To Dupe or Not to Dupe....

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

It seems like the Lich creation process is hard to figure out....  DE keeps flip flopping on whether or not we should be able to get repeat weapons or not.  After seeing the new patch notes where they are once again allowing repeat weapons I am concerned..  I understand the desire to get repeat weapons with the new fusion system.....  however people are only seeing the best case scenario....Im thinking about how many damn missions I will have to run because I repeatedly get crap weapons I dont want.....   with "No Repeats" I hardly got what I wanted either but atleast I knew every roll was going to be something different and I might get a weapon I wanted.  Now that is not the case.....(well atleast when console gets this 27.1.2) 

Which method do you guys prefer???  Repeat or no Repeat???   How many thralls do you think is the ideal number to grind through before getting to something you want??

What if there was a third option......

What if.... you go into a mission...a thrall pops up.....you murder it with extreme prejudice..........it shows no weapon above its head.... you just mercy kill it..... Then when you get back to your ship where your Lich would be generated and its name would pop up and he would pop up in the corner and start talking trash....instead you a get a pop up menu of all the kuva weapons.   You choose the weapon you want your lich to be generated with and THEN you get the name reveal and trash talk.    One thrall...one Weapon... 

[TARINunit9]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_ said:

It seems like the Lich creation process is hard to figure out....  DE keeps flip flopping on whether or not we should be able to get repeat weapons or not.  After seeing the new patch notes where they are once again allowing repeat weapons I am concerned..  I understand the desire to get repeat weapons with the new fusion system.....  however people are only seeing the best case scenario....Im thinking about how many damn missions I will have to run because I repeatedly get crap weapons I dont want.....   with "No Repeats" I hardly got what I wanted either but atleast I knew every roll was going to be something different and I might get a weapon I wanted.  Now that is not the case.....(well atleast when console gets this 27.1.2) 

Which method do you guys prefer???  Repeat or no Repeat???   How many thralls do you think is the ideal number to grind through before getting to something you want??

The problem is that the "no repeats" was effective in the past, and it could theoretically be useful in the current system IF the "no repeats" check was used at the correct step. Let me try to explain...

• If two consecutive Larvlings can't get repeats, that's a fine system. If you reject a Larvling, you don't want to see the exact same Larvling next mission
• If two consecutive Liches can't get repeats in a world without "Larvling Previews" and Valance Fusion, that's also fine, because dupes are almost useless
• But if two consecutive Liches can't get repeats in a world with "Larvling Previews" and Valance Fusion, there's a conflict of interests. Now you have a world where dupes are useful to a certain set of farmers, but it takes longer for those farmers to get dupes

39 minutes ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_ said:

What if there was a third option......

What if.... you go into a mission...a thrall pops up.....you murder it with extreme prejudice..........it shows no weapon above its head.... you just mercy kill it..... Then when you get back to your ship where your Lich would be generated and its name would pop up and he would pop up in the corner and start talking trash....instead you a get a pop up menu of all the kuva weapons.   You choose the weapon you want your lich to be generated with and THEN you get the name reveal and trash talk.    One thrall...one Weapon... 

The devs are doing this. There's going to be a special token that you craft using unwanted Kuva Weapons, and you can set the token to "spawn a Larvling with a specific weapon"

[taiiat]

the anti-dupe thing literally nerfed you, both before and after the recent changes. it never actually helped with anyone except the single sole case of someone that wanted to farm Mastery and never touch Liches again. because it prevented you from getting a Lich with the same Weapon, but as aforementioned, that was not the step in the process that repetition was a problem.

it wasn't a useful 'feature'. not having it at all is better than what it was before now, even if there would be a use for it when applied to Larvalings, better is better so i'll take it.

Edited February 19, 2020 by taiiat

[Miser_able]

57 minutes ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_ said:

but atleast I knew every roll was going to be something different and I might get a weapon I wanted.

that's not how the no dupes system worked. it was that you wouldn't get a larvaling with the same weapon as your previously defeated lich. you could still get back to back larvalings with the same weapon.

[0_The_F00l]

I would prefer that I got repeats if I needed it, 

But if I reject a lich (don't kill it) I don't want that weapon and so should not come up again immediately, 

Logic :

If lich has weapon I want then kill, 

   Reset probability stats(), 

Else If lich has weapon I don't want then reject lich, 

   Current weapon respawn chance decreased () . 

 

 

Do ignore the syntax and focus on the logic. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by 0_The_F00l

[Fallen77]

No, just no. Stop watering down everything.

At some point it's gonna be possible to clear 100% of any update in a week of casual play...

