Blindly following the "meta" is the single worst statergy in the game and actively ruins it for others.

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

I have yet to find a reasonably comfortable build where shield gating is the main focus. I have never seen the viability other than keeping myself from being 1 shot (Which was the whole purpose of shield gating in the first place.) Im a wisp main and I don't like being 1 shot, that is my take on shield gating and the only reason why I want it's existence.


You have a lot of good points that I agree with. I clicked on this expecting the usual complaining but found myself pleased to find that we agree that the people are the problem.

[A-Flying-Brick]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)EntityPendragon said:

I have yet to find a reasonably comfortable build where shield gating is the main focus. I have never seen the viability other than keeping myself from being 1 shot (Which was the whole purpose of shield gating in the first place.) Im a wisp main and I don't like being 1 shot, that is my take on shield gating and the only reason why I want it's existence.


You have a lot of good points that I agree with. I clicked on this expecting the usual complaining but found myself pleased to find that we agree that the people are the problem.

Shield gating has some potential in certain very precise situations but I find it's very rare to be properly one shot even at mega high levels with a good team/build. If something's going to drop me, it's either my own hubris or a stray toxin/fire DoT which shield-gating does nothing for. That's why I run a Djinn (with Reawaken and Sacrifice) and Last Gasp because it's silly to never expect to drop but I'm for sure getting back up again. With Wisp I run Archon Vitality for the health but also to be able use my 4 as a better deathbeam. While I'm not trying to shield-gate per say, she does have pretty low shields and I run 308% Ability Strength so my health is pretty high and constantly restoring it via my motes. Probably going to rework my build when Prime is out but for now it's a good one.

I've seen those threads too and that's why this one is so long. I feel that you need to go into detail as well as explain why it is a problem rather than just complain the problem exists and offer nothing to help solve that problem. It is a problem and it's one that needs to be discussed.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

Without shield gating SP it would be unplayable. End of discussion

[FBalfour]

4 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Without shield gatling SP it would be unplayable. End of discussion

Shield Gatling sounds cool. Unfortunately Rapid-Fire Hildryn doesn't exist (as far as I know). If you're talking about Shield Gating, though? My entire existence proves you wrong. I enjoy running around SP with Kullervo, Nidus, and Unkillberon (no shields, no shield gating. There is only Pain and those too weak to seek it.)

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Great post. You cover a lot, and there is a lot here I agree with, especially in spirit. There is also a lot here... that I don't disagree with necessarily, especially because you included a good amount of qualifiers to give context to what you mean more exactly, but I also think in being so specific, overlook certain ideas. For example, the meta in terms of video game ideas and definitions, can have a few stricter and looser definitions. The idea that there are people that blindly follow a meta and how that can be a very negative thing, I definitely agree with, but I mean, of course, blindly doing a lot of things often is inherently harmful, also depending on what one means by the meta, well its not effective to be blind when approaching it, because the meta is achieved by understanding, experience and knowledge, then execution. Being blind or lacking any of those other variables, can be an inherently flawed experience or approach. Also sometimes, the ideas present within the meta can be contextual or relative. Compare consistency VS potential highs/best results. Then also consider other factors, like casualness, friendliness, sincerity. Friendly solo players who invest in their own play style can indirectly move towards a meta of sorts, even if their priority and goal is to have fun. Experience often invites effectiveness.

Half the time I play its solo, the other half is split 80 to 20, between PUB and premade. Personally I prioritise fun, and certain somewhat niche aspects of the game, a lot of people may not care for. For example, I often like sound design of weapons, or uniqueness. Weapons like the Exergis, Veldt, Kuva Chakkur, Trumna, I'll play because I love the sound, feel, design of the weapons. Whether they were meta or not, I wouldn't care, however... I'd still personally try to optimise them as best as I could for my playstyle, because I'd want them to be as effective in as many situations as I'd want them, including harder Steel Path difficulties. Which I could and did, since Warframe often allows that with how the game is designed. So in a way, I still valued certain ideas that heavily overlap with meta ideas and strategies. 

