The Revenant Rework

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

8 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

And as we've established, his issues can be fixed with QoL and doesn't need to be nuked from orbit. You not liking his theme doesn't mean he should go away.

I literally just suggested that they could put his abilities on a new different, actually vampire themed, frame. And then give Revenant actually Eidolon themed abilities. Because while I don’t like his kit and think it’s still underwhelming for a Vampire frame I wouldn’t have to care because it’s not actively intruding on a frame who’s theme deserves better than what it got.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

And as we’ve established his issues go much deeper than that. You’re denial of them doesn’t make them go away.

And anyone who knows your tag knows your issues are routed in subjective claims instead of verifiable core issues that demand attention from the devs. 

Wether he has problems or not is actually aside from the point. Your dislike is what is driving your crusade. And that's why no one wants to back you about this. 

[Mediloric]

I do get where you're coming from Gears, I really do. Revenant doesn't seem like a frame that fits his theme if you get my meaning, and while I loved the idea of what was shown he ended up being vasily different to what I expected, crappy but fine.  

But despite all that, he does work, his mis-mash kit while quite weird and wonky in ways,  has proven to be quite effective and I hate to say it he's not a bad frame, he excels in solo, has decent scaling, and has one of the strongest defensive skills in the game, and while he does need some tidying up, I highly doubt we'll get any sort of rework at this point and personally I'm okay with that. 

However I have to agree with Knight Ramine. this as Ramine put it best "Crusade" of yours is getting to (if not already) to the point where nearly all your points are going to dismissed purely because it's you and the negative reactions you're getting whenever you bring Revenant up.  

Even if you did have valid points (I'm not saying you don't I can't really comment) it's hard to have any sort of dialogue on this issue you have cause you're just actively trying to shut down people's criticism  just because you don't like the counterargument. 

And while I do find myself PARTLY agreeing with you, I can't actively back you because of how you handle this! 

it's maybe time to stop and move on? 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

I think his rework should fit more of the theme of an eidelon/sentient frame. If I were to give him a rework I would.

Revenant

·       All abilities will have a casting speed increase.

 

1st ability REWORK:

Revenant shoots a laser seeking projectiles from his hand dealing damage and de-buffing enemies.

·       There are 7 laser projectiles.

·       Pressing the ability will target one enemy while holding the ability will gives you the ability to mark up to 7 enemies before firing at them.

·       This does 600 impact and puncture damage.

·       If the enemies are still alive the enemies` damage output will be decreased by 50% for 10 seconds.

·       Enemies damage output laser projectile amount and mark count can be increased by strength mods.

·       The duration of de-buff can be increased by duration mods.

·        (Synergy) Enemies affected by the 2nd ability will be vulnerable to damage by 30% and will cost no energy.

 

2nd ability:

·       It has 15 charges and can be increased by strength mods.

·       The tendrils are visually on both arms instead of only on one side.

 

3rd ability REWORK:

Revenant summons 8 vomvalyst to seek out and attack enemies.

·       The amount of Vomvalysts cannot be increased by duration mods

·       They will deal 1,000 damage and can be increased by strength mods.

·       They last up to 30 seconds and can be increased by duration mods.

·       When ability duration expires, they will make a last attempted to attack by charging at an enemy and exploding dealing 2,000 radiation damage in a 15m range. If there is no enemy around, they will just explode.

·       Explosion damage and radius cannot be increased by mods.

·       Only Revenant can kill Vomvalysts.

·       When enemies or Vomvalysts are killed, they will leave behind an energy pillar lasting 20 seconds where enemies walking near it will take damage and energy projectiles will seek out enemies damaging them.

·       Allies that stand on the energy pillar will receive 50 (over) shields. This will also include companions.

·       The colour of the Vomvalysts are determined by chosen energy colour.

·       (Synergy) if you cast while 2nd ability is active, the Vomvolysts will carry charges which allies can receive 2 charges by being near them.

·       Vomvalyst with charges will have a smoke effect on them.

·       (Synergy) Casting 1st ability on them will zip Revenant to them.

 

4th ability:

·       Using it will consume 10 energy a second and 15 to increase damage.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

6 minutes ago, Mediloric said:

while I do find myself PARTLY agreeing with you, I can't actively back you because of how you handle this! 

Same.

[Kaggelos]

I know i will sound like an ass, and I apologize in advance, so here it goes; (also this is my biased opinion)

I never liked his abilities from a functional, thematic and an aesthetic aspect.
First ability, I dont like. Not my taste.
Second, is functionally fine i guess, but not extremely fun imo.
His 3 is my favorite (comperatively), but visually i hate it, since his model just disappears and reappears, it looks cheaply made from a visual and animation standpoint imo.
Aaaaand his 4... I just... like, why spinning? Like, no, I already hate the "Spin to Win" mentality (thank the non-existent god that died as it was such an unstylish way to fight).

