An Advice to users who like to post their profile online via images or links (RMT related)

[KIREEK]

Note: RMT (Real Money Trading) or account selling breaks the Terms of service, don't do it and never interact with those that do, this topic is an explanation on what can happen even if you don't interact with them at all.

I will try to keep things brief.

Hello everyone, some of you likely know me due to a certain weapon BP that i sell in trade chat, i am that guy but that's not why i'm here now. Pls take this with some seriousness.
Everynow and then me (and potentially other players) take our time and we check out the latest trends in RMT websites, you know those where you can buy cheap platinum or buy entire accounts, even Wartrade subreddit had those topics at one point.

Certain accounts are really apreciated by sellers and resellers, namely founder accounts, because they have more monetary value compared to your average "MR31 GOD LIKE account", users will go to great lengths to get their hands on one even if it's low MR and in the middle there will be plenty of scammers (buying or selling).
Now usually scammers will scam other scammers (hilarious really) and nothing happens to the average player, but recently a founder found himself a target and he was suspended without actually doing anything close to RMT, in fact, users that do RMT or sell accounts will do their best to keep everything concealed, so i'm sure the user i talked to didn't do anything wrong, but he was punished nontheless.

Why is this?

Users that sell accounts have realized shortcuts to gain that cash from buyers (the entire point is always to sell, never to buy as that is super risky), they don't care about any sort of bans that happen afterwards, if they can post, that's enough.
Some grind accounts to sell, others buy the accounts for peanuts and sell for more later on, some hijack accounts by checking compromised passwords, but some users realized they can sell one account multiple times or even an account they don't own

And how can they do this?
They seek out videos or images that contain stuff only the owner can provide, they want to trick the buyer, so having a large collection of images or a decent video enables them to sieze the content and make it their own, they also try to do this quickly before other scammers do the same, images must be new so that no one recognizes the images, so googling for founder profile pictures is not going to work because everyone will recognize the content.
Your profile, your stats profile and your arsenal for example are unique to you, so try to avoid posting such images online and don't make large inventory videos and post on youtube, or if you do, make the video private.
For example, if a clan requires you to post a profile screenshot to verify that you are indeed a certain mastery as opposed to checking themselves, then beware because anyone with access can seize it.
Buyers often request more images, like rivens, arcanes, weapons,.... so sellers often seek out users with a large image collections or lengthy videos, they want to avoid questions that require them to login as that's something they can't do.

A founder recently was being messaged by multiple users claiming that he didn't sell the account to the buyers, so, the users, upset by this decided to report the topic and provided the account proof unique to the owner. Sort of "oh you didn't sell it to me? i'll report to support instead", not knowing that the topic creator is immune to any backlash, it's not his account.
Needless to say the account was banned. Support, when they have such evidence, they don't wait for IP changes, hardware ID changes or discord id changes (yes, they log that aswell), they issue a ban that you are unlikely to recover, because only the owner can take such pictures or videos.

In the end, the scammer sold the account (that he didn't own) multiple times via non refundable ways or bitcoin, the buyers got nothing and the founder got a ban.
This is an extremely rare case, usually buyers figure out photoshoped images, googled images (aka re-used content), they trick the seller into providing something that isn't covered but in this case, with a video showcasing everything it had everything to convince the buyers it was legit.
I really don't know how a user can overcome this, that's why i'm posting this here, if anyone decides to search for info, they may come across this topic.

[vanaukas]

8 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Needless to say the account was banned. Support, when they have such evidence, they don't wait for IP changes, hardware ID changes or discord id changes (yes, they log that aswell), they issue a ban that you are unlikely to recover, because only the owner can take such pictures or videos.

In the end, the scammer sold the account (that he didn't own) multiple times via non refundable ways or bitcoin, the buyers got nothing and the founder got a ban.
This is an extremely rare case, usually buyers figure out photoshoped images, googled images (aka re-used content), they trick the seller into providing something that isn't covered but in this case, with a video showcasing everything it had everything to convince the buyers it was legit.
I really don't know how a user can overcome this, that's why i'm posting this here, if anyone decides to search for info, they may come across this topic.

