Does DE confuse RNG+Grind with Challenge?

[DreisterDino]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb --Aegis--MR9:

You are playing the wrong game mate, if rng isnt your thing. 

I am pretty sure RNG is not the selling point and main attraction of Warframe 😉

And if you read my post again you will see that i already said that i am ok with RNG,

but like everything in life there are limits and they clearly went over the top here imo.

 

vor 18 Stunden schrieb SordidDreams:

What she doesn't seem to realize is that with content drops and content droughts, the game is at least fun sometimes. With content stretched this thin with this much grind, it's fun never. I suspect that the reason why she doesn't realize that is because she's just looking at concurrency and other player base stats

I agree with this. But i really dont understand some of the players in this case and i think they are part of the problem.

Many people dont really like the new system - but at the same time they have already done like ~20 liches 🤨

Even if DE would have data that every second player hates the update...when the same players played like 3 hours each day on average (raising steam-player count) and payed ~900 plat for the Lich-Bundle and maybe even more for the new skins and weapons (generating new plat sales in the longterm), should or can they even take us serious?

  

vor 1 Stunde schrieb CTanGod:

The problem is that in online games or in MMOs you need to create player retention somehow, if players can quickly chew through all the content available and get all the best gear in a short amount of time

I did a rough calculation in an earlier reply, let me quote myself:
 

"Well, lets say we could "chose" the weapon they are carrying.

This would be a huge step in removing some RNG from this system already.

Still, just to get all 13 weapons you will need between ~50 and ~60 hours (if the rest of the system remains untouched)

And that is just the primary goal, many players are probably going after the Ephemeras and better Stats as real long term goals after that."

 

This amount of time cannot be considered "quickly chewing through content".

For a Player who plays like 1 hour each day, this is 2 months of content.

Edited November 27, 2019 by DreisterDino

[IIDMOII]

I agree and then some op.

There is a distinct and noticeable trend with the content. It's all artificially padded. And it starts to grate after awhile.

The liches aren't a challenge. Unless you wastefully rank it up to 5. At which point it turns into an exercise in bullet sponge frustration for the EXACT same reward as the rank 1 lich. That's not a challenge, that's a troll. 

The challenge here is to ignore the intended loop (because it's broken and makes no sense), play solo and ignore the lich entirely until you're ready. Same reward but it's faster and more manageable.

Trying to find ways to speed up padded content isn't a challenge. Especially if it's a fake troll system like ranking up your lich.

There's obviously something missing. There had to be a purpose for the lich ranking up. There had to have been a reason they wanted us to intentionally fail. There had to be a reason for the liches showing up before we are ready. None of it makes any sense. 

Until they offer up a valid reason, I'm going to assume the liches presence before I'm ready to fight him is either a bug or a really silly oversight.

As of now, there isn't any logical reason for the lich to appear at all. They should reside on an assassination node, where you opt-in to confront them.

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by IIDMOII

[SordidDreams]

1 hour ago, DreisterDino said:

I agree with this. But i really dont understand some of the players in this case and i think they are part of the problem.

Many people dont really like the new system - but at the same time they have already done like ~20 liches 🤨

Even if DE would have data that every second player hates the update...when the same players played like 3 hours each day on average (raising steam-player count) and payed ~900 plat for the Lich-Bundle and maybe even more for the new skins and weapons (generating new plat sales in the longterm), should or can they even take us serious?

I'm one of those people, so maybe I can shed some light. Yes, the update got me to play WF more than I did before. But I'm not having fun, I'm just grinding this out with my teeth clenched to get it done while chatting with friends on Discord to distract myself from the sheer tediousness of it. Why even do it? Because I've spent years playing this game, seeing all kinds of changes happen to it, so I just keep playing out of habit, hoping that it'll get better again. But it's burning me out, I can feel it.

And I think that's why they should take us seriously. Because they're burning customer goodwill in order to get a short-term boost. Kinda like a food company that changes the recipe of a product to a sh*ttier version. Yeah, that boosts profits for a while because the product costs less to make while costing the same to buy, but eventually people catch on and stop buying it. That's where I am right now, in that transitional phase when you realize something's wrong but you're not quite ready to switch yet, so you just keep doing the same thing for the time being while you make up your mind. Except food companies are all giant conglomerates where dozens of brands and thousands of products are all owned by the same company, so they can afford to juggle people between brands and products like that. DE only has one product, they can't afford to drive people away from it.

