Reb on Shy's stream: Many abilities are going to be BUFFED and hints for deducing selected abilities

[Jarriaga]

For those who missed Shy's interview with Reb taking place yesterday, at the 43:50 mark Reb highlights the following:

- Air Burst is Zephyr's chosen ability.

- Air Burst itself is getting reworked: Tapping does what it currently does, but a new hold cast option is being added to suck in enemies into the ability cast point. Effectively a buff by means of a secondary function.

- Reasoning behind Air Burst being selected is that:

1) Tail Wind is her signature ability. "Signature" doesn't necessarily mean the most powerful or useful ability outside ults, but rather the most iconic ability. So this one is discarded by default (Alongside her ult for being an ult). 

2) Turbulence is so good that, if shared, it will effectively kill Zephyr by virtue of having little else going on exclusively in her favor.

3) Thus only Air Burst remained.

Those were DK's words on stream, but Reb agreed and said that's 100% how you can deduce which abilities are going to be shared.

Other interesting things Reb revealed:

- The chrysalis system is being overseen and designed by Pablo.

- Abilities that come from unique frame designs such as Equinox, Grendel and Limbo are being reworked for the system.

So you can expect small buffs to many of the core abilities across many frames, effectively buffs to many of them. This is a rather welcome decision because selected abilities are going to be competing against themselves and against Helminth-exclusive abilities, and some abilities like Slash Dash need all the help they can get. So you may see the core frames doing things they couldn't do before. 

[Voltage]

This slippery slope just got bathed in Vaseline.

[(PSN)Double991]

There are quite a few augments that should have just been a part of the ability so i'm sure we'll see some of that.

[Jarriaga]

9 minutes ago, Voltage said:

This slippery slope just got bathed in Vaseline.

Because of the buffs or because of Pablo?

[Jarriaga]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Double991 said:

There are quite a few augments that should have just been a part of the ability so i'm sure we'll see some of that.

Thus the augments themselves would be reworked so they can do something different.

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

I'm sad to hear that this means Miasma won't be Saryn's chosen ability since it's an Ult... I really wanted to see players faces when they realized that the "she just spams 4" myth was so blatantly false on anything but low level mobs.

 

What does that mean for Rhino though? Charge is his signature skill (he's rhino), stomp is his Ult, but both roar and iron skin are way too game breaking to put on anyone else. Personally if have shared his charge but that move is kinda the whole reason for his name...

Although still not really sure how Volt's Shock isn't his signiture skill >.>

[Tiltskillet]

Neat.  Would be cool if Pull got buffed.  As well as some other likely but unconfirmed abilities like Rip Line.

[Talinthis]

looking forward to that dev workshop. limbo grendel and equinox and perhaps others just dont work. curious as to what exactly they will do.

[Ikyr0]

21 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

- The chrysalis system is being overseen and designed by Pablo.

🤘

[schilds]

7 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Although still not really sure how Volt's Shock isn't his signiture skill >.>

I think most people see Volt as a (or before Gauss, even the) speed frame. Also, electricity is coverd by his ult moreso than his 1.

 

This is why "signature" is a little ambiguous. Different people will look at a frame and see different things.

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

He's literally called "Volt"... and all his abilities are electricity based...

Gauss I'd agree, since he's named after scientist often related to magnetic acceleration, and is racecar themed...

[Voltage]

9 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Because of the buffs or because of Pablo?

This whole system is a balance nightmare. DE is going to release their list, and there will be a few good combinations with the rest being basically useless. Sure, the game is already easy, but this doubles the size of your squad to 8 potential Warframes. This also really hurts the feeling of figuring out the right Warframe for the job. This cements existing roles, and creates an even larger gap.

Why even bother with using Shock Trooper on Volt when your buddy can give it to you as Chroma and you can take something else instead?

This whole system is bad and a mistake. I'm going to use it, I'm going to be overpowered, but this makes me question, why the hell does DE even touch Riven Dispositions or Limbo in Scarlet Spear if they have no problem with you stacking Chroma (base damage) to a multiplicative elemental damage mod on the same Warframe? It's absolutely nonsense.

[Hypernaut1]

So you mean abilities might actually get looked at and be buffed? That can't be true, I was hoping to call it a "bandaid system" and an excuse for DE to NEVER to rework frames ever!

Oh well, I'm sure there's something negative I can find in all of this... Oh yeah "DE can't design a game without power creep!"

[(PSN)thowed]

They need to just basically say the weakest of the four powers and avoid all this wordage.  Case in point is the rhino example above.  Suddenly charge won't be a signature ability because the other powers are too good.

[Jarriaga]

12 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

I'm sad to hear that this means Miasma won't be Saryn's chosen ability since it's an Ult... I really wanted to see players faces when they realized that the "she just spams 4" myth was so blatantly false on anything but low level mobs.

 

What does that mean for Rhino though? Charge is his signature skill (he's rhino), stomp is his Ult, but both roar and iron skin are way too game breaking to put on anyone else. Personally if have shared his charge but that move is kinda the whole reason for his name...

Although still not really sure how Volt's Shock isn't his signiture skill >.>

Saryn's ability is confirmed to be Molt as per Pablo's Twitter. He also confirmed that Fire Walker is Nezha's chosen ability.

As for Rhino, I think (And many would agree) that his signature ability is actually Iron Skin. It's definitively more iconic than Rhino Charge (Naming aside).

So by following the same logic, Roar is too good to be shared. This leaves Rhino Charge as the potential selection.

[schilds]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

He's literally called "Volt"... and all his abilities are electricity based...

If all his abilities are electricity based, then the electricity damage of his 1 isn't a point of differentiation that makes it signature.

[Perisie]

Just now, Jarriaga said:

Saryn's ability is confirmed to be Molt as per Pablo's Twitter. He also confirmed that Fire Walker is Nezha's chosen ability.