This is a new low for support service, what the hell is the point for appealing bans then? 

[KIREEK]

7 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

This is a new low for support service, what the hell is the point for appealing bans then? 

The thing is, they assume it was you who made the topic and posted the proof, you receive the usual "this can't be undone", "it's unreversible" "you can't appeal",......

This is one of the things that in my mind could only happen in theory, someone could do this, normally the RMT topics with content that doesn't belong to them or have banned accounts are so simple that they start to fall appart once any question is made or anyone recognizes the pictures or suspects photoshop, but in this case, someone targeted a founder with a recent video showcasing the entire inventory.

[vanaukas]

7 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

The thing is, they assume it was you who made the topic and posted the proof, you receive the usual "this can't be undone", "it's unreversible" "you can't appeal",......

This is one of the things that in my mind could only happen in theory, someone could do this, normally the RMT topics with content that doesn't belong to them or have banned accounts are so simple that they start to fall appart once any question is made or anyone recognizes the pictures or suspects photoshop, but in this case, someone targeted a founder with a recent video showcasing the entire inventory.

But that video exist and it should, at least, be considereded by support... In any case, thank you', I'll never, ever post videos with my inventory visible.

[ZeroX4]

58 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Note: RMT or account selling breaks the Terms of service, don't do it and never interact with those that do, this topic is an explanation on what can happen even if you don't interact with them at all.

I will try to keep things brief.

Hello everyone, some of you likely know me due to a certain weapon BP that i sell in trade chat, i am that guy but that's not why i'm here now. Pls take this with some seriousness.
Everynow and then me (and potentially other players) take our time and we check out the latest trends in RMT websites, you know those where you can buy cheap platinum or buy entire accounts, even Wartrade subreddit had those topics at one point.

Certain accounts are really apreciated by sellers and resellers, namely founder accounts, because they have more monetary value compared to your average "MR31 GOD LIKE account", users will go to great lengths to get their hands on one even if it's low MR and in the middle there will be plenty of scammers (buying or selling).
Now usually scammers will scam other scammers (hilarious really) and nothing happens to the average player, but recently a founder found himself a target and he was suspended without actually doing anything close to RMT, in fact, users that do RMT or sell accounts will do their best to keep everything concealed, so i'm sure the user i talked to didn't do anything wrong, but he was punished nontheless.

Why is this?

Users that sell accounts have realized shortcuts to gain that cash from buyers (the entire point is always to sell, never to buy as that is super risky), they don't care about any sort of bans that happen afterwards, if they can post, that's enough.
Some grind accounts to sell, others buy the accounts for peanuts and sell for more later on, some hijack accounts by checking compromised passwords, but some users realized they can sell one account multiple times or even an account they don't own

And how can they do this?
They seek out videos or images that contain stuff only the owner can provide, they want to trick the buyer, so having a large collection of images or a decent video enables them to sieze the content and make it their own, they also try to do this quickly before other scammers do the same, images must be new so that no one recognizes the images, so googling for founder profile pictures is not going to work because everyone will recognize the content.
Your profile, your stats profile and your arsenal for example are unique to you, so try to avoid posting such images online and don't make large inventory videos and post on youtube, or if you do, make the video private.
For example, if a clan requires you to post a profile screenshot to verify that you are indeed a certain mastery as opposed to checking themselves, then beware because anyone with access can seize it.
Buyers often request more images, like rivens, arcanes, weapons,.... so sellers often seek out users with a large image collections or lengthy videos, they want to avoid questions that require them to login as that's something they can't do.

A founder recently was being messaged by multiple users claiming that he didn't sell the account to the buyers, so, the users, upset by this decided to report the topic and provided the account proof unique to the owner. Sort of "oh you didn't sell it to me? i'll report to support instead", not knowing that the topic creator is immune to any backlash, it's not his account.
Needless to say the account was banned. Support, when they have such evidence, they don't wait for IP changes, hardware ID changes or discord id changes (yes, they log that aswell), they issue a ban that you are unlikely to recover, because only the owner can take such pictures or videos.

