Wasnt the goal a LESS grindy game?

[(PSN)Deathscythex01]

Wasnt the ultimate goal for DE to make Warframe LESS grindy not MORE grindy? The heart of deimos is just another grind wall that the game really didnt need. A recycled grind wall at that. At this point im convinced that DE doesnt even play their own game because they either just dont care or are just burnt out either way constantly adding grind to a game that you want players to play ultimately drives them away. The few youtubers that still play have even said its just not fun anymore and is too much grind especially for newer players. Those same youtubers have started playing other games largely because YOU DE dont listen to your community as a whole.  And instead have created a giant grindfest that isnt fun. 

Another thing that adds even more grind are the murmurs for kuva weapons and the parazon mods. You really put charges on a damn mod? Do you NOT see that you have in-fact made this game not fun and more of a full time job? Honestly what the hell were you at DE thinking by putting charges/use count on mods? Wouldnt the smarter thing to do is once you have all kuva weapons the mods become defiled? Since it takes soooo damn long to get murmurs to reveal the correct mods to use on the lich. Again what were you all thinking when deciding how many larva we have to kill in order to level a murmur to reveal the correct mod? Just more and more unnecessary grind that puts players off.

I havent touched Warframe in nearly 2 years because its gotten too grind heavy and too much needless grind. I watch youtubers play it and again even they are tired of the excessive grind and overall not being able to have fun with the game anymore on top of there is no real endgame with Warframe and no real rewards worth it.

"We want to make the game less of a grind for all players while trying to deliver new and exciting ways to make the game fun and enjoyable" DE Rebecca From a dev stream a year and a half ago. Well thanks for lying and blowing hot air up the entire communities butt. 

[Sevek7]

Yeah, a year and a half ago they actually did do just that! They introduced a new game-mode that was enjoyable for the mode itself, not for its rewards. I remember playing the disruption event so many times and having a blast, even though there was nothing to "grind." Of course, anything gets boring if you play it long enough, but disruption is still my favorite. 

I'm not sure why they reverted to grind after that. Perhaps their stats showed that disruption wasn't that popular with enough of the playerbase. In any case, they clearly felt that grind was better, and they've stuck with it since then. I'm not a game developer so I don't really know the thought process, but now they do appear fully committed to grind. I'm sure there's a logical reason to it. 

[kevoisvevo]

because that's the only way this game will stay afloat. DE knows it and we know it as well. look at the pace at which alot of us grind out the new contents leaving them barren as an island with no incentive of coming back. some of which aka railjack, steel path and kuva liches are mostly dead now.

[Godmode_Ash]

Warframe is essential a MMO type of game. Comparing to other MMO, warframe isn't that grindy TBH. Look at those korean MMO like Black Desert.

The problem with WF is that there are alot of RNG involving. When players not receiving rewards for the time they spent, they feel like their effort gone wasted. But if you look at the progression as a whole, for example leveling an un-ranked warframe/weapon  comparing to like say WoW leveling from 0 to 80+. Warframe is waaaaay faster.

The RNG and repetitive gameplay is what make the game tedious. Get rid of those elements and you won't feel any grind.

[Brosef42]

The grind is the game

[Godmode_Ash]

3 minutes ago, Brosef42 said:

The grind is the game

True, no pain no gain.

However we are talking about how to improve the game by making it more enjoyable.

[Nailclipper]

14 minutes ago, Brosef42 said:

The grind is the game

I agree with this. The grind is pretty much the game for MMO(RPG)s. 

The goal is to make grinding fun and possibly without you players realizing it.

[MBaldelli]

This is 6 years old and needs to be used to remind DE and the forums about grind: 

And this:

 

[844448]

And why do they make it more grindy in the first place?

1 hour ago, (PS4)Deathscythex01 said:

The few youtubers that still play have even said its just not fun anymore and is too much grind especially for newer players.

Ah yes, the "new players" card to hide one's intention where they don't like the grind but don't want to admit it so they shift the reason to other side

Next, we have youtubers that keep complaining about "content drought", "nothing to do", bla bla bla and start throwing words about "sustainable content" and crap, but here's the question

"What is sustainable content"? And there are many possible scenario about it

- Content that is always interesting to play, but how are you going to do that?

1. Experience

Sure, the "experience" that keeps the content interesting but how you do it? And I'm sure how interesting the content is, people won't play if there's no reward behind it or you can try finding players or youtubers that keep playing something despite having no reward behind it

Not to mention any kind content is not allowed to use any kind of design other games use from bullet sponge to one hit telegraphed kill, but it has to be a satisfying experience so yeah, hordes must die with one button press but they have to be interesting encounter and they're not allowed to be able to press you or it's bad (try to design it)

2. Evergreen reward

As you can see, the reward is finite and guess what other games do to make it "evergreen", random rolled drop and stats so you keep going at it until you get the best of the best, then start chasing other drop from that same mission but here? RNG is forbidden, you have to get what you want, no randomness at all and you have to get the new reward every time you visit it

Yeah, try to make the content that even the most hardcore can't run out of things to chase, but casual or newer players can get things at the same pace at the hardcore players. I'm sure you won't find any kind of solution even if you sell your soul to whatever creature you meet

[844448]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Deathscythex01 said:

there is no real endgame with Warframe and no real rewards worth it.

ah yes, try to define this "real endgame" and "real rewards worth it" too while you're at it yeah?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

"The youtubers told me to be mad."

