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Upcoming Gun Buffs


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~

So, I hear that how DE is doing it,
is boosting the damage of the gun mods...

But, also making it so the boosts only take effect when you don't have a melee equipped?

What?

This is going to make people just solo melee if their gun mods don't work while with a melee.

I use my main Melee weapon for it's utility, not because it's good.
(which is not good, not even in the top 10 list)
I'm not going to unequip it just so I can shoot things harder.

~

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13 minutes ago, -SicMundusCreatusEst- said:

It's not confirmed, talking about rumors is pointless.

It's not confirmed. But considering what a counterproductive idea it is, and how slow DE can be to act on  feedback, I think it's worth talking about.

(This is General Discussion, so the bar is set pretty low.  I mean, "Warframe Rivens" low. 😉)

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I guess I'm in the minority because DE actually does a much better job than the forums and youtubers claim. Speculation rage always falls flat and, since Warframe is all about variety, I think it's healthy for the game to resist definitive mods and gear. I welcome the rumored 300% mods because I would then have a completely new play style to try out. If they don't work out overall, then I won't use them.

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Once I am strong I want to fly through trash minions, but seeing that there will be nerfs to melee so we need few seconds for each trash minion, I highly doubt that guns will be buffed enough to be more usable.
ATM guns are at spot where we need 3 to 4 hits to kill trash and melee needs around the same but does it faster (3 sec vs 2 sec)
You see guns are actually already fine, DE and community wants to nerf melee so that out of all options guns seem more attractive by Nerfing melee so that it is in comparison stronger.

TLDR don't expect much of a buff but a new meta because melee won't be that good anymore

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34 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

I guess I'm in the minority because DE actually does a much better job than the forums and youtubers claim. Speculation rage always falls flat and, since Warframe is all about variety, I think it's healthy for the game to resist definitive mods and gear. I welcome the rumored 300% mods because I would then have a completely new play style to try out. If they don't work out overall, then I won't use them.

Agreed.

Slightly off-to-the-side; when I hear players complain about changes, current and future, I tend to (not always, mind) hear "Warframe content is that slog we have to go through for the sake of the grind, let me get mission times down to 1 minute until I'm pulled up short by Steel Path, then claim I'm an expert in balance."

Sure, there's always things to improve. I don't trust most of the player base to be good at deciding how it should go if the aforementioned perspective is where they're coming from (though there are some clever ideas floating around).

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friendly reminder that anything said before the Dev Workshop on the 16th is unconfirmed rumors, speculation and hearsay. 

personally I always take a Melee, even when levelling guns, because it's much easier for me to press a button than try hip-firing at targets within breathing distance where their hitboxes can get janky. I tend to aim more and hip-fire way less than I think most players do, unless I'm using a minimal effort weapon like Ignis Wraith. I just hope the focus is more towards the regular bullet guns that have no AoE, as they need the most help.

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I would suggest to wait for the actual workshop , all "leaked data " may be completely off or a red herring.

That being said If they do release a "300% damage if no melee equipped" mod which is only 80% more than the base variant , that is a dead mod right there.

The damage is only an effective 36% boost , and I would be loosing a lot lot more utility due to lack of a melee than what I would be gaining (no slams , no parrying , no quick crate openers) , not to mention the actual damage and effectiveness drop cause I won't have a melee with their respective mod/arcane bonuses.

I would like a reason to pick guns over melee , but that mod is not it.

So wait for the official thread.

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vor 13 Stunden schrieb General_Durandal:

~

So, I hear that how DE is doing it,
is boosting the damage of the gun mods...

But, also making it so the boosts only take effect when you don't have a melee equipped?

What?

This is going to make people just solo melee if their gun mods don't work while with a melee.

I use my main Melee weapon for it's utility, not because it's good.
(which is not good, not even in the top 10 list)
I'm not going to unequip it just so I can shoot things harder.

~

well ...
do you want to give up 2-3 mil crits of heavy attack?
that's not a buff but a blatant nerf ........ I also like the way I play with the finisher from mele.

or unlimited ammo ??? every beginner would never want to do without it.

