Are Devs having burn out issues right now from developing warframe?

[dota_Icarus]

After looking at the last dev stream, I'm having that kind of feeling that the Devs (esp. Scott) are definitly having some internal issues right now. 

Feels like they are overwhelmed by the amount of contents that are asked for and by things they wanted to bring out. 

So now to the feedback...

I want to suggest, that they can stop releasing new contents for now, and only focus on optimizing and connecting the existing content. I really think we got a lot of nice contents recently with great potentials. 

On the other hands, maybe we players should stop complaining days and nights and start to share some loves with the Devs. There is a difference between feedback and whining. Though sometimes the border inbetween is not very clear, since lots of players are passionate with this game. Yet it can still hurt ones feeling. 

For example, the content of Warframe is mostly the grind itself, aka the way to reward.

If our feedbacks are always about the grind being too hard, the Devs are forced to reduce the amount of grind. This feedback is fine in itself, but then some ppl started to complain about content drop since they got everything faster now. Then the Devs are forced to make new stuffs and the circle continues...

Maybe we should also chill a little bit and give DE some room to breath. Seems like they really need time now, to connect and optimize the existing content. The last thing we want to see, is Devs get burned out by his own game, right?

[DrakeWurrum]

It would be nice, but if they did that, the game would suffer for a bit. We've had a content drought before. New content draws in new players and new revenue. Optimizations and bug fixes... do not.

They need to be able to do both. If they can't, they need to expand their studio to more employees.

[(PSN)thegarada]

I am not sure what burn out issues here mean. As DE employees being over worked? I dunno. If you are talking about DE ad a company, like everyone else, if you do not work you don’t make money. If they chill they make less money.

[dota_Icarus]

With optimization i mean stuffs like content based on existing content. 

For example the new Mech or things Rebecca mentioned on stream like connection Railjack to Mech.

Let's count the foundations we have until now: 

1. Fortuna 

2. Nightwave 

3. Melee System

4. Lich System

5. Railjack

6. Squard Link

7. Steel Path

8. Deimos 

9. Mech System 

there are enough (unfinished) foundations the Devs can use to build on and expand. You can not tell these contents are not new. 

Well I agree things build on this are not as eye-catching like a huge "COMING NEXT: THE HEAT OF DEIMOS UPDATE" or "COMING NEXT: DUVIRI PARADOX". However, somethings small but fine things like "Deadlock Protokoll" are received very well. 

Also for me, a new Mech combined with some system from Railjack is as interesting as a entirly new thing. Can still remember how excited I was for Melee 2,999 which was not entirly new at all, but made the game very fresh and fun to play. 

[LuckyCharm]

The game did just fine in its early days with weapon releases every couple weeks, fairly frequent new tactical events and basic quests. Contstantly trying to push the game towards destiny level graphics and cut scenes for all the storytelling for every quest has already severely slowed the release cycle. Stopping new releases is the last thing they need to do. If anything more releases, just smaller ones help a lot more than one single huge one every year

[Loza03]

Just now, LuckyCharm said:

The game did just fine in its early days with weapon releases every couple weeks, fairly frequent new tactical events and basic quests. Contstantly trying to push the game towards destiny level graphics and cut scenes for all the storytelling for every quest has already severely slowed the release cycle. Stopping new releases is the last thing they need to do. If anything more releases, just smaller ones help a lot more than one single huge one every year

Whilst this is true on paper, you have to remember that big-budget stuff is what brings in the most customers. New Content at best maintains older players as a side-effect, new players are what it really brings in.  Players aren't going to be brought in by 'released a new weapon', they're brought in by 'NEW OPEN WORLD' even if the 'new weapon' or refinements to existing content are ultimately what's better.

 

An ideal scenario would be trying to convince DE to make new content that builds on existing content, so that stuff can get fixed and adjusted whilst still having those big selling point updates.

[Miyabi-sama]

43 минуты назад, dota_Icarus сказал:

1. Fortuna 

2. Nightwave 

3. Melee System

4. Lich System

5. Railjack

6. Squard Link

7. Steel Path

8. Deimos 

9. Mech System 

10. Archwing

11. Focus

[Tesseract7777]

2 hours ago, dota_Icarus said:

After looking at the last dev stream, I'm having that kind of feeling that the Devs (esp. Scott) are definitly having some internal issues right now. 

Feels like they are overwhelmed by the amount of contents that are asked for and by things they wanted to bring out. 

So now to the feedback...

I want to suggest, that they can stop releasing new contents for now, and only focus on optimizing and connecting the existing content. I really think we got a lot of nice contents recently with great potentials. 

On the other hands, maybe we players should stop complaining days and nights and start to share some loves with the Devs. There is a difference between feedback and whining. Though sometimes the border inbetween is not very clear, since lots of players are passionate with this game. Yet it can still hurt ones feeling. 

