Disabled crossplay for now ..

[Danielw8]

Im on pc, a mid end pc and using warframe in a HDD seagate disk, my load times are just decent compared to m2 disk, but i cant tank anymore console players

-Many, many probly most of them connect to my session and disconnect after 30 seconds

-Many take forever to load, last run, a dude took 4 min to load the mission

-Slow gameplay, barely can parkour, barely can bullet jump

-In any endless mission if console host we get 50% of the enemies

Its pretty much impossible do "fast" pub fissures or pub endless missions like 4 waves of defense with consoles players, i feel sorry because the game need these players, and im not even using titania or any fast warframe, the gameplay its just too slow too problematic

Edit: If i disable crossplay recruit chat in english - NA its dead im literally alone 8~9pm NA hour, so i need turn on and off the crossplay everytime i want play?

[trst]

You can only match with players, even on the same platform, when you have the same crossplay settings. And crossplay being turned on by default is why PC is dead with it turned off. So if crossplay is making your connections/experience worse then your options are to continue with this issue, play solo, or only queue with players you know.

 

Personally I'd leave it off as I don't want console hosts ruining spawn rates but it's a choice between that, solo, or constant requeuing until I get a PC host. It's nice to have the communities playing together but oh boy is it mess.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

When you disable cross play it takes you out of cross play pool and puts you in the pc only pool which most don't have turned off. 

[Danielw8]

7 minutes ago, trst said:

You can only match with players, even on the same platform, when you have the same crossplay settings. And crossplay being turned on by default is why PC is dead with it turned off. So if crossplay is making your connections/experience worse then your options are to continue with this issue, play solo, or only queue with players you know.

 

Personally I'd leave it off as I don't want console hosts ruining spawn rates but it's a choice between that, solo, or constant requeuing until I get a PC host. It's nice to have the communities playing together but oh boy is it mess.

i can see that, but you cant tell me "brother just play alone" after 4500 hours, specially for fissures you cant really farm stuff alone, even forma bps.

Im literally right now in ukko fissure afk in extraction waiting for console boys, 8 min timer and they still walking

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

30 minutes ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

When you disable cross play it takes you out of cross play pool and puts you in the pc only pool which most don't have turned off. 

Yup its a nightmare

DE Defaulted X-play to Enable for Everyone

and the vast majority of players won't even know that there's an option to revert.

 

So now you have to put up with the terrible X-play problems, or go stand in the corner for alone time.

[rawr1254]

Not sure if youre hosting or not but a lot of that sounds like a need to run the optimize feature on the launcher. Either that or if people are saying youre too laggy/people keep d/cing from your games it sounds like a slow internet speed issue.

Personally Ive had crossplay on for a long time now without seeing any issues I havent seen before crossplay came ie. locked out of abilities etc. due to slight amounts of lag from a host.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

Only issue with crossplay i got is that if certain platfrom is a host ,then missions like defense or survival becomes desert islands in terms of enemy spawm. Best i got was 25 min, 10 wave defense.... and totalled 500 kills between players. PC only squad be done in bit over 10 min and be like 700 to 1k kills split between.

[Danielw8]

15 minutes ago, rawr1254 said:

Not sure if youre hosting or not but a lot of that sounds like a need to run the optimize feature on the launcher. Either that or if people are saying youre too laggy/people keep d/cing from your games it sounds like a slow internet speed issue.

Personally Ive had crossplay on for a long time now without seeing any issues I havent seen before crossplay came ie. locked out of abilities etc. due to slight amounts of lag from a host.

You didnt read anything right?

5 minutes ago, AntifreezeUnder0 said:

Only issue with crossplay i got is that if certain platfrom is a host ,then missions like defense or survival becomes desert islands in terms of enemy spawm. Best i got was 25 min, 10 wave defense.... and totalled 500 kills between players. PC only squad be done in bit over 10 min and be like 700 to 1k kills split between.