Seperate from the meta ideas though, there is also how people interact and treat others as well. How they cooperate, conform, deviate, antagonise, pacify, tolerate, include, exclude, compromise, and many other types of interactions and attitudes can be important and alter interactions we all have with each other. For example, you mentioned some players who hold the idea of a "Camp meta" in Survival. Definitions around what may constitute a small, medium, or large room may differ, but personally? What sort of room I prefer playing in, and how, may depend on what Warframe I am using. There are certain spots of maps I consider better than others anecdotally. I'd say the biggest flaw and issue with the behaviour of those you describe with the camping meta, isn't actually a blind devotion to a meta, but basic and common courtesy towards other players, and.... understanding the meta often requires teamwork and team synergy, as well as active enthusiasm and participation from others. Since lets say hypothetically, they were in another part of the game, employing a strategy that was actually the meta in a more cut and dry way. I'd still be critical of them trying to force or pester another player to conform to what they want. Though at the same time, friendly communication and discussion and pleas for team work but showing and having respect for others choices and agency, would be fine to myself. For example Eidolon Hunts. You don't want someone to grab all the Lures at once and run off, but if they are sincere and new, guidance is better than trying to hit them over the hear with meta ideas. 

So I personally think there should be a larger emphasis on players attitudes and behaviour as far as interacting with each other in general. After all meta is basically adapted from game theory (as in not video games, but the mathematical analysis of scenarios involving independent players/parties in respect to their decisions/strategies. Which then thus has application in, well everything, really, anything that involves humans, social sciences, finance, logic. 

Another example is with your Kullervo example. I took Kullervo into a Steel Path Void T4 Relic Exterminate, without even levelling them. I survived just fine... did I baulk at others ideas of his survivability? Well no, I needed more testing. Playing in a group for example, is far different than playing solo, playing with an effective weapon or load out is different to playing relying more on your powers. "In the right hands", sure, but not all comparisons need to be between different players, they can also be comparisons between ones own experiences. With enough sweaty dedication, and set up, the right hands can make the objectively weakest stats weapon work okay, doesn't necessarily mean those right hands will have fun. Could I personally survive with Kullervo? Yes, but I also found surviving with Gyre pretty easy as well in Steel Path, aware that some people think its impossible. That being said, Kullervo felt much more inconsistent with his survival, and thats not an inherently bad thing, but for many it can lead to less fun experience overall. Could leave him as it is, and consider that a defining aspect of the character, great DPS, but survival requires you to be relatively more attentive (for some), but also benefits to also addressing that part of his kit, if it means seeing more general usage. This is where ideas like glass canon or squishyness can come in and mean different things to different people. Also how much do people want to accommodate other peoples meanings, even if they still disagree overall. 

So just for extra clarity, none of above is really disagreeing with you, just adding a few of my own thoughts, I mostly agree with your points and consider them well made, especially about certain entitled attitudes some have, as in "I got mine, screw you" and then how they treat newer players or players who just want to be more fun and casual. There are a few points you made, where, I don't know what you mean too exactly, to agree or disagree, mostly because you emphasis the negative aspects of something and how certain specific players can be (shield gating for example), where as I can agree with your examples, just don't view them as exclusively the only examples, therefore I can have a more neutral outlook, depending on what other examples I consider. Likewise, some of the most friendly and helpful players in this Forum, that I have seen, have been Limbo mains. I couldn't be so general in my assessment of them, even if there are some players that are toxic. 

