Regarding Pablo's recent stream about saryn

[Xaero]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

and with how several other nerfs have gone I'm worried they'll end up being heavy handed

Could you be more specific please?

[tzadquiel]

what the f are you talking about, OP?

please tell me more about ALL THE NERFS DE did lately that make you so concerned.
please tell me about all the Pablo's promises of nerfing saryn, that make you so concerned. please tell me more about how you have agreed to play a game, agreed to its content, abused one boring build type to death, and how concerned you are with your delusional imaginations of a nerf that you have just made up, that would take that boring tactic away from you. I am all ears, man. 

another one smoking crack. too early for this on a tuesday....  

[RunningChaos]

3 hours ago, -Fatal- said:

Well nobody forced you to buy the vault pack?

De needs to fix the "powercreep" everybody talks 

The fact that no one forced him to by the vault pack is irrelevant. The fact that he paid for something and now they want to change it is the point. I understand powercreep is a problem, but it's none of your business if he spent money or not. You don't need to comment on that.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

3 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Hm...
You used sarcasm in your OP... A lot of sarcasm.
You called counter arguments lousy.
Your whole attitude towards a possible Saryn rework is kind of hostile.
But yeah, you are right. You are a lamb. ^^

I used a little sarcasm. A little. 

I called a specific  lousy *argument* lousy. 

My attitude towards saryn getting hit with a nerf bat is kind of hostile. 

The sarcasm wasnt meant to be offensive or inflammatory and if you have a problem with it I'm sorry. 

There is a difference, at least in every forum I've ever been on, between calling a specific argument lousy, which is generally acceptable, and ridiculing specific members of the forum, which usually isnt. 

And, yes, I oppose the idea of nerfing saryn. Especially if they're going to do something heavy handed with the nerf bat like they have a track record of doing. But nowhere did I make it out like they CANT NERF SARYN OR ILL SUE OR RIOT OR SOMETHING. I read then same fine print that you did and am well aware that they CAN. But having the right to doesnt mean that I'm not allowed to have an opinion on the matter. 

Meanwhile, you chose to come in here and start throwing around personal attacks and insults. While accusing me of being the child throwing a tantrum that needs to grow up. Do you see the irony here? 

 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

4 minutes ago, tzadquiel said:

what the f are you talking about, OP?

please tell me more about ALL THE NERFS DE did lately that make you so concerned.
please tell me about all the Pablo's promises of nerfing saryn, that make you so concerned. please tell me more about how you have agreed to play a game, agreed to its content, abused one boring build type to death, and how concerned you are with your delusional imaginations of a nerf that you have just made up, that would take that boring tactic away from you. I am all ears, man. 

another one smoking crack. too early for this on a tuesday....  

1) if you're going to be that disingenuous I'm not going to take you seriously. 

5 minutes ago, Xaero said:

Could you be more specific please?

Why, are you unfamiliar with DE's history with nerfs? Or are you just waiting for an example to nitpick? 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

Just now, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

*grabs popcorn

 

Orly? 

All jokes aside this has been going on for years. Reasons why I really only forma something once maybe twice and I really dont like to grind anymore 

I'm with you. I find myself enjoying this game a lot less lately because of this. 

[___Operator___]

Saryn's damage output isn't  my problem, its how mindless she is. No one can tell me shes balanced when she can use one skill to out damage the entire squad for the duration of the mission while doing nothing else at all. Pablo's wording is something for concern and I won't deny it, its all or nothing with DE, its horribly ovepowered or completely useless but  the people acting as though shes completely fine and not overperforming at all are blinded by the fact they got used to powercreep and now that its trying to be tamed for the enjoyment of the majority of the playerbase they are going into a meltdown.

My solution to Saryn is make her line of sight based and that the spore counter should drain energy, the higher it goes the more energy it consumes. This way she actively has to kill enemies and seek them out rather than just set and forget with one cast.

[Chicken-Biryani]

Welp, it at least gives a reason for people not to support DE... Because what you buy today, might very well not be what you get to keep tomorrow. So, if you are not into the nerf train, you better take your business elsewhere and save yourself a lot of regrets. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

46 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Given his comments it's reasonable to believe AT THE VERY LEAST hes considering it. 

just because somebody mentions something doesn't make it true. Pablo himself said he talks about random stuff on the stream. I wouldn't be surprised if someone pulled him to one side afterwards and said "yeah, we're not doing that; we have other stuff to do and don't want to annoy our players" they certainly have a lot more things to worry about than Saryn; New War, Planes of Duviri, Railjack, fixing the Lich System.. the list goes on.

I think you're jumping the gun here. if they start discussing this at length during a proper Devstream, or show off a WIP rework for Saryn, THEN you should be concerned.