Overall this update feels like something designed by someone who just looks at stats all day and wants to get the concurrency numbers as high as possible at any cost. I know the whole "DE don't play their own game" thing is something of a meme, but this honestly feels like it more than perhaps any other update before. It's an update designed to keep you busy rather than to keep you entertained. Steve said in an interview with Mogamu that online games don't die a sudden death, their lives have more of a parabolic shape to them, and I think you can see that if you look at the Steamcharts graph of Warframe: https://steamcharts.com/app/230410#All Looks to me like we're past the zenith and starting the long slow slide downhill. Now of course that's before this year's big update, so we'll see if DE can pull it back. I do hope so, I don't want this game to drive me away.

Edited November 27, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Skaleek]

1 hour ago, SordidDreams said:

I'm one of those people, so maybe I can shed some light. Yes, the update got me to play WF more than I did before. But I'm not having fun, I'm just grinding this out with my teeth clenched to get it done while chatting with friends on Discord to distract myself from the sheer tediousness of it.

I think this is a very common sentiment among established players. My brother and I are having the same issue. It's not fun, it's more like: let's get it over with and hold our breath for empyrean and hope that the new game mode is refreshing and fun to play. We play it because we've invested 5+ years into warframe and we want the new toys (kuva weapons, ephemera).

Although i will say, the huge kuva cosmetic pack is the first and only cosmetic market item I havent purchased. (I own everything else available in the market, sans tennogen)

[Kimimoto]

12 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Forum join date is somewhen in 2017. So from their perspective it's probably true.

kek, you right

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

On 2019-11-26 at 12:57 PM, AgonoizeOP said:

There is a reason for this hell layers of rng and grinding. Not fun and challenging content. Its money...

But is there even any monitization behind the Kuva Lich system? Yeah there's the big Lich Hunter pack for 800p, but that's mostly cosmetics.

[Gurpgork]

20 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

But is there even any monitization behind the Kuva Lich system?

There is now that lich contracts can be traded. Want a specific weapon with a good roll in the damage type you want, but don't want to go through the agonizing grind and layers of RNG? Now you can fork over 500 platinum to some prick on trade chat and skip that headache. 

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

Just now, Gurpgork said:

There is now that lich contracts can be traded. Want a specific weapon with a good roll in the damage type you want, but don't want to go through the agonizing grind and layers of RNG? Now you can fork over 500 platinum to some prick on trade chat and skip that headache. 

But that's just trading and doesn't directly make profit for DE.

[Gurpgork]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Erudite Prime said:

But that's just trading and doesn't directly make profit for DE.

It does, though. Trading is absolutely an incentive to buy more platinum, as other players can sell you so many things that the market cannot. Players also sell items that are significantly more expensive than anything on the market. Like I've seen riven mods that go for 4k, and the most expensive thing I've ever seen on the market was less than a quarter of that. 

So trading really is a monetization system. It's a place you can go to buy things that are incredibly powerful, unavailable in the market, and cost hundreds of dollars worth of platinum. Like if there is that strong of an incentive to turn to trading, then there are absolutely people who buy platinum specifically to buy items from other players. 

[SneakyErvin]

I'm pretty sure they had an idea behind it to actually make it a challenging fight, then someone came up with the Lich insta-kill finisher move and they thought that would be cooler, which it isnt. The whole fight is as trivial as anything else in the game that is supposed to be "endgame" or "high level".

I think I've died (really died through a mistake and not the mandatory "herpa derp you failed to match the mod combo" death) to a lich one time because I forgot to switch to a proper loadout when it was level 5. Then I switched to the proper loadout and the next time the lich spanwed it was dead within 10 seconds.

It just feels like DE is slightly out of touch with what us Tenno can do with our warframes and what options we have when it comes to warframes. This also shows that the scaling system of the game is in a horrible state and needs a complete overhaul. Maybe then we can get a good encounter going.

I mean I still enjoy the setup of the Lich system and think that the RNG is fairly well balanced for a mode intended as endgame. However, the challenge of the fight is lacking and the auto death on mod combo failure is a very bad design decision. If they'd actually manage to work out how to make the fights challenging while also removing the horrible death mechanic I'd probably say the mod is spot on. But as it is now, with a Lich at rank 5 going down as fast as a Nox in the mission, I'd say it is far from spot on.

