The Circuit Rng is rigged

[TheKurtiStryke]

After playing a couple of games on the circuit(btw, i'm very enjoying it) i noticed something, but before making any kind of assumption, i decided to play and explore and understand this mode a lot more, then only after i would have draw conclusions.

but before continuing, keep in mind that i  almost own every single weapon of this game(about 80% more or less) and every warframe(100%).
Every weapon that was released in the past, i kept it, exception made for non prime weapons, i sell  and replace them with the prime version OR some specific cases  where in order to make a new weapon, you need to use an existing one(like using the mutalist cernos to craft the proboscid cernos), but still, i farmed again some of those  weapons because i liked them.

So, in conclusion, the Rng of the circuit is Totally 100% rigged....

have you ever noticed that in the Rng selection you get after choosing a warframe, the game almost always brings you weapons you do not own and with a pre modded configuration?(especially on the right), i thought that maybe it was just a bad case of rng, for example, i lamost never got saryn, but my friends told me they actually managed to get her quite often, but agreed on the fact  they almost always find 2-4 "S#&$ty" weapons they do not own on the rotation.

 

between only primary/melee and secondary, i have 317 weapons (yes, i freaking counted all of them), and i periodically always get 50% weapons i own and 50% weapons i do not own in my rng selection in every game...

something is off....

[(PSN)robotwars7]

well done for noticing lol.

I often get Single Stubba, Bronco, AkLato etc. because I don't own these weapons anymore, and the system cannot tell the difference between a weapon that has never been owned and a weapon that has been mastered and owned but is no longer in the player's arsenal. strange considering the Codex is able to keep up with this, so I don't see why they can't just base the system on weapons that are mastered only and weight it towards weapons that you actually own.

guess that would be too convenient though. 

[Numerounius]

It has to show you at least one unowned with some slight tweaks if it is less than 10 unowned. We know this since it is in the patch notes.

 

The problem arises if that is the only thing or if there are other mechanics at play that they conveniently forgot to tell us.

[sunderthefirmament]

1 hour ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

they almost always find 2-4 "S#&$ty" weapons they do not own on the rotation.

 

between only primary/melee and secondary, i have 317 weapons (yes, i freaking counted all of them), and i periodically always get 50% weapons i own and 50% weapons i do not own in my rng selection in every game...

something is off....

If you don't read patch notes closely, you might have missed this.  It's not fully random.  It's weighted by design.  We don't know the exact number of owned weapons needed to remove the unowned weighting though.

 

From the patch notes:

Upon entering Teshin’s Cave, you will be presented with randomized Warframe and Weapon options. These options are pulled directly from your Arsenal, and at least 1 of the options from each category (Warframe, Primary Weapon, Secondary Weapon, and Melee Weapon) will be something you do not own*. 

*Unowned Warframes and Weapons will always be the base version. This means only Excalibur, not Excalibur Prime; only the Hek, not the Vaykor Hek or Kuva Hek.

Unless of course you do in fact own everything - you go getter! In a similar fashion, if you have less than 10 unowned Warframes, those Warfames have a lower chance of appearing in the Cave to prevent repeated options across each Spiral. A similar methodology is applied to Weapon selections as well. 

[BroDutt]

The Opportunity intrinsic actually add more chance weapon from your arsenal. From what I've counted. From right to left

a. 2 from the right had 50% chance to add secondary item from your arsenal

b. next random melee/secondary you don't own

c. Next 2 had 50% chance to add melee item from your arsenal

d. Next one random primary item

e. Next one primary with 50% chance item from your arsenal

 

[(PSN)M00n_Slippers]

I kind of wish we could use our Decree rerolls to reroll the weapon options.

[Tiltskillet]

28 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

If you don't read patch notes closely, you might have missed this.  It's not fully random.  It's weighted by design.  We don't know the exact number of owned weapons needed to remove the unowned weighting though.

Whatever the number is, it's very low.  Or it's spread across gear slots.  Or not working correctly.  I'm seemingly guaranteed to get Cycron or Catabolyst, and these are the only two sidearms I don't own, not counting a few that I think aren't rollable  if one doesn't have them.  Tenet Spirex, Diplos, and Envoy, namely.