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

40 minutes ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

Shield gating has some potential in certain very precise situations but I find it's very rare to be properly one shot even at mega high levels with a good team/build. If something's going to drop me, it's either my own hubris or a stray toxin/fire DoT which shield-gating does nothing for. That's why I run a Djinn (with Reawaken and Sacrifice) and Last Gasp because it's silly to never expect to drop but I'm for sure getting back up again. With Wisp I run Archon Vitality for the health but also to be able use my 4 as a better deathbeam. While I'm not trying to shield-gate per say, she does have pretty low shields and I run 308% Ability Strength so my health is pretty high and constantly restoring it via my motes. Probably going to rework my build when Prime is out but for now it's a good one.

I've seen those threads too and that's why this one is so long. I feel that you need to go into detail as well as explain why it is a problem rather than just complain the problem exists and offer nothing to help solve that problem. It is a problem and it's one that needs to be discussed.

Nah, I don't think I will.

[RichardKam]

2分钟前 , gamingchair1121 说:

the fact that DE has still not fully solved trolling with limbo after nine years, even after a rework, is just absurd

literally all they need to do is just let allies bypass the rift, that's it. not saying that I know how exactly the rift is coded, but if it's how I would assume, it would at most only take redoing how rift damage absorption is calculated (like how you can't hit across the rift with weapons), and make allies ignore that part of it. almost all abilities do this already, it really shouldn't be that hard to get teammate's weapons doing the same.

We are going off topic here but for Limbo......the root cause is the mechanism of the rift itself.

Aware that Limbo is the only frame having such ability? Alternative dimension stacking on each other? Because, I dare say, it was a mistake. It does not work in coop setting.

By itself Limbo is a nice solo frame. Rift walking is perfect for CC and survivability. You go into the rift, nothing touches you. You pick some enemies into the rift and snap finger, they CC'd. You caste a spell, area of effect CC. The idea is great, but it does not work well with teammates because they have other ways of survivability and dealing damage without relying on the rift. Once you put the rift into your teammates game play, you inevitably mess up their formula.

Unless this game was built with the rift being a fundamental mechanism, something like every frame and enemies has some innate interaction with the rift, otherwise it won't work. 

btw after 9 years I still do not know how his 3 works. I mean I know how it works on paper, but how do I use it in game play? Shall I just randomly caste 3 on enemies? When the rift propagates, shall I stay in the rift or out of the rift for the best benefit? When and how should I use it?

[CoffeeElemental]

5 часов назад, A-Flying-Brick сказал:

the camping meta on Survival missions

Ugh, that made me shudder. One of the most boring ways to play the game.

[ReddyDisco]

Following meta is a fast track to burn out

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

My only annoyance with Meta

is how often it means using a Faction Bane mod.

now, I don't disagree, that truly is a huge damage boost

I just Hate having to swap out the Bane Mod when I switch between different missions.

 

Kinda wishing they didn't exist, doesn't really add anything to the game

and the tradeoff of Power vs Annoyance is kind a bad game design. Annoyance should Never be an intentional balancing factor.

[A-Flying-Brick]

25 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Without shield gatling SP it would be unplayable. End of discussion

Personally I've both used and witnessed plenty of builds that are perfectly fine on SP without shield-gating. While it can be a challenge, it's not "unplayable" if you don't shield-gate. You just need to use the time, effort and a little trial and error to see what works for you rather than blindly copying others. The whole point of this thread.

The fact to you there's no discussion to be had proves that yes there needs to be a discussion.

The problem is some people want a single "do everything" frame/build but the game is not designed that way. Sure this one stratergy might get you through some SP, it doesn't help the others who are with you. The other players who need to build around you because heaven help them if they dare run anything that doesn't complement that very particular build.

If you run it solo, good on you. It doesn't change the fact that others can do it without relying on shield-gating.

6 minutes ago, (PSN)EntityPendragon said:

Nah, I don't think I will.

That's fine, you do you. It's what's working for me but it is a bit of joke build. Like I said, probably going to re-do once the prime is out. Another method is go Umbra mods for plenty of health and armour. Costly but it's not bad if you want to survive without completely relying on shield-gating. Wisp has great healing numbers so it's not bad to have a lot of health.