And that concludes my rant. Just had to vent a bit xD

ps nothing against Rebecca OBVIOUSLY.

[DrivaMain]

 

You leave my immortal Eidolon Corrupted boy alone.

[Andele3025]

Personally i still think his 1 shouldnt be as much of a mind control skill as it should just be pure faction swap (hostile to everyone, including players) that then also berserks the unit into attacking a lot more, dealing massively less damage and equally taking more damage (with enemies stunned by 2 on infection then instantly dropping a pillar the moment the infection kicks in).
Infected hits and pillar hits in turn being able to propagate the effect infinitely (aka there being no cast 1, it hits, targets hit cant infect further)

Then because the 1 would buff damage taken, also reave can be soft fixed into actually having good base damage vs non-infected (helping its helminth option) AND be finally given vertical movement, maybe even augment or baseline option to "channel" it while holding the button/being duration independent.

Also Revenant 4 needs to stop being anti-synergy with his thralls/1, it shouldnt destroy the energy pillars and it instead GROWS them. Also the fountains are now the part that grant shields to people in them instead of the leftover SFX glimmer that often clips through the ground when they get destroyed by his 4... or even better, drop a energy orb when the pillar times out (to encourage different playstyles/more damage and spread via single 1 cast vs more energy orbs but very short infect durations).

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

I don't blame @(XBOX)GearsMatrix301 though. 

It's hard not to dismiss opinions in this forum because people don't understand a simple concept: 

=> Not every opinion is worth the same. <= 

People around here just can't comprehend that opinions based on facts are not on the same level as common opinions based on preferences. That's why he sounds rude to basically anyone, and I kinda comprehend him because my modus operandi is almost the same. We automatically dismiss anything that is not straight up based on logic, facts, numbers, etc...because these things are not considered relevant by us. Like, seriously, there's a guy that hates my guts to this day just because I said, a long time ago (almost 2 years), that he shouldn't talk about numbers when he doesn't comprehend how the math works in the game. I think his name is Hopper something something.

That's why we sound rude (and I'll be honest, sometimes I am very rude), we often forget that some people don't know this concept.

[Andele3025]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

And it was actually Steve that ruined this.

Remember, Steve only suggested the idea (that Rev use the regular sentient disco spin lasers with adapting damage), not the implementation/how the mechanics are tweaked which are the crux that breaks it.

Mirage ironically has the better sentient ball now that the PvP augments are in (not to mention that rev already has his other hand in perfect position to spawn a wispy energy sphere for the lasers instead of being stapled in his hand randomly).

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

You're one person against hundreds that find revenant OK.

And one person against thousands that don't want him reworked drastically like you do

And finally, you're asking a dev team that haven't done any major Reimagines or big reworks since Wukong's 

It's kind of like my Octavia situation.

[Frostyinferno]

Please no, I like Revenant the way he is. Like others said, a few tweaks are really all he needs. His theming is basically irrelevant at this point. He's established now and has his fans, like me.

[YikersDikers]

I like Revenant's kit as is, it's all I've ever known him as. But if he were to get a rework to make him feel more like an Eidolon, then I wouldn't be against it. I like his aesthetic and his 2nd and 4th ability, but that's where it ends for me. I don't really care for minion abilities, and the 3 heal is alright, but when you are essentially invulnerable for the majority of the game, it doesn't really work. 

And his passive? That doesn't exist for me. It says he interacts with the PoE differently and the Eidolons too, but all it allows him to do is drink the night water safely. And the knock down on shield break? Non-existant. If they were to keep his 2, with some visual tweaks (E.g. more Eidolon tendrils) and made it so his 4 looks more like the Gauntalyst's attack and replaced his passive, 1 and 3, I'd be completely ok with that. And for his passive, I really want them to make it so he acts more like an Eidolon, this could be done by making it so that his overshields aren't affected by the Eidolons Magnetic Screams, or something.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

13 hours ago, Mediloric said:

I do get where you're coming from Gears, I really do. Revenant doesn't seem like a frame that fits his theme if you get my meaning, and while I loved the idea of what was shown he ended up being vasily different to what I expected, crappy but fine.  

