The impact AoE nerf could have

[SneakyErvin]

A CD would be a good option, similar to how grenades etc. work in other games. Would give us a reason to use our full loadout. To maybe use a launcher primary and a sustained secondary, or vice versa. Or maybe pick Zarr over Bramma since it also comes with barrage mode. It would also still allow Acceltra, Ignis and similar weapons to stay intact.

[Tiltskillet]

They have multiple cooldowns already: they're called RoF, reload, magazine size, ammo reserves, and self stagger.  Unfortunately they're borked on some weapons and builds.

Not that I think either will happen, but fixing what we've already got would be a lot better than slapping CDs on to the existing system.

[Vortex]

44 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Maybe just stop wanting to ruin other peoples fun?

Seriously, team mates killing enemies before you can has been a thing since before AOE weapons became prominent. Nerfing AOE weapons isn’t going to change that.

Not only will it not change but it will even make the situation worse, Warframes nukers will come back with everything.

People forgot the millennial cry they made on the forum months ago because of Saryn.

[Tyreaus]

Maybe they shouldn't try to balance it.

Not because a lack of balance is good for the game, by any stretch, but because it's exhausting. People fight tooth and nail to keep it from happening, will quite vocally complain when it does, and because of all the moving parts, you really only have a chance of it working the way you want it to. Self-stagger is a decent idea in principle, except PSF is a thing and the timing window for recovery is buggered to heck and back. And things like getting damage in line is a great idea, until you set the difficulty off Steel Path and all that work crunching numbers flies out the window - along with half a map's worth of enemy units.

Meanwhile, they're able to release disgustingly OP things like the Incarnon weapons and the game keeps trucking along. The complaints around that are subatomic by comparison. If they want to tell a story in quests, they've shown the ability to work around it with things like the New War. Or just writing those quests accounting for the sheer damage output. Assume everything is going to drop dead instantly and write the quest likewise. Leverage cutscenes, or invulnerability periods for exposition. That's something that needs to be done whether or not you have AoE at all, anyway.

That'll suck for the people who want a decently balanced game, to actually participate in missions, and have an engaging experience. And it'll probably make the game look more like a mess than it already does, with things seeming totally out of control. But is it really worth the effort and turmoil and backlash? Especially when there are some new players thankful they can complete missions as a walking simulator? I can't say so.

[trst]

Sure that'd somewhat solve the issue at least for co-op but at the cost of ruining the viability and "engagement" of AOE weapons.

But of all the ways to nerf AOE restricting usage would by far cause the most outrage. Regardless of how impactful it is.

[Berzerkules]

Why not balance the over and under preforming outliers of every weapon type and not just blanket nerf an entire class of weapons? 

Or you know just add a cooldown to all aoe including full auto weapons like Zhuge, Komptessa and Scourge because they happen to have a small aoe explosion.

[shut]

2 hours ago, Tizodd said:

It's possible I missed it, but in this whole AoE nerf debate, I haven't noticed anyone make the suggestion of having AoE Weapon shots on cooldown to prevent constant nuke spamming.

Line-of-sight seems to be the most common suggestion, but having to wait between nukes would also help balance things a bit.

I've made this suggestion a couple times! You have now seen one (1) person making this suggestion XD

Shameless plug:

tl;dr: There's a whole bunch of ways AoE could potentially be tuned down (line-of-sight, self-damage, etc)... but if we want to make coop gameplay less frustrating for teammates while retaining everything that makes AoEs fun (i.e. big fat explosions with big fat damage numbers), then the best solution IMO is to drastically reduce max ammo of AoEs AND let ammo slowly replenish itself over time, with no other means of recovery.

So, effectively a cooldown that prevents AoEs from having 100% uptime. They'll make the strongest burst-damage options in the game, but players are forced to use other weapons while they wait for the ammo to recover.

[SneakyErvin]

I just figured out how to solve AoE issues.

Introduce an Elite path to each mode in the game, so you have Elite Steel Path, Elite Liches/Sister, Elite Fissures, Elite Invasions, Elite Arbitrations and so on where AoE weapons are simply prohibited with possible exceptions for incarnon weapons and "fueled" weapons like Trumna, some mech guns and so on.

[DeViL711]

why nerf aoe why not remove it?

solved!

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 hours ago, gamingchair1121 said:

maybe a one round magazine and a long reload

Not gonna stop us:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Reload

[SaulRialp]

DE please just dont nerf weapons, take a look one year back, steel path was released and the only viable way to defeat ennemys was vía melee, then comed the melee meta, after that you nerfed melees, and Buff prinary weapons then comed the aoe meta, just Instead of Nerf the meta can you relese new dificulty modes? Imagin a level 2 steel path with ennemys with 200 level more and 300% to 500% more shields/health/armor. There aoe weapons will not be the same trust me. 

