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Dev Workshop: Corpus Proxima & The New Railjack


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 I am really glad that additional crew could basically be people from anywhere.  It is nice to know that a great variety is being considered.

 I dislike that Nekramechs are considered useful, but that is just personal preference.  I don't like them and it is kind of weird to give up on our warframes for something bulky and clumsy.

 And I don't believe Gian point was drawing all the players.  I think Railjack in general was just not drawing in players and the changes will bring some in for a time, but it just isn't going to hold players.  It's the same ole problem with archwing.  More content and it would be its own game, but as a side mission, it just doesn't fit in to Warframe.

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10 minutes ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

Can't access Eidolons at all when the suns up. Nice try tho.

I was going to out petty you but then you didnt understand my first post. Good job.

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I'm fine with the harness as proposed, the crew never bought much to table and often don't even need to shot, forge or even board ships because I fly with 900 flux plus thether and frontal artillery avionics.
After this if someone want to fly with amesha they bring the winged buff mods and do it. 
I see those mods more like player role than ship specs like the avionics are. Also from what I read I don't see them stacking between players so I don't get the hybrid feel some players wrote about.

Off course I understand the ones saying they prefer the "my ship feeling", but I prefer my squad mates do stuff instead of just idle. Besides the ship componentes will still be managed by the host. And those were what mattered the most aside from frontal artillery mods and tether. 

That being said using warframe energy is absurd. Don't make sense for either lore or gameplay feel. It just feels wrong and out of place for a ship game mode not even archwings that ARE CONNECTED to the warframe waist use warframe energy.

I'm not even worried about meta (since I'm guilty of using dispensary + energize already) or the pilot leaving seat (it takes seconds to him to pop a dash go back).

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FEEDBACK:

- Battle/Tacticals running off warframe energy sounds very bad...  right now you can bring whatever warframe you want into Railjack and have the same amount of control over a railjack.   Now your saying we all have to use warframes w/ prime flow, zenurik school, arcane energize, energy pizzas ???   If you never leave the ship how can you kill stuff to get energy back if you arent using that stuff ????        that sounds really bad and limiting.....

- Ripping out Gian Point... Lets be clear... True the vast majority of people abused Gian Point to easily acquire intrinsics/gear no doubt.   BUT.... Alot of people who just wanted to play Railjack did that mission because all the other missions are not solo friendly.   Enemy Points of Interest were made to require you to be on the inside and the outside and that is to much work to do SOLO.   Which is how the majority of people who actualy enjoyed RJ just for the fun of it played.     You talk about new missions and no more "skirmishes" but I do not hear ANY talk about making points of interest solo friendly!!!   I guess your hoping these RJ changes will remove all obstacles to squad play and aot of it sounds like it might do just that.   But there are still people who will want to go solo.    I would love to just play random nodes but not when POI's require 2 people or else it takes 30-45mins yeah im gonna skip those and go for the kill crew/fighter missions...  

-----------------------------

-Love the static tac map.

-Love infinite boost/drift??  Unclear on when our guns get locked down....  You only talked about boosting.   There was intrins to increase turret damage while boosting....     Locking down weapons during drift makes total sense tho...   But you didnt directly talk about DRIFT.  But if we get infinite energy holy crap I am ALL IN!!!!!!!

-I really DO NOT see the point of needing MY battle/tac mods when i visit someone elses ship... That was never an issue.   What was an issue is if they had crappy turrets, forcing me to go archwing.  Being able to have access to MY turrets when on someone elses ship... now that sounds amazeballs.   Battle/Tac not so much...    HOWEVER...looking at the big pictures... if this is what it took to let you track resources seperately between people I completely and totally understand and support it fully.  If you HAD to do this to avionics to keep people from messing with my resources fine....   Im just not 100% sure you HAD to do it this way....   All you had to do was make resources individual...  I dont care if a newb captain had zero battle avi or wierd tac avi.... it was THEIR ship.......     You think old sail boat sailors were like,  you know this ship just doesnt have enough cannons on it im gonna wait for the next ship to crew....       but anyways LOVE individual resource pools! 

-I didnt hear alot about slingshot.  Its buggy as hell.   But it desperatey needs the ability to only target crewships/bases and not all the turd little fighters flying around. 