In the end, the scammer sold the account (that he didn't own) multiple times via non refundable ways or bitcoin, the buyers got nothing and the founder got a ban.
This is an extremely rare case, usually buyers figure out photoshoped images, googled images (aka re-used content), they trick the seller into providing something that isn't covered but in this case, with a video showcasing everything it had everything to convince the buyers it was legit.
I really don't know how a user can overcome this, that's why i'm posting this here, if anyone decides to search for info, they may come across this topic.

I read trough ur wall of text and still i have no idea what RMT is
And if you care to reply me you made another mistake
Just edit your OP with what RMT is

By context RMT = sites that lists stuff for sell from games which should not be traded?

[vanaukas]

16 minutes ago, ZeroX4 said:

I read trough ur wall of text and still i have no idea what RMT is
And if you care to reply me you made another mistake
Just edit your OP with what RMT is

By context RMT = sites that lists stuff for sell from games which should not be traded?

Real Money Trade/ing

[BiancaRoughfin]

I had a puppet account approached me through forum Private message once saying "they" had interest in my account and showing a discord link to contact them if i was interested.
I quickly forwarded the message on a screenshot to support which hopefully they managed to investigate and catch some account that person used in-game for illegal RMT.

I have zero respect for anyone in any game that plays on a purchased account as they didnt go through the effort of grinding and leveling it.

I really wish Support had a revamp, i have been feeling like they have been very unprofessional lately to the point some dont even know how the games mechanics work and others take on fake/mass reports against players seriously without a proper investigation, such as it happened with a Russian player a few months ago that was targetted by a rival clan and got banned and said fellow founder on this topic.

[ZeroX4]

2 hours ago, KIREEK said:

Note: RMT (Real Money Trading) or account selling breaks the Terms of service, don't do it and never interact with those that do, this topic is an explanation on what can happen even if you don't interact with them at all.

I will try to keep things brief.

Hello everyone, some of you likely know me due to a certain weapon BP that i sell in trade chat, i am that guy but that's not why i'm here now. Pls take this with some seriousness.
Everynow and then me (and potentially other players) take our time and we check out the latest trends in RMT websites, you know those where you can buy cheap platinum or buy entire accounts, even Wartrade subreddit had those topics at one point.

Certain accounts are really apreciated by sellers and resellers, namely founder accounts, because they have more monetary value compared to your average "MR31 GOD LIKE account", users will go to great lengths to get their hands on one even if it's low MR and in the middle there will be plenty of scammers (buying or selling).
Now usually scammers will scam other scammers (hilarious really) and nothing happens to the average player, but recently a founder found himself a target and he was suspended without actually doing anything close to RMT, in fact, users that do RMT or sell accounts will do their best to keep everything concealed, so i'm sure the user i talked to didn't do anything wrong, but he was punished nontheless.

Why is this?

Users that sell accounts have realized shortcuts to gain that cash from buyers (the entire point is always to sell, never to buy as that is super risky), they don't care about any sort of bans that happen afterwards, if they can post, that's enough.
Some grind accounts to sell, others buy the accounts for peanuts and sell for more later on, some hijack accounts by checking compromised passwords, but some users realized they can sell one account multiple times or even an account they don't own

And how can they do this?
They seek out videos or images that contain stuff only the owner can provide, they want to trick the buyer, so having a large collection of images or a decent video enables them to sieze the content and make it their own, they also try to do this quickly before other scammers do the same, images must be new so that no one recognizes the images, so googling for founder profile pictures is not going to work because everyone will recognize the content.
Your profile, your stats profile and your arsenal for example are unique to you, so try to avoid posting such images online and don't make large inventory videos and post on youtube, or if you do, make the video private.
For example, if a clan requires you to post a profile screenshot to verify that you are indeed a certain mastery as opposed to checking themselves, then beware because anyone with access can seize it.
Buyers often request more images, like rivens, arcanes, weapons,.... so sellers often seek out users with a large image collections or lengthy videos, they want to avoid questions that require them to login as that's something they can't do.