I think the most threatening or challenging part of Lich encounters are the other players, cos one of them might have spawned a Lich with radiation procs in his kits.

[kapn655321]

3 Parts.
It's a placeholder for better implementation to replace it later.
It's a business model in order to be able to keep things humming along.
It keeps people engaged while they continue to develop.

That's how I see it anyways.

Once the whole story, and things imagined from the very beginning are actually finally in, done, and fully realized,
then they'll have little else to do but bug fix, and play with the whole resource/drop table system/balance of what they have made.

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

It does, though. Trading is absolutely an incentive to buy more platinum, as other players can sell you so many things that the market cannot. Players also sell items that are significantly more expensive than anything on the market. Like I've seen riven mods that go for 4k, and the most expensive thing I've ever seen on the market was less than a quarter of that. 

So trading really is a monetization system. It's a place you can go to buy things that are incredibly powerful, unavailable in the market, and cost hundreds of dollars worth of platinum. Like if there is that strong of an incentive to turn to trading, then there are absolutely people who buy platinum specifically to buy items from other players. 

But trading with players still means that the plat stay in circulation, so you arent in an actual need to introduce more plat into the market when you can just trade back the same plat you just spent. It would only be a true monetization system if DE taxed us on our trades, which they dont, the game only has a credit tax. Sure, DE can profit on a select few whales, but when it comes to the general player and given how easy it is to obtain "free" plat, there is little reason to spend money in order to buy from the player market. There are always things to sell in order to earn the "free" plat.

[Teridax68]

Unfortunately, I don't think the intended purpose of Kuva Liches was to provide a challenge, really -- the multiple layers of frustrating RNG in the system, and the option to pay to bypass them that conveniently popped up post-launch, all point to them being designed to be time-consuming at best, and deliberately frustrating in order to force out real-money payments at worst.

More generally, though, I can agree that far too much of Warframe's content is RNG-dependent: I'd say I'm pretty tolerant overall of grinding, otherwise I wouldn't be playing this game (in fact, I enjoy grinding consistently towards a reward), but RNG frustrates me for a whole bunch of reasons: because of its very nature, it makes me feel like any run where I don't get the reward I played for is a run wasted, and so because "failing" the run brings me no closer to obtaining the reward than before. Moreover, it also leads to this feeling of failure, even when the result is completely arbitrary. The worst part of it, though, is that it feels transparently manipulative: not everyone may necessarily know of Skinner boxes and variable reward schedules, but even if one is vaguely familiar with the concept of slot machines, it quickly becomes apparent that much of Warframe's content plays like one of them in terms of rewards, except instead of money, the player pays with their time (but also often gets to pay money to skip the time investment).

If this were a few years ago, I'd perhaps give it a pass, because there was a time where Warframe really needed a way to pad itself out and monetize its content as it grew on a free-to-play model. The same no longer applies now, however: the game has clearly proven to be tremendously successful, to the point where DE has been able to afford lavish art assets on a whole bunch of features, ranging from its umpteenth lighting overhaul to a gorgeous six-minute cinematic trailer led by a big-name director. It's clearly not the small, hungry game it once was, which means it now also needs to be held to its current standard: there is no longer any real excuse for Warframe to artificially pad out its every bit of content with RNG grinding, because it's got a lot more content than most AAA games at this point, and even most other MMOs. Similarly, much of its once-acceptable monetization around gameplay boosts has become less so, to say nothing of the genuine ethical problems posed by the Riven and now Lich trading markets.

We can't keep making excuses for Warframe's unsustainable design pattern of releasing features in isolation that grind the player to boredom, then get abandoned and forgotten, when the devs should be looking for ways to tie its vast suite of content together. By that same token, we also can't defend the practice of intentionally downgrading the game's quality of play with the expectation that players are to make up the difference with money, as is the case when DE releases a monstrously grindy and unfun Kuva Lich system, then ties them and their rewards into the player market where Plat circulates freely. As such, I'm fully with the OP in that we should stop being so complacent about RNG in Warframe, and should certainly not act as if its worsening degrees of grind being added to it are something that's just natural and to be accepted unquestioningly.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Teridax68

[Midas]

No they don't

They just ignore us and keep doing it because money.

