The new Helminth's abilities swapping change

[AJAL8000]

Here's the new change they made when you moved the Mod Config. of place when he has an ability changed by Helminth.

• Cita

  When dragging around Mod Configs to swap (i.e Swapping Mod Config A to Config B), we now swap applied Helminth abilities as well to support the Modding of a given Helminth choice. 

The problem for me is that I used the same Ability Force build to use it with 2 different powers, one with Mirage (To make "Profit-Taker") and one with Oberon (To make Tridolons), and I just switched places the Mod Config. as suited me and had an extra Mod.Config space that I could use for another build. (This is just one case, but there are going to be more cases like this in my builds)

Now this is not possible, and most likely I will have to create the same Warframe 2 times (something I want to avoid), because it simply does not fit all the builds that I had.

This change made me feel quite bad, because I really did not see this change necessary and, by and by, today was not the best of my days either.

How difficult was it to give the option of asking "Do you want to keep Helminth's power in place?" when you move the Mod Config.?

If they don't want to do that, it would be great if they at least gave more slots of Mod Config. to do more builds.

I would really love for them to make that change soon, at this point it would make me depressed that I have to wait months or years for it to occur to them.

[ZeroX4]

6 minutes ago, AJAL8000 said:

Here's the new change they made when you moved the Mod Config. of place when he has an ability changed by Helminth.

•  

The problem for me is that I used the same Ability Force build to use it with 2 different powers, one with Mirage (To make "Profit-Taker") and one with Oberon (To make Tridolons), and I just switched places the Mod Config. as suited me and had an extra Mod.Config space that I could use for another build. (This is just one case, but there are going to be more cases like this in my builds)

Now this is not possible, and most likely I will have to create the same Warframe 2 times (something I want to avoid), because it simply does not fit all the builds that I had.

This change made me feel quite bad, because I really did not see this change necessary and, by and by, today was not the best of my days either.

How difficult was it to give the option of asking "Do you want to keep Helminth's power in place?" when you move the Mod Config.?

If they don't want to do that, it would be great if they at least gave more slots of Mod Config. to do more builds.

I would really love for them to make that change soon, at this point it would make me depressed that I have to wait months or years for it to occur to them.

Wait im not sure if i understand you? Actually i think i dont understand here something
You want to say that because subsumed abilities now swap with mod configs (like they should since they are bound to mod configs) you will need now 2 copies of same warframe?

If you could make additional config whats the purpose of getting 2nd frame?
 

[AJAL8000]

hace 5 minutos, ZeroX4 dijo:

Wait im not sure if i understand you? Actually i think i dont understand here something
You want to say that because subsumed abilities now swap with mod configs (like they should since they are bound to mod configs) you will need now 2 copies of same warframe?

If you could make additional config whats the purpose of getting 2nd frame?
 

They only let you buy 3 more (6 in total)

I have all 6 being used and everything just fit. Now that I can't move the Mod Config without moving Helminth's abilities, not all configurations fit into the same Warframe anymore. (As I explained before, if I had the same Mod Config. to use it with 2 different powers in the same Warframe, it was enough to move it and thus I save a space to use it in something else)

It is a bit difficult to understand but the real problem that happens to me now is that I need 2 times the same Warframe, unless they add more spaces than just 6 slots or give the option to keep the power in place or not. 

(Probably later I will make a picture that better explains the situation, but the problem does exist)

[ZeroX4]

9 minutes ago, AJAL8000 said:

They only let you buy 3 more (6 in total)

I have all 6 being used and everything just fit. Now that I can't move the Mod Config without moving Helminth's abilities, not all configurations fit into the same Warframe anymore. (As I explained before, if I had the same Mod Config. to use it with 2 different powers in the same Warframe, it was enough to move it and thus I save a space to use it in something else)

It is a bit difficult to understand but the real problem that happens to me now is that I need 2 times the same Warframe, unless they add more spaces than just 6 slots or give the option to keep the power in place or not. 

(Probably later I will make a picture that better explains the situation, but the problem does exist)

No its not i never needed more than 5 configs but i do understand your struggle
When you put it this way it does feel limiting and there is no reason to justify it at its current state
But i think you approach it from wrong persepctive

Dont ask for option to transfer subsumed ability or not per config but for more configs and problem would be easily solved

[AJAL8000]

hace 3 minutos, ZeroX4 dijo:

No its not i never needed more than 5 configs but i do understand your struggle
When you put it this way it does feel limiting and there is no reason to justify it at its current state
But i think you approach it from wrong persepctive

Dont ask for option to transfer subsumed ability or not per config but for more configs and problem would be easily solved

I mean, it is a problem if you want to get the most potential you can with your favorite Warframe, just limiting it to 6 slots is pretty bad (more with the huge variety of existing builds). And yes, as I said, the problem is easily solved by asking the question "Do you want to keep Helminth's ability in place?" or simply adding more Slots so that this problem does not exist.