The only driving force, for me, right now is that there will still be weapons to grind at for a long time, I always have a little something yet to be completed. That or maxing primed mods for the last 5% of something, or stockpiling ressources and credits in the hope that it'll serve a point next update, rivetting.

With how much time it takes to get a single of those weapons, the game is clearly telling you he doesn't want you to get them all like pokemons in a day.

[(PSN)de_sch0sch]

I don't know hat I'm missing, but as it is not it's actually a good thing to be able to get the same weapon you just got, again. I was hunting for a second Nukor after I got my first one to change elements. Then I figured that I had to get another weapon (lich) first, to be able to get a Nukor again. Meanwhile I was flodded with back to back Krakens or Tonkors I wasn't looking for.

With the ability to know which weapon you get, the exclusion of back to back weapons can cause some serious PITA.

[ShortCat]

4 hours ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_ said:

.Im thinking about how many damn missions I will have to run because I repeatedly get crap weapons I dont want.....   with "No Repeats" I hardly got what I wanted either but atleast I knew every roll was going to be something different and I might get a weapon I wanted.  Now that is not the case.....(well atleast when console gets this 27.1.2) 

Which method do you guys prefer???  Repeat or no Repeat???

Atm there are 16 Kuva weapons. Previous system, which did not allow dupes only marginally increased your chances at getting a different weapon by shrinking weapon pool from 16 to 15 and increasing drop chances from 6.25% to 6.66%. This is hardly an improvement. The big drawback of the "no dupe" system was, that it was impossible to get 1 weapon you actually want back to back. You either had to do a random Lich inbetween or hit the Trade Chat.

To sum it up. If you only farm Kuva weapons for mastery, you will hardly notice a difference. If you want to maximise one specific Kuva weapon, new system is a huge improvement.

EDIT: Dupe or not dupe, Kuva weapon creation needs a revisit, because it is not sustainable for future weapon additions.

Edited February 19, 2020 by ShortCat

[Butterfly85]

It makes minimal difference now. All it means is those who have just got a specific weapon and are looking for upgrades can just cycle larvalings until they get another instead of having to go through the whole lich battle because of no dupes being a thing.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I'm done with Liches personally, but from what I've seen on here, it might be best to bring back getting duplicates, since players can now actively choose which Larvlings they want to make Liches. having to do another entire lich before even getting a chance at a duplicate you can fuse for that increased bonus damage is just unnecessary padding at best, and tedious and grindy at worst, I say let the dice roll determine once again. 

[IIDMOII]

Imho they're putting way too much work into the wrong aspects of this content.

They're so preoccupied with the mediocre kuva weapon rewards that the actual content loop and lich itself is all but forgotten. We wanted a cool nemesis. We got a disposable farm bot. 

Fixing reward acquisition is nice and all but the core of the lich system is still totally unrealized and is mostly just time padding.

Never once cared about or put a second thought into the randomly generated NPC. All that matters is grinding away the murmurs. The murmurs and weapons are more of a motivator than the actual lich.

 

[Ham_Grenabe]

I prefer the ability to do duplicates now, under this current system.

However, if I had my way, it would have been a knockout list from the start - each weapon cycles through in a set order (that order being random each player) and you can't get a repeat until you've acquired each one at least once (at which point the weapon list reshuffles to a new random order, and you begin again).

Yes, it would take a big longer to upgrade anything, but it also means 16 Liches, 16 weapons up front, and no duplicates.

If there was a way to do the knockout first, then start choosing what to upgrade after that? Even better. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[SneakyErvin]

The anti-dupe thing has always been a bad feature. It only benefited MR grinders and no one else. Under the larva preview system it was even worse, because you were forced to do atleast one lich in between that you had absolutely no use for.

The only anti-dupe feature that would be worthwhile would be one where we cant get a dupe on two liches back to back. So no 2x Karak in a row, but you could see Karak, Brakk, Karak. That would just have a positive outcome.

[SenorClipClop]

23 hours ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_ said:

you a get a pop up menu of all the kuva weapons.   You choose the weapon you want

Then people run exactly 16 Liches and then complain there's nothing to do.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

5 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

Then people run exactly 16 Liches and then complain there's nothing to do.

?  Unless you want to improve any with fusion.  Then you do it alot more.

They said console didnt get 27.1.2 yet but it sure felt like it last night.... I went after a new lich.  Probably spent 2 hours before I got something..  Not something I wanted... just one of the new guns the Hind.  I kinda liked the original enough to keep it in my inventory.   But 2 hours of ogris/tonker/seer/braak/kraken was infuriating. I was doing thralls 1/ per 4 mins or less. 

I even changed spots lol.  

That method is NOT going to work for me...