[BDMblue]

K let’s give the players everything really really easy. Now what do the players who have everything do?

 

Do we turn Warframe like POE and reset the game every 3 months with a twist?

what is the replacement for trying to get new things? 

 

I find RPG games with out a purpose tend to be RPGs you don’t play.  

[BahamutKaiser]

2 hours ago, Invoky said:

Warframe is essential a MMO type of game. Comparing to other MMO, warframe isn't that grindy TBH. Look at those korean MMO like Black Desert.

The problem with WF is that there are alot of RNG involving. When players not receiving rewards for the time they spent, they feel like their effort gone wasted. But if you look at the progression as a whole, for example leveling an un-ranked warframe/weapon  comparing to like say WoW leveling from 0 to 80+. Warframe is waaaaay faster.

The RNG and repetitive gameplay is what make the game tedious. Get rid of those elements and you won't feel any grind.

Black Desert ruined really involved gameplay with abuse, so I don't play it, I don't see how comparing it to something unworthy demonstrates an excuse, Warframe can join Black Desert if it's dumb enough. 

They need to condense old grind and make it more accessible. Grind isn't content. 

[Urlan]

1 minute ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Black Desert ruined really involved gameplay with abuse, so I don't play it, I don't see how comparing it to something unworthy demonstrates an excuse, Warframe can join Black Desert if it's dumb enough. 

They need to condense old grind and make it more accessible. Grind isn't content. 

Very well said. I would agree that grind isn't content; but more akin to the busy work you do to be able to muck with content afterward when done well.

[SpicyDinosaur]

2 hours ago, Invoky said:

Warframe is essential a MMO type of game. Comparing to other MMO, warframe isn't that grindy TBH. Look at those korean MMO like Black Desert.

The problem with WF is that there are alot of RNG involving. When players not receiving rewards for the time they spent, they feel like their effort gone wasted. But if you look at the progression as a whole, for example leveling an un-ranked warframe/weapon  comparing to like say WoW leveling from 0 to 80+. Warframe is waaaaay faster.

The RNG and repetitive gameplay is what make the game tedious. Get rid of those elements and you won't feel any grind.

The RNG is an essential part of MMOs, you got everything else right but missed that. I've been playing them since 1999 (a bit before but I never played UO seriously or for any lengthy amount of time.) RNG is in every aspect of the game. If anything, DE let's you pass up the RNG if you pay platinum. The fact that you can pay to skip content, but can also grind out the content if you are poor/just prefer it is unusual from my experience.

[trst]

That you think Deimos is nothing but a grind wall really shows you're just parroting opinions by click bait youtubers. Deimos is quite literally the least grindy major update yet. As well you have no actual experience with farming Liches if you think the mods are an issue; the murmurs are a problem but the mods are a non-factor.

[Fallen77]

It was never intended to be any less grindy, period.

Deal with it

[S.Dust]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Deathscythex01 said:

Another thing that adds even more grind are the murmurs for kuva weapons and the parazon mods. You really put charges on a damn mod? Do you NOT see that you have in-fact made this game not fun and more of a full time job? Honestly what the hell were you at DE thinking by putting charges/use count on mods? Wouldnt the smarter thing to do is once you have all kuva weapons the mods become defiled? Since it takes soooo damn long to get murmurs to reveal the correct mods to use on the lich. Again what were you all thinking when deciding how many larva we have to kill in order to level a murmur to reveal the correct mod? Just more and more unnecessary grind that puts players off.

You say this as if getting the mods is very hard, it's like argon you get them when you need them, they're not mods that need to be in constant use so having the player need to get more of them from time to time (which is every 3 liches which is actually a pretty good number) isn't that bad. As far as number of murmurs it's not that bad when you consider the fact that you can get lucky and skip whole phases if you continue to swap out the mods and guess right, it encourages interacting with your failures. They also said it wasn't meant to be a fast system, probably some of the more satisfying weapons in the game to get since they're earned behind time and not rng outside of getting the lich itself.

4 hours ago, (PS4)Deathscythex01 said:

Wasnt the ultimate goal for DE to make Warframe LESS grindy not MORE grindy? The heart of deimos is just another grind wall that the game really didnt need. A recycled grind wall at that. At this point im convinced that DE doesnt even play their own game because they either just dont care or are just burnt out either way constantly adding grind to a game that you want players to play ultimately drives them away. The few youtubers that still play have even said its just not fun anymore and is too much grind especially for newer players. Those same youtubers have started playing other games largely because YOU DE dont listen to your community as a whole.  And instead have created a giant grindfest that isnt fun. 

DE is very flawed and is both good and horrible at listening to what players want they could be MUCH better but when the community is super happy to let things die so is DE people don't push for improvement they push for new content often. As far as Deimos goes it really isn't that big a grind since most of the rep is gained through mothers bounties and tokens can be stock piled if you really wanted to make it so you don't have to play the content too much. If you're just made you can't get what you want on day 1 what did you expect. Being real depending on your MR ranking all the way up could take maybe only about a week if you stay on top of it.