[ZeroX4]

1 minute ago, AJAL8000 said:

I mean, it is a problem if you want to get the most potential you can with your favorite Warframe, just limiting it to 6 slots is pretty bad (more with the huge variety of existing builds). And yes, as I said, the problem is easily solved by asking the question "Do you want to keep Helminth's ability in place?" or simply adding more Slots so that this problem does not exist.

And i say ask for option to purchase more config slots
And your problem is solved very easily

[lukinu_u]

I was bothered by the swap being tied to config as well at first, but ended up using it to swap abilities from same mod setup as well.

A solution that also prevent the fact buying new config slot = more helmith abilities on a same frame, would be to treat helminth abilities as a mods/arcane and give them their own unique slot. You would still need to unlock them separetely for each frame, but it would make the system more modular and easy to swap once you took the time to unlock all abilities you want for a choosen frame.

[T-Shark69]

I don't like this change either for the same reasons listead above. It was easy to swap configs for certain abilities as it was before.

[FiveN9ne]

The change has zero reasons to exist. If i have roar instead of ability 1 on config A, and i move it to config B, i now have roar on ability 1 on config B. Virtually zero change except now it's config B instead of A. This doesn't change anything or do anything practical. Before that, you could use different layout on config B, then just pop roar from config A and keep config B mods. It had a purpose. Now it does absolutely nothing.

[SneakyErvin]

I think the Helminth skill should be its own config if they want configs to have the option to swap helminth skills aswell.

6 config slots would result in 6 helminth configs and 6 mod configs that you can combine as you see fit.

[Hypernaut1]

This change is how I assumed it worked at first, but then I got used the previous system for switching mod configs and it made sense  

I don't know why they changed it. The previous way had utility. 

Kind of weird that this was someone priority to "fix" 

[Lutesque]

I use a controller so I don't actually understand what this means... You can't drag anything with the Controller 😱

[Berzerkules]

I like the change. 

I have all 6 configs on most frames and they have different helminth abilities. I also have multiple copies of the frames I enjoy playing because I can't fit all the builds I want on a single frame due to mismatching polarities. Many frames have a config just for testing helminth abilities and another with thermal sunder or rest/rage for when/if I want to add forma. 

The problem for me is I have the forma and test config in random places, I want my configs organized from favorite or most played to least played or test/forma. Before I would have to remove helminth ability on 2 configs and then add helminth abilities to the configs I wanted. It wasted resources and time. 

It sucks for people that dislike the change but it's exactly what I wanted since helminth became a thing. It would be preferable if there was an option to move mods and abilities or just move mods. It would be obnoxious to click confirmation every time but at least everyone would have the option to rearrange their configs how they wanted. 

[FiveN9ne]

10 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

I like the change. 

I have all 6 configs on most frames and they have different helminth abilities. I also have multiple copies of the frames I enjoy playing because I can't fit all the builds I want on a single frame due to mismatching polarities. Many frames have a config just for testing helminth abilities and another with thermal sunder or rest/rage for when/if I want to add forma. 

The problem for me is I have the forma and test config in random places, I want my configs organized from favorite or most played to least played or test/forma. Before I would have to remove helminth ability on 2 configs and then add helminth abilities to the configs I wanted. It wasted resources and time. 

It sucks for people that dislike the change but it's exactly what I wanted since helminth became a thing. It would be preferable if there was an option to move mods and abilities or just move mods. It would be obnoxious to click confirmation every time but at least everyone would have the option to rearrange their configs how they wanted. 

So you'd rather have the ability to change config order while mods and abilities stay the same (which is what you should do when you first make the builds), rather than have the ability to apply a different mod config to an existing ability?? Visual vs practical you choose visual? To each their own i suppose..

[Berzerkules]

1 hour ago, FiveN9ne said:

So you'd rather have the ability to change config order while mods and abilities stay the same (which is what you should do when you first make the builds), rather than have the ability to apply a different mod config to an existing ability?? Visual vs practical you choose visual? To each their own i suppose..

It's hard to know what you are going to like or what's going to work when you test over a dozen helminth abilities on a frame. So, yes I'd rather be able to reorganize my configs. It's also practical for me to have the build I use most in the first config.

Like I have 3 different wisps, one for high strength, one for endurance and one for testing and builds I liked that wouldn't fit on the other 2. I normally use my endurance wisp but My high strength one I use most often in eso ranking weapons so I want roar as my first config. This way I can run my wisp loadout and swap to my high strength wisp and not have to go through configs to choose roar.

Or my preference changes over time. I used ensnare wisp for endurance but when epitaph came out I realized that I could get heat and cold status effects on a group of enemies in a single shot, if I cast cold thermal sunder I can pull enemies to me and freeze them to the ground in a single cast. That became my new favorite endurance build and I want it in the first config. 

It's more convenient for me to be able to rearrange the order of configs because I have never dragged a config over to swap a build using the same helminth ability. 