[Libpea]

On 2019-11-27 at 1:38 PM, Avienas said:

Honestly the point is that D.E. is spending too much time on the `Power` of the enemies and need to more focus on the `Design` instead. Have enemies be creative AI where its more then them just blindly rushing you to melee you or fire shots at you. Have certain enemy types follow logic and have certain actions be exploitable by knowing them. Such as maybe a bunch of shootie based enemies will gather around/behind a enemy that deploys a barricade shield or something, Where the design turns into them being a huddled group o turret`age, making it difficult to just pick them apart or rush them with melee, with the weakness could be doing something like a ground slam melee attack to semi C.C. them then proceed to butcher them while they are stunned or straight up chuck something like a vauban bastille to get that perfect setup to YEET`m.

I still honestly would adore it if D.E. were to reduce enemy spawns by about 20 to 40% & less annoying durability/damage they dish out, but have the various units have smarter thinking methods, that way we could get more rewarded by being mobile or even making use of `cover` and even C.C. actions to handle them, then just using the Musou + infinite scaling formula til they out-scale our damage/durability thresholds.

If i had to do a useful comparison, you could use Left for Dead as a prime example of this logic, where there could be special enemy types which you have to actually take special measures of handling or they could cause enough of a disruption that could result in you being mowed down. If D.E. had these more unique enemies appear less but have a impact when they are present, instead of the swarms of bursas/nullifiers/ancients/bombards/noxes & especially Eximus units that could flood into the missions with ease, i would rather we would sometimes get one or a few of these might appear and they provide a buff to enemy units, similar to warframe auras (aka like how ancients work).

That way the goal then turns into killing that `leader unit` to weaken the mob units or have to stomach thru those enhanced units, which would become slightly more annoying to deal with.

 

I wont disagree with you, but we as players often miss many aspects. Yes, we want a lot of things, and DE definitely wants a lot of thing too, but there are too many aspects players need to know too: how a game is made? do u know about programing (limitation of coding language and current computing system of general population)?  how many people are working on this game?  are we looking at the game as veteran or all kinds of players at the same time?

Contents are made within months and players try all their best to complete it within a week, mostly just for mastery rank. Just like a movie, often taking 18 months to make with 600-1000 people working on it and we watch in less than 2h and then forget about it. Until we see all the behind the scene, know all about the movie making, casting, VFX,... then we can appreciate the work we see. And because of that, the more complaining the player, the less he knows about things. And not until he understands, he only gives out what he thinks is right without considering the integrity of all other aspects.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Libpea

[Avienas]

2 hours ago, Libpea said:

I wont disagree with you, but we as players often miss many aspects. Yes, we want a lot of things, and DE definitely wants a lot of thing too, but there are too many aspects players need to know too: how a game is made? do u know about programing (limitation of coding language and current computing system of general population)?  how many people are working on this game?  are we looking at the game as veteran or all kinds of players at the same time?

Thar`s a reason i normally do not want to go to NUTTY in what i demand as viable solutions to greatly improve a game, but when a game is clearly getting the F`d situation on on proper polish, then many things are going to occur like players being alot more THIRSTY for proper content then being stuck with the same old stuff.

Plus i have seen plenty of games repeat what is basically the same old formula they used in the beginning but thru extensions of design and creative tweaks, they could keep that same formula working almost near-indefinitely. Pokemon being a rather prime example of such when it had been using the same base formula for so many versions, but because they normally did quite a `reinventing the same formula` motif, it manage to work for so many years. 

I believe in another thread i mentioned that D.E. could take older content like the syndicates, tidy up the mess they are and then have them associated as random `BONUS OBJECTIVES` that could spawn in normal missions, which would lead to both more involvement with the syndicates and a active bonus for having one or more of them at high ranks, where its entirely optional to do such things, but doing such could give additional rewards OR it could give bonuses that assist towards completing the main objective faster or with less hassle. Some simple examples being:

• Doing a bonus objective for New Loka in a survival mission could have them spawn an extra 3 life support capsules for you or increase the amount of life support you get from drops & capsules by 50% extra.
• Clearing a bunch of special enemies for Red Veil in a exterminate mission before a timer is up and they vanish, could result in some Red Veil operatives coming in to lend a hand and they do something like Ash`s bladestorm and utterly delete 30 or so mob enemies, drastically speeding up you finishing the exterminate.
• Holding down all 4 interception points for say, 30 seconds, could motivate Perrin Sequence to `invest` some turrets that could C.C. enemies away from the nodes or even lock enemies from being able to capture interception towers for while in interception missions.

