Quitting New war quest (and other probably)

[Packetdancer]

On 2024-01-20 at 2:38 PM, Wall-- said:

I was not asking you to understand how it would feel to play with anything that could possibly interfere with 100% mobility of limbs, fingers, etc or even understand how it would be to play with things much worse.

I snapped a ligament in my hand and had to have surgery on January 5th, the surgical dressings removed and replaced with a cast on the 17th, and am stuck in this cast until mid-February. (A fact I have griped about in a couple of other threads already.)

I always had a sort of objective understanding of how physical limitations could constrain your play-styles, but I now have a visceral subjective one; I cannot even bullet-jump because I cannot physically press control and space at the same time.

It does also illustrate how folks who have an impediment to "normal" play in the game can adapt; if I were in this cast longer, I would probably try to do so myself, finding a play-style that worked for the limitations I presently have. (Since I'm getting the cast off next month, it doesn't feel worth the time to devise a different way to play and try to retrain myself to play that way; I'm instead viewing it as an enforced break wherein I can only do fashion frame and maybe some Captura.)

But I know that any alternate style of play I would come up with to allow for one hand being utterly immobilized would definitely not involve my usual precision and speed; I'd probably have to go for a more AoE-focused build and plan around a far more stationary play-style with tankier frames.

Which would be a perfectly viable way to play all of the game up to the New War... but probably not to play the New War itself.

[Wall--]

21 hours ago, Packetdancer said:

I snapped a ligament in my hand and had to have surgery on January 5th, the surgical dressings removed and replaced with a cast on the 17th, and am stuck in this cast until mid-February. (A fact I have griped about in a couple of other threads already.)

I always had a sort of objective understanding of how physical limitations could constrain your play-styles, but I now have a visceral subjective one; I cannot even bullet-jump because I cannot physically press control and space at the same time.

It does also illustrate how folks who have an impediment to "normal" play in the game can adapt; if I were in this cast longer, I would probably try to do so myself, finding a play-style that worked for the limitations I presently have. (Since I'm getting the cast off next month, it doesn't feel worth the time to devise a different way to play and try to retrain myself to play that way; I'm instead viewing it as an enforced break wherein I can only do fashion frame and maybe some Captura.)

But I know that any alternate style of play I would come up with to allow for one hand being utterly immobilized would definitely not involve my usual precision and speed; I'd probably have to go for a more AoE-focused build and plan around a far more stationary play-style with tankier frames.

Which would be a perfectly viable way to play all of the game up to the New War... but probably not to play the New War itself.

I am truly sorry that you have suffered this injury and have to deal with this. There more you play, experiment you will become more accustom to your limitations and adapt the play style to reflect that.

I think the worst part for new players that have to deal with limitations is the frustration you feel knowing that you can't play like you did. Once you get over that you will be able to figure out a playstyle and content that you can accel at.

I have permanent nerve damage in my left forearm going into my hand. My left bicep tendon was shredded and had to be completely removed. My left arm kind of reacts like an electric garage door opener; when you click the button it sometimes starts, stops and retracks.

For all intensive purposes i play one handed and have for years and many FPS and 3rd PS games. As I've said I really hope at some point game developers take into account their disabled community who play games for fun, enjoyment and occupational therapy. 

Thank you for responding.

[Packetdancer]

3 hours ago, Wall-- said:

I am truly sorry that you have suffered this injury and have to deal with this. There more you play, experiment you will become more accustom to your limitations and adapt the play style to reflect that.

I'm lucky; in my case this impairment is only temporary. There will be some physical therapy after the cast comes off in February, but the surgeon says I should have full use of my hand back before too long. Still, I can't recommend the experience; "snapping a ligament in two" gets a zero-star Yelp review.

I've long been aware of -- and supported -- efforts like AbleGamers, and I like to think I try to be conscious of such things; my own little indie gamedev crew has an accessibility guidelines document. (Which doesn't cover control accessibility because it's meant to be a baseline game-agnostic set of guidelines, and control schemes can be very game-specific.)

But this is the first time I've found myself in an "I am suddenly incapable of doing the thing to which I am accustomed" scenario; that gives a new and more visceral personal understanding of such things, rather than just an objective/intellectual one. (Whether that thing is as specific as "playing Warframe" or as general as "typing on Discord or posting on forums without using a swipe keyboard on the iPad.")

Edited January 24 by Packetdancer

[Packetdancer]

3 hours ago, Wall-- said:

I have permanent nerve damage in my left forearm going into my hand. My left bicep tendon was shredded and had to be completely removed. My left arm kind of reacts like an electric garage door opener; when you click the button it sometimes starts, stops and retracks.

For all intensive purposes i play one handed and have for years and many FPS and 3rd PS games. As I've said I really hope at some point game developers take into account their disabled community who play games for fun, enjoyment and occupational therapy.

Also, my sympathies on this. A friend of mine had severe nerve damage in both hands from an incident during his military service; as an avid gamer, he found the way his hands would sometimes freeze up and just not do what he wanted -- like your garage door analogy -- to be incredibly frustrating. So while I can't say that I've ever had to experience that myself, I can say that I've witnessed secondhand the frustration that can cause.

