DE why not make the Aksomati Prime pistols innately silent? Why are you releasing loud dual machine-gun pistols with Ivara Prime? The only stealth frame that de-cloaks when she fires loud guns

[BlindStalker]

I recently found out that The Aksomati Prime pistols will be loud firing pistols.

Importantly, these pair of machine gun pistols are still a loud alarming firing pair of machine gun pistols. DE what logical reasoning made you decide to release them with Ivara Prime? Ivara is the only stealth frame that breaks her invisibility whenever she fires loud weapons, there's no good reason to pair her with loud firing guns. That's why you ended up pairing Ivara Prime with the Baza Prime (because it's innately silent), at least that makes logical sense.

Aksomati:

• The Aksomatis were not released at the same time with Ivara (Aksomati came in during update 16.3, Ivara came in during update 18.0)
• The Aksomatis have no thematic connection to Ivara whatsoever. Remember the Aksomatis were based on the "Soma" machine gun rifle. The Aksomatis' design was purposely designed to be aesthetically similar to the Soma gun. Remember DE? - Image:
  • Plus, these machine pistols are part of the 'Supreme Soma Set' which further is meant to emphasis that they have a connection to the Soma machine gun family.
• How do the Aksomatis evoke a "huntress/hunter" type of theme with Ivara?
• Besides the Aksomati dual pistols, did we really need another set of dual akimbo pistols? We already have the Akstiletto Prime, Aklex Prime, Akvasto Prime, Akjagara Prime, the Akbronco Prime and the Akbolto Prime. That's 6 Akimbo prime pistols already, a diluted oversaturated prime weapon category. The Aksomati Primes bring nothing creatively new to the table in terms of akpistols, their closest competitor, the Akstiletto prime can already fill the niche of fast firing status/crit hybrid machine-gun pistols. We didn't need another gun like this. Plus the Akstiletto Prime is already currently unvaulted and in circulation due to Vauban's unvaulting. They're not a unique choice of gun to have been primed and they honestly could've waited.
• New players who have never played with Ivara before will be confused as to why their prowl invisibility is breaking because they will not be familiar with this no loud guns restriction on prowl at all. Okay maybe less strong of a point to put here compared to other things said.

DE you had another perfectly good secondary weapon that could've been primed with Ivara that actually fits Ivara's huntress/ranger theme, the Talons. I'm so disappointed that we didn't get Talons Prime with Ivara, but not having the Aksomati prime being innately silent is just rubbing salt in the disappointment. 

Talons:

• Was the original secondary weapon released with Ivara back in update 18.0. They are also bundled with Ivara in her 'huntress bundle'. Remember that bundle DE? It actually makes sense from a thematic standpoint.
• The Talons are innately silent
• The talons can synergize with Ivara's kit through Ivara's navigator ability. The talons are actually a pretty reasonable weapon candidate (in the extremely tiny pool of weapons) that can work well with Ivara's navigator. Granted, they have an 8 second flight time before they explode (but Ivara's navigator used to override this range/time limit and honestly, we would like to have this feature brought back to navigator).
• They also work well with Ivara's "ranger" theme. DE, you guys were thinking of some sort of "ranger" class when you were cooking up Ivara's overall warframe design. We can tell because someone on reddit found out while looking inside the Warframe android app, the file names for certain warframes. They posted this on reddit, Ivara's internal file name is 'ranger'. Now I'll be honest, I've never played really any traditional RPG/MMO/Online RPG/MMO so I'm not really familiar with the ranger archtype/character class at all from those types of games. But supposedly one of the possible characteristics of a Ranger class is 'detecting and/or laying down traps'. The talons are basically remote detonated explosives, so of course they be used as booby trap chokepoints. Again, would've fit that traditional ranger theme a little bit better. 
• You could've made the talons prime look like some sort of flowers or jellyfish like things, honestly I could imagine these secondary thrown explosive projectile weapons working better with Ivara Prime's aesthetics, at least better than the Aksomatis.
• Talons Prime are at least a unique choice of secondary weapons to have primed in a sea over-saturated akimbo prime pistols. We have never had a thrown explosive secondary weapon be primed yet. Why not go for uniqueness for a secondary over repetitive akimbo choice? 

@[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Steve I still feel like 'Talons Prime' was a missed opportunity, but if you're going to release aksomati Prime pistols with Ivara, then why not make them innately silent? I mean, that was major reason you went with the Baza Prime for her primary prime weapon to pair with, because it's innately silent.