4 hours ago, (PS4)Deathscythex01 said:

I havent touched Warframe in nearly 2 years because its gotten too grind heavy and too much needless grind

Then who are you to comment on it? I love commenting on DE's stuff and I don't think commenting on some content you haven't played is the worse thing but, if you're 2 years gone then clearly you're behind and it looks like way more to you than it does to anyone whos up to date.

4 hours ago, (PS4)Deathscythex01 said:

DE Rebecca From a dev stream a year and a half ago. Well thanks for lying and blowing hot air up the entire communities butt. 

Goals change in a year and a half and adding new content isn't making the game more grindy it's adding more stuff to do. Obviously new content comes with a grind of sorts (have to put in some kind of work for stuff cant just rely on your resource stock pile as much as we'd love to), but that grind from what I've seen is less grindy than past content, and DE changed the way syndicate caps work in relation to MR so in that way they also made the syndicates in the game as a whole even less grindy. So they actually have done a bit of what they said they would. Could they do more sure but it's progress. 

 

What could they do: In my opinion the best way for them to lower the grind related to new resources is to tie in more old resources in an items building cost while only have 1 of the new resource in the recipe UNLESS the item is super new content themed then you probably should stick to resources gained from that content.

 

One last note, Youtubers are always gonna be somewhat burned out they have to binge content unlike the average player or they'll just be releasing videos someone else probably already made, they have to play it faster than us so that they can inform us, warframe isn't a game that you post like a lets play of it just doesn't work, most videos are information based cause the only thing worth posting about warframe is news and builds , exception for when new quest come out.

  

The MR rank to syndicate cap changes are in here to back up my previous statements

[Godmode_Ash]

1 hour ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Black Desert ruined really involved gameplay with abuse, so I don't play it, I don't see how comparing it to something unworthy demonstrates an excuse, Warframe can join Black Desert if it's dumb enough. 

They need to condense old grind and make it more accessible. Grind isn't content. 

 I was using BO as an example like most Korean MMO requires alot of grinding. Trying to say WF grind is nothing like those MMO.

I wasn't comparing gameplay from BO at all.

[S.Dust]

1 hour ago, BahamutKaiser said:

hey need to condense old grind and make it more accessible

They kinda did by increasing the amount of rep you can gain for all MRs in the game.

[Godmode_Ash]

1 hour ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

The RNG is an essential part of MMOs, you got everything else right but missed that. I've been playing them since 1999 (a bit before but I never played UO seriously or for any lengthy amount of time.) RNG is in every aspect of the game. If anything, DE let's you pass up the RNG if you pay platinum. The fact that you can pay to skip content, but can also grind out the content if you are poor/just prefer it is unusual from my experience.

You are right about every MMO has some sort of RNG. Maybe I needed to word it better. But I was talking about WF RNG being too excessive. For example, necramech mod has something like 0.05 drop chance.

Sure you can by-pass the farming and buy it with platinum, but doesn't that prove my point the RNG is too ridiculous?

[SpicyDinosaur]

4 minutes ago, Invoky said:

You are right about every MMO has some sort of RNG. Maybe I needed to word it better. But I was talking about WF RNG being too excessive. For example, necramech mod has something like 0.05 drop chance.

Sure you can by-pass the farming and buy it with platinum, but doesn't that prove my point the RNG is too ridiculous?

Yea, that's not excessive. Try farming a mask that turns you into a halfling that the mob that might have it rarely spawns and you usually get trash instead, have to fight people for the spawn, and it takes weeks even if you regularly get the spot the mob itself is so rare

 

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

You haven’t played in two years, why are you trying to offer feedback?

[Godmode_Ash]

9 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Yea, that's not excessive. Try farming a mask that turns you into a halfling that the mob that might have it rarely spawns and you usually get trash instead, have to fight people for the spawn, and it takes weeks even if you regularly get the spot the mob itself is so rare

 

It is and so was the example you given.

I remember when I used to play FF11 and we camped King Behemoth daily. After 3 years we finally got the Defending ring to drop, and I was rewarded for it as the main paladin in the clan. Then after 2 weeks, I decided to quit the game because I got really bored of the game(played 5 years). The entire clan was upset at me because there were only 3 rings ever exist in that server. So I ended up donating my account to another clanmate after all that pressure from peers. Now look it back, it was very silly how we created so much drama and how many hours we all wasted camping in that stupid game.

Just because MMO are known to be time consuming, doesn't mean we have to follow the tradition to make it painful to play. We all play games for the enjoyment and that should be the priority. 

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

18 minutes ago, Invoky said:

You are right about every MMO has some sort of RNG. Maybe I needed to word it better. But I was talking about WF RNG being too excessive. For example, necramech mod has something like 0.05 drop chance.

Sure you can by-pass the farming and buy it with platinum, but doesn't that prove my point the RNG is too ridiculous?

>1% drop rates can still be considered common. Rare, in games like RuneScape is 1/4000, 1/8000 or 1/16000

1/100 is common.