[Tiltskillet]

On 2024-01-20 at 2:38 PM, Wall-- said:

. All i was trying to ask that maybe the Warframe disability community had some better options like suspending a quest for a time if it was beyond reach and come back to it later without being locked out of the base game.

I don't know if it's true, but I've heard once or twice that support can assist with this.   Although what I recall hearing was that they could get people past  points in the quest, not reset or suspend it.

Again, may be untrue, true, or partially true.

[Circle_of_Psi]

6 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I don't know if it's true, but I've heard once or twice that support can assist with this.   Although what I recall hearing was that they could get people past  points in the quest, not reset or suspend it.

Again, may be untrue, true, or partially true.

Likely untrue, since anyone and everyone will and can use this as an excuse to get something they want, so unless DE Support asks for actual proof of your disability then anyone can "fake it" so they can get the Quest done, skipped or reset, etc.

Ofc I'm not saying that people who have a disability are faking it, just it's very hard to prove something over text without solid proof and to know if the player is truthful themselves. 

Edited January 24 by Circle_of_Psi

[Kaliberdj]

After playing this game for over 1.7k hours and achieving mastery 21..

Sacrifice was the last well-done quest in this game: you play with a warframe and the story is well done. It has a good script and history is told in the right way

The New War.. why would someone give up from playing with a warframe to control this slow, cluncky thing called drifter? This makes the player's experience worse and frustrating. Drifter and roguelike shouldn't have been introduced inside a frantic action game like this one. New War's story is only good at the beginning, the rest of the 70% is a bunch of dialogues with unconnected nonsense and strange phrases. The reason why you go places matters. It's not something to be merely invented to entertain the player, it needs to be realistic and rational.

To top it off, The New War has no option to abandon the quest, a disrespect from DE towards the player

Personally, I solved this problem by doing the following:

1. Close the game

2. Uninstall Warframe

3. Search for another space fps mmo like D2 or Halo Infinite (campaign+open world pve)

Solved.

Edited January 24 by Kaliberdj

[Chewarette]

Ok

[0_The_F00l]

You will be back and you will complete the new war ,

Why ? Cause this 

7 minutes ago, Kaliberdj said:

3. Search for another space fps mmo like D2 or Halo Infinite (campaign+open world pve)

Solved.

There is no other game like warframe.

 

Other than that ,i do partially agree that the new war left a lot to be desired. It's better to treat it as a demo for a different game than an actual warframe quest.

[-Krism-]

[MaxTunnerX]

37 minutes ago, Kaliberdj said:

After playing this game for over 1.7k hours and achieving mastery 21..

Sacrifice was the last well-done quest in this game: you play with a warframe and the story is well done. It has a good script and history is told in the right way

The New War.. why would someone give up from playing with a warframe to control this slow, cluncky thing called drifter? This makes the player's experience worse and frustrating. Drifter and roguelike shouldn't have been introduced inside a frantic action game like this one. New War's story is only good at the beginning, the rest of the 70% is a bunch of dialogues with unconnected nonsense and strange phrases. The reason why you go places matters. It's not something to be merely invented to entertain the player, it needs to be realistic and rational.

To top it off, The New War has no option to abandon the quest, a disrespect from DE towards the player

Personally, I solved this problem by doing the following:

1. Close the game

2. Uninstall Warframe

3. Search for another space fps mmo like D2 or Halo Infinite (campaign+open world pve)

Solved.

As much as I agree with a lot of this, youre very late to the party pal. We have been saying this for ages and no, it doesnt seem like anything is changing with the new war.

Edited January 24 by MaxTunnerX

[(PSN)robotwars7]

have fun in your next game I guess. the New War claims yet another casualty.

[JamiePax]

30 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

she looks like she picks her boogers and spreads it on the school bathrooms wall

[16Bitman]

If people quitting over the New War actually lead to a noticeable financial loss for DE, they would've changed it long ago.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Treat the drifter as a Warframe cause it's pretty much the same thing -bullet jump, which wasn't going to be useful anyway if you're having trouble with a quest balanced around your healthpool and damage.

And the stealth part isn't complicated as well, have some patience in those parts

[Slayer-.]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Treat the drifter as a Warframe cause it's pretty much the same thing -bullet jump, which wasn't going to be useful anyway if you're having trouble with a quest balanced around your healthpool and damage.

And the stealth part isn't complicated as well, have some patience in those parts

I found once you got the bow it was all over for the enemies, way easier to deal with them than with the pistol/amp.

[SneakyErvin]

Knee jerk reaction I'd say. If I didnt know better I'd call you papa, since he was also the "burn the bridge behind you" kinda person.

Though I have to say your drastic tantrums messures are not enough. You forgot to burn your PC and apply a wrecking ball or dozer to your house.

So I have to grade it 1/10.

[SDGDen]

just finish the quest.

if people with mental and physical disabilities can do it, so can you. there is no excuse of "too hard".

if you want help or tips on how to complete the new war, feel free to ask. people have plenty of advice that helps you get the quest done.

