Is DE going to be supporting more causes?

[Zahnrad]

I had intended to post this in the thread made by Rebecca but it became locked due to people derailing it with pictures of food (not gonna lie. One of the more unique derailments I've seen.)

With the recent thread announcement by DE regarding the goings on in America I'm curious if DE will be getting behind more causes. I'm genuinely not making this thread in bad faith or to be hostile. I've had more time to think about it and it feels like there is less tension. I made two posts in that earlier thread, I don't think I said anything too far out of bounds but I do regret those posts. It's kinda why I'm making this thread to be honest.

I'm going to fess up and state why that thread urked me, it wasn't about me disagreeing with the message. In fact I also agree with it. The injustice, not the riots. A whole bunch of game companies were all posting about it, and seeing DE do the same it felt "trendy", as if it wasn't about the message. It was about making said message. DE has as far as I'm aware, always tried to keep anything political or controversial outside of Warframe and its interaction with the playerbase.

The point I want to make about this thread is, I welcome DE to have the freedom to express themselves on these matters if they so desire I just hope it isn't going to be restricted to a few singular things. There's a few other causes out in the world that would also benefit, and would benefit each other if united and discussed with each other, Pride Month has started and DE hasn't said much regarding it. It'd be a great opportunity to add something like a rainbow color palette. Other examples include the Hong Kong protests, the French Gilets Jaunes protests.

I understand money made for Tennocon tickets goes to charities, this one being for the following; Autism Ontario London and Alzheimer Society London and Middlesex.

I've been medically diagnosed with Autism since I was a toddler, and I cannot stress how immensely thankful I am that you're donating to charities that help those who have to go through life with these conditions. I suppose I'm one of the lucky ones, being High-Functioning, at least to the degree of having enough independant skills to work through life as an adult. Autism is surprisingly more common than people realise and I'm sure there are members of DE Staff on the spectrum. Unfortunately, autism is a spectrum. Meaning there is no "one fits all" definition. I imagine there are a great many who are simply unable to tell others what it is like living with these conditions. That's why I say I'm one of the lucky ones. Wasn't easy, but it could've been worse. I figured it might help the Warframe playerbase understand this more if instead of just donating (which again, cannot thank you enough) it might be worth talking about it. We've had the character of Rell. I could tell quickly his difference was a result of this. It was a good depiction of how difficult it can be. but even so I imagine many players don't fully understand him. Having these things explained through someone players feel a trusting connection to like DE could go a long way, along with showing Autism representation within DE's staff.

I know DE introduced special items to represent things, such as the Harmony Ribbon chest piece for Cancer Research.

There's also Movember for Men's Health I think? Which gave us cosmetic moustaches similar to the bunny ears. I've always wondered what happened to those.

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

I'm glad you brought up Honk Kong and I was so disappointing they said nothing about it 6 month ago and are still silent. .   To me they will only speak up about things as long as they feel it's safe, and won't cost them money. ..  virtual singling is safe and cheap...

[(NSW)Greybones]

Definitely a tricky one. Just supporting a cause causes all sorts of backlash, sometimes in unexpected ways, and with unforseeable ripple effects.

Personally I support them taking a stance. It’s super risky to stand for anything as a company, and if they can find some wiggle-room in our society to be supportive, I can respect that. Just saying “We take a stance” is punishing. If in due time they take stances that I don’t agree with, and I feel I can’t voice my opinion in a way to enact change, I’ll move on (I’m pretty happy to just talk Warframe stuff on the forums myself, at the moment).

As an aside, the CEO of my wife’s work (and of a multi-national company) was talking via video conferencing about supporting BLM, and was personally particularly affected by the situation in the US since he’d adopted two African-American children. Being a conference though, so much was brought to bear from others in the meeting on the risk of taking a stance. Everyone wanted to do something. No-one was happy when leaving the meeting, and I don’t know what was eventually settled on

Edited June 4, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[RX-3DR]

Medical causes are different from political causes. Especially when you're looking at divisive causes that are easily hijacked. Cancer Research has no real controversy and it's difficult twist it into something ugly. Political causes tend to be much more whimsical.