They already can spawn death squads, lock mobile defense console timers, `change of plans` missions mid-way so a capture or spy can become exterminate and so on. Plus they already pull side-objective like activites with kuva survival, fissures & so on. So they technically have the capability to do more interesting things, that would likely not require much to build off of, when the frame work `already` exist. Especially when we had things like Incursions `bonus missions` before on plains of eidolon.

Quote

Contents are made within months and players try all their best to complete it within a week, mostly just for mastery rank. Just like a movie, often taking 18 months to make with 600-1000 people working on it and we watch in less than 2h and then forget about it. Until we see all the behind the scene, know all about the movie making, casting, VFX,... then we can appreciate the work we see. And because of that, the more complaining the player, the less he knows about things. And not until he understands, he only gives out what he thinks is right without considering the integrity of all other aspects.

This is why i feel D.E. needs to focus more on functionality bonuses then just slapping in extra game modes. Quality of life improvements that make existing content feel better can last alot longer then just tacking in another grind section which will be as easy to drop as syndicate missions, index, sortie, bounties, orb-mother bosses, etc. Which i could likely point out a few games that got a major 180 degree flip on being annoyed by particular systems to suddenly liking them with something as simple as one change.

I would not say im a expert to know every element involved in game design, but i would like to believe i have a decent understanding of particular things.

1. Can the content be made used with existing assets or do completely new ones need to be used for it? A good deal of content including Arbitations, Disruption, Kuva Liches, etc. fall in the half&half quota because most of it is recycling existing content with the other half including voicing, gameplay elements, new enemies, weapons & loot. But if you check a few others, some content was basically made nearly 100% from existing content.
2. Can the content skip out on plenty of elements that could be added later? Sure, though i am a fan of how pretty much nearly all new content involves voice acting and some new elements, it would not be that difficult for them to take advantage of older recorded voice lines and basically using the template of any endless mission and simply add a bonus attribute that does not need any voice ques to mention something like `you just opened a relic, finish your mission to see what`s inside` quips. 

 

Anyway this is normally why i would prefer to keep my `comments` to minimalistic approach, on what could be done to warframe that could vastly boost the enjoyment. Just having Void traces get MULTIPLIED based on how many players are in your group when you hit that 10th reactant, is certainly alot better then relying on people to pick your relic to get a fixed number of traces, which could be less then 1/3rd of the traces you got in that rotation per person who pick and no real indication is shown if the resource booster can affect the `relic share bonus traces`, meaning that 1/20th bonus traces pick has a neglible impact on usefulness, especially when one might want to go thru multiple radiant relics, not just one a day.

The same could be applied to why is the `endless fissure bonuses` not applied to `regular endless bonuses`, while also WHY is credit & affinity boosters part of the relic fissure bonus, when they serve zero real effective purpose. It should honestly be +25% resources per 5 waves PERIOD, while you get in addition to another +25% resource bonus on wave 5, you ALSO get a relic. Instead of it clogging that 5th slot for a `relic`, which most likely rather see it as a middle finger to them when they already have 500+ neo relics or so.

If D.E. took the time to polish and fix the design of the systems it keeps leaving out to die, before moving onto newer ones that would also be left to die after they are done with them, then D.E. could make sure said game-play mechanics would be FUTURE PROOF`D for a long period of time and could keep players engaged, then feeling that burn out sooner, before they acquire what they want.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Avienas

[Fl_3]

I'm just spreading this about to try and get it noticed, but what the player base needs is a firm comment from Digital Extremes with regards to any possible future changes to the Kuva Lich/RNG wall system they seem to be implementing of late.

There are people out there on social media who have completed 30,40,50 liches and people out there who haven't even managed to complete one due to the atrocious RNG wall and the one mod then need not dropping.

People seem to be either burning themselves out spamming Liches as much as possible, or burning out because the RNG simply will not roll in their favour and they're stuck with a Lich that (until it does) they have no counter to. 

Come on DE, how can you just ignore the people who are playing your game like this?

Give us some answers please.

[DreisterDino]

Am 27.11.2019 um 18:25 schrieb SordidDreams:

I'm one of those people, so maybe I can shed some light. Yes, the update got me to play WF more than I did before. But I'm not having fun, I'm just grinding this out with my teeth clenched to get it done while chatting with friends on Discord to distract myself from the sheer tediousness of it. Why even do it? Because I've spent years playing this game, seeing all kinds of changes happen to it, so I just keep playing out of habit, hoping that it'll get better again. But it's burning me out, I can feel it.