A founder recently was being messaged by multiple users claiming that he didn't sell the account to the buyers, so, the users, upset by this decided to report the topic and provided the account proof unique to the owner. Sort of "oh you didn't sell it to me? i'll report to support instead", not knowing that the topic creator is immune to any backlash, it's not his account.
Needless to say the account was banned. Support, when they have such evidence, they don't wait for IP changes, hardware ID changes or discord id changes (yes, they log that aswell), they issue a ban that you are unlikely to recover, because only the owner can take such pictures or videos.

In the end, the scammer sold the account (that he didn't own) multiple times via non refundable ways or bitcoin, the buyers got nothing and the founder got a ban.
This is an extremely rare case, usually buyers figure out photoshoped images, googled images (aka re-used content), they trick the seller into providing something that isn't covered but in this case, with a video showcasing everything it had everything to convince the buyers it was legit.
I really don't know how a user can overcome this, that's why i'm posting this here, if anyone decides to search for info, they may come across this topic.

 

53 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

Real Money Trade/ing

Perrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrfecto
Now it makes much more sense than with what i came up with

[Lutesque]

The one thing I took away from all this is... Wow... Is Warframe's Grind really that bad 🤔 ?

Also I post Exclusively on Steam and Here ... Does that mean I'm at Risk ,😱 ?

[Felsagger]

5 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

The one thing I took away from all this is... Wow... Is Warframe's Grind really that bad 🤔 ?

Also I post Exclusively on Steam and Here ... Does that mean I'm at Risk ,😱 ?

we need to review here what are the specific terms of agreement. 

What would happen if I want to give for free my account with all the assets? 

What would happen if I want to sell such account to another person? 

If the terms of agreements has specific rules for these. I would really want to know. It would be very educational to know this information. It would be a benefit to players making them aware against scammers and illicit practices. 

[KIREEK]

23 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

 

Also I post Exclusively on Steam and Here ... Does that mean I'm at Risk ,😱 ?

A risk, yes, but usually they never target content that isn't profitable or content that isn't solid.

Even if they extract a few pictures, a single request like "show me the railjack stats" can ruin the entire thing, they will likely stall and delay because they can't retrieve the stuff, they can only show what they have.

This was an extreme case because the user made an inventory video detailing everything, being a founder made him a target.

4 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

I quickly forwarded the message on a screenshot to support which hopefully they managed to investigate and catch some account that person used in-game for illegal RMT.

 

That is the right procedure.

I've had my share of situations where discord moderators simply ban users trying to do this sort of rmt activity. Which creates 2 problems:

• user doesn't stop the activity, so you solved nothing
• user is now unsearchable in discord, so if he mentioned his IGN, you can't use discord search function for his posts

So yes, moderators actually help RMT users remaining hidden, this is unintentional, it's discord privacy kicking in, but one way to combat it is as you said to report the activity.

Sugestion for discord moderators, if you care enough to do more effort than the "right click > ban user from server", then do the following:

1. Mute user and make him stay in server
2. find content that he posted containing his IGN before he leaves the server or deletes account
3. report to support with evidence so they can be on the lookout
4. remove user from server

"Can't i just do the minimal effort and remove him from server?"
Yes, minimal effort gives minimal results

16 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

we need to review here what are the specific terms of agreement. 

What would happen if I want to give for free my account with all the assets? 

What would happen if I want to sell such account to another person? 

If the terms of agreements has specific rules for these. I would really want to know. It would be very educational to know this information. It would be a benefit to players making them aware against scammers and illicit practices. 

Your account can only be played by the original creator, nobody else can play. You need special permission from DE to do that and yes, there are cases where they do that, either during a stream or when retrieving fashion for them to use on promotional content.
They lend you an account to play the game, it's never yours, you can't make the decision of who else can play in your account

[Lutesque]

8 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

A risk, yes, but usually they never target content that isn't profitable or content that isn't solid.

Even if they extract a few pictures, a single request like "show me the railjack stats" can ruin the entire thing, they will likely stall and delay because they can't retrieve the stuff, they can only show what they have.

This was an extreme case because the user made an inventory video detailing everything, being a founder made him a target.

