So are we going to let DE forget about wukong like that?

[Yamazuki]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Next thing you know they'll "fix" celestial twin dealing so much damage with bramma by erasing the clone from existence

They actually buffed Celestial Twin with bows, it now shoots more often and is a little more accurate. It still doesn't seem to benefit from fire rate mods though. I still think Bramma is worthless on him though, especially at a level where the fall off prevents the twin from killing enemies, at that point he may as well use a weapon that easily applies a bunch of statuses to buff your melee; even at lower levels, other aoe/high fire rate (i.e Acceltra) weapons that are easy for to twin to use are better than Bramma due to the pretty long delay between shooting arrows with bows.

3 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Yeah i agree, excalibur has energy waves, valkyr is invincible and has lifesteal

Wukong has...the largest range of all melees? And the widest block angle?

This is just...is just greed man

I mean, i may be relatively new here, but shouldn't we all complain about it or something?

Maybe our voice will be heard, idk

Balancing for PA isn't new, Titania received changes that should have happened ages ago for her PA. It's not as if this sort of thing is unique to DE either, Riot for example randomly buffs a champion and coincidentally a patch cycle later there's a skin for them.

 

[Eluminary]

 Wukong got a big Nerf when we first got him from China his staff was originally moddable to like 20 m now it's down to a three base and it's not even the longest range melee War's a 3.2 and there are lots of 3.0,   there are also lots of melee weapons without rivens that way out DPS this thing at the moment.   one or both need a buff to justify it being an exalted the way it is at the moment it's not worth using unless you just  don't have one of the many melee weapons that will out dmg it.

 

The cloudwalker nerf wasn't that bad it's still a very good skill even once they eventually get around to nerfing the Crouch button,  it will still be one of the best movement skills in the game.     his staff should be reverted to the way it was before melee 3.0 his staff should not have been changed if it was supposed to be the example for what 3.0 was supposed to be.  it probably won't happen anytime soon, they have other things are more concerned with he still a good frame just with a useless 4 lots of Warframes have at least one ability that's worthless.  he still better than he was before his rework Imo...

 

 I'm  hoping they fix Titanias melee problems... her prime access is still up so at least there's a chance probably not a very good one on that either though.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Eluminary

[DeMonkey]

6 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

This is the bias I meant, and am looking forward to your counterpoints to help clarify, if not outright disprove, my assumptions

I'm not sure what else I can provide.

DE spend a lot of time telling us what they're up to, quite often they tell us so many things that they're up to that they can't keep up with them all and they never see the light of day.

Wukong was never something DE were working on post release, despite an overwhelming amount of issues. They were very quick to nerf him whenever he stuck out, but never to buff him. This is simply a matter of record, viewable in the many Devstreams and patch notes.

Wukong was reworked entirely to be a far more enjoyable frame prior to his Prime Access release. There is only one reason for this given the complete neglect prior to his PA release. It's not corrupt, it's not evil, it's a business decision. Reworking him at this time was financially beneficial to DE, and I can't fault them for taking advantage of it. I don't have to like it, but I understand it. There's no bias or subjectivity here, this is what happened.

Since then however there have been numerous threads (in fact, almost more than prior to his rework given there were a lot more people playing him now) about the issues he faces, be it the limitations on Defy, the AI of the clone and primarily the sad state of his staff after melee 3.0. Due to, once again, the complete lack of mentions in devstreams, patch notes or otherwise we can only assume that they have no intentions of changing anything. Again they were very quick to nerf him when he stuck out, but not to buff any of his actual issues. This is business as usual for Wukong as far as DE is concerned.

No, I don't like that the character I enjoy playing will not get any love unless it's financially beneficial to DE, but that doesn't change what happened or how I've perceived what's happened. I'm simply sharing facts. Wukong was made a better frame at a time when it was financially beneficial to do so, and since it is no longer financially beneficial he... isn't being made a better frame. Unless by suggesting that I'm biased you mean to infer that this situation is entirely coincidental, I'm not sure what more needs clarification.

Edited April 25, 2020 by DeMonkey

[SneakyErvin]

7 hours ago, kengxiaoju said:

who plays trash now?