==========================

Im a solo clan.  I built my dry dock, got all (MAX bonus) mk3 gear,  have all intrinsics at 10.     But under your set up I am not an early adopter of railjack lol.   I dont think I have repaired 30 wrecks....   Is there a way to see how many wrecks we have repaired???   Is the game just going to count how many things we have in our inventory????  What if we have repaired wrecks and then deleted them ???   I want that max early adopter bonus =/  I embraced Railjack day 1 and had my ship maxed out before the first revision =/  

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I now see how this early adoption thing works, but I wanna ask, how do you exactly reach 30 wreckages?
because there is only five armament types and three types of components in three houses (15 + 9 = 24)
do I need to grab some duplicates to fill in those 30 slots or something?

 

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Just now, CJmckay said:

I now see how this early adoption thing works, but I wanna ask, how do you exactly reach 30 wreckages?
because there is only five armament types and three types of components in three houses (15 + 9 = 24)
do I need to grab some duplicates to fill in those 30 slots or something?

 

I assume they are catering to back when we had no fusion we were also not yet aware of the best in slot so we HAD to build 2 guns and bad components across all tiers just to get by the missions, since most likely their sigma took forever to research  

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8 hours ago, DLOArceus said:

So if i'm reading this correctly the frame that was supposed to release early/mid March got pushed to mid/end of April/May instead? That's amazing.

Are you, in all honesty, surprised?

 

edit: I was not expecting this patch until april, to be honest. Seeing how consistent DE is in regards to delaying content that is still deployed half baked and with an overwhelming amount of bugs.

 

Edit2:

Seeing all the confusion and chaos in this thread is even more evident DE doesn't even play their own game. Bet my 7k plat baza riven that based god Pablo was not even involved/consulted in these changes.

Edited by Zoero
DEpressing
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Add me to the pile of people wanting clarification on wreckage.  Does it mean built wreckage?  Scrapped?  Valence fused?  Any tier or specific tiers?  I have a nearly maxed Railjack, but I dunno if I'd even qualify for Tier 2 if it's fully built only.

 

Also, will there be a way to opt into a host's loadout?  Might be particularly useful if bringing someone newer along.  The nice thing about current Railjack is I can bring my low MR friend and just let him pilot or gun, which lets him actually feel useful and get to participate.  Even aside that, could be fun with friends to just fly someone's particular loadout for the experience.  Seeing and using different Railjacks was kinda neat.

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So, the Railjack we have built is now an empty husk that will be powered by anyone's "Plexus" ? Damn that's completely ruining the thing. That also makes Railjack beginners just... leechers if they can't do damage at all, with the current system they can hop in a fully decked Railjack and wreck some stuff with the amazing Turrets and Avionics.

Once again I feel like this rework is gonna make the whole system extra-convoluted. Also adding a new layer of grinding by requiring us to forma our "Plexus" 10 billion times.

Warframe's energy giving energy to the Railjack (sorry what ? Are we plugged in with a USB-C adapter ?) is stupid and you know it. Railjack was the only area where our Warframe didn't matter for Railjack piloting stuff. Now you mean we'll have to bring Energize/Dispensary/Zenurik (Octavia as well for her passive) ? What's an awesome design, totally not limiting us in our choices /s

That's even totally contradictory with Necramechs. If we can "power" our Railjack with our Warframe's energy, no reason to limit Necra's energy. Zenurik/Energize proc'ing on Necramech when, for consistency's sake ?

I'm also not that hyped by reducing the size of all areas of the Railjack (only trusting the words here, didn't see the video). I don't want to hop in that huge monster just to have the feeling to be in a closet tbh.

Finally, concerned about that Hull new materials stuff. Does that mean our Railjack will be cardboard ships until we get a decent one, even if we spent god-knows-how-much amount of plats/dirac and other materials into perfecting it ?

And what the #*!% do the "Tier" stuff mean ? I didn't understand this part at all.

Edited by Chewarette
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Il y a 11 heures, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

5

Necramechs Become Deployable in all Railjack missions.

DE, i was waiting for the fact that Necramechs would be playable in every mission with the new intrinsic... Now you say that we could only use them in Railjack mission ? Why ? I mean, it don't think it would impact too much in terms of gameplay if you made them playable in every mission, even if you need to make it a higher intrinsic level. It's a very good concept and feeling to play with a Necramech, and you're just binding it to certain missions...

I was excited for this update and i still am, but i'm extremely disapointed about this decision...

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Hi, i am a little lost in this eligible thing from Wreckage.