But despite all that, he does work, his mis-mash kit while quite weird and wonky in ways,  has proven to be quite effective and I hate to say it he's not a bad frame, he excels in solo, has decent scaling, and has one of the strongest defensive skills in the game, and while he does need some tidying up, I highly doubt we'll get any sort of rework at this point and personally I'm okay with that. 

However I have to agree with Knight Ramine. this as Ramine put it best "Crusade" of yours is getting to (if not already) to the point where nearly all your points are going to dismissed purely because it's you and the negative reactions you're getting whenever you bring Revenant up.  

Even if you did have valid points (I'm not saying you don't I can't really comment) it's hard to have any sort of dialogue on this issue you have cause you're just actively trying to shut down people's criticism  just because you don't like the counterargument. 

And while I do find myself PARTLY agreeing with you, I can't actively back you because of how you handle this! 

it's maybe time to stop and move on? 

I’ve said this several times. I’ll stop when Revenant gets reworked.

And I find it absolutely insulting that I somehow have a bad reputation for dismissing people about this when that’s exactly what everybody else here is doing to me. I’m actually trying, I’m actually making an effort. But noooo. You have that  “OnE HuNdReD pErCeNt DaMaGe NeGaTiOn” delivered through one of the worst ability designs and suddenly everybody thinks the frame is amazing and all criticism of it is folly.

Enthral is useless, Mesmer is over rated and worthless in anything that isn’t index (not to mention Revenant would literally be better off with any other tank ability in the game), Reave requires Enthrall to do its scaling damage thing, so that ultimately makes that worthless, and Danse, being the only actually Eidolon themed ability, is the only thing Revenant has that isn’t fundamentally awful. These are issues, these are issues that directly stem from Revenant having a vampire theme shoved down his throat. And that needs to be addressed and resolved.

And I don’t need some highly vocal minority to agree with me to achieve that. Remember Revenant was the 30th most played frame of 2020 and that’s out of 45 frames. He’s in the bottom 1/3. So all these people who say he’s fine and doesn’t need fixes aren’t the majority of players.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

You're one person against hundreds that find revenant OK.

And one person against thousands that don't want him reworked drastically like you do

And finally, you're asking a dev team that haven't done any major Reimagines or big reworks since Wukong's 

It's kind of like my Octavia situation.

Except Octavia actually good.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

10 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

 

You leave my immortal Eidolon Corrupted boy alone.

Never.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, Frostyinferno said:

Please no, I like Revenant the way he is. Like others said, a few tweaks are really all he needs. His theming is basically irrelevant at this point. He's established now and has his fans, like me.

Gonna just completely ignore the part where I said they could just throw his kit on a new frame?

Like I genuinely have no reason to care about whether Revenant is a good vampire frame or not, because Sevagoth is going to provide everything I would want from a vampire frame. Mechanically speaking of course, not aesthetics. Don’t want to see anyone saying “why do you want a vampire frame to shoot out a giant shadow form of himself?”

So if they transfer Revenants powers to a completely new, vampire themed frame. Then Revenant gets to be Eidolon themed, Rebecca gets her separate vampire themed frame that she can admire, and I get to not continuously rant about it because Sevagoth will be a suitable replacement for what I would’ve wanted.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

17 hours ago, (XBOX)GodMasterTP said:

I don't blame @(XBOX)GearsMatrix301 though. 

It's hard not to dismiss opinions in this forum because people don't understand a simple concept: 

=> Not every opinion is worth the same. <= 

People around here just can't comprehend that opinions based on facts are not on the same level as common opinions based on preferences. That's why he sounds rude to basically anyone, and I kinda comprehend him because my modus operandi is almost the same. We automatically dismiss anything that is not straight up based on logic, facts, numbers, etc...because these things are not considered relevant by us. Like, seriously, there's a guy that hates my guts to this day just because I said, a long time ago (almost 2 years), that he shouldn't talk about numbers when he doesn't comprehend how the math works in the game. I think his name is Hopper something something.

That's why we sound rude (and I'll be honest, sometimes I am very rude), we often forget that some people don't know this concept.

The problem with your claim is that it's pretty easily possible for anyone to stroll through Gear's post history to see how he dismisses people's counter arguments and how his entire crusade is purely based on a subjective take on the frame. 

 

They wanted one thing. We got another thing. Arguments made by them are attempts to give validity to what they are asking for. 

So the debate isn't based on logics or facts or w.e you're attempting to say. 

 

No one is saying that Gears has never made any valid points or criticisms against the design. I actually used to agree with them a long time ago. The issue is ultimately they use their distaste of the frame to write off any points that counter their claims about the performance of the frame. 