As for Rhino, I think (And many would agree) that his signature ability is actually Iron Skin. It's definitively more iconic than Rhino Charge naming aside.

So by following the same logic, Roar is too good to be shared. This leaves Rhino Charge as the potential selection.

Yup, was about to post this myself. Iron Skin is definitely Rhino's signature ability. It's what everyone knows him for more than anything else.

[Voltage]

Just now, Jarriaga said:

So by following the same logic, Roar is too good to be shared. This leaves Rhino Charge as the potential selection.

Good luck with that logic on something like Mirage. Her 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ability all contribute to DPS in a very relevant factor. 

[OniDax]

13 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

I'm sad to hear that this means Miasma won't be Saryn's chosen ability since it's an Ult... I really wanted to see players faces when they realized that the "she just spams 4" myth was so blatantly false on anything but low level mobs.

 

What does that mean for Rhino though? Charge is his signature skill (he's rhino), stomp is his Ult, but both roar and iron skin are way too game breaking to put on anyone else. Personally if have shared his charge but that move is kinda the whole reason for his name...

Although still not really sure how Volt's Shock isn't his signiture skill >.>

No. Iron Skin is Rhino's signature ability, and Stomp is his Ult. Charge is the most likely ability to be shared.

[Felsagger]

9 minutes ago, Voltage said:

This whole system is a balance nightmare. DE is going to release their list, and there will be a few good combinations with the rest being basically useless. Sure, the game is already easy, but this doubles the size of your squad to 8 potential Warframes. This also really hurts the feeling of figuring out the right Warframe for the job. This cements existing roles, and creates an even larger gap.

Why even bother with using Shock Trooper on Volt when your buddy can give it to you as Chroma and you can take something else instead?

This whole system is bad and a mistake. I'm going to use it, I'm going to be overpowered, but this makes me question, why the hell does DE even touch Riven Dispositions or Limbo in Scarlet Spear if they have no problem with you stacking Chroma (base damage) to a multiplicative elemental damage mod on the same Warframe? It's absolutely nonsense.

Pretty much. 

 

This guy always gets the point. 

 

[Jarriaga]

52 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Good luck with that logic on something like Mirage. Her 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ability all contribute to DPS in a very relevant factor. 

Yes, Mirage is actually one of the frames I'm currently building because just like Protea, Vauban, Equinox, and Wukong, any ability that she shares will be very valuable.

But I don't see how that logic breaks apart just because all of her abilities are DPS because not all of them are signature/iconic and not all of them are as broken to the same degree.

I think for Mirage, her ability will be Eclipse because:

- Hall of Mirrors is her signature/iconic, therefore excluded by default.

- Eclipse is a buff you can't rely on or control at will. The UI shows the max potential value but not the actual buff value as it is affected by light levels. Even at peak brightness in Simulacrum you don't get the same buff value as what the UI shows. Same goes for darkness defensive buff. Additionally, doing something as simple as taking a step forward can change the buff type. This is nowhere near as game-breaking as Sleight of Hand, thus more viable for sharing.

[schilds]

I'd say Mirage's 1 is more signature than her other abilities (even the ult, except maybe way back when u would lock down a whole map with it :-P). Then it's a question of which of her 2 or 3 you think is too good. Explosive Legerdermain has a lot of potential with the right frames (e.g. Saryn). Her 3 might be a straight buff, but probably isn't game breaking, especially since the player isn't in control of which buff they get.

 

[edit] Beaten to it by Jarriaga :-).

[Jarriaga]

20 minutes ago, schilds said:

I think most people see Volt as a (or before Gauss, even the) speed frame. Also, electricity is coverd by his ult moreso than his 1.

 

This is why "signature" is a little ambiguous. Different people will look at a frame and see different things.

Well, since we know that his chosen ability is Shock, it means that Shock is not signature. This leaves Speed and Electric Shield.

And out of those two I'd say Speed is his signature ability, the most iconic one out of the two. Just look at the reworked new game experience CGI trailer; Speed is presented as his main feature.

[Lutesque]

5 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Well, since we know that his chosen ability is Shock, it means that Shock is not signature. This leaves Speed and Electric Shield.

And out of those two I'd say Speed is his signature ability, the most iconic one out of the two. Just look at the reworked new game experience CGI trailer; Speed is presented as his main feature.

Yeah... but we already know thats irrelevant... "Signature Ability" in this case is literally anything that isnt the worst Ability. Thats the real reason why you get Shock and not Speed/Energy Shield....

For any Warframes that actually have all good Abilities... expect those to get Gimped when they Transfer....

We should be getting more information about the Feature in 9 Days...

[Jarriaga]

13 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Yeah... but we already know thats irrelevant... "Signature Ability" in this case is literally anything that isnt the worst Ability. Thats the real reason why you get Shock and not Speed/Energy Shield....

I don't think so. Otherwise Nezha would have given Blazing Chakram instead of Fire Walker. BC is significantly worse than FW on its own without the synergies, which are not part of the discussion because you won't have access to the other abilities to benefit from the synergies. But BC however is visually tied to his Warding Halo, which is Nezha's actual signature. Thus it can be argued to be a proxy of WH and discarded, leaving a better ability (FW) as the chosen ability.

The're's also the case of Khora. I am 100% certain that Venari won't be her shared ability because it's her signature ability despite Venari being the worst ability in her entire kit.

You can argue that the chosen ability is the worst available ability, sure, but that follows that the signature ability is discarded by default regardless of it being a good or bad ability.

13 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

For any Warframes that actually have all good Abilities... expect those to get Gimped when they Transfer....

That's the actual opposite of what Reb said. They are aware that many of them need help.

13 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

We should be getting more information about the Feature in 9 Days...

Indeed.