Edited December 3, 2019 by (PS4)robotwars7

[KnossosTNC]

My only reaction to the whole thing:

*Whistles while walking over to my Saryn to drop in her second Umbra Forma*

*Hears about the incoming nerf*

*Hovers the Umbra Forma hesitantly over the mod slot*

*Reads Pablo's posts in this forum before they got deleted*

*Relaxes and slaps the Umbra Forma into the slot*

Edited December 3, 2019 by KnossosTNC

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I'm with you. I find myself enjoying this game a lot less lately because of this. 

Bought the lich pack I don't farm regular frames and weaps anymore (Not that I need the resources but clan weapons) etc I just don't care to invest as much 

"the game is in open beta after all"

So I'll go back to no lifing this when the final product comes out and I'm gonna go back to eso/Tera mainly

Edited December 3, 2019 by (PS4)sweatshawp

[Xaero]

10 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Or are you just waiting for an example to nitpick?

Mostly this. I might've missed some severe nerf though.

[tzadquiel]

1 hour ago, RunningChaos said:

The fact that he paid for something and now they want to change it is the point. I understand powercreep is a problem, but it's none of your business if he spent money or not. 

sorry, but nobody cares. DE is tasking itself with bringing balanced experience to all players, and this would be another effort to do so.
and ultimately me, as another player, have full expectations in DE managing that balance distribution in the way they see fit so that my experience, a s a non-saryn player, won't be hindered. if you don't like this balance distribution mechanic - I understand, but I feel it would be best for the game.
 

[Chicken-Biryani]

1 minute ago, KnossosTNC said:

My only reaction to whole thing:

*Whistles while walking over to my Saryn to drop in her second Umbra Forma*

*Hears about the incoming nerf*

*Hovers the Umbra Forma hesitantly over the mod slot*

*Read Pablo's posts in this forum before they got deleted*

*Relaxes and slaps the Umbra Forma into the slot*

Damn! I hope you and I don't end up regretting our dual umbra saryn later down the line. Really trying to be positive and hopeful about it.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 minute ago, Monochromeatic said:

Saryn's damage output isn't  my problem, its how mindless she is. No one can tell me shes balanced when she can use one skill to out damage the entire squad for the duration of the mission while doing nothing else at all. Pablo's wording is something for concern and I won't deny it, its all or nothing with DE, its horribly ovepowered or completely useless but  the people acting as though shes completely fine and not overperforming at all are blinded by the fact they got used to powercreep and now that its trying to be tamed for the enjoyment of the majority of the playerbase they are going into a meltdown.

My solution to Saryn is make her line of sight based and that the spore counter should drain energy, the higher it goes the more energy it consumes. This way she actively has to kill enemies and seek them out rather than just set and forget with one cast.

Honestly I think the fact the community is having a meltdown over this is indicative of a bigger problem than just saryn. You touched on something I think is more important:

 

It seems like it is all or nothing with DE at least when it comes to nerfs. It will either be incredibly strong or in the dumpster THAT is the problem. People wouldn't be freaking out as much if they weren't expecting her to either remain at her current power level or be dunked on. 

[___Operator___]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Honestly I think the fact the community is having a meltdown over this is indicative of a bigger problem than just saryn. You touched on something I think is more important:

 

It seems like it is all or nothing with DE at least when it comes to nerfs. It will either be incredibly strong or in the dumpster THAT is the problem. People wouldn't be freaking out as much if they weren't expecting her to either remain at her current power level or be dunked on. 

There is as much blame on DE as  there is the community in my eyes. Regardless of how DE approach this there will be a group on forums claiming shes completely useless and good for nothing, a good example of this is ember. The amount of people crying on here about a good rework is astonishing.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

just because somebody mentions something doesn't make it true. Pablo himself said he talks about random stuff on the stream. I wouldn't be surprised if someone pulled him to one side afterwards and said "yeah, we're not doing that; we have other stuff to do and don't want to annoy our players" they certainly have a lot more things to worry about than Saryn; New War, Planes of Duviri, Railjack, fixing the Lich System.. the list goes on.

I think you're jumping the gun here. if they start discussing this at length during a proper Devstream, or show off a WIP rework for Saryn, THEN you should be concerned.

He wouldn't have mentioned it at all if he wasn't at least considering it. That's the thing. 

And I'm already concerned because 

1) it seems like once they've "decided" to nerf something... its gonna happen.

2) it seems like when they nerf something they have a tendency to slam things into the ground. 

[KnossosTNC]

4 minutes ago, --C--Nehra said:

Damn! I hope you and I don't end up regretting our dual umbra saryn later down the line. Really trying to be positive and hopeful about it.

We can hope. I just thought it sounded like Pablo was just thinking out loud as a streamer, and any official plans for Saryn is some way away, if they're coming at all.

[Aldain]

I hope all the Sayrn fans are happy, because just from these topics alone I have gone from indifferent to her getting nerfed and being concerned that the game modes are more the issue making her OP to the other side of the fence.