Ok, i can understand that in some way, habits are hard to overcome,

and oh boy do i know this "i hope it gets better" feeling, there is just so much potential in this game.

At the same time, i have the feeling that this game will always stay "potentially good" but will never reach perfection.

 

For example: Plains of Eidolon is 2 years old now and Orb Vallis is 1 year old.

While they are a nice addition, there is so much wasted potential which makes them mostly a huge monotonous grind.

Since their releases i am hoping for DE to make these places awesome, alive and diverse.

 

For 1 year now i am posting ideas in a Thread with things which can possibly make them better, and for 1 year nothing like that happened.

Some of my ideas are really complex and i understand why they dont do stuff like that when they already have problems sticking to their schedules.

But stuff like adding more different BountyMissions to make the grind less monotonous shouldnt take them 2 years and doesnt take a lot of work.

Just in case you are curious, ill leave the link to the topic in a Spoiler below, i am basically the only one posting there but i would like to see ideas of other players aswell 😛

Spoiler

 

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by DreisterDino

[Orblit]

The game is the grind, people seem to forget that.

[Libpea]

12 hours ago, Avienas said:

Anyway this is normally why i would prefer to keep my `comments` to minimalistic approach, on what could be done to warframe that could vastly boost the enjoyment. Just having Void traces get MULTIPLIED based on how many players are in your group when you hit that 10th reactant, is certainly alot better then relying on people to pick your relic to get a fixed number of traces, which could be less then 1/3rd of the traces you got in that rotation per person who pick and no real indication is shown if the resource booster can affect the `relic share bonus traces`, meaning that 1/20th bonus traces pick has a neglible impact on usefulness, especially when one might want to go thru multiple radiant relics, not just one a day.

I like your attitude, it;s not ranting but really contributing. Though I may say, i hardly understand your sharing 😀, simply because we are different with our brains, as our society is composed of many kinds of people to do different jobs. Mine is just focusing on the big picture of things, and yours is to focusing on the details and numbers, i cant see the details and details boggle my mind and I tend to remind people of the bigger prospect so we can all contribute to the creativity.

I must admit, DE should give more into designing new things as they already know, like  they said "Fortuna is an island", people come and go and forget about it. That;s the proof they know, not like people often say "DE dont listen", simply they just considering and trying if it works. For many times, the new updates mess up with the old, which shows how program coding is often contradicting itself. So sometimes, the easiest thing cant be integrated because it can mess up with the whole existing coding.

I touch mostly everything in the game on daily basis except Fortuna, there is nothing to do there. And as they knew, they are trying to connect elements in the game for a while and in the upcoming update. Although there are still many things not very satisfying, but I like the game more now than last year, and I hope it will get better as we all want and desire.

I had some burn-out too, but then I realized it was because I focused on the result, the prize that burnt me out. And with this new melee, i began to enjoy the gameplay, trying all the melee and stances with different frames, and since then I began to enjoy the game, and i dont care about result anymore. But the fun fact is, the more I dont care about the result, the faster I get all the stuff, it;s how irony life is 🤣

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Libpea

[Avienas]

7 hours ago, Libpea said:

I like your attitude, it;s not ranting but really contributing. Though I may say, i hardly understand your sharing 😀, simply because we are different with our brains, as our society is composed of many kinds of people to do different jobs. Mine is just focusing on the big picture of things, and yours is to focusing on the details and numbers, i cant see the details and details boggle my mind and I tend to remind people of the bigger prospect so we can all contribute to the creativity.

I must admit, DE should give more into designing new things as they already know, like  they said "Fortuna is an island", people come and go and forget about it. That;s the proof they know, not like people often say "DE dont listen", simply they just considering and trying if it works. For many times, the new updates mess up with the old, which shows how program coding is often contradicting itself. So sometimes, the easiest thing cant be integrated because it can mess up with the whole existing coding.

I touch mostly everything in the game on daily basis except Fortuna, there is nothing to do there. And as they knew, they are trying to connect elements in the game for a while and in the upcoming update. Although there are still many things not very satisfying, but I like the game more now than last year, and I hope it will get better as we all want and desire.

