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Catchmoon Secondary shadow nerfed more?


BiancaRoughfin

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Swazdo-lah fellow Tennos!

Apparently [DE] further Nerfed the Secondary  Catchmoon this update by making its Width smaller , possibly the same as the Primary Catchmoon's width which means, less enemies hit per shot.

There is absolutely no mentioning of this in the game's Patch Notes.

As for its Range i believe it remains the same? I need more people to confirm this!

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1 hour ago, Battle.Mage said:

instead of starting with trash talk, you can at least post your build here.

It's not trash talk, I'm just saying, if it's weak for you, then something is wrong with the build.
I had no issue 2shotting in the steel path dailies.

As for builds, there are plenty on overframe that do the trick.

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11 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

It's not trash talk, I'm just saying, if it's weak for you, then something is wrong with the build.
I had no issue 2shotting in the steel path dailies.

As for builds, there are plenty on overframe that do the trick.

the new Meta bar. 

I just hope Umbra Forma farming doesnt force DE to start balancing for steel path. I dont think we're too far off from seeing "this weapon isnt even good in SP" rants. If 2 shotting enemies is going to be the new bar that everyone whines about, its going to turn the rest of the game into an even bigger cakewalk. 

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2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

the new Meta bar. 

I just hope Umbra Forma farming doesnt force DE to start balancing for steel path. I dont think we're too far off from seeing "this weapon isnt even good in SP" rants. If 2 shotting enemies is going to be the new bar that everyone whines about, its going to turn the rest of the game into an even bigger cakewalk. 

melee weapons already make steel path a joke, i'd like some variety in steel path other than mash E all day.
i say more primary and secondary weapons need a buff to compete with melee

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7 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

melee weapons already make steel path a joke, i'd like some variety in steel path other than mash E all day.
i say more primary and secondary weapons need a buff to compete with melee

The way it’s “supposed” to work is that melee weapons are stronger because they come with more risk of fighting up close. You’re safer at range, thus ranged weapons aren’t as strong. It’s “supposed” to be a trade off.

I use quotations because as we all know, it doesn’t really work that way. I don’t think buffing all ranged weapons is the solution, though some could certainly use a tweak or three. But buffing all ranged weapons “to compete with melee” would just trivialize the game even further than it already is.

I don’t have the answer for how to fix this, but I’d say it starts with reworking enemy AI to make using melee up close actually have the intended risk.

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9 minutes ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

The way it’s “supposed” to work is that melee weapons are stronger because they come with more risk of fighting up close. You’re safer at range, thus ranged weapons aren’t as strong. It’s “supposed” to be a trade off.

I use quotations because as we all know, it doesn’t really work that way. I don’t think buffing all ranged weapons is the solution, though some could certainly use a tweak or three. But buffing all ranged weapons “to compete with melee” would just trivialize the game even further than it already is.

I don’t have the answer for how to fix this, but I’d say it starts with reworking enemy AI to make using melee up close actually have the intended risk.

range mods for melee make the "up close" risk a non factor. "when i can hit an enemy from 9m with my rivened zaw why do i need primary or secondary?"

or use a macro and become a bayblade of doom, theres honestly a lot of things that make melee insane and not one change is going to fix it. 

i just want more options for fun at this point, not gonna bother with balance as there is none

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16 minutes ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

The way it’s “supposed” to work is that melee weapons are stronger because they come with more risk of fighting up close. You’re safer at range, thus ranged weapons aren’t as strong. It’s “supposed” to be a trade off.

I use quotations because as we all know, it doesn’t really work that way. I don’t think buffing all ranged weapons is the solution, though some could certainly use a tweak or three. But buffing all ranged weapons “to compete with melee” would just trivialize the game even further than it already is.

I don’t have the answer for how to fix this, but I’d say it starts with reworking enemy AI to make using melee up close actually have the intended risk.

Only way I could see that happening is if enemies learn "martial arts" as in, they can block attacks (and maybe counter attacks) then letting us "use the Parazon Button" to counter the enemy block and continue attacking the enemy. Probably make Special Melee Expert enemies the only ones that can block attacks with the special "Parazon Counter" floating notification above their heads, so it doesn't get annoying when every single enemy starts blocking attacks 

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40 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

range mods for melee make the "up close" risk a non factor. "when i can hit an enemy from 9m with my rivened zaw why do i need primary or secondary?"

or use a macro and become a bayblade of doom, theres honestly a lot of things that make melee insane and not one change is going to fix it. 

i just want more options for fun at this point, not gonna bother with balance as there is none

“Not gonna bother with balance as there is none” is not something a developer would ever say, so abandoning balance is just not a viable solution. DE tries to balance their game, but I think the problem is that they don’t seem to understand their game sometimes.