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9 hours ago, Battle.Mage said:

well ...
do you want to give up 2-3 mil crits of heavy attack?
that's not a buff but a blatant nerf ........ I also like the way I play with the finisher from mele.

or unlimited ammo ??? every beginner would never want to do without it.

I'd rather they stay as they are.
The system right now is actually pretty good.

When people complain about guns not being good,
they are talking about the overall.
Most guns can't compete, meaning there is a meta.

Melee however, almost any melee can be made end-game viable now.

Hek, my machete is able to kill level 60 enemies.
Machete is as far as I know, the worst melee in the game,
meaning any melee should be able to do higher then 60.

Sure, there are meta melee weapons,
but there will ALWAYS, 
be a meta for everything when numbers are involved.
That's just how numbers work.
The weapon with the biggest numbers is the winner.

Now, if they did what Diablo 3 did,
and make all weapons of a type have the same base damage/stats,
then things would be more "balanced".

All light pistoles have the same damage/fire rate/crit chance/ ect,
all heavy pistoles have the same damage/fire rate/crit chance/ ect,
but after the numbers are pit together they have the same DPS,
It's just 1 strong hit bs many small hits with higher crits.

Example,
All light pistoles, like Lato, would have,
10 damage, 12 fire rate, 25 crit chance, 3x crit damage,
while all heavy pistoles like Lex would have,
50 damage, 6 fire rate, 12.5 crit chance, 2x crit damage.
Mathematically they'd have the same DPS.

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22 hours ago, General_Durandal said:

~

So, I hear that how DE is doing it,
is boosting the damage of the gun mods...

But, also making it so the boosts only take effect when you don't have a melee equipped?

What?

This is going to make people just solo melee if their gun mods don't work while with a melee.

I use my main Melee weapon for it's utility, not because it's good.
(which is not good, not even in the top 10 list)
I'm not going to unequip it just so I can shoot things harder.

~

pretty sure this is only gonna be one of many mod changes ( as in its literally just the 1 mod) and not the main way the all the new mods will be work so its just options at the end of the day like there are some people who dont run melee out there and some mission that remove melee the mod is probably gonna be niche imo 

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14 minutes ago, Orokin said:

Which is why the leaked mods are garbage, they remove variety & synergy

Aren’t people already paying the ~4-mod slot cost to engage with the higher-level content? 🤔 

I’m not speculating regarding the new mods, but I do find it odd that some have argued for variety and builds when they’re only doing something like Steel Path, which requires certain stat-increasing mods just to survive and kill, right? (I might be wrong)

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10 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Aren’t people already paying the ~4-mod slot cost to engage with the higher-level content? 🤔 

I’m not speculating regarding the new mods, but I do find it odd that some have argued for variety and builds when they’re only doing something like Steel Path, which requires certain stat-increasing mods just to survive and kill, right? (I might be wrong)

People are paying the 4 mod cost because that is the current balance of the game. Please don't tell me you believe the player shouldn't optimize when that is the whole point of the game.

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1 hour ago, General_Durandal said:

Hek, my machete is able to kill level 60 enemies.
Machete is as far as I know, the worst melee in the game,
meaning any melee should be able to do higher then 60.

Interestingly , when DÊ made the last big change for melee everyone was shipping to heavy attack builds which matchetes started to shine a bit , that is before them nerfing enemy to counterbalance the bad effect on melees , but matchettes with forced slash procs on their heavy attack was something people were looking out for a little while , lol .. 

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1 hour ago, Orokin said:

People are paying the 4 mod cost because that is the current balance of the game. Please don't tell me you believe the player shouldn't optimize when that is the whole point of the game.

Bingo! The point of the game is to have fun; if you're optimizing the fun out of the game, then your decision should be revisited.