[taiiat]

i would say probably because AkSomati just thematically has nothing to do with Ivara, is why the Weapons don't seem to match the Warframe. it's just because.... they don't.

and ideally they would've paired a Sniper Rifle with this Prime Access but they'd have to make Lanka Prime for that to work since the only other choice is Komorex, as for what Sniper Rifles would pair well with Ivaras' Abilities. could've gone for a Bow but we don't have any appropriate Bows to pair with as i'm not sure Daikyu really fits Ivara.

[Lone_Dude]

Because they don't care and because they want you to use exilus silencer-mod on them.

[HomicidalGrouse]

32 minutes ago, BlindStalker said:

New players who have never played with Ivara before will be confused as to why their prowl invisibility is breaking because they will not be familiar with this no loud guns restriction on prowl at all.

This one particular thing is such a non-issue.

If a new player is able to get Ivara Prime, they either purchased her or aren't so new. Even then, the decision on whether or not to release something alongside something else shouldn't be determined by whether or not "new" players will understand the effect one might have on the other. This entire game is full of random mechanics that require a wiki to understand, but you think "new players are kinda dumb and don't know how prowl works" is somehow a valid argument for not releasing a certain weapon? Just... what?

At any rate, I'd agree that making Aksomati a silent weapon would be neat. I don't know what the particular gimmick of this weapon is, if any, so making it silent would make it the only silent rapid-fire dual-pistol prime.

[BlindStalker]

52 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i would say probably because AkSomati just thematically has nothing to do with Ivara, is why the Weapons don't seem to match the Warframe. it's just because.... they don't.

and ideally they would've paired a Sniper Rifle with this Prime Access but they'd have to make Lanka Prime for that to work since the only other choice is Komorex, as for what Sniper Rifles would pair well with Ivaras' Abilities. could've gone for a Bow but we don't have any appropriate Bows to pair with as i'm not sure Daikyu really fits Ivara.

Is it wrong for me to have had hopes that Ivara prime would've released with weapons that at least connected to Ivara in some way?

Like the Baza prime, I would say there's not really a great thematic connection to Ivara, but there's at least some possible reasoning to release it with Ivara Prime.

• Innately silent
• Baza was often recommended from an in-community perspective to pair with Ivara. This combo was often recommended from players within the community to the point where it became viewed as ideal pairing. People kind of dubbed it like a 'spec-ops Ivara pairing'. Even though, realistically you can put hush/suppress/silent battery on any gun (it just seems people are allergic to putting those mods on their guns just for Ivara's sake). But main point, Baza + Ivara was perhaps a popular pairing from an in-community usage, at least I'm guessing.

But I do like the idea of if a sniper rifle prime could've been released with her, if that was an option. Would've worked with the hunter/huntress theme better at least. I mean, ever since I got my Rubico Prime that got stolen by Chroma's PA this has been my favourite sniper rifle to pair with Ivara. I mean there was a very slim chance that they could've introduced an entirely new prime weapon like they did with Banshee Prime and Euphona Prime, but that was probably really slim.

Daikyu Prime was the other fan favourite that people predicted as a potential prime weapon release with Ivara Prime. I would've been fine with Daikyu prime, because at least I could use them with navigator.

51 minutes ago, Lone_Dude said:

Because they don't care and because they want you to use exilus silencer-mod on them.

This is the cynical answer. Sad part is I agree with you. I guess it's my own fault for having some hopes the secondary weapon, would've been a better pairing.

34 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:

At any rate, I'd agree that making Aksomati a silent weapon would be neat. I don't know what the particular gimmick of this weapon is, if any, so making it silent would make it the only silent rapid-fire dual-pistol prime.

See, being innately silent would at least be a nice gimmick to help differentiate the Aksomati Primes a little better. But as far as I can tell, there's no gimmick that's coming with the Aksomati Primes, they're just another set of akimbo prime pistols, nothing really creatively unique about them.

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by BlindStalker

[NekroArts]

I don't ever recall them making prime weapons thematically fit the frame it'll be releasing with, most likely has to do with DE deciding that when choosing a weapon to be prime, it'll be just about the weapon. 

[Tiltskillet]

I suspect they figured Aksomati Prime would be a bigger seller / more tempting grind  than Talons or Daikyu Prime.

Yeah, inherent or alt-fire silence  on the Aksomati would be cool anyway.   Not that it (Or the Baza, for that matter) would be an outstanding fit, functionally or thematically, for Ivara even then.

