List of bad systems in Warframe

[Kashtan]

Introduction

Hello and welcome to my list of bad systems in Warframe. To start off I'm fully aware that this list will most likely get ignored but I just wanted to make it for personal enjoyment. Who knows maybe someone will learn something.

 

The list

1. The Foundry

"What is that? A mobile game?" That's probably the first reaction of many new players once introduced to the ridiculous crafting times of the foundry. This especially stings the newbies because these people are in the biggest need of new equipment to get the mastery required to unlock more content. Advanced players usually don't mind these crafting times because they already have their favorite setups and are just crafting new things either for mastery or collection purposes. These timers need to go. DE is no longer a "small indie studio" and that is one of the main reasons why mainly the "bitter veterans" remain in the game long enough to gather a reasonable arsenal.

2. Arbitrations and Elite Sanctuary Onslaught

Advertised as the "endgame content" turned out to just be a glorified endo and relic/focus farms. These modes are in a heavy need of a rework both in functionality and droptables.

3. Eidolon Hunts

Extremely tedious, time gated boss rush. Do I need to say anything else?

4. Rivens

Oh boy rivens. The biggest mistake DE ever made and now they refuse to do anything with it to ease the grind and make it into a functional system instead of a gambling machine that it is right now. Speaking of which DE once removed an option to "roll" your pet's fur patterns/colors for a small fee of platinum due to it "becoming a gambling machine" such an irony they added it back in form of gambling for mods. Except you don't pay with platinum instead you pay with the most valuable thing in life, your time.

5. Void Relics

Basically it boils down to glorified lootboxes which you open not by paying but by doing an alert-style mission called "void fissure". The catch is you can only open one at a time and the missions you get to choose from are entirely random so the most time efficient way to open them is rushing capture missions. Wow such engaging content.

6. Timers, timers everywhere

Daily syndicate standing cap, 5 minutes each for what usually is a 2000 credits cache in survival missions, 1 hour of idle wait for each kuva flood, 2 hours of wait for arbitration mission and many more timers that i've probably missed.

 

 

That's it for now. Feel free to throw in your 5 cents to the list if you want to.

[Jim22]

KUVA LICH 

[Kashtan]

Just now, Jim22 said:

KUVA LICH 

Oh yeah forgot about that ha ha. I guess it's a similar issue that is with Eidolons. Extremely tedious and massively time consuming with minimal rewards.

[Loza03]

Energy. It's antiquated, simple as. We can generate vast amounts of it and use abilities whenever we want. In theory, this is not a bad thing, being able to use Warframe powers freely is an excellent thing that helps make Warframe distinct, and can add another layer to your arsenal and strategy.

In practice, this applies to 'run fast' and 'delete entire room full of enemies with infinite damage, line-of-sight bypassing explosion' as equal. There is very little strategy in 'use same power 45 times in a row', and when that's the 'optimal' playstyle, that's going to be a problem

[Chicken-Biryani]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

Energy. It's antiquated, simple as. We can generate vast amounts of it and use abilities whenever we want. In theory, this is not a bad thing, being able to use Warframe powers freely is an excellent thing that helps make Warframe distinct, and can add another layer to your arsenal and strategy.

In practice, this applies to 'run fast' and 'delete entire room full of enemies with infinite damage, line-of-sight bypassing explosion' as equal. There is very little strategy in 'use same power 45 times in a row', and when that's the 'optimal' playstyle, that's going to be a problem

Maybe energy isn't the problem, but a symptom of another problem. Take most mission types in game. There is no incentive to "kill one enemy with your primary gun, empty your secondary into two other blokes and them jump to the roof of the tile and harpoon the fourth enemy Assassin's Creed style"... When all you are gonna get is a bronze mod or 100 endo or lith relic, you are better going with "Press 4, nuke everything, repeat the mission 6.9 times". 

[FLSH_BNG]

Mouse and keyboard. It's antiquated and sluggish. The game should support neural interfacing so that we don't have to deal with the BS of pushing physical buttons and actually moving while sitting on our butts complaining about how we could make the game better if people just listened to our stupid cries for recognition.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

1 hour ago, adek183 said:

Rivens

There's absolutely zero content that requires rivens. Pure opt-in, and they do their job of buffing janky weapons to usability.

If we're talking redundant parasitic garbage systems... hard to think of anything worse than operator combat.

Fishing and mining also remain an insult to my time and brain.

[Kashtan]

16 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

There's absolutely zero content that requires rivens. Pure opt-in, and they do their job of buffing janky weapons to usability.

If we're talking redundant parasitic garbage systems... hard to think of anything worse than operator combat.

Fishing and mining also remain an insult to my time and brain.

The point isn't if rivens are opt-in or not. When you think about it everything in warframe is opt-in and you might aswell sit in your orbiter for 1000 hours playing your shawzin doing abolutely nothing and you'll accomplish similar things that people with "endgame" setups do. All you have to do is play a frame with cheese potential and you can survive infinitely.The point is that it's a bad system that doesn't even give you a feeling of being rewarded for your time.