Thats because console cant tank many enemies as host. A full squad with a console host you get like 50% enemies compared to pc host, that means less affinity, less resources and probly slower runs since enemies spawn more split and alone

[Slayer-.]

1 hour ago, Danielw8 said:

i can see that, but you cant tell me "brother just play alone" after 4500 hours, specially for fissures you cant really farm stuff alone, even forma bps.

Im literally right now in ukko fissure afk in extraction waiting for console boys, 8 min timer and they still walking

What Region are you set to, I can't see you in Chat.

Edit: Refreshes post seen it was an hour ago. 

Also, I've never had a problem with crossplay in a game, I've been surprised by how smooth it has been for me, not sure if it defaults to me being on a high-speed connection, though I think I joined on a PC host most of the time, with Consolers as well.

[FA22_RaptoR]

Unfortunately I think cross play has hindered the game more than helped it. I play most of the time solo these days, but when playing open it's an absolute mess. DC's all the time, slow loading, people load in and just sit there for minutes...

Not to mention the literal MONTHS we have to wait for game breaking bugs to be fixed for "cert builds"..... (Still can't cast abilities in the air with bullet jump)

Cross play has destroyed the social aspect of the game for me. The worst part is, the 2 guys I know that want to (or occasionally) play with me, can't even add me as a friend 🤪

*sigh*.... oh well.... hopefully more tuning will improve it, but i'm not holding my breath.

[trst]

1 hour ago, Danielw8 said:

i can see that, but you cant tell me "brother just play alone" after 4500 hours, specially for fissures you cant really farm stuff alone, even forma bps.

Im literally right now in ukko fissure afk in extraction waiting for console boys, 8 min timer and they still walking

Well there's not much else to be done about the issue without DE resolving it.

My hope is that at some point DE gets performance parity between all platforms either with downgrading the game on older console generations to function with the actual game or just drops support for them. It's not fair for PC players nor players on consoles that can run the game to suffer a worse game experience.

[Lilybun]

I don't mind loading screens or slower parkour at all but the enemy density nerfs are just awful. As if people spreading out to block spawns wasn't bad enough DE hard nerfing spawn rates for unwitting hosts is insane. Endless mission types are my favourite and I feel terrible having to instantly abandon console hosts upon loading in.

Couple years ago I wouldn't have dreamed about running a survival solo but recently I've found myself doing so a couple of times. Crazy how such a little change can affect enjoyment so much.

[chaotea]

5 hours ago, Danielw8 said:

You didnt read anything right?

They definatly did read. I read and came to similar conclusions. Almost all the issues you listed were issues affected by connection and not by console / pc performance.

For my part, I had a similar PC to you pre-christmas, before upgrading to a top of the line rig. I didnt have any of the issues you've mentioned, though I did notice that console players tend to force start missions before everyones loaded into games. Since getting my new PC with better load times its not been an issue.

However, while i'd say most of my games tend to have at least 1 or 2 console players these days, I'm not experiencing any of the issues youve noted. Console hosting players definatly seem to have the same quantity of enemies.

 

[SneakyErvin]

The only issue of those you describe that are actually tied to cross-play is the mob density issue incase an old gen or NSW player hosts, which really only is a downside in survival. The rest is rooted in the poor matchmaker, and when people have a hard time connecting to you it is in reality a you problem, not them, since well... you are the host that dictates the speed of things. Step 1 is to set your ping limit to a lower value. I've ran with it at 150ms since shortly after I started to make use of co-op in WF. Before lowering the limit grouping was all over the place, setting it lower improved it, but it is still far from perfect or close to what you'd expect from a matchmaker in a game.

At the moment I pretty much run everything solo since I'm fed up with WF matchmaking overall, I only flip on public for the occasional archon defense, excav or interception, or when I really really really want a prime part as fast as possible. I never do public SP or SP fissure survival in a group.

 

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

Struggle joining groups.

Can't be host cos PC players that join will hate my spawns.

It's a sad sad situation.

I think the idea is to shame me into upgrading.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Sometimes people just get paired with a host that is not good for them, seems that you weren't a good host if they're getting slowed.