 

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, HomicidalGrouse said:

If a new player is able to get Ivara Prime, they either purchased her or aren't so new.

how do you even come to this conclusion. collecting some Keys for a while and rolling dice, or just being present in Void Tear Missions and getting lucky that other Players used the Keys for them........ is not difficult whatsoever for a newer Player to do. the 'barrier to entry' for playing Void Tears is nearly nothing.
newer Players are even recommended to skip most normal Weapons once they have any foothold and go get the __ Prime first since it's an upgrade - nobody else seems to think the way you do that it is impossible for a newer Player to get __ Prime. which seeing as there is essentially no barrier to entry...... makes sense.

57 minutes ago, BlindStalker said:

But I do like the idea of if a sniper rifle prime could've been released with her, if that was an option. Would've worked with the hunter/huntress theme better at least. I mean, ever since I got my Rubico Prime that got stolen by Chroma's PA this has been my favourite sniper rifle to pair with Ivara. I mean there was a very slim chance that they could've introduced an entirely new prime weapon like they did with Banshee Prime and Euphona Prime, but that was probably really slim.

that does seem like the only option they would've had, mmh. to create a new Primary Weapon that is Projectile, atleast somewhat Spikey in nature, Silent, Et Cetera.
and with no probability of picking Daikyu, partially because of being a so-so fit for Ivara, and also that it is a Weapon that would drive less sales than other choices - and Prime Access and everything related to it is strictly Business driven in its existence in the first place anyways.

[DatDarkOne]

@BlindStalker at this point, the discussion is really moot.  Since, it's a moot point, you really shouldn't worry yourself over this.  Doing otherwise could possibly be a cause for undue stress.  

[Althaline]

Looking at their introduction on the devstream, it seems like DE were trying to go for "Jellyfish" more than "Ivara" with Aksomati Prime. I wholeheartedly agree with you on all of your points, but it's too late to do anything about it, and it already was long before we got a sneak peek.

[Test-995]

It doesn't makes sense and pretty much stupid since making a gun silent doesn't break the balance in any degree, but whatever we have pexilus slot and perhaps de on money shortage rn.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Test-995

[AzureTerra]

That some prime weapons come with a Frame means very little. They don't have to match it in any theme. While i'd have preferred AkMagnus Prime i am happy my Fav Auto Akpistols are getting primed.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Because Baza Prime will be silent.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

A missed opportunity for Ivara Prime would have been a Primed dagger. Obviously the big elephant in the room with Ivara Prime’s Access is a primed bow (Daikyu Prime), but that’s debatable considering Baza Prime’s innate silence and Artemis Bow Prime. However if we’re speaking in terms of a ranger theme a Primed dagger or dual daggers would be on the table here. And I’m pretty sure a majority of the community has been waiting on primed dagger for years at this point.

Fang Prime did get a massive buff to Melee Rework Phase 2, but when it comes to a Primed dagger we’ve been sitting on this expectancy for much too long.

[HomicidalGrouse]

10 hours ago, taiiat said:

how do you even come to this conclusion. collecting some Keys for a while and rolling dice, or just being present in Void Tear Missions and getting lucky that other Players used the Keys for them........ is not difficult whatsoever for a newer Player to do. the 'barrier to entry' for playing Void Tears is nearly nothing.
newer Players are even recommended to skip most normal Weapons once they have any foothold and go get the __ Prime first since it's an upgrade - nobody else seems to think the way you do that it is impossible for a newer Player to get __ Prime. which seeing as there is essentially no barrier to entry...... makes sense.

I never said it's impossible for a new player to get any given Prime, but they'd either have to be taxi'd to the nodes to be able to play all of the fissures required to get the parts, AND be able to acquire the relics in the first place, the Neo and Axi ones usually being obtained from higher-level bounties or nodes, as well as relatively high rotations in those nodes.

And if they can make it that far, then surely they're capable of understanding that "oh, firing loud weapons is breaking stealth".

Why are you even trying to defend this idea that a weapon shouldn't be released with this frame because some mysterious "new player" somewhere might just have the weapon and the frame and use them at the same time and somehow be confused as to why firing the weapon reveals their position? Why would you defend such a nonsensical point?

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, HomicidalGrouse said:

Why are you even trying to defend this idea that a weapon shouldn't be released with this frame because some mysterious "new player" somewhere might just have the weapon and the frame and use them at the same time and somehow be confused as to why firing the weapon reveals their position? Why would you defend such a nonsensical point?