 

That ultimately they don't care about arguments against them. Gears wants a different frame to match the headcannon of the frame they thought Revnant would/should be. And it's because this is so clear that no one wants to hear what they have to say. Why we're all tired of hearing Gears talk about Revnant. 

 

It would be like if I tried to change vauban into a completely different warframe purely because what I think an engineer frame isn't what DE thinks is an enginer frame. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

13 hours ago, (XBOX)Knight Raime said:

The problem with your claim is that it's pretty easily possible for anyone to stroll through Gear's post history to see how he dismisses people's counter arguments and how his entire crusade is purely based on a subjective take on the frame. 

 

They wanted one thing. We got another thing. Arguments made by them are attempts to give validity to what they are asking for. 

So the debate isn't based on logics or facts or w.e you're attempting to say. 

 

No one is saying that Gears has never made any valid points or criticisms against the design. I actually used to agree with them a long time ago. The issue is ultimately they use their distaste of the frame to write off any points that counter their claims about the performance of the frame. 

 

That ultimately they don't care about arguments against them. Gears wants a different frame to match the headcannon of the frame they thought Revnant would/should be. And it's because this is so clear that no one wants to hear what they have to say. Why we're all tired of hearing Gears talk about Revnant. 

 

It would be like if I tried to change vauban into a completely different warframe purely because what I think an engineer frame isn't what DE thinks is an enginer frame. 

I’ve started dismissing people because they’ve been arguing the same tired defenses for the last 2 years despite the fact that I’ve found counter arguments for all of them. But no, a frame having bad abilities that literally none of his backstory justifies the existence of is apparently just nitpicking and should be dismissed.

Also, I’ve said a million times. Want me to stop talking about Revenant, start pushing for a rework. Because the only way I’m stopping is when Revenants finally a proper Eidolon frame.

[TheGuyver]

On 2021-01-30 at 1:55 PM, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

And as we’ve established his issues go much deeper than that. You’re denial of them doesn’t make them go away.

As established as him being vampire themed with an eidolon twist, that you're in complete denial of. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, TheGuyver said:

As established as him being vampire themed with an eidolon twist, that you're in complete denial of. 

Literally none of your arguments have shown any proof that that should be the case. 

Your best argument has been “He’s undead therefor he is automatically a vampire” which is nonsensical.

Literally none of his lore or backstory eludes to having any kind of vampire powers prior to being corrupted by the Eidolons. And getting vampire powers from the Eidolons makes as much sense as getting cheese dip from a soda fountain.

[TheGuyver]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Literally none of your arguments have shown any proof that that should be the case. 

Your best argument has been “He’s undead therefor he is automatically a vampire” which is nonsensical.

Literally none of his lore or backstory eludes to having any kind of vampire powers prior to being corrupted by the Eidolons. And getting vampire powers from the Eidolons makes as much sense as getting cheese dip from a soda fountain.

I'm sorry that it wasn't drilled into your head from the last 15+ page thread of people telling you that you're wrong lol

I can go quote the parts where I picked your weak argument apart. Please stop telling people that they're in denial when your post history tells us otherwise.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

29 minutes ago, TheGuyver said:

I'm sorry that it wasn't drilled into your head from the last 15+ page thread of people telling you that you're wrong lol

I can go quote the parts where I picked your weak argument apart. Please stop telling people that they're in denial when your post history tells us otherwise.

I’m still waiting for the proof that Revenant should be vampire themed. If you can’t provide any then there’s no reason for him to have it.

[PsychoGlory]

Revenant does not need a rework, he is the one of the very best tanks in the game.  Revenant is vampire themed not a vampire.  It sounds like you want a completely new warframe.  Leave Revenant alone.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

On 2021-02-02 at 3:09 AM, PsychoGlory said:

Revenant does not need a rework, he is the one of the very best tanks in the game.  Revenant is vampire themed not a vampire.  It sounds like you want a completely new warframe.  Leave Revenant alone.

Mesmer skin is not that good. 100% DR is redundant as all the other tank abilities that provide 90-95% DR can scale up to around level 400. Which is far beyond all playable content. So you’re ultimately just left with a skill with an annoying charges mechanic, an anti-synergy with Danse Macabre, and an ability that prevents the usage of mods like rage and arcanes like Grace.

Vampire themed and vampire are ultimately the same thing here. As both things are not Eidolons themed in which Revenants visual design is based on and his backstory is based around. So him having vampire abilities basically completely ignores his backstory and calls into question what was the point of making him corrupted by Eidolons if that fact wasn’t going to be taken advantage of in his ability design. It would be like if Grendel was still called the Devourer frame, still has his same visual design, but none of his abilities involved eating stuff.