For example, the content of Warframe is mostly the grind itself, aka the way to reward.

If our feedbacks are always about the grind being too hard, the Devs are forced to reduce the amount of grind. This feedback is fine in itself, but then some ppl started to complain about content drop since they got everything faster now. Then the Devs are forced to make new stuffs and the circle continues...

Maybe we should also chill a little bit and give DE some room to breath. Seems like they really need time now, to connect and optimize the existing content. The last thing we want to see, is Devs get burned out by his own game, right?

Have them not keep releasing new content is, unfortunately, not the most realistic idea. Proposed a lot, but you would have too many people complaining about a content drought. 

That said, I agree with the other bolded part entirely. I think people were a bit too harsh about The Heart of Deimos, myself included, and they are not hearing enough positive feedback lately. I recently came back after a long break, and I remember waiting for updates being more like a launch party, and people didn't make such a molehill over such small things and get as up in arms. Don't get me wrong, the community still raged sometimes, but updates used to feel more like a big party we were sharing with the devs. 

I'm not sure what happened to that. I know some players are going to go "wah it's the devs fault'", but as the saying goes, it takes two. I think many players should tone down what I would charitably call an overly confrontational tone they strike with the devs on a regular basis, as if the people who design one of their favorite games are actual enemies to be hated and fought, instead of potential collaborators with similar goals.                          

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

You know. I’m genuinely curious by just how much of an impact the reduction of new content release in favor of improvements to current content would have on the player numbers. If the improvements make the old stuff worth going back to multiple times then players have a reason to keep playing.

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You know. I’m genuinely curious by just how much of an impact the reduction of new content release in favor of improvements to current content would have on the player numbers. If the improvements make the old stuff worth going back to multiple times then players have a reason to keep playing.

Updating old content so it feels like new content could work to an extent, but people are still only going to consider it all that replayable if there are new rewards to earn. Say they go back and rework the OG syndicates and fix them up nice and proper, make the whole system more robust. If it's still the same rewards, those who got all of them long ago still don't care. So at the very least, need a serious set of new mods/cosmetics and gear in any "revisit style update of old content" for that to potentially work, which still seems like a lot of dev time and could end up creating new systems to manage.                           

[GreyDeath789]

On 2020-09-20 at 4:49 PM, dota_Icarus said:

I want to suggest, that they can stop releasing new contents for now, and only focus on optimizing and connecting the existing content. I really think we got a lot of nice contents recently with great potentials. 

 Some people argue for 'fixing' current content and it makes sense...yet others argue that only new content will drive new players to start playing Warframe. Why new content? Well those that argue the new content point are convinced the only way to make Warframe (or any game) viable is by gaining 'new' players. It seems the 'new content' = 'new players' camp thinks there is an infinite number of new players that can join a game...

This point has been debated and discussed in the past about "churn" and "retention", etc. but fixing the content that is in a game has merit as long as that content has value to be played.

For example, I haven't really event started the grind in Heart of Deimos update since I find little value in the entire concept of that update with the tokens. It seems, at best, as a side quest to power up my builds so I can go play other areas that...yet there isn't really any place I want or need to go play right now.

I am still slowly working through Steel Path since it is just something to do...maybe two nodes then I am off to a game I actually enjoy more.

I don't have Protea yet...because the island of misfit content isn't fun and I haven't found a compelling reason to have Protea except to be a completionist. I will probably simply buy the frame and weapons with plat if/when I decide I need them.

So, DE spending tons of times 'fixing' current content will still lead me to the same place...no strong reason to play Warframe more than the amount of time currently played.

New content MAY increase my play time...but for now current and new content doesn't do it for me. I also don't bother suggesting this game to friends because of the 'bad content drops' (Railjack, Lichs, Scarlet Spear) and the overall staleness of the game.

After the uproar of those 'bad content drops' DE claimed to hear and would address it...yet these latest content drops seem to be falling into the same old pattern of bug fixes and 'nerfs'... As least the movie during TennoCon was more of what was released rather than a movie.

But in the end...the new content hasn't really be that inspiring for me...maybe it isn't DE dev burn out but the players that are burned out with the rinse and repeat game mechanics, buggy content, misleading claims by DE, etc. and it is time for the players to move on to a different game.

On 2020-09-20 at 4:49 PM, dota_Icarus said:

On the other hands, maybe we players should stop complaining days and nights and start to share some loves with the Devs. There is a difference between feedback and whining. Though sometimes the border inbetween is not very clear, since lots of players are passionate with this game. Yet it can still hurt ones feeling. 

Hehe this again. While not a claim to 'white knight' for DE...this theory that players are simply whining is always fun to read.