I hope she gets nerfed now, just so all your premature hysteria can be worth it, I hope your utter meltdowns do nothing but convince DE that she needs to be nerfed so hard that people question that why they just didn't delete her.

Because with this utterly disgusting temper tantrum and level of personal assaults and outright IGNORANCE that is being displayed I am convinced that this theoretical nerf is completely deserved.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Aldain

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Well, I've said time and time again that while DE does have good intentions, and that they do behave better than some "Evil As*hat" companies, it's not like they are pure rays of sunshine either. They are just careful enough to be sly about their strategies. And boy oh boy, if I don't fully agree that they do let some issues drag on while they profit from it just for someday when there's a lot of backlash due to it they suddenly prioritize it and fix it and bam - "DE is best company!". Two birds with one stone.

I'm not saying this is bad, or that I care all that much. I'm just saying I find interesting and respect their PR management strategies. Because most issues are seemingly ok. At least until they start damaging the good reputation DE holds. PR is a way of profit on it's own. You might not be milking the costumers out of their greed, but on their good will. And that's way better than most companies out there.

---

Now, as for the whole Pablo situation, he might not be thinking about it "atm". Of course, that's obvious. That doesn't mean that Saryn isn't outshining other frames in ESO and that DE tends to bandaid the wrong things to fix the wrong problems. So while I'm sure there won't be a nerf over the next month (heck due to the backlash I doubt it'll even happen before next Tennocon), I do believe we'll see this happen within next year. When this uproar is long gone and as a sudden new thing that was "thought about recently".

I must say I also found it funny how DE capitalized on how the community reveres Pablo as a deterrent for the Catchmoon nerfs. To the point they even went through the work of preparing a video on it (childhood pictures and all) just to crowd control said community. Truly a remarkable example of one of the first things I mentioned.

Edited December 3, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

7 minutes ago, Xaero said:

Mostly this. I might've missed some severe nerf though.

I mean, just for example, maiming strike. Dont get me wrong. I never liked maiming strike and I get why they didnt like the spin2win meta but we are currently left with a crit chance mod that requires you slide that isnt worth using over a regular crit chance mod that simply works on every single attack. 

[Diangelius]

1 hour ago, Xaero said:

Would be nice to hear once why is it fine to keep such an insane range and no LoS which allows you to kill stuff you don't even see.

Miasma is the only skill of Saryn which can do that in low level missions. But in low level missions, Limbo rekt them much better. In mid level, we got Volt. I take other Warframes because their 4th skill have the same crazy range without LoS limit.

For the spores to be utilized, you need to see at least 1 enemy to cast (yeah the LoS sucks, huh). So there are lots of cases where you cannot even see another one to cast spores before the spores completely decay.

Saryn is not suitable for those seeking for AFK playstyle. Saryn is a true Number Chaser. You need to run fast, and find the numbers and pump up the numbers. If Saryn could be strong because we play actively and play hard, it's worth it, no ?

Note that I'm not restricting Saryn within ESO only.

[Fellas92]

Alright, so... the word is spreading that Saryn might be getting nerfed/reworked soon, while in the meantime Nyx,Chroma,Grendel,Titania,Zephyr are sitting in the corner eating glue. Now don't get me wrong, some of the abilities are decent, but in general, the main arsenal is pretty garbage.

I don't really understand the logic behind DE. They create something x10 times stronger than the rest of the items in game, then they get surprised people use it and nerf it. Same applies to weapons. I mean nerfing something broken is fine, but we also need other things to get buffed once in a while as well. For example, Hema requires a frick ton of mutagen samples to get, but what do we get in the end ? A mediocre gun at best.

I won't even start on some of the mods.... warm coat,rifle aptitude, etc... So how about DE instead of reworking the same warframe for several times, you actually look into other things, which haven't been looked at for several years ? 
 

[BrazilianJoe]

I think the Viral damage is too much of an all or nothing thing, it would do well with a change. 

Viral should do an AoE tick per second that slowly incrementally erode max health, like Corrosive does to armor. Viral damage would ignore armor and shields.

Spores would change to a click to select, hold to cast ability to throw Toxin/Corrosive/Gas/Viral spores that tick an AoE. Spores would still be explodable. Spores would still spread spores on explosion, plus any status among Toxin/Corrosive/Viral/Gas to enemies in range. Spore would explode after some time instead of unlimited duration. 

Toxic Lash would also be a click/hold skill to choose the elemental damage between Toxin

Molt is OK.

Miasma would be cheaper to cast, but LoS limited, and affect enemies with all Viral, Gas AND Corrosive all at once, then blow up all spores. Spores blown by Miasma would cause a chain reaction to blow up other spores in their range, even if they are outside the range of Miasma.

[8faiNt]

Banshee isnt even in the list they always forget my girl