End of the day, it's all about scoring a net positive on PR points when it comes to political causes. With the international narrative, they're hedging their bets, just like many other game companies, in supporting the current protests in America. They stand very little to lose in copy pasting a generic .jpeg. At worst, they'll just be remembered for bending over backwards. At best, they'll avoid a riot busting their offices. Realistically, a mob isn't going to remember or care whether or not you posted that .jpeg, all they know is that you're a business with money. Compare it to Pride Month, where they can easily lose a lot of support because there are many countries that do not support it or oppose it and you don't want to estrange such a large base of customers. Same case with Hong Kong, they can burn bridges with China, which can lose them a lot of money. 

You're naive to think that a company really cares about something. If controversy sparks and it turns out that they've backed the wrong horse, they'll have to eventually backpedal when they see their finances dip beyond what they're comfortable with, whether by choice or investors forcing a change. DE doesn't hold massive markets or financial backing, they can't afford to constantly burn money unlike Disney and Marvel.

[OniDax]

40 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

I had intended to post this in the thread made by Rebecca but it became locked due to people derailing it with pictures of food (not gonna lie. One of the more unique derailments I've seen.)

With the recent thread announcement by DE regarding the goings on in America I'm curious if DE will be getting behind more causes. I'm genuinely not making this thread in bad faith or to be hostile. I've had more time to think about it and it feels like there is less tension. I made two posts in that earlier thread, I don't think I said anything too far out of bounds but I do regret those posts. It's kinda why I'm making this thread to be honest.

I'm going to fess up and state why that thread urked me, it wasn't about me disagreeing with the message. In fact I also agree with it. The injustice, not the riots. A whole bunch of game companies were all posting about it, and seeing DE do the same it felt "trendy", as if it wasn't about the message. It was about making said message. DE has as far as I'm aware, always tried to keep anything political or controversial outside of Warframe and its interaction with the playerbase.

The point I want to make about this thread is, I welcome DE to have the freedom to express themselves on these matters if they so desire I just hope it isn't going to be restricted to a few singular things. There's a few other causes out in the world that would also benefit, and would benefit each other if united and discussed with each other, Pride Month has started and DE hasn't said much regarding it. It'd be a great opportunity to add something like a rainbow color palette. Other examples include the Hong Kong protests, the French Gilets Jaunes protests.

I understand money made for Tennocon tickets goes to charities, this one being for the following; Autism Ontario London and Alzheimer Society London and Middlesex.

I've been medically diagnosed with Autism since I was a toddler, and I cannot stress how immensely thankful I am that you're donating to charities that help those who have to go through life with these conditions. I suppose I'm one of the lucky ones, being High-Functioning, at least to the degree of having enough independant skills to work through life as an adult. Autism is surprisingly more common than people realise and I'm sure there are members of DE Staff on the spectrum. Unfortunately, autism is a spectrum. Meaning there is no "one fits all" definition. I imagine there are a great many who are simply unable to tell others what it is like living with these conditions. That's why I say I'm one of the lucky ones. Wasn't easy, but it could've been worse. I figured it might help the Warframe playerbase understand this more if instead of just donating (which again, cannot thank you enough) it might be worth talking about it. We've had the character of Rell. I could tell quickly his difference was a result of this. It was a good depiction of how difficult it can be. but even so I imagine many players don't fully understand him. Having these things explained through someone players feel a trusting connection to like DE could go a long way, along with showing Autism representation within DE's staff.

I know DE introduced special items to represent things, such as the Harmony Ribbon chest piece for Cancer Research.

There's also Movember for Men's Health I think? Which gave us cosmetic moustaches similar to the bunny ears. I've always wondered what happened to those.

There is nothing controversial about supporting peaceful protests that are all about holding police officers accountable when they use excessive force and commit murder. Stop believing the lie that these protests are just violent riots. That's a lie. That argument is a political argument designed to discredit peaceful protests that are protected under the US Constitution. There is a lot more peaceful protest going on than rioting. It is not political to support human rights, and that's what this is: a human rights issue.

At the end of the day, though, DE is a business, and unfortunately, in the world of business, money is king. Businesses don't generally support things that might make them lose money, and conversely, they'll do things that they think will bring them more money.