Player has Completed 1 or more Wreckage or Clan BP: Tier 1

1x Rush Repair Drone
2x Armament Slots
10 x Riven Slivers
Bonus Railjack Mods
- Munitions Vortex
- Battle Forge
- Particle Ram
- Void Hole
- Railjack Resource Bundle

Player has completed at least 12 Wreckage: Tier 2

- Everything in Tier 1
- 2x Rush Repair Drones
- 15 Riven Slivers
- 10,000 Endo
 -7 Day Resource and Affinity Booster
- Railjack Resource Bundle #2

Player has completed at least 30 Wreckage: Tier 3

 - Everything in Tier 1 AND Tier 2
 - 3x Rush Repair Drones
 - Legendary Core
 - Umbra Forma
 - Railjack Resource Bundle #3

 

To be eligible for Tier 3, can i just craft the same (for example) Clan BP 30 times ? Thanks for future answers !

edit : after some reflections and look on this post's answers from players, i find it wrong to be based on repaired Wreckage... I have maxed intrinsics/avionics, all armaments T3 (not maxed via Valence fusion), same for compenent. So i stopped playing Railjack for obvious reasons (nothing usefull to do anymore).. So, PLEASE, reconsider how the met conditions works !

Edited by Arridian
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The wreckage measurement is just as bad as flip flopping riven mod descriptions from the Luminous Brilliance Bundle.. As others mentioned, we don't even have 30 turrets and arrays on the ship. Why would I mash buttons and repair everything when I can solo the veil with no issues with my current gear? Not to mention, a lot kept a clean inventory because you yourself decided to lock out players from playing if they are above the cap that can literally be reached in a couple of missions. 

So literally playing since railjacks initial release and completing everything, be it instrincts, grids, avionics etc. is not considered an early adopter, only repaired wreckage? 

I also don't like that there's  no info if you're clocking it now, or clock it some time else. It seems to just basically push people to spend their rush drones to address stockpiles (I don't even have drones to rush) and around 10 bucks per player in Plat thanks to the slot system. And in the end, there's the chance of 'only eligible before the post' as it has happened in the past. 

Thanks I guess, I already know I'll be done with the mode if it turns out how I think it will turn out. 

---

Another concern is, me and others celebrated in joy not having to forma the railjack. After the kuva lich debacle, which in the future could end up with hundreds of weapons, all requiring 5 Forma for mastery and in the future maybe even more?, I'm basically done with wasting Forma and my time.

Now the forma system will be introduced to railjack. Something that was gone for good. And if there's a chance you apply the "oh it comes with pre installed slots" like prime gear and or exalted, where I actively have to reforma slots, because you think all mods have D polarities, I'm seriously gonna treat railjack as I do my archwings. As if it doesn't exist. 

---

While hastely flying over the text filled me with joy, looking further into your statements just basically killed any hype regarding the update for me before it's even there.

---

Good luck 🤞 

Edited by (XBOX)TyeGoo
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Firstly, it has been said over and over again, but still: Wrackage?

Then, I like how you try to make Railjack more accessible. Most of those changes will probably be very much appreciated by those who always wanted try Railjack, but were scared away by how complex it seemed (yes, seemed, but okay).

Warframe Energy instead of Flux? Welp, getting Hildryn back into the game XD.

Those hull breach changes seem like a very two edged sword. If implemented correctly they can provide challenge, if implemented wrongly, it's gonna get reeaaally annoying, calling it already.

The AI team is worrying me a bit tbh. The I here often enough stands for Idiot. I don't want the gunners to waste dome charges on anything other than crew ships and I most certainly don't want to see the AI guys filling up the wrong resources in the forge. Be cautious!

Finally a question: Avionics are now gone and we know we get the endo back for the grit. But how do leveled up avionics fare. Do we keep them as leveled mods or do we just 'lose' that dirac?

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What do you mean by "completed Wreckage"? I have maxed out components, armaments, intrinsics and all avionics, but with your strange wording I'm still not sure what I will get. 😕

 

Edited by disrawtomato
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Are the AW and NM health/shield buffs going to be made into real buffs, like an actual 25=30% of leveled/modded health, because as of right now it's 25% of base health which practically nothing. If 25% modded health is too much then make it like 10, hell 5% modded health is WAY more than 25-30% base.

Game changing T8 intrinsics:

Archwing damage/ strength /range /efficiency +20%

Really good T8 intrinsics:

Archwing speed +20%
Archwing Blink cooldown -25% + Necramech summon cooldown -25%

Good for 1500 MR points and literally nothing else:

Archwing BASE shield/armor/health +30%

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Seems great , I'm excited for those changes and new content.

P.s. Since Avionics are now Mods , does that mean I have to spend money along side Endo to upgrade them , instead of only using Direc ?

It is fine for me since I have way too much extra credits , but it may be a bit hard for newer players to invest in them.

