DE when are you going to nerf Wisp?

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, motorfirebox said:

Lots of stuff in Warframe is ridiculously, hilariously overpowered

Yup. I'm all for a big nerf wave to a number of things.

Reinstitute self-damage
Add Line of Sight to all abilities that currently bypass them (including explosions from weapons such as glaives)
Remove the exploit shield gating with corrupted dragon key + brief respite/augur set

Among others.

[quxier]

2 hours ago, Leqesai said:

3 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

 

Yup. I'm all for a big nerf wave to a number of things.

Nerf Yareli! I dare you! Haha

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, quxier said:

Nerf Yareli! I dare you! Haha

That's just it. Yareli is the new baseline. All other frames will be nerfed to be competitive with Yareli.

[L3512]

9 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Do Wisp mains actually mod her that way ? I know I didn't... But I'd be curious if someone thought it was worth it to use Growing Power + Energy Conversion + Pax Bolt... Perhaps even going as far as Slapping Protea's Dispenser on her aswell 😳 !!! Empower, and now power drain and of course a trusty Nidus specter.

Correct.

Minimum 500 power strength for motes with normal range and good duration.

Most I've ever played was at minimum (reverse calculation) 2.2k power strength and I thought to myself,

this is how wisp is meant to be.

[ScytodiDaedalus]

7 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Reinstitute self-damage

I'll take self-damage a thousand times over the very delayed stagger and fancy knockback animation that locks movement for ages.

Now talking about nerfing Wisp, the biggest problem for getting Wisp to be nerfed, even having the Max HP or HP regen nerfed is the heavy resistance people have against making the game "Less easy" than it already is, because apparently if she's op, ALL WARFRAMES need to be put to level or ALL OP WARFRAMES need to be nerfed and until that doesn't happen, "nobody cares". "Power creep is a problem, it's gonna happen and nobody can do anything about it."

Truth is, Wisp's heal and motes are easily OP in Survival and Defenses since for 75 energy at the start of each mission, motes(and their respective buffs) are permanently present for the remainder of a mission when no other Warframe is capable of having such possible uptime for such a small amount of energy.

I agree with the suggestion on which Motes could have a limited duration, probably 10 to 20 times the duration players can carry the buffs.

8 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Again, if you're sitting still such that Wisp doesn't need to recast her motes, the health mote is the absolute least OP thing your team is probably doing. Saryn and Mesa are wiping out entire map tiles,  Frost and Limbo are completely negating all damage to anyone near the objective, Vauban or Khora are soloing the entire mission, Nova is either putting all the mobs on ez mode or speeding up the rounds—I mean jeez, if you want to talk about upkeep, you have to balance Trin's energy costs against the fact that she generates infinite energy with her 2. Anytime you're sitting still in Warframe, the most pressing challenge isn't surviving, it's staying awake.

1. Saryn & Mesa's way of dealing Damage is literally ez mode, Why aim when you can jump at places press 4 and if you're Mesa, hold left mouse button and spin the camera around.
2. Frost & Limbo, I'm actually fine with them they protect objectives but defense missions are wave exterminates at this point, only thing they defend are excavations.
3. Vauban & Khora, am I the only one who absolutely hates how Vortex and Strangledome turn the mission into a search for the enemies stuck being pulled through walls nautical miles away from the center of these abilities?
4. Trin & Harrow. Honestly, I have no issue with Trin, Harrow or other Warframes having a particular ability loop to keep allies alive and generating energy, I believe Trin's way of giving energy is a bit effortless.

Now, the challenge in the game, aside from all of this is non-existent since a while now, I have no idea where's the so promised "end-game" supposed to be, first(?) it was Sorties, then Raids, then ESO, then Arbitrations, then Steel Path and so on. in all of this the game still has not done anything new from being a horde looter-shooter which only gets worse the more mods, arcanes and better weapons show up. The game needs a serious touch-up aside from Warframes that need a balance pass, however I think Warframe rebalancing is a top priority.

[Lutesque]

9 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

It's been an issue since before Vivergate, and DE has never managed to solve it.

I think DE needs to stop thinking like a F2P Developer just for two seconds if they want to fix these issues...

 

8 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Reinstitute self-damage

We never Had Self Damage in the first Place... What we had before was Self Annihilation 😱 !!!

8 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Add Line of Sight to all abilities that currently bypass them (including explosions from weapons such as glaives)
Remove the exploit shield gating with corrupted dragon key + brief respite/augur set

Il be down with all of these if you removed all Nullifying/Immunity type enemies aswell... Maybe...

1 hour ago, ScytodiDaedalus said:

3. Vauban & Khora, am I the only one who absolutely hates how Vortex and Strangledome turn the mission into a search for the enemies stuck being pulled through walls nautical miles away from the center of these abilities?

I don't know about Khora but in Booben's case it might have something to do with people giving Booben too much Range and only using Vortex (instead of both Bastille and Vortex)... Which is Understandable because Tether Coils aren't working the way their suppose to...