[darkbrick]

i'm against discrimination, since i'm a minor too.

but seriously, rebecca shouldn't contaminated this good community with political issues or any other issues. let this community pure.

blacklivesmatter? seriously? all colors matter. not just black.

[Duduminador]

All I hear is... people using a cause to dismiss another...
Implying that large companies should never invest their time and money into humanitary causes (because it will allways be a form malicious dark magic self promotion regardless of how it's done)
Using the therm political to dismiss a humanitarian cause... like the word 'political' in itself is a form of pejorative. As if ideologies had no part in it.

Here is the thing. If a cause exists, and instead of identifying and relating to it, people start to use other groups to take its value away... no one is going anywhere. The world will never change.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Duduminador

[o0Despair0o]

1 hour ago, Zahnny said:

due to people derailing it with pictures of food (not gonna lie. One of the more unique derailments I've seen.)

I can sense MagPrime's wiggly magic at work here...

[RX-3DR]

10 minutes ago, Duduminador said:

All I hear is... people using a cause to dismiss another...
Implying that large companies should never invest their time and money into humanitary causes (because it will allways be a form malicious dark magic self promotion regardless of how it's done)
Using the therm political to dismiss a humanitarian cause... like the word 'political' in itself is a form of pejorative. As if ideologies had no part in it.

Here is the thing. If a cause exists, and instead of identifying and relating to it, people start to use other groups to take its value away... no one is going anywhere. The world will never change.

It is political. The movement is not actually a humanitarian cause, it is being marketed as one by a political group. If you look at the statistics which the movement is founded on, the justification is actually quite debatable. Adding in the inconsistency of who gets a protest and who dies without any coverage, it's a specific interest group designed to score political points.

It is not a black and white situation. It's equating a movement to feed everyone with a movement to feed only specific groups in order to garner support from those groups. @darkbrick presents it exactly right, if it was an actual humanitarian movement, why does the name indicate that it only caters to a specific group and why do their actions only cater to a specific group within that specific group?

But this is exactly why DE feels it's comfortable to come out and copy paste a .jpeg. It's being internationally marketed as a humanitarian movement and a lot of people will buy it as such.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

call it virtue signalling if you wish - maybe in some cases it is - but you won't see a major AAA Developer (and CERTAINLY not a Publisher) supporting causes like DE does. I've never once seen anyone else in the videogame industry even try to acknowledge real life issues like Cancer, the Australian Wildfires, #BlackLivesMatter and more. their heart is in the right place, and while it's usually easy to be cynical and say it's all done for their own benefit, I don't believe that's the case here. not all the time at least, since I'm sure DE understand the potential for backlash every time they take a stance on something.

of course, there are some subjects that are gonna be Taboo due to circumstance. as an example, I highly doubt DE would ever dream of saying anything bad about China since they are effectively owned by a Chinese company, and if Leyou pulled out, DE would most likely go under. you don't bite the hand that feeds you, as the saying goes.

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

There's only one thing that can erase racism

A job for everyone, with the fair paycheck and with workers' right

DE might be different, but they fall into the big enterprises category, which are the main culprits of workers' and unemployed people's problems

It's not political anymore, when there are corporations that has revenues bigger than big Countries, but they have industries in Countries where people are in bad condition and accept few dollars a month, while the CEOs literally swims in money

Racism is not about the black, the white, the yellow...it's about a bunch of riches against a world that is poorer by the day

Still riots can't be accepted, looting can't be accepted

You must vote, but not only at the election, you must vote first and foremost with your wallet and don't allow big enterprises to take advantage of workers

You know, in a better age, embargo was something that Countries put on other Countries to force them to give rights to workers

You can blame a president, whichever of whichever Country, but you must blame the Corporations that blackmail and extort Countries

[kevoisvevo]

i for one want to keep politics and any social message out of my games. i don't want such things interfering in my free time. The real world is S#&$ty enough, no need to make the virtual world the same.