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I normally don't do much in the way of feedback for dev workshops since I prefer to see your vision first before I make judgement, but all things considered, I feel the need to point out some major issues. I'll separate them according to section, and I will try to offer solutions, not just criticisms. A warning to players reading this, it is a raid-boss level wall of text and meant for the devs. I welcome replies, but don't expect short. Trigger warning: math.
 

Also, I would like to note that I talk about progression rollback of the players. In all fairness I should point out that this does NOT affect me personally, I have been playing the game for over 7 years and have well over twelve thousand hours logged in (with close to 8 thousand being in mission) I have the spare forma, endo, and credits to cover the cost of the proposed changes. That being said, the game should NOT be balanced around players like me. While I will be fine regardless of if changes are made, I foresee a lot of sub MR25 players feeling robbed and maybe even leaving because of it.

What will happen on login?

  1. "Avionics to Mods" and "Dirac to Endo": a 1 to 1 Dirac to Endo conversion is completely unfair. Because the cost of a maxing an Avionic and the +3 ranks in grid slot to get a max rank Avionic in Dirac is way lower than the cost of ranking a mod with an equal rank. I will use Hyperstrike as an example. It's considered a rare Avionic, and to get it to R7 would cost 3810 Dirac, plus the 2600 for the R+3 gridslot, bringing the total to 6410 Dirac. When converted to a mod, and if it kept parity by having 10 ranks to match the output of the avionic version (7 from the avionic and 3 from the slot) and stayed as a rare mod, it will cost a total or 30,690 Endo AND 1,482,327 credits (compared to the previous 6410 Dirac). So from these numbers if you are to refund the dirac before converting it to a mod, and then do a 1:1 conversion of dirac to endo, you are actually rolling back our progression, which, to be honest, is NOT COOL. The same will happen if you convert them as they stand, to almost as severe a degree, because, using the Hyperstrike example, even if you give me the Avionic at R7 and refund the 2600 Dirac for the slot, it will still cost me an additional 24,280 Endo and 1,298,304 credits to get those last three ranks I had in my +3R gridslot. Suggestion: Use the grid mechanic and allow us to upgrade plexus slots the way we could grid slots and keep all mods at the rank they were when they were intrinsics. This would be the most fair conversion barring a complete rebalance of everything so that the mods we get will give us the same performance after the update as we get now, but if you are going to give me a R4 Voidhole, and then expect me to spend an additional 30,000+Dirac and almost 1.5 million credits to get it back to the same level (the mod version is a R10 in the images, and I am assuming it's rank 10 will be equivalent to the current rank 7), then you better be giving me at least a 1:10 conversion, or else you are, as I said, majorly rolling back my progress.
  2. Meet the Plexus. This isn't as bad a change the previous, but it comes at a price I don't know know if I'm happy to pay, and that is the loss of individuality of the ship itself, in both how it handles and plays. It doesn't fix anything except to shift the problem to a new peice of gear that is just going to add more grind and limit options even more: The Plexus. It is apparent that you will expect us to forma this bit of gear as well and level it each time, but while each forma gives the ability to add more mods, it limits our options in what those mods are going to be, and you still haven't even bothered to fix the polarity imbalance on regular warframes yet, much less anything else. A long time ago (update 15), it even looked like you tried to address the issue when you created archwing mods (e.g. making the toxin mods vazarin instead of naramon) but then you seemed to immediately give up on it and leave everything else as is and then proceed to do the same as you always had from that point on. To add salt to the wound, you are giving us multiple loadouts while at the same time limiting what those loadouts can be (through the forma system) instead of giving them to us earlier when the loadout could be what we wanted it to be due to the higher freedom of the current system. I can't help but assume you will do the same with railjack mod polarities and the plexus, meaning that if I want a dedicated pilot plexus and a dedicated gunner plexus, I'm going to need to have two separate ones because all the gunnery mods will be Madurai, while all the piloting will be Vazarin or Naramon. This is assuming we will even be allowed to have multiple... plexi? plexuses? (which, for the record, is NOT a good solution to the issue). So,  just like the "Avionics to Mods" change (as it stands), you are going to take away something and add more grind to let us get it back. Again, NOT COOL. Solution: Don't know if it is even possible, but instead of just giving us loadouts, have the plexus change states depending on where you are at. If you are in a turret have it switch to the Gunner profile, switch to Pilot when at the helm, and a third state when not attached. When we forma it, the forma selects the polarity for each state differently, so what might be a Madurai in Gunner can be a Naramon in Pilot (similar to how you can choose different abilities per config in Helminth). If you are feeling generous, let this apply to warframes as well, so people like me don't need multiple primes for different builds using Umbral mods. Yes, I know the chances for things to go wrong and bugs to occur ramp up exponentially with this many "moving parts" to code, but I will take dealing with that over homogenized generic Jack of all trade builds that will be the result of this proposed system.
  3. On Intrinsic 2.0: Be consistant. You have 3 nice entries for Archwings (R8 Piloting, Gunnery, and Engineering) they give a nice, well grouped bonuses. With the Necramech additions you took those same bonuses and scattered them at R5, R7, R8, and R9 in 4 slots with substandard numbers on one. While the tank bonus (health, armor, and shields) are comparable (since NM's have much more than AW's, in fact it might be too high), 10% gun damage does not compare to 20% damage (all, not just guns), power strength, power range, AND power efficency. Especially since this was added to balance the much smaller mod pool archwings have compared to warframes when you consolidated the damage balance between two game modes (which necramechs also suffer from). Suggestion: Set the Necramech changes all at R7 intrinsics, and have the R7 necramech gunnery give the same types of buffs as the R8 archwing gunnery, just at 10% instead of 20%.
  4. New Railjack Component: Hull: While not major, it underlines the major issue I have with the proposed changes, you are turning every railjack into the same railjack. There will be, inevitable a BiS hull that everyone will eventually get and since everything else has been moved to the plexus, everything will be the same. If you really want to keep that from happening, I have one suggestion. How hard it will be to implement I honestly don't know, but you remember the original Tennocon Railjack reveal? There was an engineering console where you could control power levels for the ship with this neat triangle slider (as well as other cool features I doubt we'll see), add that control scheme to the ship, have the hull decide the base numbers, but have the console control distribution between Hull, Armor, and a Speed Bonus. Lets say you want the to ships to have, at max what they have now (5060 Health and 3530 Armor), well your current solution means that everyone will get the hull that matches and all have the same amount, but with my proposed system, a player who wants a shield tank can put extra health at the cost of armor and reduce the armor even more and instead give the ship a base speed bonus, or, if you would prefer a simpler UI and caculation scheme, you can just do two sliders: one for either hull or speed bonus and the second for either an armor or shield bonus. This means that even if everyones ship has the BiS hull, they will still feel and play differently.