I see.... I'm still worried though.... I mean Support was nice to me before but I've heard horror Stories of things going in the opposite Direction 😱....

 

[Felsagger]

22 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Your account can only be played by the original creator, nobody else can play.

You need special permission from DE to do that and yes, there are cases where they do that, either during a stream or when retrieving fashion for them to use on promotional content.

They lend you an account to play the game, it's never yours, you can't make the decision of who else can play in your account

Thank you so much for such valuable information. 

The only right that I have is that I can only play with my account and no one else. I can't sell or throw away. Seems fair. 

But. It's very scary this fact. It implies a lot of things. So in other words I don't have the game even if I am an MR 30 and purchased lots of assets for the game. 

IT IS SCARY. 

[Tesseract7777]

7 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Thank you so much for such valuable information. 

The only right that I have is that I can only play with my account and no one else. I can't sell or throw away. Seems fair. 

But. It's very scary this fact. It implies a lot of things. So in other words I don't have the game even if I am an MR 30 and purchased lots of assets for the game. 

IT IS SCARY. 

A lot of video games have a clause like this. 

Now, if someone with a lot of money, who had spent a lot of money in game, decided to actually go to court over this S#&$... I am not sure how well most of the stuff in the EULA would actually hold up.

But unless someone is a serious high roller, they are not going to end up in a situation where it is anything more than "all I can afford to do is cut my losses" so games like this almost never end up in court over stuff like this, as support usually does prioritize real big spenders and help them out of situations when they can, cause they want them to keep spending.

But most games do have clauses like this. Doesn't matter if you paid a bunch of real money into the game, DE's EULA says they can suspend your account permanently, at any time, for ANY REASON. Not just for selling your own account, which should belong to you, but for ANY REASON. 

Not "you have to do something wrong", but for any reason they feel like coming up with. 

It's nuts, but these kinds of predatory EULA's are industry standard practice so it is far more than just DE who deserves criticism for this kind of practice. 

[Felsagger]

4 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

A lot of video games have a clause like this. 

But most games do have clauses like this. Doesn't matter if you paid a bunch of real money into the game, DE's EULA says they can suspend your account permanently, at any time, for ANY REASON. Not just for selling your own account, which should belong to you, but for ANY REASON. 

 

Well. Would be wise if I know the reasons so I don't lose my account and effort. 

I'm only saying that I'm scared because this is revealing in may ways. 

I am not on the agenda of critiquing DE for this. 

I want to get informed and know what are my responsibilities to keep my account and continue playing the game. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

or you could just.. you know... not buy accounts and play the game like an ordinary person, just doing a bit of what you want, whenever you have the time?

but don't listen to me, I'm talking crazy! wibble wobble oogi boogi!

[sitfesz]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

or you could just.. you know... not buy accounts and play the game like an ordinary person, just doing a bit of what you want, whenever you have the time?

but don't listen to me, I'm talking crazy! wibble wobble oogi boogi!

Or you could just...you know...learn to read first to properly understand text before you react to it.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

or you could just.. you know... not buy accounts and play the game like an ordinary person, just doing a bit of what you want, whenever you have the time?

 

Define that term? This is the first problem you face with such recommendation. 

The second problem is that Tencent can change the rules at any given time without us knowing. 

The third problem is that DE can change the terms of service at any given time without us knowing. 

Yes, reading is important but at least we NEED A PLACE where these terms of agreement are always available for reading and advice the community  when there are changes. 

 

[Yamazuki]

57 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

or you could just.. you know... not buy accounts and play the game like an ordinary person, just doing a bit of what you want, whenever you have the time?

but don't listen to me, I'm talking crazy! wibble wobble oogi boogi!

Reading isn't illegal yet.

The op isn't talking abut buying accounts. They're essentially talking about identity theft.

If someone had their identity stolen and someone used it for credit fraud, would you laugh at them and tell them to not buy identities? This is what you just did.

[KIREEK]

59 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

or you could just.. you know... not buy accounts and play the game like an ordinary person, just doing a bit of what you want, whenever you have the time?

but don't listen to me, I'm talking crazy! wibble wobble oogi boogi!