The game and the grind work in tandem, and if a player is playing the game from a Grind is Priority 1, Game is Priority 2, and they're optimizing for the grind, I have an idea how that goes;

  • Frustration when the reward doesn't drop
  • Annoyance that missions take more than ~3 minutes
  • Wishing that they could grind faster and faster and faster, because they've then earned everything themselves, and that's worth more than playing a game
  •  Bulletjump EVERYWHERE because it's fast
  • The fun'll start when they get their reward, and the journey itself is a painful, torturous slog
  • Burnout because of constant boring farming in a game that, by player choice, has no failstate
  • Fear of failure because it slows the grind down, so a player breaks the game so that there's no failure
  • More bulletpoints I'll try to keep this succinct

I'm saying an alternative (alternative, as in make a choice as desired) is Game Priority 1, Grind Priority 2, and so far (for me) it goes something like this;

  • When the reward doesn't drop, "Oh well, I had fun trying to get it, better luck next time."
  • Missions take ~10-15 minutes, and unique experiences can happen in those missions, and I welcome the chance to be saved by my Lich, or defend the Mobile Defense objective from certain death at the very last second
  • There's a lot to get; better accept that I'm not going to get everything on my own, I'll just vaguely play towards what I'd like, and if I really want it, there's options to skip the grind for many things, so I can focus on the game
  • I'll just keep Bulletjump in the back pocket for now, bring it out if I think it'll be a cooler thing to do than wall-climbing everywhere (so far, wall-climbing has won except for once or twice)
  • 🎶Got a new toy (Buzlok at the moment), time to play with it until I eventually get a different one🎵, then I get to choose whatever I feel like instead of shoving Buzlok to the side because it's not as efficient as, say, ...Whatever...the most efficient thing is. I have seriously not given two #*!%s for the efficiency discussion, so I'm drawing a blank.
  • Can't wait to get back into more Warframe!
  • Failure is what I strive to avoid, but not by overpowering force, but by walking the knife's edge where my decisions can make or break my success. I have failed so many missions, lost everything except the bonusless EXP, and I'm completely fine with it, since I chose to walk that fine line. If it gets too frustrating, I'd slap on my best gear and really teach those level 20s a lesson, but by then I'd wonder "What am I playing this game for again...?". And the game rewards me for not optimizing, on top of the fight that I just had fun in! I get all these new options that can let me play in different ways

Obviously this is a personal take on two approaches, and there's overlap (example: people who have fun with being absolutely overpowered will inevitably grind faster), but yeah.

I've seen players complain that they're bored, and if a player's bored, why are they making themselves bored? Far as I can tell, the answer is that they're valuing the grind over the game itself (or something about precious glued-in builds), which is like "That... doesn't sound all that fun".

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13 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I'm saying an alternative (alternative, as in make a choice as desired) is Game Priority 1, Grind Priority 2, and so far (for me) it goes something like this;

  • When the reward doesn't drop, "Oh well, I had fun trying to get it, better luck next time."
  • Missions take ~10-15 minutes, and unique experiences can happen in those missions, and I welcome the chance to be saved by my Lich, or defend the Mobile Defense objective from certain death at the very last second
  • There's a lot to get; better accept that I'm not going to get everything on my own, I'll just vaguely play towards what I'd like, and if I really want it, there's options to skip the grind for many things, so I can focus on the game
  • I'll just keep Bulletjump in the back pocket for now, bring it out if I think it'll be a cooler thing to do than wall-climbing everywhere (so far, wall-climbing has won except for once or twice)
  • 🎶Got a new toy (Buzlok at the moment), time to play with it until I eventually get a different one🎵, then I get to choose whatever I feel like instead of shoving Buzlok to the side because it's not as efficient as, say, ...Whatever...the most efficient thing is. I have seriously not given two #*!%s for the efficiency discussion, so I'm drawing a blank.
  • Can't wait to get back into more Warframe!
  • Failure is what I strive to avoid, but not by overpowering force, but by walking the knife's edge where my decisions can make or break my success. I have failed so many missions, lost everything except the bonusless EXP, and I'm completely fine with it, since I chose to walk that fine line. If it gets too frustrating, I'd slap on my best gear and really teach those level 20s a lesson, but by then I'd wonder "What am I playing this game for again...?". And the game rewards me for not optimizing, on top of the fight that I just had fun in! I get all these new options that can let me play in different ways

Obviously this is a personal take on two approaches, and there's overlap (example: people who have fun with being absolutely overpowered will inevitably grind faster), but yeah.

I've seen players complain that they're bored, and if a player's bored, why are they making themselves bored? Far as I can tell, the answer is that they're valuing the grind over the game itself, which is like "That... doesn't sound all that fun".