He's the best disruption frame and he's good at most everything else aslong as you dont just seek AoE. He's lacking in excavation and ESO, but that goes for most frames.

[cookieknife]

The prime access is over, no profit lol.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

It's not like he's not keeping up now or anything I can still run into most whatever mission in the higher end or low end and wreck house with my likely optimal build. A lot of these nerfs people cry about in practical situations really don't matter since you can still do just fine with the frame. 

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

20 hours ago, (PS4)Viveeeh said:

Most men think having a large melee is very important. My opinion is, range isn't the most important thing, but how they use that melee. I'm sad Wukong can't fight how he used to 🙁

Omg I love you for that. Lmao.

20 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Listen to him, the guy didn't call himself DeMonkey for nothing 😉

Seconded. This dude is practically real life Warframe's Wukong. And he speaks for more than himself.

18 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

Wukong is still one of the best frames.

Also I don't get the hatred for his staff. It still hits like a truck the last time I checked and since he can use Rage it doesn't even cost energy really. And the speed nerf I didn't even notice on cloud walker.

There's no reason to drain energy when almost every other melee in the game already outperforms it, for free. And nobody should have to sacrifice a mod slot to make something work less improperly. Rage/Hunter Adrenaline, btw, are nowhere near the equivalent of "doesn't cost any energy," especially with how tanky Wukong is.

I also don't mind the speed nerf, but it's the "why" factor that did it. You only get in when crouching, so it's optional if you want to use it or not. Why did they nerf it? Just for the sake of DE's sick nerf fetish? That's the issue here.

12 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

I'm not sure what else I can provide.

DE spend a lot of time telling us what they're up to, quite often they tell us so many things that they're up to that they can't keep up with them all and they never see the light of day.

Wukong was never something DE were working on post release, despite an overwhelming amount of issues. They were very quick to nerf him whenever he stuck out, but never to buff him. This is simply a matter of record, viewable in the many Devstreams and patch notes.

Wukong was reworked entirely to be a far more enjoyable frame prior to his Prime Access release. There is only one reason for this given the complete neglect prior to his PA release. It's not corrupt, it's not evil, it's a business decision. Reworking him at this time was financially beneficial to DE, and I can't fault them for taking advantage of it. I don't have to like it, but I understand it. There's no bias or subjectivity here, this is what happened.

Since then however there have been numerous threads (in fact, almost more than prior to his rework given there were a lot more people playing him now) about the issues he faces, be it the limitations on Defy, the AI of the clone and primarily the sad state of his staff after melee 3.0. Due to, once again, the complete lack of mentions in devstreams, patch notes or otherwise we can only assume that they have no intentions of changing anything. Again they were very quick to nerf him when he stuck out, but not to buff any of his actual issues. This is business as usual for Wukong as far as DE is concerned.

No, I don't like that the character I enjoy playing will not get any love unless it's financially beneficial to DE, but that doesn't change what happened or how I've perceived what's happened. I'm simply sharing facts. Wukong was made a better frame at a time when it was financially beneficial to do so, and since it is no longer financially beneficial he... isn't being made a better frame. Unless by suggesting that I'm biased you mean to infer that this situation is entirely coincidental, I'm not sure what more needs clarification.

I'm curious, do you think the AI of his clone was nerfed? I've been feeling it's been fairly inaction-y and inaccurate for a while now. It seems pretty badly nerfed to me. What are your observations?

11 hours ago, cookieknife said:

The prime access is over, no profit lol.

Imagine Nezha getting more buffs for his PA. He's already amazing post-rework, but he isn't popular at all. Oh, what a wonderful time to be a Nezha main, this summer will be.

However, I'd rather them fix frames which needs fixing. Like the topic of this thread, and many more frames who're in a much worse state.

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

I'm curious, do you think the AI of his clone was nerfed? I've been feeling it's been fairly inaction-y and inaccurate for a while now. It seems pretty badly nerfed to me. What are your observations?

Nerfed? Not so much. I don't personally think it's ever been good tbh. 

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

8 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

If that tiny bit of speed was enough to get you upset then you cant be helped.