The amount of 'whining' on the forums is very low... DE's policy of appropriate feedback on the forums. Comments that 'attack' individuals isn't feedback nor is it whining...and should not be tolerated. Comments about the content of a product produced should be viewed as feedback about the product. It is not a personal attack on the individual(s) that produced the product.

When did it become necessary to tell a video game developer everything they do is great and give out player community sponsored participation trophies?

Example 1 (attacking the person not the product):

Forum poster: Whomever developed the insane nodes to get Grendel parts should be fired. These nodes are insanely difficult to complete solo and it is simply meant to make players spend plat to get the frame!

ANALYSIS: Calling for someone to be fired is unfair and 'attacks' the person. The feedback of the node difficulty is fair...but the claim it is designed to spend plat is bad...even if it isn't targeted at an individual.

Example 2 (feedback):

Forum poster: The design of the nodes to get Grendel parts is insane. It is probably the stupidest design concept so far in Warframe. Doing them solo is nearly impossible and even with a full squad it is at best a 50/50 chance of success. DE stop making such insanely poor game design decisions!

ANALYSIS: While not a glowingly positive feedback comment this provides concerns about the concept implemented to gain a frame. If game developers find this type of comment hurtful then the game developers have ownership issues. The comment is about the game and content provided.

 

[Traumtulpe]

3 hours ago, dota_Icarus said:

I want to suggest, that they can stop releasing new contents for now [...] On the other hands, maybe we players should stop complaining

And here I though developing this game was their job. If you are fed up with your job, you quit - you don't ask your customers to just put up with you not living up to expectations.

Taking things for granted, feeling entitled to things you got used to, believing you know better than your customers - not advisable qualities. Nor uncommon ones. That being said, I believe people read too much into the stream. Let actions speak, not a stream performance that went awry.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

29 minutes ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

You got it wrong, Scott left that "impression" on us because Rebecca and Steve talked about stuff that shouldn't have been talked about.. some questions shouldn't have been asked and there was stuff we really weren't supposed to see.. because EVERYTIME we hear certain questions or see stuff you can see that Scott is holding back to not abort the stream 😂 (ignoring his head shaking)

What shouldn’t have been talked about? The new software that enhanced graphics, audio, and data storage? The Helminth statistics that held far more useful info than “This is what should be nerfed”?

 

[dota_Icarus]

42分钟前 , Traumtulpe 说:

Taking things for granted, feeling entitled to things you got used to, believing you know better than your customers - not advisable qualities.

You need to differ "feedback" and "complain"... 

As I mentioned in my example, is it fine if some player´s feedback is the grind is too hard. But it is not very reasonable if the same players complain about content drought after the grind for new things are nerfed.

Also lots of ppl are always asking for brand new content, despite we already have a huge unfinished foundation with unused potential. That is what i mainly want to adress on our players´ side

[dota_Icarus]

1小时前 , (XB1)TyeGoo 说:

You got it wrong, Scott left that "impression" on us because Rebecca and Steve talked about stuff that shouldn't have been talked about.. some questions shouldn't have been asked and there was stuff we really weren't supposed to see.. because EVERYTIME we hear certain questions or see stuff you can see that Scott is holding back to not abort the stream 😂 (ignoring his head shaking)

Wait... what are these stuffs they shouldn´t have talked about? Scott was... like very very annoyed and stressed in my eyes tbh.

[dota_Icarus]

2小时前 , Miyabi-sama 说:

10. Archwing

11. Focus

I auto-counted Archwing into Railjack, and Focus (for me personally) is a very polished system already.

[Traumtulpe]

10 minutes ago, dota_Icarus said:

fine if some player´s feedback is the grind is too hard. But it is not very reasonable if the same players complain about content drought after the grind for new things are nerfed.

You appear to believe that content is another word for grind. It is in fact not. Content and grind are 2 entirely separate things. It is possible to have content without grind, and sadly the opposite is just as possible.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

5 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

It would be nice, but if they did that, the game would suffer for a bit. We've had a content drought before. New content draws in new players and new revenue. Optimizations and bug fixes... do not.

They need to be able to do both. If they can't, they need to expand their studio to more employees.

we get 3-5 weapons every 6 months....

with the work on story based open world content we went from 3-6 weapons a month....

we are barely given anything to grind for, and when we do they set it to 0.2% chance to even get for some of it

we dont want new content, we just want to be rewarded for doing the content we have that a has no reward

new syndicate rewards now cost plat as of the last update

[VoidArkhangel]

What some ppl don't understand is that the game must be fun, must feel complete and most of all, it should be replayable at some point. 