People that I know that have an Xbox One ( I'll assume it's the same for Switch and PS4) seem to have issues with loading taking longer since it's a last gen console now but besides that they haven't shown signs of laggy gameplay.

Even I on a Series X can get laggy if the host is terrible that's more of an issue with the matchmaking than older consoles or potato PC.

The spawns though do suck they should up the spawns for console.

[DrBorris]

There really needs to be some sort of matchmaking priority. PC/PS5/XBX/XBS should all get some sort of special "hosting" pool where matchmaking will try to make them the host of crossplay content. DE can't just up the spawns across all consoles, the host machine is responsible for running the AI and other 'server side' stuff, this is a CPU demanding task and older consoles weren't exactly known for their CPU performance. Prioritizing giving the platforms that are capable of running the server stuff that responsibility would be a better experience for everyone. 

A need for a "host only" matchmaking option has been sorely needed for years. 

 

This doesn't solve the problems with last gen and switch players taking minutes to load in, but it would at least hopefully solve the bad spawns. 

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)drpunk-yo said:

I think the idea is to shame me into upgrading.

Nobody looks good in a tinfoil hat. There are very real performance concerns, all told Warframe is an incredibly well optimized game, DE can only do so much with the hardware. 

 

Edit: Given mobile is in the works, I can't imagine DE isn't already working on something to alleviate some of the hosting concerns. 

[Danielw8]

On 2023-03-21 at 10:05 AM, chaotea said:

They definatly did read. I read and came to similar conclusions. Almost all the issues you listed were issues affected by connection and not by console / pc performance.

For my part, I had a similar PC to you pre-christmas, before upgrading to a top of the line rig. I didnt have any of the issues you've mentioned, though I did notice that console players tend to force start missions before everyones loaded into games. Since getting my new PC with better load times its not been an issue.

However, while i'd say most of my games tend to have at least 1 or 2 console players these days, I'm not experiencing any of the issues youve noted. Console hosting players definatly seem to have the same quantity of enemies.

 

I still think you didnt read, if im here posting this after 4500 ingame hours its because something wrong its happening with consoles. I can understand consoles have lower specs and probly railjack load run might be a little slower but a capture mission? 

 

 

On 2023-03-21 at 10:09 AM, SneakyErvin said:

The only issue of those you describe that are actually tied to cross-play is the mob density issue incase an old gen or NSW player hosts, which really only is a downside in survival. The rest is rooted in the poor matchmaker, and when people have a hard time connecting to you it is in reality a you problem, not them, since well... you are the host that dictates the speed of things. Step 1 is to set your ping limit to a lower value. I've ran with it at 150ms since shortly after I started to make use of co-op in WF. Before lowering the limit grouping was all over the place, setting it lower improved it, but it is still far from perfect or close to what you'd expect from a matchmaker in a game.

At the moment I pretty much run everything solo since I'm fed up with WF matchmaking overall, I only flip on public for the occasional archon defense, excav or interception, or when I really really really want a prime part as fast as possible. I never do public SP or SP fissure survival in a group.

 

ryzen 3600, 6600xt, 16gb ram 3000mhz. I load any mission in pretty much 10 seconds. 50mb download 10mb upload

My ping limit allways has been 100 to 200ms

Yes im the host a pc client can join me in 10 seconds like my load times and a console dude can take 3 min

[(PSN)Jmazing7]

First of all, if you don't like the reduced spawns from last gen hosts just lower your ping limit so you become the host more often than not.

Second of all yeah, these are only issues on LAST GEN CONSOLES. Do not group in all of these performance issues into one big pool of just "console players" because the new consoles actually have the same spawn rates as PCs now and there are no issues with connecting to X-play hosts on next gen.

Finally, don't attribute console players with being inherently slow, cause that's just a person's skill level and has nothing to do with the platform they're playing on, trust me I've been in missions where I'm waiting on a PC player just as many times as I wait for anyone else.