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

 

  

On 2022-07-25 at 2:21 AM, (NSW)Vampire_Mika said:

i have to say, i do not think AoE is a major issue, i think the major issue is that non AoE weapons have too many drawbacks compared to AoE.

also, i think AoE should treat everything as "Obstacles", what i mean is, Enemies behind other enemies should not be hit by AoE due to the front enemy taking the explosion.

they could even make shield based enemies considered "Cover" for their allies and allies naturally try to stay behind them and those shield enemies give all units behind them AoE  resistance until that unit dies. the shield has durability and takes more damage from non AoE weapons, but has a extreme resistance to AoE damage and the enemy themself has high AoE resistance until their handheld shield is destroyed.

these enemies would  also go out of their way to try to stay in front of their allies.

 

but overall, i think the main issue is that, your killing speed massively decreases when you use non AoE weapons. sure you can kill fast with  non AoE weapons like the supra, but AoE weapons are still faster and more efficient.

 

but im glad i stopped using AoE just in case this change ruins AoE weapons. so atleast i wont be effected by this change.

but i feel like its better to add new enemies that give AoE resistances (like the shield concept i said) or buffing non AoE weapons with stuff like: all non AoE have  innate 3 punchthrough, AoE weapons now treat everything as Obstacles, punchthrough mods can lessen this. 

 

[Silligoose]

Just now, SaulRialp said:

DE please just dont nerf weapons, take a look one year back, steel path was released and the only viable way to defeat ennemys was vía melee, then comed the melee meta, after that you nerfed melees, and Buff prinary weapons then comed the aoe meta, just Instead of Nerf the meta can you relese new dificulty modes? Imagin a level 2 steel path with ennemys with 200 level more and 300% to 500% more shields/health/armor. There aoe weapons will not be the same trust me. 

While I 100% agree with an actual hard mode, weapons and weapon types still need to be balanced in relation to one another, so different weapon types can be competitive choices and different weapon classes perform better in certain situations within most missions.

A new mode most certainly shouldn't simply embrace the poor balancing mechanics as seen in current SP's balancing, in which DE just applied +x% armour/shield/health - that was one of the reasons the original SP was, and still is, such an unbalanced mess.

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

i think all that needs to happen is that AoE treats enemies as obstacles.

  

On 2022-07-25 at 2:21 AM, (NSW)Vampire_Mika said:

i have to say, i do not think AoE is a major issue, i think the major issue is that non AoE weapons have too many drawbacks compared to AoE.

also, i think AoE should treat everything as "Obstacles", what i mean is, Enemies behind other enemies should not be hit by AoE due to the front enemy taking the explosion.

they could even make shield based enemies considered "Cover" for their allies and allies naturally try to stay behind them and those shield enemies give all units behind them AoE  resistance until that unit dies. the shield has durability and takes more damage from non AoE weapons, but has a extreme resistance to AoE damage and the enemy themself has high AoE resistance until their handheld shield is destroyed.

these enemies would  also go out of their way to try to stay in front of their allies.

 

but overall, i think the main issue is that, your killing speed massively decreases when you use non AoE weapons. sure you can kill fast with  non AoE weapons like the supra, but AoE weapons are still faster and more efficient.

 

but im glad i stopped using AoE just in case this change ruins AoE weapons. so atleast i wont be effected by this change.

but i feel like its better to add new enemies that give AoE resistances (like the shield concept i said) or buffing non AoE weapons with stuff like: all non AoE have  innate 3 punchthrough, AoE weapons now treat everything as Obstacles, punchthrough mods can lessen this. 

 

[Beowulf22]

3 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

While I 100% agree with an actual hard mode, weapons and weapon types still need to be balanced in relation to one another, so different weapon types can be competitive choices and different weapon classes perform better in certain situations within most missions.

A new mode most certainly shouldn't simply embrace the poor balancing mechanics as seen in current SP's balancing, in which DE just applied +x% armour/shield/health - that was one of the reasons the original SP was, and still is, such an unbalanced mess.

I agree, the difficulty being that there are very few situations that call for anything new. I think the new eximus units are a start at that with difficulty in the way of the Guardian Eximus for example. The real challenge is enemy design. All enemies are roughly the same, mindless drones that run at you that can be killed with ease. things like the Nox are better design due to needing to actually aim for the head. Unqiue enemy designs that require different processes to kill would help a lot I think

[Giagantic]

2 hours ago, SaulRialp said:

DE please just dont nerf weapons, take a look one year back, steel path was released and the only viable way to defeat ennemys was vía melee, then comed the melee meta, after that you nerfed melees, and Buff prinary weapons then comed the aoe meta, just Instead of Nerf the meta can you relese new dificulty modes? Imagin a level 2 steel path with ennemys with 200 level more and 300% to 500% more shields/health/armor. There aoe weapons will not be the same trust me. 

