inspired by the early ‘War Room’ design from the King Pin System!

No one would want my 21% impact tonkor that i made by mistake. This is not going to fix anything but make this into another Riven Market, haven't you guys learned anything about how absurd the Riven Market is?

On 2019-11-12 at 7:28 AM, [DE]Bear said:

• MORE TO COME - We are looking at other ways in which we can make the Kuva Lich system more rewarding and unique, although there is still a lot of internal discussion surrounding the ‘hows’ while maintaining the design intent. More on this as it is finalized.

No words about the insane grindfest of murmurs? The fact that helping someone with their Lich on a co-op squad is nothing but hassle without rewards? No way to prevent getting duplicate weapons at all? No words about people's choice actually affecting our progress such as not killing their own Lich?

What's the design intent? Insane grindfest that feels like nothing but a boring chore? I genuinely want to know what is their design intent, i'm curious now.
 

[-MElHiOR-]

В 12.11.2019 в 01:34, LSG501 сказал:

No change to the necessary wasting of 5 forma for full xp from kuva weapons due to them going to rank 40 for no real reason.... funny that....

RECYCLE YOUR REQUIEM - Personally I'd prefer their limited use to just be totally removed or at the very least increased quite considerably over the current 3 uses, it would lower the overall amount of rng and grind necessary far more than this change will...

Agreed... Paracesis gets bonus stats for each forma, that makes some sense why player must insert 5 forma except bonus lvl and capacity... Maybe DE implement base damge stats increase fo each forma? Something like 5% per forma?

[scramblegs]

Quote

 Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row

Can we get this for Lich personalities too? All 3 of the Liches I've generated had the same "funny guy" personality. I assume there are other personalities, but getting 3 liches in a row that use identical voice lines really breaks the immersion.

[shieldb]

I think overall, my impressions when chatting with friends is that the new system is fun overall, but could use some systems design improvement and other improvement around the edges. On the "around the edges" front, it'd be neat if the male / female voice folks did each other's lines so it wasn't a guaranteed "male = not so serious / female = serious" dialog (e.g. 4 total possibilities, no new subtitle localization required). Adding more dialog sets every few months seems like an easy way to add dramatically more to how it feels without more "seriously impactful" dev time (e.g. no new systems design, loot table / power balancing, etc).

On the weapon drop front, I feel like what's missing the most here (versus the rest of Warframe) is player agency. If I wanted to farm Saryn Prime (not counting plat trading), I know what I need to do. I may not have great RNG luck with getting the correct relics or correct parts out of the relics, but I can at least make focused effort towards that goal. With the lich weapon system if I'm just looking for weapons I don't have, there's literally nothing that I can do to influence that chance, which is real frustrating. I'm working on my 16th lich having seen 7 unique weapons, but I've had strings of 2 and 4 dupes in a row where the duplicates were not the exact previous weapon (e.g. my first three were Ogris -> Kohm -> Ogris). At 90-120m-ish per "roll" for me (not sure if that's fast, average, or slow, I'm probably bad 😋), that's a real bummer when a duplicate of a previous weapon rolls next. So far I've actually ended up pretty much exactly on average for the math, but it doesn't feel super great when a dupe shows up (especially if it's a lower % roll dupe) - I just have another couple hours of work in the system before I can roll again. With the proposed "previous weapon dupe protection" it's slightly better math, but you're effectively looking at a 1/12 chance instead of a 1/13 chance as you go on for an unseen weapon:

Needed	%	Tries (avg)	Total (avg)	% (new)	Tries (new)	Total (new)
1	7.69	13	48	8.33	12	42
2	15.38	7	35	16.67	6	30
3	23.08	5	28	25.00	4	24
4	30.77	4	23	33.33	3	20
5	38.46	3	19	41.67	3	17
6	46.15	3	16	50.00	2	14
7	53.85	2	13	58.33	2	12
8	61.54	2	11	66.67	2	10
9	69.23	2	9	75.00	2	8
10	76.92	2	7	83.33	2	6
11	84.62	2	5	91.67	2	4
12	92.31	2	3	100.00	1	2
13	100.00	1	1	100.00	1	1

With all that said, I guess the other thing that'd be nice is knowing what the intent is for the new system - are we intended to spend a few hundred hours to get all the weapons, or is the intent that all the weapons should come "relatively" quickly and it's just ephemera / perfect roll farming that takes hundreds of hours for interested folks?