Usually their time is spent loading in, before I upgraded to a PS5 at the end of last year the load times were nearing 4 minutes on a regular capture mission like you were saying, now its less than 5 seconds most of the time. Can't speak from experience for Xbox but I've heard it isn't AS bad though the playstation playerbase is bigger anyway so that's who you'll be running into most of the time.

With all that being said I still think DE has a lot of work to do with X-play before it can even be considered finished, as far as I'm concerned this thing is still in beta seeing how basic features like the friend list aren't even cross-platform yet. All of the performance issues from last gen can be chalked up to the game really just not being able to be run on those old consoles anymore. This should be putting even more pressure on DE to release cross-save so all of these players trapped on their platforms can upgrade to a PC, like they've been wanting to for probably years at this point, instead of buying yet another generation of console just so they can keep their progress in this ONE game.

The last gen players are really the biggest victims in DE's uncertain timeline for cross-play/save

[SneakyErvin]

30 minutes ago, Danielw8 said:

ryzen 3600, 6600xt, 16gb ram 3000mhz. I load any mission in pretty much 10 seconds. 50mb download 10mb upload

My ping limit allways has been 100 to 200ms

Yes im the host a pc client can join me in 10 seconds like my load times and a console dude can take 3 min

Still a matchmaker issue overall that has been there since forever. You likely just notice it more now because the low end pool is larger now with tater PCs joining forces with last gen consoles and NSW. The question is also, do you use wired or wi-fi internet and what are the clients using? Do you use a VPN, do they use a VPN? Is your ISP giving you full juice, poor routing or something, or is that a case for your clients? Several things can screw massively with the matchmaker and peer connections and it isnt as simple as writing it of as cross-play related.

[Danielw8]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

Still a matchmaker issue overall that has been there since forever. You likely just notice it more now because the low end pool is larger now with tater PCs joining forces with last gen consoles and NSW. The question is also, do you use wired or wi-fi internet and what are the clients using? Do you use a VPN, do they use a VPN? Is your ISP giving you full juice, poor routing or something, or is that a case for your clients? Several things can screw massively with the matchmaker and peer connections and it isnt as simple as writing it of as cross-play related.

direct ethernet cable, full juice

I dont know what part you not understand guys its a specific problem with console load time, its that bad this generation of gamers?

[(PSN)Jmazing7]

What's actually happening most of the time is, if you reach the point of a mission where you would no longer be able to invite someone (Cannot invite X, the objective has been completed) which in capture is just the point of downing the target, someone who is loading in will just be disconnected. 

[SneakyErvin]

22 minutes ago, Danielw8 said:

direct ethernet cable, full juice

I dont know what part you not understand guys its a specific problem with console load time, its that bad this generation of gamers?

Could be that we havent experienced it. For me things are exactly the same regarding connection issues as it was prior to cross-play, not more, not less. The only real difference is mob density when ending up with a NSW host, or possibly with a last gen console host in general.

[Danielw8]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Could be that we havent experienced it. For me things are exactly the same regarding connection issues as it was prior to cross-play, not more, not less. The only real difference is mob density when ending up with a NSW host, or possibly with a last gen console host in general.

i take that even if you play 1 hour every month, but im doing very specific points on main post, consoles take too much time to load and its too problematic in many ways

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Danielw8 said:

i take that even if you play 1 hour every month, but im doing very specific points on main post, consoles take too much time to load and its too problematic in many ways

This isnt really a 1 hour per month thing though. I mean, we dont need to scew the numbers here. This is about a few hours per day, especially now when I have relics to crack for primes I dont own yet. So grouping is part of practically every day aslong as there is a fissure I wanna run. And I have yet to run into any specific cross-play related connection issues. I was expecting them when cross-play got added and was surprised it wasnt any better or worse than before. I mean, yeah I run into connection issues, but they are not more common now for me.

That said, I think DE should really improve their matchmaker for a far better exprience. Like I said, I mostly disable public because I cannot stand the issues it brings. It just hasnt gotten worse with cross-play.