Edited June 4, 2020 by kevoisvevo

[kwlingo]

This is a touchy topic because by supporting one cause that involves in discrimination and not another, you leave the door open to many other issues that lots of people don't want to address or will always conflict with. One example would be where was DE and the world in support of the Asian community when they were threatened, beaten and killed by people because of the Corona-virus origins? As you can see way too touchy if we start talking about discrimination as a open topic. Even when the Mexicans children, teens, and women were beaten, raped and killed by US soldiers at the camps the Trump's foundation set up for illegal Mexican Immigrants who crossed the borders?

Id say gaming and celebrities should stay out of politics and focus on helping aid in destructive events like earthquakes, tornadoes and fires like in Australia. Unless they want to be political.

Edited June 4, 2020 by kwlingo

[Travis05]

This a typical example that explains why they can never win.

Staying silent: They dont care! Hypocrites! Greedy!

Saying something: Hypocrites! They really dont care! This a tactic to milk our money even further!

I dont mind if they say something about human problems. In fact, its much better than staying silent. And this doesnt mean im going to give them more money, or agree with their design decisions in game. They are completely unrelated things.

You all are too sensitive. "My precious free time shouldnt be bothered!"

I wouldnt mind even if they posted about BLM daily. No matter the amount of support, it will never be enough while there are people who cant be bothered. Living in their small bubbles.

 

[Travis05]

hace 1 hora, RX-3DR dijo:

It is political. The movement is not actually a humanitarian cause, it is being marketed as one by a political group. If you look at the statistics which the movement is founded on, the justification is actually quite debatable. Adding in the inconsistency of who gets a protest and who dies without any coverage, it's a specific interest group designed to score political points.

It is not a black and white situation. It's equating a movement to feed everyone with a movement to feed only specific groups in order to garner support from those groups. @darkbrick presents it exactly right, if it was an actual humanitarian movement, why does the name indicate that it only caters to a specific group and why do their actions only cater to a specific group within that specific group?

But this is exactly why DE feels it's comfortable to come out and copy paste a .jpeg. It's being internationally marketed as a humanitarian movement and a lot of people will buy it as such.

This is like saying straight pride parades should exist. Everyone involved or nothing! Stupid

It wouldnt need to cater to a specific group if people really thought black people are equal. Thats no the case. Black people need specific attention cause they receive specific hatred. Hatred that get them killed.

Its no a humanitarian movement? I dont care if companies or political groups use it for their own interests, like they do with pride month. Its a humanitarian issue.

At least they copy paste. You are trying to diminish the issue instead

[Nasrol]

5 hours ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

I'm glad you brought up Honk Kong and I was so disappointing they said nothing about it 6 month ago and are still silent. .   To me they will only speak up about things as long as they feel it's safe, and won't cost them money. ..

I couldn't agree more with you. Not only is the Honk Kong issue not given anywhere near the attention in the media it deserves, but it should concern everyone who believes in democracy.  You have to feel sorry for those poor people, they really have been abandoned by the rest of the world to a most unpleasant fate. It must be like the moments before a car crash for them, they can see what is going to happen but can do absolutely nothing about it.

 

5 hours ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

virtual singling is safe and cheap...

You can totally bet on this. If at any point this thread turns into a pro Honk Kong freedom topic, which is just as important in its own way as the current BLM issues. I think you’re going to see them apply a double standard here if that’s the direction this thread goes in. I would love to be proven wrong... 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Nasrol

[kwlingo]

11 minutes ago, Travis05 said:

I wouldnt mind even if they posted about BLM daily. No matter the amount of support, it will never be enough while there are people who cant be bothered. Living in their small bubbles.

It seems like you are only addressing one issue, "BLM." There are so many other discrimination topics still currently happening at the same time as this event unfolds.

Don't think your saying "small bubble" is applicable in this solo address.

Im a minority group as well, but I live in a mixing bowl family where we have all White, Black, Asian and Hispanics as brother and sister in laws. So Im not addressing any over another but it seems like the media and politics are.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

2 hours ago, TheGildedOni said:

There is nothing controversial about supporting peaceful protests that are all about holding police officers accountable when they use excessive force and commit murder. Stop believing the lie that these protests are just violent riots. That's a lie. That argument is a political argument designed to discredit peaceful protests that are protected under the US Constitution. There is a lot more peaceful protest going on than rioting. It is not political to support human rights, and that's what this is: a human rights issue.

