Reb on Shy's stream: Many abilities are going to be BUFFED and hints for deducing selected abilities

[Proscriptor]

@schilds

if we disregard all ults - saryn 1 is her signature ability

not all abilities are signature. saryn 3 certainly isn't. it's not what she's known for and synonymous with. 

saryn 2 can't be signature just by virtue of being a very generic regen ability, and that's not the point of saryn. 

for most frames this is pretty clear

we talked about this on discord extensively and people tend to agree on what are and aren't the signature abilities; look here - /topic/1210095-discussion-and-feedback-on-the-helminth-chrysalis-the-most-shocking-feature-ever-revealed/?do=findComment&comment=11734508

 

[schilds]

Take Khora. Khora was originally sold/understood as a whip frame. Three of her abilities can be related to tying things up. She was released with Venari as a distinguishing feature and is now more hunter themed. If we're just going by the "tying things up" theme then Venari is the odd ability out. On the other hand, as a hunter, having a hunting companion is reasonable and the other abilities still fit ok as the weapons/traps/tools that a hunter might use. So we have some people who don't see Venari as really representing her theme, while others see Venari as a unique/distinct ability that distinguishes Khora from other frames.

While maybe for each frame we can find a plurality of people who see that frame the same way, not everyone will see the same thing. Then "signature" really just means "most popular interpretation" 😛.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

4 hours ago, Voltage said:

This slippery slope just got bathed in Vaseline.

Good.

[ligonare]

I will give my feedback after I properly played with this system.

In the meantime, i implore the devs at DE not to ignore updating the usability of some warframe powers. Some either lack proper viability, synergy or both.

I'm looking at you, Well of Life, Ballistic Battery, Spectral Scream, etc. 

[DrivaMain]

4 hours ago, Voltage said:

This whole system is a balance nightmare. DE is going to release their list, and there will be a few good combinations with the rest being basically useless. Sure, the game is already easy, but this doubles the size of your squad to 8 potential Warframes. This also really hurts the feeling of figuring out the right Warframe for the job. This cements existing roles, and creates an even larger gap.

Why even bother with using Shock Trooper on Volt when your buddy can give it to you as Chroma and you can take something else instead?

This whole system is bad and a mistake. I'm going to use it, I'm going to be overpowered, but this makes me question, why the hell does DE even touch Riven Dispositions or Limbo in Scarlet Spear if they have no problem with you stacking Chroma (base damage) to a multiplicative elemental damage mod on the same Warframe? It's absolutely nonsense.

Let's be real here. The only thing that can bait players especially Veterans to play new content is power creep. The majority will say "if this doesn't offer something that performs the same or better than what I already have I won't even bother". They spend a lot of time developing HoD they sure as heck want to use anything to convince every players to experience it.

[dEjAvU5566]

DE can always nerf skill once too many ppl using them, just like, you  know, riven disposition?

And they already said some skills given will be modified because they are related to original frame theme. So it is not surprise they will also “fix” others if too op on some skill combinations.

In the end, just enjoy it while you can after its release, and after the inevitable nerf, remember to come back ranting on forum how nerfing skill punish the players for wasting effort on it.

[IceColdHawk]

3 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Let's be real here. The only thing that can bait players especially Veterans to play new content is power creep. The majority will say "if this doesn't offer something that performs the same or better than what I already have I won't even bother". They spend a lot of time developing HoD they sure as heck want to use anything to convince every players to experience it.

This tbh. It's either power creep or fodder. I'm interested to try out so many different combinations out so I for once in a long time, am actually highly awaiting the upcoming content. Warframe has always been a game of power creep anyway since it exists. 

[Felsagger]

In August 25 we will see how the system works and what it proposes in greater detail. Primaries and secondaries are placed below War Frame abilities making many of these weapons useless even with Rivens. What bothers many players is the idea that DE is having right now. 

Game doesn't need more complexity transferring abilities or giving more options than what we already have. People are asking for content, good content like the Necramech. The game asks for better boss fights, better mission structure and more diversity in the enemy other than being walking sponge bobs with better shells and higher damage rate. 