[DrivaMain]

Pet Loyalty needs to go, punishing the player by -30% companion damage penalty is stupid and regaining loyalty is daily capped to the point of not worth building companions for damage. Sentinels and MOAs already outperform beast companions in damage because they have no loyalty so no damage penalty, they can shoot thus covering a larger area, and they have more modding freedom because they have a weapon slot.

52 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Energy. It's antiquated, simple as. We can generate vast amounts of it and use abilities whenever we want. In theory, this is not a bad thing, being able to use Warframe powers freely is an excellent thing that helps make Warframe distinct, and can add another layer to your arsenal and strategy.

In practice, this applies to 'run fast' and 'delete entire room full of enemies with infinite damage, line-of-sight bypassing explosion' as equal. There is very little strategy in 'use same power 45 times in a row', and when that's the 'optimal' playstyle, that's going to be a problem

Problem is that most mission types demands nuking for reasonable reward/time ratio and the margin between using nukes and non nukes is pretty large. Take defense for example, if you use a Saryn spamming 1 and 4 one rotation can last 3-5 minutes. If you use anything else? Expect getting rotation A up to 8 minutes. ESO literally forces you to use nuke frames because you cannot reach Zone 8 (Rotation C) due to the large efficiency drain.

What DE needs to do first is to rework those mission types first so AoE is not a must then DE can touch on the volatile Nuke/AoE meta.

[saghzs]

Instead of just pointing out the obvious which has been done thousands of times already, come up with your own ideas on how to improve those systems.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

2 minutes ago, adek183 said:

The point is that it's a bad system that doesn't even give you a feeling of being rewarded for your time.

My opinion point is that rivens are a good system that rewards you for math and research. If you don't like them, don't engage, and you lose nothing.

 

3 minutes ago, saghzs said:

Instead of just pointing out the obvious which has been done thousands of times already, come up with your own ideas on how to improve those systems.

Players are much better at identifying problems in games than solving them. There are enough 6,000-word "rework" fan fictions here already.

[Marvelous_A]

I think the time gate is ok for most of the parts coz you can get almost everything crucial items for free. The bad time gates are for example the day night cycle on Earth, Murex time gate in Sparlet Spear etc they are just there to screw with your gaming schedule. Not considerate with those who have a job and have limited time for games.

[Voltage]

The only point I agree on in this thread is Void Relics and slightly when it comes to Rivens. Everything else is great and fits pretty well into the game. Could they all be better? Sure, but they have a great foundation and potential to always be better.

[cakee_]

17 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

My opinion point is that rivens are a good system that rewards you for math and research. If you don't like them, don't engage, and you lose nothing.

Research and math do practically nothing when it comes down to the RNG of rivens, I guess you can use math to see how much kuva you need to do [x] amount of rolls.

[AltairFerenc]

TL;DR where's the "haha" button again?

2 hours ago, adek183 said:

The list

1. The Foundry

so what else do you want then? buy everything for plat and make the game pay2win? the foundry is perfectly fine, only some crafting times need to get lowered

2 hours ago, adek183 said:

2. Arbitrations and Elite Sanctuary Onslaught

Advertised as the "endgame content" turned out to just be a glorified endo and relic/focus farms. These modes are in a heavy need of a rework both in functionality and droptables.

well yeah I have to angree on that one

2 hours ago, adek183 said:

3. Eidolon Hunts

Extremely tedious, time gated boss rush. Do I need to say anything else?

makes sense lore wise and they are far from tedious, eidolons are literally the best bosses of the game and the only ones where the invincibly phase isn't horrible.

2 hours ago, adek183 said:

Oh boy rivens. The biggest mistake DE ever made and now they refuse to do anything with it to ease the grind and make it into a functional system instead of a gambling machine that it is right now. Speaking of which DE once removed an option to "roll" your pet's fur patterns/colors for a small fee of platinum due to it "becoming a gambling machine" such an irony they added it back in form of gambling for mods. Except you don't pay with platinum instead you pay with the most valuable thing in life, your time.

well yeah rivens failed in thier porpuse but it is the most optional thing you'll ever encounter, they are absolutly not needed for meta weapons or even most of medoicore weapons don't need them since there's no challange at all.

2 hours ago, adek183 said:

5. Void Relics

Basically it boils down to glorified lootboxes which you open not by paying but by doing an alert-style mission called "void fissure". The catch is you can only open one at a time and the missions you get to choose from are entirely random so the most time efficient way to open them is rushing capture missions. Wow such engaging content.

better to farm things than keys were? absolutly, do I like relics? not a single bit, messed up the lore, but since the prime pool just gets bigger and bigger and keys were much more limited it had to be done.