At the end of the day, though, DE is a business, and unfortunately, in the world of business, money is king. Businesses don't generally support things that might make them lose money, and conversely, they'll do things that they think will bring them more money.

they are not peacefull theres cases of protesters murdering people i have seen on my country cars being murdered in the name of the protest this far from peaceful 

[Corvid]

2 hours ago, TheGildedOni said:

There is nothing controversial about supporting peaceful protests that are all about holding police officers accountable when they use excessive force and commit murder. Stop believing the lie that these protests are just violent riots.

From what I can tell, both peaceful protests and riots are occurring. It is entirely reasonable to denounce the latter while supporting the former. After all, there is nuance to this situation (somewhat ironically, it's not just black and white).

Police brutality should be stopped, and those responsible held to account. You won't see me arguing against that. But it must also be acknowledged that more radical elements of the protest have been whipped up into a frenzy.

17 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

i have seen on my country cars being murdered in the name of the protest

Do you mean people in cars?

[RX-3DR]

24 minutes ago, Travis05 said:

This is like saying straight pride parades should exist. Everyone involved or nothing! Stupid

It wouldnt need to cater to a specific group if people really thought black people are equal. Thats no the case. Black people need specific attention cause they receive specific hatred. Hatred that get them killed.

Its no a humanitarian movement? I dont care if companies or political groups use it for their own interests, like they do with pride month. Its a humanitarian issue.

At least they copy paste. You are trying to diminish the issue instead

@kwlingo explained on this issue already. They need special attention, so the Asian people who were attacked over fears of the recent virus don't need any attention because they're not the right type of minority? See the can of worms you're opening?

As far as I can tell though, the way the media reports thing, if they thought they were equal, they wouldn't be giving as much coverage on it or they would be giving a lot more coverage to a ton of other cases.

[Voltage]

I honestly don't care what DE supports as long as they aren't clogging the Forums with this nonsense that doesn't belong. It's a toxic subject as proven by the other day.

I hope this thread gets locked (nothing against you OP) and anything else related in the future is too. These are the sorts of things DE can clog up Twitter or Facebook with, not a Forum where we are already waiting on Deadlock Protocol announcements.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Voltage

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

6 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I honestly don't care what DE supports as long as they aren't clogging the Forums with this nonsense that doesn't belong. It's a toxic subject as proven by the other day.

I hope this thread gets locked (nothing against you OP) and anything else related in the future is too. These are the sorts of things DE can clog up Twitter or Facebook with, not a Forum where we are already waiting on Deadlock Protocol announcements.

Couldn't agree more, and it's not that people are against the message they just don't want to see a video game forum with unrelated stuff they already see in other places

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

5 hours ago, Duduminador said:

The world will never change.

I respectfully highly disagree.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

5 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

 

Edit: oops wrong person

Edited June 4, 2020 by (PS4)Akuma_Asura_

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

5 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

call it virtue signalling if you wish - maybe in some cases it is - but you won't see a major AAA Developer (and CERTAINLY not a Publisher) supporting causes like DE does. I've never once seen anyone else in the videogame industry even try to acknowledge real life issues like Cancer, the Australian Wildfires, #BlackLivesMatter and more. their heart is in the right place, and while it's usually easy to be cynical and say it's all done for their own benefit, I don't believe that's the case here. not all the time at least, since I'm sure DE understand the potential for backlash every time they take a stance on something.

of course, there are some subjects that are gonna be Taboo due to circumstance. as an example, I highly doubt DE would ever dream of saying anything bad about China since they are effectively owned by a Chinese company, and if Leyou pulled out, DE would most likely go under. you don't bite the hand that feeds you, as the saying goes.

https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/square-enix-ubisoft-and-more-contribute-to-black-lives-matter-movement-2680662

https://twitter.com/SquareEnix/status/1267927872066314240?s=20

https://twitter.com/InfinityWard/status/1268297976901849089?s=20

https://twitter.com/CallofDuty/status/1267626497902174208?s=20

Edited June 4, 2020 by (PS4)Akuma_Asura_