The sane slippery slope will not fix the game or attend people demands. Kit guns started a great concept but many got downgraded like the catchmoon. That fun ran its course. Rivens or RNG weapons went towards another area taking down good weapons that where enjoyed by many. 

DE seems to be reflecting with Deimos but Fortuna and PoE are left for dead. These open world tiles are temporary and incidental. Once the player goes throughout the content they will never set foot on them unless DE updates the graphics, the enemies, the activities and the interactivity of these paces. 

Do you think that "Little Shop of Horror" plant will make this game better when many players really despise how that Orbiter room looks like. On the contrary, this new system could throw away many Warframe roles and functionalities to the floor. Hybrid Warframes may bring more confusion other than a resolution to the problem in my opinion. 

Can you imagine Giving to Orisa the ability of Reaper and have the healing power of Mercy. If that is the case, and I know is not, then why have Orisa, Reaper and Mercy in the first place. Making their roles fuzzy and blurry doesn't make the game more diverse. On the contrary some War Frames will end up being shelved completely. 

Anyone remember when Oberon became irrelevant? No one cared about him until many users pointed out how that frame was thrown into the forgotten land. DE is using Excel tables to assign downgrades and upgrades. With this system DE will have double the amount of work when certain 'creatures' becomes outliers in their game trivializing the content. 

 

 

[nslay]

8 hours ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

He's literally called "Volt"... and all his abilities are electricity based...

Gauss I'd agree, since he's named after scientist often related to magnetic acceleration, and is racecar themed...

Gauss is, first and foremost, known as one of the greatest mathematicians in all of history. I'm sure his mathematical discoveries were useful for electricity and magnetism, but he is primarily known for mathematics! So no, I never once understood the relation between the theme and name of the frame Gauss... not even slightly.

[SneakyErvin]

8 hours ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

I'm sad to hear that this means Miasma won't be Saryn's chosen ability since it's an Ult... I really wanted to see players faces when they realized that the "she just spams 4" myth was so blatantly false on anything but low level mobs.

 

What does that mean for Rhino though? Charge is his signature skill (he's rhino), stomp is his Ult, but both roar and iron skin are way too game breaking to put on anyone else. Personally if have shared his charge but that move is kinda the whole reason for his name...

Although still not really sure how Volt's Shock isn't his signiture skill >.>

Iron Skin would be his signature I think, just because he's called Rhino doesnt mean he is a rhino. Iron Skin is a centerpiece of his lore entry iirc.

[Jarriaga]

5 hours ago, schilds said:

While others see Venari as a unique/distinct ability that distinguishes Khora from other frames.

I'm on that camp. I mean, look at Khora's in-game diorama. At a glance, you'd have a hard time selling the idea that Whipclaw is her signature ability instead of Venari.

[ikkabotz]

deleted

[VentiGlondi]

9 hours ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

I really wanted to see players faces when they realized that the "she just spams 4" myth was so blatantly false on anything but low level mobs.

Saryn doesn't need to spam anything since spores spam themselves automatically

[Kaotyke]

BUtt TahT CaNt bE!11!@

ThIS sYstEM WaS MAde sO ThEy WonT HAVe tO MaKE ReWorrkKs or BuFFs EVAH AG@in!

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

"Trust the process." 

We're not playing games in the 90s and early 2000s anymore. 

Look at the state of the world and realize no one cares about "balance". 

As much as I dislike the "excuse", this game seems to be centered more around "freedom" and "fun" more than "balance". An old example of "balance" would be healers being incredibly weak physically or defense-wise because they could AOE heal a group, encouraging you to "protect" them from harm. Or a "paladin" or "tank" not being able to do a lot of damage, because their "job" was to "take a lot of damage" for the group via distraction or "provoking" the enemies to him.

I decided to stick with this game because it was obvious as an outsider and newer player that this game clearly doesn't care about "balance" compared to what I've been used to "balance" being.

If this game cared about "balance", they would not have added half the mods they have in the game, and they would not have added half the frames, or weapons, or base stats of weapons. 

It's a normal system: things will get released, they will see what's being used, and they will adjust accordingly. 

I will be having fun, and I wont be complaining at all in any form or fashion if a build I use is nerfed. 