The problem is many people insist that Wisp is only a healer. She is a wonderful DPS with enough healing to keep her and her team pushing ahead. Sure she can be classed as disruptive but that can be worked around with good communication. The problem is everyone is told from day 1 "this is Wisp, she is the best healer and nothing else" so anyone who isn't just healing is playing her wrong. Her 4 is great for spewing damage, shock motes actively prevent enemies from attacking and she can teliport to motes. She's a hovering warcrime and I can't wait for her prime. Yes I have used her on SP and Archon Hunts.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

Could randomized base stats for Warframes prevent meta build videos from over-accelerating the journey for newer players? I imagine it would be loads of fun for vets to reroll their frames' stats to try crazy builds. It's a PVE game, so it really just adds more variety. For sane people why sleep at least. 

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

31 minutes ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

That's fine, you do you. It's what's working for me but it is a bit of joke build. Like I said, probably going to re-do once the prime is out. Another method is go Umbra mods for plenty of health and armour. Costly but it's not bad if you want to survive without completely relying on shield-gating. Wisp has great healing numbers so it's not bad to have a lot of health.

The problem is many people insist that Wisp is only a healer. She is a wonderful DPS with enough healing to keep her and her team pushing ahead. Sure she can be classed as disruptive but that can be worked around with good communication. The problem is everyone is told from day 1 "this is Wisp, she is the best healer and nothing else" so anyone who isn't just healing is playing her wrong. Her 4 is great for spewing damage, shock motes actively prevent enemies from attacking and she can teliport to motes. She's a hovering warcrime and I can't wait for her prime. Yes I have used her on SP and Archon Hunts.

I perceived your reply negatively originally. My apologies.

Your response on Wisp made me quite happy, cause this is the most correct take on Wisp. 

My build forgoes any survivability mods (Rolling guard and all that.) Carnis Carapace and Adaptation is all I got on my build and the rest is focused on a build that pushes for hybrid team/solo build. Despite rarely ever running in a team. Shield gating before filled that tiny little gap that I can't cover sometimes when involved with Blitz Eximus so I get one shot. Nowadays my experience with Wisp allows me to instinctually activate Will O Wisp invulnerability instantly and filly that gap. My energy problems are solved with Archon Stretch as I normally run Unairu out of habit.

My original response didn't really have much thought put into it so I must apologize once more.

I also offer a slight change to my opinion on shield gating. I still believe that gating should still exist, however I understand that the unbearable voice that mutters it's 'NEED' is quite annoying and is often toxic. My proposed solution would be one of two. 1. (The cheapest option) Try to ignore those that shove it down your and others throat and provide the best information to those who are without the info. The second (Definitely the most expensive and probably most unfeasible) Would be to push for DE to either give more survivability options or outright improve the warframes survivability as a whole (The ones that rely on gating, only one that comes to mind would be saryn.) 

In the end it really is just impossible to get rid of such toxic people, cause they just exist with or without reason.

I should note once again that I rarely do any sort of SP team stuff anymore due to encountering survival camping. So all of what I do and what I base everything on is mostly just solo.
------
I gave some input since I felt like I wanted to, but you can ignore my take if you want cause we already have ground that we both heavily believe in, the lovely Wisp <3.
 

[FishMcCool]

Shield gating is honestly super effective. So is Vazarin spam. It is, however, a lot of effort that I can't be bothered with. It's not a diss on whoever plays like that though, more power to them, and it certainly makes a night and day difference at the very high end. Here I just love my armour/health/parkour tanking, and it's good enough to work for everything as long as you don't aim for level 999 SP. The game is brilliantly easy once you reach a solid mod inventory, and it's part of what makes it so fun. Pick any frame, any weapons, and with enough forma, you'll be able to do almost everything.