It's hopper we're dealing with after all lol

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

13 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Nor having a unique effect justifying it's cost, leaving him with a wasted ability slot and an unjustifiably expensive handicap.

To get more sales for his PA.

His PA is over.

Sad, but true. 

Fax. 

[Kaotyke]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Fax. 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

8 hours ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

Seconded. This dude is practically real life Warframe's Wukong. And he speaks for more than himself.

@DeMonkey  don't get cocky now 😉

In all seriousness, i really think DE doesn't like wukong or care about the warframe

7 hours ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

It's hopper we're dealing with after all lol

Well hey you ain't wrong...but you say "dealing with" as if i'm not a blessing to you all 🧐

[(XBOX)Rez090]

15 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

No one has followed Wukong's development through this game more closely than me. No one.

I highly doubt this unless you've been sneakily sitting behind every DE dev, watching them when they open up the wukong files.

[TheLexiConArtist]

Not every frame gets buffed before their Prime release.. or their Deluxe release. Even when by all relative justifications they have the most utterly-pointless detriments and anti-synergies in their kit, both base and with augments, out of the entire game.

Oh, and be thankful you got decently appropriate skins with those releases too.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go be a jellyfish in the trees for some asinine reason, making do the best I can with a kit that tries its utmost to hamstring its own potential.

[DeMonkey]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Rez090 said:

I highly doubt this unless you've been sneakily sitting behind every DE dev, watching them when they open up the wukong files.

Hahaha, funny joke. Taking the phrase entirely literally instead of using your brain. So original. 

2/10.

A community member actively following the development of a particular thing doesn't mean they have to look over the devs shoulders at all their files.

Edited April 26, 2020 by DeMonkey

[Swagernator22663]

Wukong deluxe is like a burger advertisements .. it looks great on paper, but once you see it with your own eyes, oof. Like i dont want to talk bad about whoever did that design, but we all know who is no.1 deluxe maker in warframe, and if you can live up to those standards ... why even bother.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

3 minutes ago, Swagernator22663 said:

Wukong deluxe is like a burger advertisements .. it looks great on paper, but once you see it with your own eyes, oof. Like i dont want to talk bad about whoever did that design, but we all know who is no.1 deluxe maker in warframe, and if you can live up to those standards ... why even bother.

The feet is all that's bothering me

[kengxiaoju]

15 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

He's the best disruption frame and he's good at most everything else aslong as you dont just seek AoE. He's lacking in excavation and ESO, but that goes for most frames.

ofc i know his insane finisher atk but in general missions he is trash.

 However, he is not tanky enough for toxic ancient and he cant fight corpus unless its not high lvl. in another word, if play solo , hes just good at grineer disruption （maybe arbi）. the purpose of solo is just to see how long he can last. 

[SneakyErvin]

5 hours ago, kengxiaoju said:

ofc i know his insane finisher atk but in general missions he is trash.

 However, he is not tanky enough for toxic ancient and he cant fight corpus unless its not high lvl. in another word, if play solo , hes just good at grineer disruption （maybe arbi）. the purpose of solo is just to see how long he can last. 

I bring him to all types of disruption and he shreds them all. He gets tanky enough with arcane ultimatum and a nikana+daikyu, never had any issues with toxic ancients and I'm still not sure why people find them threatening at all. Corpus I have no issues with, just a bit more regular melee chopping since some units cant have finishers used on them. But Fatal Teleport still does its job and interupts the demos movement and you can still strip armor on Bursa demo units etc. with seeking shuriken.

[Uhkretor]

On 2020-04-25 at 8:42 AM, (PS4)Viveeeh said:

Most men think having a large melee is very important.

... I know what you did there lol

Edited April 26, 2020 by Uhkretor

[King-Baconbeard]

His 4 is absolutely useless, its stationary Combo doesn't even hit properly

 

No damage scale with multiplier and a horridly low base Crit chance!

[AshaMarie]

Yea, the only bad thing about Wukong for me is his 4.  He's my most used frame for spy and index missions based on the other abilities he has.

[Berzerkules]

WhoKong?