 

Very easy to say, but how do you convince others into not buying accounts.

Yes the accounts are hijacked, photoshoped (i've literally seen users selling a disciple founder account and they pasted a grand master icon on top), heck i've even seen banned accounts being sold over and over.

The reason it happens is because some ppl still believe they are getting a good deal, but some resellers won't even login into the accounts they have, they let others do that and once they do that, account is potentially nuked.

Entire collections of "sold accounts" are actually banned accounts, the users realized what happened and then lock the topic, delete the topic or mark it as sold. To an outsider it seems like things are being sold left and right, but reality is very different.

[Felsagger]

11 hours ago, Lutesque said:

The one thing I took away from all this is... Wow... Is Warframe's Grind really that bad 🤔 ?

 

 

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION IN THE ENTIRE FORUM. 

I think it's time we give proper attention to THIS. 

 

[(XBOX)Rylor Threev]

I know there are some legit account sellers out there, not just from warframe, but other games as well, unfortunately just as much as there are scammers

Got 2 questions:

1- is it really the supports job to ban people that do these things? Things could be happening OUT of DE reach, in a website like "sellyourwarframeaccounthere.com"?

2 - isn't this considered another "don't trade for promises" thing? Like that cool message you get once you open trade chat?

Honestly, screenshots these days shouldn't be considered solid proof anymore, you could argue even videos shouldn't as well

[L3512]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rylor Threev said:

I know there are some legit account sellers out there, not just from warframe, but other games as well, unfortunately just as much as there are scammers

Don't think there is any such thing as a 'legit account seller'.

 

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rylor Threev said:

1- is it really the supports job to ban people that do these things? Things could be happening OUT of DE reach, in a website like "sellyourwarframeaccounthere.com"?

As DE owns everyones account, nothing is out of DE's reach when it comes to failure to comply with TOS and banning.

 

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rylor Threev said:

2 - isn't this considered another "don't trade for promises" thing? Like that cool message you get once you open trade chat?

Honestly, screenshots these days shouldn't be considered solid proof anymore, you could argue even videos shouldn't as well

This is a RMT thing where any account linked to it will be nuked if DE finds out, hell the thread is about someone getting permabanned for making the mistake of showing personal data and scammers basically stealing and selling that persons account which the scammers did not even have access to.

What exactly are screenshots or videos going to do?

[(XBOX)Rylor Threev]

1 hour ago, L3512 said:

Don't think there is any such thing as a 'legit account seller'.

There are, it's not impossible, I knew someone that did used to create, grind, level up and all, and then sell the account later. How they managed to sell them? Got no clue

1 hour ago, L3512 said:

As DE owns everyones account, nothing is out of DE's reach when it comes to failure to comply with TOS and banning.

Good point, I've heard of TOS being... harsh with banning, and people being banned for less

1 hour ago, L3512 said:

This is a RMT thing where any account linked to it will be nuked if DE finds out, hell the thread is about someone getting permabanned for making the mistake of showing personal data and scammers basically stealing and selling that persons account which the scammers did not even have access to.

What exactly are screenshots or videos going to do?

My point was: taking the fact that photoshop exist, as well as lots video editing shenanigans these days, they shouldn't be the only proof necessary to ban someone's account, it changes nothing, the scammer still has the screenshots, videos and all, they can still keep going on until they run out of "potential buyers" the result is what was mentioned before, a banned account, nothing more, nothing less, what happens when support gets another angry player that bought another banned account?

[minininja77]

RMT man those were the good old days of gaming, I made a killing in EQ farming and selling plat (more than most made working part time jobs), then cashed out selling my accounts (selling my Monk accounts for $1k) when I was done, but today I can not figure out how people think this behavior will not get caught with all the advancements in technology.

2 hours ago, L3512 said:

As DE owns everyones account, nothing is out of DE's reach when it comes to failure to comply with TOS and banning.

I am shocked that Canada of all places does not have a law in place yet that says otherwise to this, they have one that has over turned nearly every other gaming industry "we own it" law, TOS and EULA.