My God, this is such a spot on view of my version of Warframe!! Everyone has their own of course, but the overall scope of this quote is exactly why I'm nowhere near tired or frustrated with the game. What's more is that you speak of a tale of two obsessions: obsession with fun versus obsession with rewards.

The obsession with fun, IMO, has me praising DE due to I still having not cleared corpus Railjack because there's so much to experience and admire, like wondering if those beautifully designed space elements contain a secret or what's really up with those portals. I still haven't discovered most of Deimos and still need to check out more of gas city! 1602 days of log-ins and finally playing with Zephyr and Limbo may sound crazy but what's the rush?

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2 hours ago, Orokin said:

Which is why the leaked mods are garbage, they remove variety & synergy

No, they would OFFER variety and challenge observation of new setups. No melee play would be something completely new to some players, giving them an opportunity to see if they're up for a bladeless kill fest.

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10 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Bingo! The point of the game is to have fun; if you're optimizing the fun out of the game, then your decision should be revisited.

The game and the grind work in tandem, and if a player is playing the game from a Grind is Priority 1, Game is Priority 2, and they're optimizing for the grind, I have an idea how that goes;

  • Frustration when the reward doesn't drop
  • Annoyance that missions take more than ~3 minutes
  • Wishing that they could grind faster and faster and faster, because they've then earned everything themselves, and that's worth more than playing a game
  •  Bulletjump EVERYWHERE because it's fast
  • The fun'll start when they get their reward, and the journey itself is a painful, torturous slog
  • Burnout because of constant boring farming in a game that, by player choice, has no failstate
  • Fear of failure because it slows the grind down, so a player breaks the game so that there's no failure
  • More bulletpoints I'll try to keep this succinct

I'm saying an alternative (alternative, as in make a choice as desired) is Game Priority 1, Grind Priority 2, and so far (for me) it goes something like this;

  • When the reward doesn't drop, "Oh well, I had fun trying to get it, better luck next time."
  • Missions take ~10-15 minutes, and unique experiences can happen in those missions, and I welcome the chance to be saved by my Lich, or defend the Mobile Defense objective from certain death at the very last second
  • There's a lot to get; better accept that I'm not going to get everything on my own, I'll just vaguely play towards what I'd like, and if I really want it, there's options to skip the grind for many things, so I can focus on the game
  • I'll just keep Bulletjump in the back pocket for now, bring it out if I think it'll be a cooler thing to do than wall-climbing everywhere (so far, wall-climbing has won except for once or twice)
  • 🎶Got a new toy (Buzlok at the moment), time to play with it until I eventually get a different one🎵, then I get to choose whatever I feel like instead of shoving Buzlok to the side because it's not as efficient as, say, ...Whatever...the most efficient thing is. I have seriously not given two #*!%s for the efficiency discussion, so I'm drawing a blank.
  • Can't wait to get back into more Warframe!
  • Failure is what I strive to avoid, but not by overpowering force, but by walking the knife's edge where my decisions can make or break my success. I have failed so many missions, lost everything except the bonusless EXP, and I'm completely fine with it, since I chose to walk that fine line. If it gets too frustrating, I'd slap on my best gear and really teach those level 20s a lesson, but by then I'd wonder "What am I playing this game for again...?". And the game rewards me for not optimizing, on top of the fight that I just had fun in! I get all these new options that can let me play in different ways

Obviously this is a personal take on two approaches, and there's overlap (example: people who have fun with being absolutely overpowered will inevitably grind faster), but yeah.

I've seen players complain that they're bored, and if a player's bored, why are they making themselves bored? Far as I can tell, the answer is that they're valuing the grind over the game itself (or something about precious glued-in builds), which is like "That... doesn't sound all that fun".

So let me get this straight, and feel free to correct me if I am misinterpreting what you say. You dont understand why someone would complain about diversity while still engaging in content that is generally restrictive? Just because someone plays something, doesnt mean they think it is ideal.

 

As to your second point, that just diverts the responsibility into the player. Game balance sucks? That's the player's fault of course! Just remove all your mods if you are not having fun!

I'm sorry but it is not worth talking about in that case because literally all the game's problems are actually the players problem, and if you believe that then there is no reason to give feedback because the game is already perfect.

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