I had some burn-out too, but then I realized it was because I focused on the result, the prize that burnt me out. And with this new melee, i began to enjoy the gameplay, trying all the melee and stances with different frames, and since then I began to enjoy the game, and i dont care about result anymore. But the fun fact is, the more I dont care about the result, the faster I get all the stuff, it;s how irony life is 🤣

 

Melee definitely was an improvement since all i use now is Fang Prime due to it feeling a more enjoyable flow & only need primed reach for a good range value only(and not need to rely on the melee weapon itself for range), especially due to its absurd combo count generation with spinning needle, its one of those melee weapons who can take advantage of what i call will be the new crit meta: `Sacrifical Steel+Blood rush`, where post-hotfix, you reach around a 80%~ base crit and blood rush gets to around 15.6% crit chance per tier, meaning you can hit auto yellow crits and reach orange crits very fast with mobs & sturdier targets. Plus still can rock a good status line & dual elemental.

I do not touch as many dailies these due to having to focus on particular things and RL responsibilities towards other things. Hence why i do not worry on syndicates, sortie, simaris and other daily bits. Its usually just start a new forma, purge the nightwaves & try to get a kuva lich a day since i shifted down from 2 liches a day to around 1 every 1 to 2 days. Plus now im trying to make sure the clan i recently joined are prepared for building the Crimson branch & Dry docks in the dojo, when the former is prob going to be within the next 6 or so days and the latter maybe within early next month.

 

Focusing on the journey is a good way to avoid the burn out, but never the less, if there is only one `real` thing to get at the end, and you 100% know what your getting with little-to-no capability to manipulate how fast you can finish it up. Well its no wonder why people were salty on both PC & Console when they respectively did not have `crimson branch` at first with old blood. Which also does not help that i still have to grind said weapon to fully try it out to confirm if its a good & fun weapon, which Kuva Quartakk fits that bill in many ways, but i am still not a fan it took me 13 kuva liches, to get my 8th `unique` kuva weapon, because i had to get 5 duplicates, and now 14th lich decided to give me a 6th duplicate weapon. Yet i still have not gotten the new melee, primary and what the other 3 kuva variants i am still missing, If D.E. is going to have us start having a even `harder` grind to get to said weapons, i feel they need to update simulacrum to let us TRY weapons out to see what they are like, so we atleast know if we should put said weapons on the priority list or if we should put them off when we are going to grind for MR. No one enjoys getting a shiny new tool after putting some effort into getting, only to realize its utter garbage even when fully modded.

[(XBOX)xBLADEPANTHERx]

On 2019-11-26 at 9:02 PM, DreisterDino said:

+ to get it to 60% we have to do a few "special missions", for example missions in which the Lich is there the whole time

I was thinking that the materials it steals from you could actually be used by the lich in order to buff its weapon damage, armour etc, so it's a shame that it doesn't

Edited November 29, 2019 by (XB1)xBLADEPANTHERx

[Avienas]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)xBLADEPANTHERx said:

I was thinking that the materials it steals from you could actually be used by the lich in order to buff its weapon damage, armour etc, so it's a shame that it doesn't

Honestly that would be more scummy since D.E. already walked a tight rope and manage to barely `not` fall, by letting us recover the resources. Still say it should of gave bonus resources based on its rank, but Guess we can`t rely on D.E. to understand if your going to have a mob able to PILFER your goods, a real dang reason better exist besides just giving us another way to earn some new guns to exist. Since i do not really recall any other content which did similar things, besides maybe Index, but thats with only credits and we know how neglible those things can be later on once one learns how to grind for goods.

[Mikaer88]

On 2019-11-28 at 12:42 AM, IIDMOII said:

Unless you wastefully rank it up to 5. At which point it turns into an exercise in bullet sponge frustration for the EXACT same reward as the rank 1 lich.

I haven't killed one yet but Jesus H. Christ it's worse than I thought.

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, Orblit said:

The game is the grind, people seem to forget that.

While true, it still isnt what DE hyped with Liches. They actually put weight on claiming it was the most challenging fight ever seen in the game. Yet the liches are based around RNG with zero real mechanics or challenging combat systems. A Mesa ends them as fast as if not faster than she downs a Nox in the same mission. Revenant just stands there and ignores them while he chop or shoots them dead. There are several other frames that completely abuse them aswell. That doesnt really fit into the whole thing they claimed would be challenging.

We knew there would be a grind, but we also thought there would be challenging content to come with that grind, not another pushover mob with a hardcoded insta kill mechanic based on RNG during an interaction.