Actually I do have one thing to say about Khora... Specifically people who player her... Turns out some players still believe that the Dome itself is suppose to kill the Enemies so they never whip out to clear out the Trash.... Yeah... That's an issue....

 

1 hour ago, ScytodiDaedalus said:

4. Trin & Harrow. Honestly, I have no issue with Trin, Harrow or other Warframes having a particular ability loop to keep allies alive and generating energy, I believe Trin's way of giving energy is a bit effortless.

Trin's Loop is Boring though... Harry's Loop is Awesome !!!

 

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

We never Had Self Damage in the first Place... What we had before was Self Annihilation 😱 !!!

lol

 

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

Il be down with all of these if you removed all Nullifying/Immunity type enemies aswell... Maybe...

This would need to be addressed as well. Right now the aura enemies as well as nullifiers are excusable because of nuking options from players.

[quxier]

9 hours ago, Leqesai said:

That's just it. Yareli is the new baseline. All other frames will be nerfed to be competitive with Yareli.

I meant "nerf Yareli" not "to Yareli level". However you shouldn't take Yareli as baseline. Not because she is too weak. It's because she doesn't excel at anything and doesn't bring anything interesting (e.g. to have fun like Grendel with his ball - playing "pinball" with enemies could be fun).

[am0rtized]

At this point, I feel like I should be trying to collect these unnecessary nerf threads like Pokemon Gym Badges. How about DE works to fix the absolutely ungodly number of bugs infesting every single system in the game, instead of wasting their time making things weaker because someone arbitrarily decided they were overpowered?

Here's a little secret, people play Warframe not so they can get stuck in doorways as Yareli, but because they want to exercise their personal power fantasies. That could mean nuking roomfuls of enemies, running faster than everyone else, just plain never dying, or using any number of other completely broken mechanics.  If you nerf everything that's actually overpowered (not just the stuff you personally decided was too strong), people would stop playing because the game wouldn't be fun anymore.

In my opinion, the only time something warrants a nerf (or at least a change) is if it completely dominates the meta in virtually every part of the game. I can think of a few primary weapons of the explosive AoE variety that do this, but Wisp certainly does not.

[Lutesque]

8 minutes ago, am0rtized said:

At this point, I feel like I should be trying to collect these unnecessary nerf threads like Pokemon Gym Badges. How about DE works to fix the absolutely ungodly number of bugs infesting every single system in the game, instead of wasting their time making things weaker because someone arbitrarily decided they were overpowered?

That would be refreshing !!! 

 

[IMP_102]

On 2021-09-28 at 12:16 AM, Leqesai said:

Alright look. I love Wisp but it is really obvious she is completely overpowered. Specifically her motes.

So on a warframe with breach surge and literal invulnerability while in air, you pick her motes as the most broken ability?

[Yamazuki]

Wisp motes may be good, but that's not really all she has. She has multiple forms of pretty much never dying, making the HP mote [for herself] completely redundant as well as the shock one. Then there's her silly DPS potential despite being partly a support. If she had to be nerfed, it would make more sense to lower her dps potential, rather than her support potential.

It also makes no sense to focus on the low energy cost. Oberon's Renewal has 100% uptime unless an enemy deletes your energy bar, and doesn't have the drawback of needing to go back and pick them up, or having the Wisp recast them in another area; he only runs into energy issues if he tries to do anything else but maintain Renewal while having an str heavy build. Trinity has no issues with energy in regards to her heal due to being able to provide energy as a function, and she provides shield generation which is vastly superior to health generation in the overwhelming majority of situations.

There are other Warframes centered around protecting allies that also do a better job than Wisp does. Her only real strength there is she does a better job at keeping Sentinels and Companions alive, given the mote applies to Sentinels and for Companions using link mods they get two health bonuses.

Her only advantage over them is her base kit provides easy dps increase to weapons. Oberon requires multiple abilities to 100% armor strip to the point everything would be dead before he does, and his other weapon dps boost is tied to a radiation damage buff that takes up a mod slot, and Wisp even has her own damage increasing augment for herself. The alternatives that can increase dps either require many casts due to not armor stripping at a base level, or aren't popular outside of niche situations for nothing related to really being "bad".

People just gravitate towards what is convenient over what is actually strong. Otherwise, Inaros would be sitting at 0 usage. Even Wisp's actual potential is just completely thrown out the window, because as this thread proves, to most people playing she's nothing more than a mote bot...

[ScytodiDaedalus]

15 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Actually I do have one thing to say about Khora... Specifically people who player her... Turns out some players still believe that the Dome itself is suppose to kill the Enemies so they never whip out to clear out the Trash.... Yeah... That's an issue....

No wonder people just leave the Idle Carousel game playing.