Another AOE topic, what was wrong with the older ones...

Regardless, I thoroughly disagree that Steel Path required Melee at release... I did it with countless different weapons and had no issue, melee was certainly strong at the time though, then they nerfed it.

Most people aren't suggesting nerfing weapons, instead most are suggesting alternative paths such as LOS requirements, AOE resistent heavy units, etc... DE has a track record of overnerfing stuff or undernerfing stuff so I get why you are scared.

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

26 minutes ago, SaulRialp said:

DE please just dont nerf weapons, take a look one year back, steel path was released and the only viable way to defeat ennemys was vía melee, then comed the melee meta, after that you nerfed melees, and Buff prinary weapons then comed the aoe meta, just Instead of Nerf the meta can you relese new dificulty modes? Imagin a level 2 steel path with ennemys with 200 level more and 300% to 500% more shields/health/armor. There aoe weapons will not be the same trust me. 

Yeah I want single target buffed in general. Aoe gets used because it better, and even the best single target damage weapons cant one shot steel path outside of god builds.

Why is it I have a Latron with base corrosive, or radiation, a near guaranteed crit, a 10.2 crit multiplier, and an augment that gives me 20% damage on sequential shots but I struggle with it at higher levels? Simply because the reload is too long and it takes too many shots on enemies.

Or a vulkar that is a slot machine of slash, that one shots everything including eximus at high level but I my fire rate and reload is so slow, my dps lacks.

Meanwhile you rub to braincells together on a bramma, and you are set forever.

I dont think the solution is to nerf whats good, its to lower the requirements for good single target damage builds, and buffing their dps in general.

[(PSN)Unstar]

21 minutes ago, SaulRialp said:

Instead of Nerf the meta can you relese new dificulty modes?

This would just be a band-aid, and a poor one at that.  When the meta is imbalanced, the solution is to balance it.  If the goal is that a large amount of weapons should be roughly equally viable, then balance is the only answer.  Adding a new difficulty mode doesn't even address the issue.

[ChaoticEdge]

I cannot agree or disagreed.  The fact SP is truth they are hard to kill and building all that up is just pain the rear because eximus r more tougher in that mode.  This only bring out players finding the "right mods" again either they are facing glass cannon build or super ultra tanky build but it does end up depending weapons.  This lead to the problem, DE nerf range melee weapons long ago but already enough to be enough, so I ask, does it really the matter to need nerf it lot more for what reason?  Yes understand the power creeper wanted keep their mega killing zone but that is the reason why we play warframe cuz you made monsters creation like Eidolon, Orbs and other being, we end up have to craft monsters of our own.

This is where I have to let DE to rethink their chose where have to deiced make such fate for the game, I will not have my hand on the wheel to take over DE's chose for this is where they have to think carefully what is or what will be fair in-game and players.

[xXDragonGodXx]

24 minutes ago, SaulRialp said:

just Instead of Nerf the meta can you relese new dificulty modes?

25 minutes ago, SaulRialp said:

DE please just dont nerf weapons,

I don't speak for DE and I don't work at DE but I know for a fact that they will see this, laugh and move on.

 

 

26 minutes ago, SaulRialp said:

take a look one year back

Pleas do take a look one year back and have a look at all the builds you copy pasted to do Steel Path and then ask yourself how many others have done the same. Then at the end remember that if you copy paste then there will be a majority of others also doing the same. This leads to DE seeing players like yourself, that doesn't want the challenge of actually thinking and building for yourself, and then they "Nerf" a play style. (There is a lot of examples of this)

 

30 minutes ago, SaulRialp said:

Imagin a level 2 steel path with ennemys with 200 level more and 300% to 500% more shields/health/armor.

And then what? double or triple the current buffs on the current Steel Path? So instead of making it more difficult to do what you are allready doing, you want something new that you would not be able to do for the first couple of months until someone found a way that you could copy paste?

TLDR:

[vanaukas]

Source:

34 minutes ago, SaulRialp said:

 trust me. 

[gamingchair1121]

if they do that things like steel path are still unbalanced because aoe is still the most effective

[Josh486]

Nerfs are a long time coming in this game. Lol!

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

Why not balance the over and under preforming outliers of every weapon type and not just blanket nerf an entire class of weapons? 

Or you know just add a cooldown to all aoe including full auto weapons like Zhuge, Komptessa and Scourge because they happen to have a small aoe explosion.

Because Knowing DE. They’ll heavily nerf the overperformers to the point of uselessness, and barely buff the underperformers.

[Drachnyn]

vor 56 Minuten schrieb (NSW)Vampire_Mika:

i think all that needs to happen is that AoE treats enemies as obstacles.

  

 

Only if shield lancers get to yell "get down mister president" when they take one for the team.