I have rarely encountered any toxicity in game, mind. Like, over multiple years, I can remember one occasion of a player hilariously raging about my (pre-rework) Grendel and a Gauss being brought to ESO, a few camping/no-camping debates in nightwave 30 minutes survival (I don't really like camping, but if the team insists and there's a decent spot like the big circular Lua room, I won't ruin it), and... I think that's about it? Oh no, there's also the occasional cursing at the objective being nuked in radiation sorties or the spy sorties failed because a Monke Prime without Perspicacity decided to crash into a vault someone else was already clearing, triggering every alert. But these aren't meta related and kind of valid reasons for some ephemeral raging (which typically subsides 10s after the mission failed screen). I know for sure I never heard anything about Titania, neither for me nor squadmates, so hopefully your experience is rather rare.

edit: oh, obviously, Eidolon pub squads used to be toxicity central, but that has mostly gone with power creep, since a single solid build can easily carry a squad through it.

[gamingchair1121]

1 hour ago, RichardKam said:

We are going off topic here but for Limbo......the root cause is the mechanism of the rift itself.

Aware that Limbo is the only frame having such ability? Alternative dimension stacking on each other? Because, I dare say, it was a mistake. It does not work in coop setting.

By itself Limbo is a nice solo frame. Rift walking is perfect for CC and survivability. You go into the rift, nothing touches you. You pick some enemies into the rift and snap finger, they CC'd. You caste a spell, area of effect CC. The idea is great, but it does not work well with teammates because they have other ways of survivability and dealing damage without relying on the rift. Once you put the rift into your teammates game play, you inevitably mess up their formula.

Unless this game was built with the rift being a fundamental mechanism, something like every frame and enemies has some innate interaction with the rift, otherwise it won't work. 

this has made me realize that not only can limbo single off enemies for only himself to deal with, but limbo's entire survivability in his base kit is completely useless for other frames that can just tank the damage (which is most of them)

exactly why something needs to be done already

1 hour ago, RichardKam said:

btw after 9 years I still do not know how his 3 works. I mean I know how it works on paper, but how do I use it in game play? Shall I just randomly caste 3 on enemies? When the rift propagates, shall I stay in the rift or out of the rift for the best benefit? When and how should I use it?

there's a ton of combos you can do like 4/3/4 (mass aoe rift), rift enemy/3/hold 1/3 (chain rift surge across a large area), 4/3--- (cataclysm shrinking triggers rift surge). also when you kill a surged enemy in the rift, that surge will transfer to a nearby enemy in the material (I know it says that in the description of the ability, but I only found out that that's what that is a few weeks ago lol).

if using the rift purely for utility (like crate nuking, mass rifting enemies, or even just the free energy), mod for max range and at least neutral duration, or whatever the helminth ability wants you to mod for since abilities bypass the rift. for using it to defend, mod for the necessary range (100-145 for area defense (interception), or as low as you can get for single point (mobile defense, excavation) and have as high of a duration as you feel comfortable with.

for defense based missions, just use the usual high duration/neg range build with 4/2, stay in the rift just outside of the cataclysm (roughly 5-25m away), killing eximus as needed

for interception, use good range and high duration. do the usual 4/2 on first tower and capture the rest, waiting for the enemies to gather at the first tower. once all enemies are there, suck them in with magus anomaly if you have it (really good with limbo btw), then keep refreshing rift surge on them to keep them in the rift without cataclysm up. you don't want cataclysm up so you can save the energy for rift surge and stasis (of course you can always kill one of them to get some energy, but that risks spawning more enemies and losing a tower). also I would recommend killing eximus as soon as you can.

for boss fights, archon showdowns or hijack missions, do 4/3/4 with high range to send all nearby enemies to the rift, casting 3 and unbanishing to keep them there and spread rift status. if you ever need energy, just go in the rift and kill one of the enemies for a free 10 energy.

for hijack specifically, stay on the objective, both you and the enemies in the rift (energy gain), block bullets with your melee (enemies can't hurt the objective from the other plane, but you can't banish the hijack objective, so you banish the enemies instead, and since you're blocking with your melee, you can't take damage anyway).