 

2 hours ago, adek183 said:

1 hour of idle wait for each kuva flood, 2 hours of wait for arbitration

what about you don't exit the mission so you don't have to wait? arbitrations are endless for ar eason, and what do you wan't from kuva floods anyway? reading this pretty sure you hate liches too so you don't do them, you have no need for the relic and kuva surv is better for kuva farming unless you have a reasource booster.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

2 minutes ago, cakee_ said:

Research and math do practically nothing when it comes down to the RNG of rivens

There's more to it than burning kuva until you hit a god roll, which I really don't recommend. If you understand well the math behind your favorite janky weapons that actually benefit from rivens, you'll notice many of them benefit most from things like elemental mod compression or specific stats normally only found on weak mods like reload or punch, as opposed to the cc/cd/ms/-- god roll. This increases the pool of viable rolls dramatically for rolling, and lets you find some surprisingly powerful rivens in the 100p-300p price range.

 

28 minutes ago, Voltage said:

The only point I agree on in this thread is Void Relics and slightly when it comes to Rivens.

These are the two I disagreed most strongly on. I don't envy the devs that have to figure out what their players want.

 

2 hours ago, adek183 said:

1 hour of idle wait for each kuva flood

Agree most strongly on this, DE please give us unlimited kuva floods.

[Kashtan]

43 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

My opinion point is that rivens are a good system that rewards you for math and research. If you don't like them, don't engage, and you lose nothing.

What "math" do you exactly need to do when you throw kuva at a wall and see when it sticks? You have absolutely no control over the rivens besides being protected from choosing a worse roll. So enlighten me because looks like I'm clearly missing something.

"If you don't like them don't engage"

That's not how you make a good system that's fun to use.

[SneakyErvin]

Rivens and ESO are probably the two worst systems in the game.

Example of why rivens are bad. I got a Tekko riven yesterday, been wanting to use the prime for a while but wanted a riven for it to make it a bit more free when it came to modding for different frames. 160 rolls later I got a decent CD+AS riven for it with -infested damage. That is around 550k Kuva for a decent roll.

ESO is simply bad because it is nothing compared what was planned for it. And I'd like to say #*!% you very much Saryn and the gang for how it turned out, go shove your mindless AoE up your hineys.

Outside of those two things most others are good. I'm not particularly fond of eidolon hunting, but it fits the lore and the fights are mechanically sound. For me they just happen to not quite fit into the game, mostly due to camera handling and all the screen clutter in the eidolon fights.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

@adek183 I explained about rivens in the post directly above. I'd welcome continued improvement to the riven system, I'm sorry if I implied it shouldn't be improved to be more enjoyable to more players, just that a lot of the negativity towards rivens is undeserved and often due to misunderstanding pricing and power level.

[(PSN)poloslash18]

The fact that void relics are rewards within rewards has annoyed me to oblivion. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by (PS4)poloslash18

[Hypernaut1]

i think people exaggerate when they say it took 100+ rolls for a "decent" riven. Just because you cant sell your riven for 5k plat doesnt mean it isnt decent. In over 150 rivens it's never taken me over 15 rolls to get something thats good enough to replace standard mods and make the weapon better than it was without a riven. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Hypernaut1

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

In regards to the foundry. You forgot this is a free to play game. So yes it’s going to have time Gates like a mobile game.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

i think people exaggerate when they say it took 100+ rolls for a "decent" riven. Just because you cant sell your riven for 5k plat doesnt mean it isnt decent. In over 150 rivens it's never taken me over 15 rolls to get something thats good enough to replace standard mods and make the weapon better than it was without a riven. 

It is all RNG.

My Battacor riven came with CD, crit chance, damage and a negative directly when I unveiled it, my Opticor riven required something like 5 rolls, Nukor less than 20, same with my paracesis. Then I have a bunch with 50+ rolls and my bastard outlier Tekko with around 160. That is why the system is so bad because you cant plan any part of it outside of farming relics to sell crap and then buy rivens, something I personally do not do.

[Luciole77]

ESO must be reworked for sure. Host migrations fiesta and only relics...need more things like riven slivers, kuva maybe, specters??

Eidolons...for sure but i doubt DE will spend time doing reworks because scarlet spear. Needs to change drops in eidolons....more rivens maybe?

Sorties...outdated. Need rivens slivers, a little more kuva, umbra forma with same chance with legendary core?

 

 

[TARINunit9]

6 hours ago, adek183 said:

1. The Foundry

"What is that? A mobile game?" That's probably the first reaction of many new players once introduced to the ridiculous crafting times of the foundry. This especially stings the newbies because these people are in the biggest need of new equipment to get the mastery required to unlock more content. Advanced players usually don't mind these crafting times because they already have their favorite setups and are just crafting new things either for mastery or collection purposes. These timers need to go. DE is no longer a "small indie studio" and that is one of the main reasons why mainly the "bitter veterans" remain in the game long enough to gather a reasonable arsenal.

 

6. Timers, timers everywhere

Daily syndicate standing cap, 5 minutes each for what usually is a 2000 credits cache in survival missions, 1 hour of idle wait for each kuva flood, 2 hours of wait for arbitration mission and many more timers that i've probably missed.

They serve an obvious and clear purpose: to make sure you come back tomorrow. And they work. New players have an actual reason to keep checking the game out instead of binging on the tutorial for three hours and never playing again

(Except for the godawful credit caches, those are just pointless drop table dilution)