Honestly, I see quite a few complaints coming to the forums from newish players getting Ivara Prime and not realizing this very thing.  I just know it's coming.  😄  

[BlindStalker]

10 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

@BlindStalker at this point, the discussion is really moot.  Since, it's a moot point, you really shouldn't worry yourself over this.  Doing otherwise could possibly be a cause for undue stress.  

It would be a nice small gimmick to make the Aksomati Primes innately silent. At least it would make Aksomati Primes stand out a bit more than being another copy paste weapon of the Akstiellto primes that they're trying to compete with.

I was originally disappointed when I saw devstream 133, I was still holding out a bit of hope that Aksomati Primes were going to release as silent guns, but that was naive of me it seems. You're probably right that it's moot by this point. I'm not worrying too much about it anymore as I said my piece and I'm content with that.

[taiiat]

4 hours ago, HomicidalGrouse said:

they'd either have to be taxi'd to the nodes to be able to play all of the fissures required to get the parts, AND be able to acquire the relics in the first place, the Neo and Axi ones usually being obtained from higher-level bounties or nodes, as well as relatively high rotations in those nodes.

And if they can make it that far, then surely they're capable of understanding that "oh, firing loud weapons is breaking stealth".
 

Why are you even trying to defend this idea that a weapon shouldn't be released with this frame because some mysterious "new player" somewhere might just have the weapon and the frame and use them at the same time and somehow be confused as to why firing the weapon reveals their position?

that's not that uncommon in this game (newbie Matchmakes into a Mission, other people carry it for a couple Rotations), and having a decent amount of the Solar Map unlocked doesn't... take that long?

possibly, but my point was to the ease of acquisition of Prime anything, moreso than that.

 

i'm not defending anything like that. just saying that it's pretty easy to acquire Prime anything in this game, hence why Players all up and down the Mastery list have Prime things.
you really only need be present in Void Tears to get Prime things.
and that newbie will end up with stuff they can Trade, which they may or may not take advantage of.

[HomicidalGrouse]

4 hours ago, taiiat said:

that's not that uncommon in this game (newbie Matchmakes into a Mission, other people carry it for a couple Rotations), and having a decent amount of the Solar Map unlocked doesn't... take that long?

possibly, but my point was to the ease of acquisition of Prime anything, moreso than that.

 

i'm not defending anything like that. just saying that it's pretty easy to acquire Prime anything in this game, hence why Players all up and down the Mastery list have Prime things.
you really only need be present in Void Tears to get Prime things.
and that newbie will end up with stuff they can Trade, which they may or may not take advantage of.

The star chart actually takes quite some time to unlock. We're talking weeks of playtime there... especially when you consider the time it takes for a new player to obtain and learn how to properly utilize mods to be able to do it. Let alone gather the resources to upgrade those mods...

That's not even going into the issue of mastery locked weapons anyway...

The point is that it's not like some noob that hasn't ventured beyond Mars is going to suddenly be getting new primes... and if they do have them, they probably bought them.

[DroopingPuppy]

Well, sometimes the snipers needs to be go loud in a pinch. It is a plan b but it is still a plan.

 

And I don't think that silent and dual machine pistols seems connected by default either.

[taiiat]

9 hours ago, HomicidalGrouse said:

The star chart actually takes quite some time to unlock. We're talking weeks of playtime there... especially when you consider the time it takes for a new player to obtain and learn how to properly utilize mods to be able to do it. Let alone gather the resources to upgrade those mods...

or they play the Solar Map on Public, and people Matchmake in and do the Missions for them. and then people do the Void Tears for them.

that's..... not uncommon.

[Peter]

Because... they just want your money?

[Vermagus]

On 2019-12-15 at 1:46 AM, Lone_Dude said:

Because they don't care and because they want you to use exilus silencer-mod on them.

OH!...OH thank you fo that. 

[DroopingPuppy]

An another counterpoint: Ivara Prime comes with Baza Prime, which is a silent gun. She already have enough tools for clock and dagger, but why you expect that, OP?

Edited December 18, 2019 by DroopingPuppy

[Redpaws]

I honestly think I'd rather have seen Karyst Prime, both because it'd fit with the stealthy gameplay, and since we currently don't have any primed single dagger. Aksomati is pretty cool, just... Odd choice for Ivara. At least Baza Prime is very fitting! Love that gun.