any missions with a hostage like sortie/archon defense and defection, use rift haven to heal them. can do this for rescue, but you don't really need to if you're fast enough.

spy missions just use untraceable on your parazon and stay in the rift, you literally have to be trying to trigger the alarms lol

basically if you need a ton of energy for abilities, stay in the rift, but if you don't really need energy or you have a ton of enemies in the rift to get energy from, you can stay in the material if you need to

 

also some helminth abilities you might want to know about, pillage over stasis and molt over rift surge

molt can be banished, making it very useful for when protecting a second area, or even just for more survivability with the aggro drawing

pillage works very well with him, allowing him to do missions that you'd never expect a limbo to go to, like exterminate and assassination. if you're wondering why over stasis, pillage and stasis are both forms of survivability, as well as scenarios where he benefits from pillage the most (boss fights) being best done using banish, rift surge, and cataclysm, but little use of stasis. even better with how you can get free energy from the rift (with max efficiency, just wait three seconds and you can cast again). would recommend low strength so you can keep recasting on the same enemies to keep getting shields. the status clear is also helpful if rolling guard is on cooldown.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

2 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

I just Hate having to swap out the Bane Mod when I switch between different missions.

this is why I refuse to run Bane mods, and just mod for the elements that faction is mostly weak to. abilities and raw physical damage makes up the difference, and It's not like I'm running to the level cap every game. granted, there are configs, but I save those for meme builds.

as for the meta, I wouldn't get worked up about it. people who blindly follow it aren't worth your time and stress, and meta usually leads to misery and boredom from the game become so braindead easy, and then when something they use gets nerfed, or even slightly tweaked.. well, it's fun to watch the salt flow. :) 

[KernelWizard]

I don't like camping in survival too, that one I gotta admit. Though as a revenant main I just 'spinning goes brrrr' and spins everywhere and then people were saying something in the chat (it got censored anyway) and I was like whatever and continue my spinning lmao. I mean I barely check the chat during missions anyway. There was this one time a guy was ranting about something (censored again), and I was like, "Just shut up and go complain somewhere else," and another guy in the group laughed hahah. I also never complain to anyone about anything, if they're taking a bit long I'm just pulling out my shawzin and maybe play a few songs while waiting, that's good practice (alright I wanna show off too hahah).

[Voltage]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

MBR ( meta brain rot) is a problem in the playerbase, cause people are playing this game like a job instead of a video game

If only the game wasn't adding more mechanisms for it to feel this way. You can't just point at players and blame them for everything wrong with how the game is played. Warframe requires lots of time to progress. Time is valuable. People don't go for quick methods of clearing enemies/missions just because, they do so because the game teaches you to do that.

[Drachnyn]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb A-Flying-Brick:

While it's a bit of a conspiracy theory, just remember the Riven Mafia is a thing.

Lmao imagine believing the riven mafia is a real thing that has real influence.

vor 9 Stunden schrieb A-Flying-Brick:

Which threatens the shield-gating meta and the value of rare shield mods like Brief Respite

14 plat on warframe market. Incredible value.

vor 9 Stunden schrieb A-Flying-Brick:

Another example of negative metas is the camping meta on Survival missions. Camping lowers the number of kills you can get because all the spawns have to travel to the corner all the players are in. This often leads to not enough life support dropping. Another flaw with this plan is that it is very easy for certain units to rush that corner, particularly Infested Ospreys and Eximus units. Trying to explain that to meta players is like pulling teeth because "that's not how it works" or "it's the meta to camp". A much better option is to find a large open room (more doors the better) where life support modules are. There's a few each map and you can always move if all the life support is used up. But you will always get meta players who will sit in a corner, pulling spawns (making less life support drop for the big room) and ruining it for others. Sure high damage builds can deal with those units but there is still not enough life support. It can no longer drop from Warframe abilities that cause extra drops and it's drop rate has be drastically nerfed as well. You need to get out there and get kills.