2. What is different in mission?

  1. Individual resource pools. So many issues with how this is going to be abused by players, but there is a simple solution: have the flux energy based on a warframes max energy, NOT their current energy and it's own resourceaw. As the changes are now, you are turning engineers into the Railjack equivalent of CC: "A nice addition" but completely unneeded in gameplay and who's slot can be filled by someone else with a better skillset (i.e. Plexus loadout). As someone previously stated, engineers currently are the crew equivalent of Trinity, but what I think they were implying but didn't spell out is that they are her equivalent in the game 5 years ago, not as she is now. Don't add passive regen, dont allow us to get more energy for shipboad systems through pizza, make us use the systems you have. Have energy restored through engineering be percentage based, so that a R1 engineer can restore 25% of everyones flux, but a R10 will restore 75% (this will limit "overhealing" as it were). This will make it into something you seem to miss the mark on a lot: making something prefered but not mandatory instead of making something unneeded and with only a marginal benefit. Same goes with ammo and charges, keep it individual, but don't give it a passive regen, or at least only give passive regen when the station is held by an NPC crewmember.
  2. Malfunctions and Hazards. A good start, but needs more. You need to make every role important, not just pilot and gunner. Add hazards that need a set intrinsic level to fix and NPC engineers skill counts as 2 intrinsics per rank (so a 5 dot NPC engineer can fix a R10 hazard). Instead of getting rid of them, have hull breaches skew the ship as vented atmosphere acts as an unwanted vector thrust nozzle. Have fire spread (I nave nightmares about fire on a spaceship and I'm not even an astronaut) as well as the listed changes. Make hazards hazardous, not just inconveniences. Make repairs on them minigames like existing ones. For example, with electircal shorts have the repair be similar to a corpus hack as you reroute the damaged circuits, not just spraying it with Wonderfoam™. Easy and simple do not need to be synonomous, nor do complex and fast need be opposites. Add a little complexity, don't just take it all away for the sake "streamlining".

 That's it, the rest of the stuff I feel I should reserve judgement on until I play it, and while I know there is a LOT of criticism in this post, it is not done in anger or without long thought. It comes from someone who has loved this game for 8 years solid and wishes to continue to do so, but the changes I have discussed feel, for lack of a better phrase, not fully considered. It is my hope that this is what it is listed as and actual workshop where significant changes can still be made, and not just a warning of coming changes despite the feedback they recieve.

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