[TheKurtiStryke]

to everyone saying "read the patchnotes", well, in my defence, patchnotes after a big update, most of the times are just big, gigantic wall of text about fixs.

29 minutes ago, BroDutt said:

The Opportunity intrinsic actually add more chance weapon from your arsenal. From what I've counted. From right to left

a. 2 from the right had 50% chance to add secondary item from your arsenal

b. next random melee/secondary you don't own

c. Next 2 had 50% chance to add melee item from your arsenal

d. Next one random primary item

e. Next one primary with 50% chance item from your arsenal

 

wait, so, it's intentional?...., i'm sorry, but this feels stupid.

[sunderthefirmament]

9 minutes ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

to everyone saying "read the patchnotes", well, in my defence, patchnotes after a big update, most of the times are just big, gigantic wall of text about fixs.

wait, so, it's intentional?...., i'm sorry, but this feels stupid.

I didn't mean to condescend.  I definitely didn't read them thoroughly at first either, and was beginning to post similar theories in other threads.  Some kind soul on reddit guided me towards the patch notes.

 

I guess this shows that the weighting is very noticeable for higher MR accounts that have accrued a lot of stuff over the years.

[(PSN)jaden0198]

I got the Veldt 4 times today.  Completed each run, but the Veldt wants to be my soul mate. 

LR3 with hundreds of weapons owned.  A few dozen unowned.  The Veldt....

[(PSN)Pragmatic_2015]

1 hour ago, (PSN)M00n_Slippers said:

I kind of wish we could use our Decree rerolls to reroll the weapon options.

I've been saying this since day 1

[EdinaMonsoon]

as someone who owns every single weapon, including every variety of the same one (even every kitgun as both primary and secondary), i do seem to be getting a lot of the same gear pop up again and again.

strun prime has made a lot of appearances, for example. opportunity should have had a "reroll one weapon slot once" intrinsic

[Exxion]

2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

If you don't read patch notes closely, you might have missed this.  It's not fully random.  It's weighted by design.  We don't know the exact number of owned weapons needed to remove the unowned weighting though.

I can put an upper bound on it, at least. I just got a cave containing no primaries I don't own. If I didn't miscount, I own 74 unique primaries (excluding variants and, in one case, a duplicate). I can't find a confirmed figure for the total number of unique (non-variant) primary weapons in the game, but my quick count puts it at 99. I quite possibly have that slightly wrong, but it should be close to correct. That would put the relative threshold at a proportion of no more than about 75%, and probably less. That's noticeably below the relative threshold for frames of about 80%.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, (PSN)NutCrampz said:

I got the Veldt 4 times today.  Completed each run, but the Veldt wants to be my soul mate. 

LR3 with hundreds of weapons owned.  A few dozen unowned.  The Veldt....

Sorry, we're here to complain about bad weapons being offered, not to brag about how many times we were blessed with the awesomeness that is the Veldt.

[Numerounius]

2 hours ago, BroDutt said:

The Opportunity intrinsic actually add more chance weapon from your arsenal. From what I've counted. From right to left

a. 2 from the right had 50% chance to add secondary item from your arsenal

b. next random melee/secondary you don't own

c. Next 2 had 50% chance to add melee item from your arsenal

d. Next one random primary item

e. Next one primary with 50% chance item from your arsenal

 

Is this just observation or where is the official evidence this is in the game? Not seeing this in the patch notes and this surely isn't going to be in the drop tables or through a random DE comment. I really hope we don't have to deal with another invigoration weighting issue on our hands :(

 

The random primary item for part d has to be unowned, this is what makes the patch notes accurate. And b is for the next two items to bring it up to the 8 total with maxed out intrinstics. Otherwise this logic seems to check out to make this true.

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Whatever the number is, it's very low.  Or it's spread across gear slots.  Or not working correctly.  I'm seemingly guaranteed to get Cycron or Catabolyst, and these are the only two sidearms I don't own, not counting a few that I think aren't rollable  if one doesn't have them.  Tenet Spirex, Diplos, and Envoy, namely.