DE seems to think that the grind is the way players replay and only new content will keep Warframe alive (Im not saying its dying) wich are a very basic point of view, I cannot speak for everyone but I replay when I find it interesting at least but if I found it very fun to replay so I will do it every time I can.

What Im trying to tell you is indeed we have a lot of content islands and are separated by an ocean, even more, they feel incomplete, every time DE releases a new update it looks more like a beta for me and awnsering this right now, no, new content will not keep the game alive at all, what will keep the game alive is the replayability and guess what, Warframe doesn't have. In conclusion DE needs to start to fix and connect the old content before they add new massive things.

For those who ask why, here's why:

Spoiler

Imagine that you are a new player, you don't have any prime, any plat, any credits, any event thing, any material you got nothing but three weapons and a frame and a syandana cuz who the hell will keep a random coin when you can look good.

You jump into the earth, you clear the earth so you encounter with Cetus everything goes fine but oh, suddenly you realize you need orokin cells and argon so you clear your way towards ceres and fobos you get what you need but damn, you need a lot of polymers so you start to farm on the sea lab; got it so you need rubedo adn you start to ask yourself, why would I came back to earth? a few days has past and you completed cetus then you realize the resources you got serves little and there are two open worlds more so what now? you don't care for the story cuz you didn't completed the second dream, you don't care about the units cuz they are the same as in every other game that have levels to define how "strong" someone is, you see videos on yt speaking of how broken things are, you see that the good looking weapons and warframes are purchasable with real money and you don't care about trading cuz you need to wait for something special to happen for a chance to get something that will grant plat.

So you say, "Their mother will do all of this crap" and you uninstall.

So yeah, the grind wouldn't be a problem if the player would enjoy itself doing it, I remember going to ceres laughting farming cells and testing weapons like the zarr with massive impact so whoever I shoot will be sent flying so hard that will travel through five dimensions and kill the zombot in PvZ, so I enjoyed myself doing that but on the opposite, whenever I hunt a lich, I want to face it in a epic 1v1 scenario jumping on the top of a exploding fleet of grineer galleons, everybody shooting sentients and corpus, the lich and I killing some random ships trying to catch us for the last hit while everything goes to sh*t cuz we are being absorbed by a black hole, this is the final moment cuz I reached this far to face my nemesis, my opposite, my brother of blood that went through the darkest of dark or the lightest of light path, this is the end of an era not for me or them but for the entire galaxy, the clash of two unstoppable forces because that is what we are.

But lol I can't, I have to think all of that because DE didn't made the system fun or replayable once you have every kuva weapon or at least the important ones.

Im not against new content but you don't build a building adding random stuff here and there, you build it by adding pieces on the base but that base needs to be stable, needs to be complete wich isn't the case of Warframe and DE doesn't want to see it.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

36 minutes ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

 

Just rewatch the stream and look at scott when he opens his eyes and shakes his head.. I think he didn't like how .. idk.. Reb approached certain topics I guess.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

I think another issue is this whole from home stuff.. streams already were chaotic and now there's.. basically no deep talk between them which we as a Viewer we can see when they talk about showing something and then constantly ask if it's the right thing and "are we supposed to show this" etc.

There was nothing inherently wrong with the topics. Just how they responded to them. Steve showed far more interest in the graphics and audio side of things than the usage statistics and what can be gleaned from them. And Scott’s absolute failure to have even a half decent response to the question of “can the Helminth system stats be used to see what should be improved. When the community at large is getting tired of seeing constantly, mind boggling nerfs.

There is clear and obvious neglect of the gameplay side of things.

[dota_Icarus]

3小时前 , Traumtulpe 说:

You appear to believe that content is another word for grind. It is in fact not. Content and grind are 2 entirely separate things. It is possible to have content without grind, and sadly the opposite is just as possible.

Agree partially, but you can not deny the grind part is playing a huge role in a looter-shooter game. The reward and the way to the reward are both essential and therefore "content" the Devs provided.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

20 minutes ago, dota_Icarus said:

Agree partially, but you can not deny the grind part is playing a huge role in a looter-shooter game. The reward and the way to the reward are both essential and therefore "content" the Devs provided.

the problem is they have been adding grind without rewards

[Traumtulpe]

36 minutes ago, dota_Icarus said:

Agree partially, but you can not deny the grind part is playing a huge role in a looter-shooter game.

Just like grinding levels is playing a huge part in RPGs. Doesn't mean you can't make an RPG without grind either.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

7 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

I am not sure what burn out issues here mean. As DE employees being over worked? I dunno. If you are talking about DE ad a company, like everyone else, if you do not work you don’t make money. If they chill they make less money.

Burn out meaning they have worked on this game for a lot of years, and some of them have become resentful of their playerbase, or just plain sick of game design in general.

[kevoisvevo]

Anyone wanna play risk of rain 2?