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7 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

spore is horrible too. both new kitguns are trash btw.

verm secondary is like weak mele. i even put 2 mods for more range to make it useful somehow.

here's my vermi build (I don't know how to put the vid in the post): https://imgur.com/a/RbgaCPB

chews through high level armor fine, and I haven't put any forma into it.

It's just a status beamshotgun. Which means like the phage, convectrix and phantasma it's capable of stacking status higher and faster than any other weapon in the game allowing it to tear through anything in the game. 

 

The sporelacer secondary build (which is also unforma'd) has a 100% chance to crit for 6.9x, and it's base damage is 4k on direct hit+6k aoe. If I'm direct hitting a guy, I'm doing 69k damage per shot on an infinite ammo gun which is pretty decent for a pistol given that two of it's mod slots are just empty and I could put anything.

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23 minutes ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

“Not gonna bother with balance as there is none” is not something a developer would ever say, so abandoning balance is just not a viable solution. DE tries to balance their game, but I think the problem is that they don’t seem to understand their game sometimes.

its a good thing i'm not a balance dev then, would've already gone to muitiple therapy sessions to the point of bankruptcy xd

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Obviousclone:

here's my vermi build (I don't know how to put the vid in the post): https://imgur.com/a/RbgaCPB

chews through high level armor fine, and I haven't put any forma into it.

It's just a status beamshotgun. Which means like the phage, convectrix and phantasma it's capable of stacking status higher and faster than any other weapon in the game allowing it to tear through anything in the game. 

 

The sporelacer secondary build (which is also unforma'd) has a 100% chance to crit for 6.9x, and it's base damage is 4k on direct hit+6k aoe. If I'm direct hitting a guy, I'm doing 69k damage per shot on an infinite ammo gun which is pretty decent for a pistol given that two of it's mod slots are just empty and I could put anything.

top!

which grip / loader btw?

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8 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

top!

which grip / loader btw?

the status beam vermi secondary uses flutterfire (the maximum status, minimum crit, fast reload smaller magazine) as the loader. The grip is Ulnaris (new grip).

the crit sporelacer secondary uses killstream (maximum crit, minimum status, fast reload smaller magazine) as the loader. Haymaker is used as the grip.

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18 hours ago, (PSN)Wil_Shatner_face said:

The way it’s “supposed” to work is that melee weapons are stronger because they come with more risk of fighting up close. You’re safer at range, thus ranged weapons aren’t as strong. It’s “supposed” to be a trade off.

I use quotations because as we all know, it doesn’t really work that way. I don’t think buffing all ranged weapons is the solution, though some could certainly use a tweak or three. But buffing all ranged weapons “to compete with melee” would just trivialize the game even further than it already is.

I don’t have the answer for how to fix this, but I’d say it starts with reworking enemy AI to make using melee up close actually have the intended risk.

I'd go about it by killing two birds with one stone. Energy is also broken, making high-powered abilties way to strong because the intended limiting factor - energy - isn't really a factor.

I'd move the main focus of energy regeneration away from arsenal-based tools like Zenurik or Pizzas, and more onto in-game performance with guns. You use resources and play to get resources - that's how action games work.  Several weaker weapons get better energy regeneration values, meaning there's an actual reason to bring two guns now - a damage dealer and a resource donkey. Similar changes get made to Ammo and Health (perhaps rework the mercy function to make it the primary means of regenerating health? With a mod that lets you skip the animations if you want, since I know plenty of people don't like them).

Of course, Melee weapons cost no resources to use and are super powerful in raw damage - so take away life strike and make them basically unable to regenerate your Frame's energy health or other resources - with the exception of ammo for your guns. Now Melee has a opportunity cost - you're not losing anything, per se, but especially if you're also supporting yourself with abilities, you'll run out of juice and health sooner or later. It even ties into that original trade-off - it's a risk to use melee, because not only are you closer to the front lines, using sword alone cuts off your ability to resupply from that.

In short - guns are weaker, but are both safer and have better sustain overall, whilst melee is stronger but over-reliance will gradually dry you out.

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If you look in your profile, all your usage stats for secondary kitguns will match your primary kitguns. My catchmoon pistol went from my most used (40%+) to 0.0%, 551,016 XP, 33 kills, 15 assists, 24% accuracy, 3 headshot kills. These are now the stats for both the primary and secondary catchmoon, so something is wrong here. Rattleguts, Tombfinger and Gaze have the same stat-copy issue. I don't have the two new ones to check them.

I did a mission with the pistol catchmoon equipped and killed a bunch of enemies. Profile shows no increase in any of the stats. It's broken.

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