I was kinda bummed at the Magus Lockdown nerf because I used that to retrieve lures in void mode. I had my fun and moved on without saying a word. 

These forums will be a great source of laughter for me watching this update release and the subsequent aftermath. Cheers.

[SneakyErvin]

49 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

BUtt TahT CaNt bE!11!@

ThIS sYstEM WaS MAde sO ThEy WonT HAVe tO MaKE ReWorrkKs or BuFFs EVAH AG@in!

Whenever I sit down to do my daily forum browsing I come across something from you that just brightens my day and brings a smile to my face.

💘

[SweetAnubis]

51 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

BUtt TahT CaNt bE!11!@

ThIS sYstEM WaS MAde sO ThEy WonT HAVe tO MaKE ReWorrkKs or BuFFs EVAH AG@in!

i know its funny how people were trying to say that even after they sid in the stream they were still doing reworks and then later told us this system is partially being used to buff skills!

[Mover-NeRo]

So basicly trading one useless abbility for another.

Only speed Volts will be happy with extra speed from Nezhas Firewalker.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Iron Skin would be his signature I think, just because he's called Rhino doesnt mean he is a rhino. Iron Skin is a centerpiece of his lore entry iirc.

Rhino uses rhino charge makes more sense. Roar is the kind of ability, like speed that doesn't really tie into the warframes theme in any way, the warframe just makes a sound that gives a buff. I doubt they use any logic when they choose the abilities, which makes one think why they even mentioned anything about "signature" abilities.

[Jarriaga]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Yggranya said:

I doubt they use any logic when they choose the abilities, which makes one think why they even mentioned anything about "signature" abilities.

I don't agree. The Zephyr ability selection process indicates that DE have a certain "identity" in mind when think of a WF. 

[(PSN)lumen2ne1]

7 hours ago, schilds said:

So we have some people who don't see Venari as really representing her theme, while others see Venari as a unique/distinct ability that distinguishes Khora from other frames.

Venari is not an active ability, it's her passive. She's the dominatrix cat lady. Her 3rd ability are commands for her passive. I highly doubt they'll give a passive ability or rework her 3 to do so much and give every warframe double kavats. And her whipclaw is way too strong to be shared, so it's probably gonna be her snare, which is still really strong.

[schilds]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)lumen2ne1 said:

Venari is not an active ability, it's her passive. She's the dominatrix cat lady. Her 3rd ability are commands for her passive. I highly doubt they'll give a passive ability or rework her 3 to do so much and give every warframe double kavats. And her whipclaw is way too strong to be shared, so it's probably gonna be her snare, which is still really strong.

Originally Venari was summoned by using 3.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

7 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I don't agree. The Zephyr ability selection process indicates that DE have a certain "identity" in mind when think of a WF. 

Sure, accidents might happen but i doubt that is how it works for all frames. Of course, if zephyr is about controlling air currents or whatever, then none of the abilities should be chosen because they are all its signature abilities. So as i said, no logic, just rather frail excuses.

[Jarriaga]

9 minutes ago, schilds said:

Originally Venari was summoned by using 3.

And had a timer.

[(PSN)lumen2ne1]

10 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

The tricky part for Pablo is now any time he reworks a frame he now has to also consider the interactions of one out of four of that frames abilities with like 42 frames and more on the way. In a way, it just seems like this makes his job of reworking and retouching frames over time harder, and more laborious. 

The thing about this system is they don't have to focus on reworking warframes. Why rework a warframe that's barely played when you can let the playerbase "fix" this by choosing other abilities. Doesn't this ring a bell? This is literally rivens 2.0. Unpopular warframes are not gonna be played any more than they already are, instead players will choose the frames they already play, which are strong, and give them even better abilities to make them stronger, just like rivens being mostly used on demand for top tier weapons. The only difference between Helminth and rivens is monetization, and we don't have them for warframes, yet(?).

If they're gonna go through this, at this point they should just get rid of abilites and make a pool of new ones, and let players make their own warframes as modular, and warframes only having a signature ulti as exclusive per frame ability. They can pump out warframes and only work on balancing a single ability, giving players more aesthetics options and good ability kits at their own taste.