[o0Despair0o]

Yeah, no.

 

It's a quest. A story quest. A story quest largely about the Drifter.

You can't exactly play a story quest about the Drifter without said Drifter.

 

This is like getting upset that a game about magic involves magic,

[Circle_of_Psi]

6 hours ago, -Krism- said:

<An Pic>

Krsim

Why?

[UnstarPrime]

It does indeed suck that players can't leave The New War.  Seems like a glaring oversight.  But unfortunately, DE seems to be fine with it.

Best of luck to you.

[-Krism-]

28 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Krsim

Why?

[(PSN)clary_pangs]

Agreed. I didnt really like the story or the gameplay in it and just sort of willed myself so i can get back to warframe. its not that it's super hard but it was just...tedious. i enjoy playing drifter in duviri way more than i did in new war. and ugh, it made vallis and plains ugly. im so thankful i have capturas for cetus plains and vallis which look so much better.

[MirageKnight]

On 2024-01-08 at 6:14 AM, Packetdancer said:

For the record, I also really loved the quest. I thought it demonstrated how terrifyingly powerful the Tenno are—and, perhaps, how much we take that for granted—in a visceral and effective way.

But as I've said, I've come to think it may be a bad checkpoint on game design grounds. A checkpoint, to my mind, should either have the player demonstrate a grasp of the gameplay elements that have come before, or demonstrate a basic grasp of a new mechanic being introduced. Junctions and other star chart progression are an example of the former; the War Within teaching Operator abilities (Void form, Void sling, Transference) is an example of the second.

The thing is, up to that quest folks have a lot of freedom in how they play. You can be Rhino and face-tank most star chart damage. You can be zippy Nezha, immune to status effects and able to easily skate around to reposition on a battlefield. You can be Titania and be a tiny death pixie. Moreover, if you have trouble with boss mechanics, you can group up with someone who is better at them and run the mission together. And while people like you and I are likely to take all the toys and try playing with everything (because that is what we enjoy), not all players do. Some will find a single comfy thing and stick with that forever, and get their joy in the game from that... and generally the game is fine with letting them do so.

None of that is true for the New War.

You can make the argument that folks should hypothetically be able to do these things by the time you get to the New War, but the game has not generally asked them explicitly to do any of this stuff before. Not on the level the quest asks of them, anyway. And that's  where the idea of the contract between player and game comes in. Based on however many hours of playing Warframe, a player has developed an impression of how they are allowed to play the game. And for a non-zero number of players, this quest not only violates that perceived contract, but then also figuratively locks them in a room and demands they learn to play the game a different way on the spot before they'll be allowed to do anything else.

That's where I think it stumbles in terms of game design, if that makes sense.

It was pretty much this reason why I stopped playing Warframe for a year shortly after New War went live.

As a player expecting to be able to play the quest as I’ve always played Warframe, I was suddenly confronted with a stealth section stripped of all weapons and sneak past an arguably absurd number of detection units. The number of retries for that section was sufficient to trigger enough anger and frustration that I threw up my hands in disgust and walked away. My issue was being forced to NOT play Warframe the way all us have always been encouraged to play and being stuck in a quest with no way to exit and play the normal game. I was really mad.

A year later, I returned to see if anything had been fixed. Nope. I decided to just power through and be done with it. The Archon fights as the drifter were lengthy slogs that drew much ire. I finally finished New War and was able to play the game I enjoy, but I utterly resented the quest experience as designed and set up…and I still do.

I now view all new quests with suspicion instead of anticipation.

I’ll say this: there’s a lot of screwups that I’ll forgive DE for if they fix things and apologize for…BUT If they EVER pull another mess like  New War on their player base again, I’ll never touch another quest again - lore progress and new content be damned.

[(PSN)clary_pangs]

14 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

It was pretty much this reason why I stopped playing Warframe for a year shortly after New War went live.

As a player expecting to be able to play the quest as I’ve always played Warframe, I was suddenly confronted with a stealth section stripped of all weapons and sneak past an arguably absurd number of detection units. The number of retries for that section was sufficient to trigger enough anger and frustration that I threw up my hands in disgust and walked away. My issue was being forced to NOT play Warframe the way all us have always been encouraged to play and being stuck in a quest with no way to exit and play the normal game. I was really mad.

A year later, I returned to see if anything had been fixed. Nope. I decided to just power through and be done with it. The Archon fights as the drifter were lengthy slogs that drew much ire. I finally finished New War and was able to play the game I enjoy, but I utterly resented the quest experience as designed and set up…and I still do.

I now view all new quests with suspicion instead of anticipation.

I’ll say this: there’s a lot of screwups that I’ll forgive DE for if they fix things and apologize for…BUT If they EVER pull another mess like  New War on their player base again, I’ll never touch another quest again - lore progress and new content be damned.

Same. The first thing I made sure to know when Zariman and Whispers came out is whether or not it has parts that lock me in. And every quest after it will always be the first thing on my mind and if it does I wont play it and just enjoy the game i want to play :P