This tells me you have no idea how to properly camp and think that any dead end room is equally viable to use for camping.

You want to present yourself as a lot more knowledgeable than all those meta sheep but your post proves to opposite.

[Legatus_Rhino]

We had a blast that time!

[(PSN)adachi_2]

10 hours ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

Limbo and the players who use him are the absolute worst.

bro, what did we do?

[KIREEK]

10 hours ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

While it's a bit of a conspiracy theory, just remember the Riven Mafia is a thing.

Don't take everything you hear as something serious, remember that no matter how many alt accounts one has to store rivens and how much riven capacity you have, you can only hold a tiny % of the rivens in the game, you literally can't even make a dent.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

10 hours ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

Top 25% iirc, but I feel like those numbers are inflated by her commonplace use in certain mission types like Void Flood and Mirror Defence. She's a solid frame but can be a bit squishy. Also sufferes greatly if there's a Wisp or Volt spamming speed. Ask me how I know...

Doubt her number is due to those two missions. Pretty sure her usage number came out before Mirror Defense was a thing, and to even access Void Flood you'd have to complete all of the Story Missions which I doubt even 25% of the active player base has even done. 

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, A-Flying-Brick said:

A lot of people ask "what is meta?", you'll hear people say it stands for "Most Effective Tactic Available" which is not the case, especially in Warframe. Metagaming is a stratergy where you use knowledge gained from outside of the game to craft a better strategy. It's observing others then experimenting with what's available to succeed and advance. Not running Wukong Limbo Octavia Revenant because that's the "agreed upon" meta this week.

That kinda only applies to PnP RPGs where meta knowledge allows players or GMs to do stupid things they shouldnt be able to do. In WF and other farming games meta is indeed "most effective tactic available" or "most effective tactical approach", since is often refers to TTK for bosses or how much loot you can gain per minute and so on with different combinations and min-maxing compared to others. It's often also not something bad, however in WF it is a ridiculous term to use because we are so far beyond the power curve that it doesnt matter if we dont go with the meta.

It kinda makes me think back on the guides years ago regarding not slotting armor, shield and health mods, since "you'll die anyways". And many noobs used these guides and wondered why they struggled in low content. Well it could be because these builds were made for content where you couldnt take a hit without dying, and using these builds if your intent wasnt to push to those levels was straight up stupid and pointless. 

And it is also seen these days with shield gate cheese, where people are under some assumption that SP isnt doable without making use of it. Which is such a silly idea since many of us sit and do SP for hours in "non-meta" setups. So I always wonder when people claim SP is undoable without shield gate cheese, do they only ever do level cap or several upon several hour long runs? I mean, you need to go on for quite a while before every hitting up mobs that pose a threat towards something that relies on HP and armor instead of the shield gate. I tend to get drudgey and bored after about 2 hours or so, and I've yet to experience a situation where I feel like my armor and hp arent enough combined with my sustain and the movement of the game.

With the addition of shards pretty much any frame can get to a point where they can reliably make use of armor and HP to get through SP content for a good while. However people are again back to the point where they stress over missed stats. Like "cant use red shards!" or something else to increase power/damage. Both being things you likely wont need more of in the first place unless you plan on pushing ridiculously far in endless on a constant basis. I used to run a maxed out strength Chroma and Rhino, I dropped it a good while ago since it felt utterly pointless for the content I ran. These days I aim for softcaps, maxed efficiency then range and/or duration as needed, with a few exceptions, like Lavos where I just go ape on range, strength, hp and armor while keeping duration neutral and efficiency negative.

[Shenra]

8 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

I just Hate having to swap out the Bane Mod when I switch between different missions.

You don't really need a bane for corpus or infested so just keep either the grineer or corrupted bane equipped for which ever faction you usually fight. I always just kept the grineer one and never changed it and I have no issues.