There's a ton of real good stuff with the lich system already, so it'll be nice to see how everything shakes out given time for measured adjustments to it!

[Muntyness]

OK, so there's a new dojo room coming. As there are clans that already have 100 rooms and dont really want to delete what they already have, will we get an increase the the dojo room limit?

Also reduce the amount of murmers needed for Lichs. The current 130 amount is way to much and just kills any fun with the new enemies.

[Cazzzz]

While Im glad to see most of these changes, can we please get some more info on this lich trading? Having to fully CONVERT a lich, give it to someone else, and then kill/convert a second time just to get one full kill/convert out of it sounds like a serious pain. While I understand that it shouldn't be as easy and throwing a lich at your friend and they throw one back, effectively making it two liches worth of hassle sounds, frankly, awful.

 

Additionally, if you are GENUINELY trying to simplify the weapon hunting process, why not make it so that landing a killing blow with a certain weapon results in a certain weapon to generate, such as the frame generates the element and abilities of the lich. This would ALSO open up room for more Kuva weapons to be added into the game, and long-term could make the system more worth returning to.

[Joltyboi]

1 hour ago, Cazzzz said:

Additionally, if you are GENUINELY trying to simplify the weapon hunting process, why not make it so that landing a killing blow with a certain weapon results in a certain weapon to generate

if theyve been saying they want to simplify it, i feel like thats coming out of their a$$es, i love DE and i love warframe, but i cant just pretend its not, if they REALLY wanted to simplify it no way in hell the thought of just making the larva use the weapon its going to use when it becomes a lich wouldnt have crossed their minds, they HAD to have thought of that, but they chose not to implement it to make it harder for people, it would still be RNG on top of RNG, but if the larva used the weapon it was going to use when it became a lich all youde have to do is down the larva, look at its weapon and mercy it to turn it into a lich if you want its weapon or just leave and try again until you get the one you want instead of having to go through the slog of dealing with a lich you dont want for the millionth time before trying for a weapon you actually want again

think about it, all these easy and simple solutions people are coming up with have to have crossed SOMEONES mind at DE between them coming up with the idea of the liches and now, yet theyre talking about "internally discussing how to improve the lich system and move forward" and blah blah blah, not a single thing theyve come out with has been in the player feedback thread they made, so far the majority of what theyve hotfixed has made a few things better only to "FiX a BuG" and make things worse again, sure you could say lich trading has been implemented from player feedback, but theyve had the idea of a lich "bounty board" system since before the lich update came out, if theyre actually taking player feedback and implementing it into the game they should specifically state which part of an update was player feedback in the patch notes and quote a few comments of the suggestions to prove it

[Kaminali]

11 lich, 4 different weapon, i have just get a new lich with a crap archwing weapon (5 time i get the arcwhing weapon...), i can't even find motivation for killed/convert them anymore...

[chaotea]

On 2019-11-11 at 10:28 PM, [DE]Bear said:

TRADE YOUR LICH

Does this mean we will get an option to 'Vanquish' a converted lich? This would be a good safety net for anyone who accidentally converts when the wanted a weapon.

[tennomantra]

This is great news. I only hope that players who have been religiously farming liches since the update and are now in the double digits of their vanquishes, won't feel like they've been wasting time and have something new to enjoy.

[DoomFruit]

4 hours ago, The-Almighty said:

haven't you guys learned anything about how absurd the Riven Market is?

Oh, they most certainly have. They see scammers the rip-off merchants charging thousands of plat for a single mod, and they see idiots actually biting that lure.

They've learned that they can use it to get money from the playerbase. So, if it's working there, why not try to make the "magic" happen again somewhere else?

[MPonder]

Another day, another lich, another stubbas, waiting for the "Stubba, Ogris, Stubba, Ogris" great Hotfix.