[FiveN9ne]

I mean ok. That's comparing literally 2 clicks vs a whole other functional possibility. Like for example, i have a dispensary nuke mirage, and also a roar nuke mirage, but they're not the same build. I used to be able to just move the config of dispensary to roar build and use the dispensary build with roar. Now i would have to change all the mods manually if i wanted to do that.

[Lutesque]

20 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

 

It's more convenient for me to be able to rearrange the order of configs because I have never dragged a config over to swap a build using the same helminth ability

I still don't get this Dragging thing.... Or what actually changed... What has me worried. 😭

 

[Berzerkules]

5 hours ago, Lutesque said:

I still don't get this Dragging thing.... Or what actually changed... What has me worried. 😭

 

I use a controller too. If you hold X on PS controller you can drag your configs to any other slot. Before it just moved the mods and now it moves the mods and the helminth ability. 

On 2021-11-13 at 2:45 PM, FiveN9ne said:

I mean ok. That's comparing literally 2 clicks vs a whole other functional possibility. Like for example, i have a dispensary nuke mirage, and also a roar nuke mirage, but they're not the same build. I used to be able to just move the config of dispensary to roar build and use the dispensary build with roar. Now i would have to change all the mods manually if i wanted to do that.

Yes, and before I had to remove two helminth abilities then add them back onto frame and then move builds. That took time and wasted resources, 

A work around for you would be to link both configs in chat and then apply them to the configs you want. You can set to invite only and have a personal chat tab so you don't bother other people with linked configs. It's more work but probably faster than manually swapping mods and it would preserve both unique mod configs.

We can both complain who has/had it worse or maybe make a feed back thread with what I suggested in my first post on this thread. 

On 2021-11-13 at 2:05 AM, Berzerkules said:

It would be preferable if there was an option to move mods and abilities or just move mods. It would be obnoxious to click confirmation every time but at least everyone would have the option to rearrange their configs how they wanted. 

 

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

I use a controller too. If you hold X on PS controller you can drag your configs to any other slot. Before it just moved the mods and now it moves the mods and the helminth ability. 

Oh... That actually sounds like a good thing... Doesn't it ? 🤔

[sitfesz]

Quote

When dragging around Mod Configs to swap (i.e Swapping Mod Config A to Config B), we now swap applied Helminth abilities as well to support the Modding of a given Helminth choice. 

So the mod configs (A B C) have the helminth abilities as they did previously, but now if you switch A and B, you don't only switch the mods, you switch the helminth abilities too.

I was waiting for this change, because when I switched a primary loadout (which is A, the default build when you equip a warframe to a loadout), I had to resubsume the abilities only to have my base build and abilities on A, and the other build and abilities on B.

I don't understand the problem, because now it lets you change the order of your whole build and it doesn't miss out on the subsumed ability.

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, sitfesz said:

 

I don't understand the problem, because now it lets you change the order of your whole build and it doesn't miss out on the subsumed ability

I understand exactly what his problem now that I understand....

Basically he wants to have Multiple Configs based around the Same Helminth Ability.... And it just so happens that the config he wants happens to match the config for another ability.... So anytime he wants to alter his Config for the same Helminth Ability he just Drags the config from a Different Helminth Ability on top of it... Thus it changes the Config without changing the Helminth Ability....

Apparently now you can do that anymore....

Me thinks DE figured out players were using this to skip out on buying more Config Slots and Duplicate Warframe's so they "Fixed" It to stop players from doing that.

[sitfesz]

7 hours ago, Lutesque said:

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Doesn't sound logical to me, because putting a subsumed ability on multiple config slots is a solution to this. Then there is no need to switch mods.

[coalaquala]

I personally hope they either undo this change or add the option to disable it.

Practically all of my mod configurations were based around the old system, and now I have to spend a good minute remodding every time I want to change Helminth abilities. I think the new system limits options more than anything

[FiveN9ne]

9 hours ago, sitfesz said:

Doesn't sound logical to me, because putting a subsumed ability on multiple config slots is a solution to this. Then there is no need to switch mods.

No that's not what this is. It's not 1 subsumed ability on 2 configs. It's multiple subsumes across multiple builds. If you have 6 builds, and lets say breach surge on A. Moving A to any of the other 5 mod configs lets you use a variation of the breach surge build (depending on how you design it and how compatible it is with the build). But it was a possibility. You could interchange mod configs with different subsumes based on need. Maybe one day you don't need efficiency because you have a team that has energy providers, maybe you want higher efficiency. It allowed you not to have to manually change the entire build but just swap configs on the fly and jump in. When you're finished, you just swap it back. But now you are locked to 1 subsume and 1 mod layout unless you want to manually rearrange the entire build, which i do not.

[Lutesque]

20 hours ago, sitfesz said:

Doesn't sound logical to me, because putting a subsumed ability on multiple config slots is a solution to this. Then there is no need to switch mods.

It's perfectly logical when you factor in that you can only have 6 Config Slots in Total for any piece of Equipment.... Ergo to go above that number you would have to make a new Warframe... More Slots More Potatoes.... More Money in DE's Pocket...