Following up on this:  welp, I just had a an offering that didn't include either Cycron or Catabolyst.   Ceramic Dagger -was- offered. Which I do own, but it's unmodded. So it seems fairly clear that the unowned/unmodded selections are pooled up together regardless of gear slots.

[Exxion]

50 minutes ago, Exxion said:

I can put an upper bound on it, at least. I just got a cave containing no primaries I don't own. If I didn't miscount, I own 74 unique primaries (excluding variants and, in one case, a duplicate). I can't find a confirmed figure for the total number of unique (non-variant) primary weapons in the game, but my quick count puts it at 99. I quite possibly have that slightly wrong, but it should be close to correct. That would put the relative threshold at a proportion of no more than about 75%, and probably less. That's noticeably below the relative threshold for frames of about 80%.

And now I just got a cave with no unowned melee weapons. By my count, I only have about half of all unique melee weapons in the game. There's no way the threshold is that low. Is this just not working properly?

[0_The_F00l]

They are definitely weighted , as already mentioned above,

But there also seems to be a repeat mitigation of sorts ?

If you pick the unowned item it usually doesn't appear again for some time.

It may just be my bias cause i don't have enough of a sample.

[ReddyDisco]

6 hours ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

between only primary/melee and secondary, i have 317 weapons (yes, i freaking counted all of them), and i periodically always get 50% weapons i own and 50% weapons i do not own in my rng selection in every game...

I'm LR3 aswell and mastered almost all weapons and frames but haven't kept quite as many in collection, about 234 weapons (i counted them too lol). I keep seeing the same handful of weapons i've sold over and over and over. Apparently collecting stuff is working against us, but i can't bring myself to sell old nostalgic weapons just for a game mode I'll prolly never play after incarnons.

[(PSN)thowed]

5 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Sorry, we're here to complain about bad weapons being offered, not to brag about how many times we were blessed with the awesomeness that is the Veldt.

I laughed harder than I shoulda.

[SneakyErvin]

7 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Following up on this:  welp, I just had a an offering that didn't include either Cycron or Catabolyst.   Ceramic Dagger -was- offered. Which I do own, but it's unmodded. So it seems fairly clear that the unowned/unmodded selections are pooled up together regardless of gear slots.

Are you sure you didnt get a primary you do not own instead? 

[Tiltskillet]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Are you sure you didnt get a primary you do not own instead? 

Yes, why do you ask? 

And basically the same thing happened just now, where I owned everything offered except for one melee weapon.  Sampotes this time.

[BroDutt]

21 hours ago, XHADgaming said:

Is this just observation or where is the official evidence this is in the game? Not seeing this in the patch notes and this surely isn't going to be in the drop tables or through a random DE comment. I really hope we don't have to deal with another invigoration weighting issue on our hands :(

 

The random primary item for part d has to be unowned, this is what makes the patch notes accurate. And b is for the next two items to bring it up to the 8 total with maxed out intrinstics. Otherwise this logic seems to check out to make this true.

I've got some of the item I own on part d sometime. Including Kuva Bramma. But always get item that I don't own. The last one had greater chance for the primary that I own but the one that I haven't install mod/orokin reactor

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Yeah it's designed to keep spamming you with the few crappy MR fodder weapons you deleted sadly.

Thankfully , those are usually super cheap to re-craft, which is what I did and it finally solved the problem. Got super tired of having 2-3 of Kohmak / Ether Reaper / Shaku / Single Bolto / Single Kama / Single Cestra / Single Vasto / Dual Heat Sword / Dual Heat Dagger / Heat Sword / Heat Dagger / Ether Sword / Dual Ether Sword / Chronus / Kestrel showing up every single round and making it hard to get stuff I actually cared about.

Now I just need to re-acquire 2 Nightwave Melee Weapons and I'll have all the weapons again...

[Steeldragonz]

While i cant comment on getting things i dont own [my arsenal is 710/710 and i havent sold anything, i always earn more plat to get more slots i put the effort into building something im going to keep it even if its a pos]. I do get the same warframes and weapons very often, Trinty Prime is prob my most offered [and never used] frame, while weapons vary somewhat i get fang/heat dagger/and other things i havent used for many years very often [no dmg 3.0 mod setup on them]