[Leqesai]

10 hours ago, IMP_102 said:

So on a warframe with breach surge and literal invulnerability while in air, you pick her motes as the most broken ability?

"literal invunerability while in air"

What? You mean her invisibility? She is not invulnerable while invis is she? 

[quxier]

6 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

"literal invunerability while in air"

What? You mean her invisibility? She is not invulnerable while invis is she? 

She isn't immortal (e.g. AoE attack still could harm her) but enemies won't look for her. That means, with careful playing, she is immortal.

However just being immortal doesn't mean that you can beat a game. IMP seems to forget that.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

"literal invunerability while in air"

What? You mean her invisibility? She is not invulnerable while invis is she? 

She's not, but it's dang near a cheat code level passive. She's invisible for a split second while landing too, so you can stay invisible for indefinitely if you hop around a level. It's practically like her 5th ability for no energy cost. 

[Leqesai]

47 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

She's not, but it's dang near a cheat code level passive. She's invisible for a split second while landing too, so you can stay invisible for indefinitely if you hop around a level. It's practically like her 5th ability for no energy cost. 

Yep. But it isn't invulnerability. You can still get iced by AOE or hazards (or stray bullets if you are between an enemy and a player). I agree that it is really great as far as passives go but it isn't technically invulnerability.

[Colyeses]

On 2021-09-29 at 2:34 AM, Leqesai said:

That's just it. Yareli is the new baseline. All other frames will be nerfed to be competitive with Yareli.

You'd have to rename the game to 'gun', because Warframes would be purely cosmetic at that point.

[selig_fay]

I don't think it's necessary to nerf Wisp. She's good as she is. All her problems actually come from the fact that the enemies do not know how to deal with invisible warframes, and the weapons are now extremely strong.

Well, maybe we can fix a bug where Wisp doesn't reveal itself when using passive with melee weapons, but I don't think many people use this.

[cute_moth.npc]

I almost want it because the high power strength mote build Wisps that are popular are actually detrimental and annoying to play with when they interfere with all of your muscle memory on already fast frames.

Built like that she is down there with Limbo in an Arbitration or Slowva in a Defense for stuff that will just make me quit and find a different squad.

[quxier]

7 hours ago, selig_fay said:

Well, maybe we can fix a bug where Wisp doesn't reveal itself when using passive with melee weapons, but I don't think many people use this.

Where this bug changes some action into very useful feature?

• Aerial attacks: with aerial attacks are small and harder to do. There is one mod that increases range (+2m afair) but I still haven't found it useful. There is still no deimos aerial mod set AND  they haven't answered question about it so... I don't think it will be soon.
• Slam + rolls + jump (to be invisible): is there bug somewhere?
• Exodia contagion or Vitrica: I've only tried Vitrica. So you get free 1-2 seconds of invisibility.... and? Enemies are either glassed or knocked/death during those few seconds of bug.

It might be a bug but it has 0 impact on actual gamplay. Am I missing something?

 

[selig_fay]

11 hours ago, quxier said:

Where this bug changes some action into very useful feature?

• Aerial attacks: with aerial attacks are small and harder to do. There is one mod that increases range (+2m afair) but I still haven't found it useful. There is still no deimos aerial mod set AND they haven't answered question about it so... I don't think it will be soon.
• Slam + rolls + jump (to be invisible): is there bug somewhere?
• Exodia contagion or Vitrica: I've only tried Vitrica. So you get free 1-2 seconds of invisibility.... and? Enemies are either glassed or knocked/death during those few seconds of bug.

It might be a bug but it has 0 impact on actual gamplay. Am I missing something?

You can set -100% gravity and increase the duration of aimglide to make attacks near the ground. But you're right, it's hard to implement, so I don't see a problem here when you can just press 2 or 3.

[George_PPS]

On 2021-09-27 at 3:16 PM, Leqesai said:

Alright look. I love Wisp but it is really obvious she is completely overpowered. Specifically her motes. They are very low energy cost and last indefinitely once placed (until replaced). This, coupled with the fact that they give incredible buffs to health+health regen, speed and crowd control are simply ridiculous. Wisp completely negates any other healing frame.

So I hate to call for nerfs, but honestly DE when are you going to bring her down to a reasonable level. The only real change that is needed is to make her deployable motes have a duration attached to them instead of being infinite duration. I don't think the efficacy of her motes should be touched but there should be a bit more cost associated with such powerful buffs.

When are you going to stop playing your favorite frames or weapons because they are too good? I don’t even play Wisp and it’s not okay to suggest anything like this!!! I’d definitely prefer my teammates to use Wisp to provide valuable buffs!!

[Tesseract7777]

On 2021-09-27 at 6:16 PM, Leqesai said:

Wisp completely negates any other healing frame.

Cause healing without damage reduction is super op in Warframe right? 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Cause healing without damage reduction is super op in Warframe right? 

To play devils advocate, there are many levels and situations where flat hp and regen is more then enough.