Echoes of Duviri: Hotfix 33.6.4

[KrainKron]

For sure it's the best possible way.

Nerf Styanax in the point when he only can spam 4 on infinite loop to survive at high lvls. We don't need running in such mobile gameplay. Only spam your 4 in one place.

Tanks are not tanks at high lvls but only one shot dummies. We don't need any armour/health rework. Only KEYS! Only I, Vor.............

The most squishy frames are the most tanky frames at high lvls. God bless shieldgate. Skillful stuff.

Do you want to play tank as it was designed? No way. We have no tanks in this game. Are you sure you want more than 20 waves? It's not how it was designed. No tanks, no fun. Go shieldgate. It's sooooo skillefule...

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

I didn't notice this. Even then, I don't believe it needs immediate attention. I find bringing incarnon weapons to the normal star chart highly inefficient in the first place. Not sure if this should be addressed at all even as this is asking for a game mechanic change just because it doesn't suit your needs.

 

 

51 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

The person you quoted wasn't specific enough.  What's happening is that multishot is seemingly handled sequentially.  So any damage instance that kills the target will prevent any other multishot instances from colliding with the head and building more charges.  This has always been the case to an extent, but before Kullervo dropped we could still get some damage  instances to collide after the target was dead.  So the Incarnon charging system was much more forgiving, especially against weaker enemies, than it is now.

To see what I'm talking about, compare charging up on low level non-SP enemies versus high level SP.  The difference is really stark.

edit: Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.  Although if you meant that multi is directly decreasing the amount of charge you get per trigger pull, AFAIK that isn't the case.  What can happen is that multi is a little less valuable than it would otherwise be.
 

 

[ShogunGunshow]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

Why are we nerfing Styanax when we just got Revenant Prime Access and Mesmer Shield? Mesmer Skin is even more trivial to keep active than Wukong's old Defy, and it is infinitely better than any source of Overguard.

This is the ultimate problem with the buff to that stupid ability: any other nerf to survivability is essentially unjustifiable while it remains in its current state.

That's also why y'all should understand that Mesmer Skin WILL get nerfed eventually. DE is just doing the usual DE mistake of taking too long and letting players grow reliant and feeling entitled to it. 

[McRibbles]

26 minutes ago, quxier said:

I guess you are not supposed to use 4th too often.

[StalkerGlutes]

1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Overguard granted by Frost’s Icy Avalanche Augment Mod now stacks on cast (up to 15k, which scales with Ability Strength) instead of keeping the highest value from the original or recast. 

LET’S FRIGGIN GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Tiltskillet]

3 minutes ago, Ghastly-Ghoul said:

I didn't notice this. Even then, I don't believe it needs immediate attention. I find bringing incarnon weapons to the normal star chart highly inefficient in the first place. Not sure if this should be addressed at all even as this is asking for a game mechanic change just because it doesn't suit your needs.

I wasn't complaining; just explaining.  I have mixed feelings about whether it should be addressed or not.  On the one hand, I do think it's silly that people are complaining about how hard Incarnon weapons are to charge in, say, Neo Fissures and the like.  On the other, it affects some weapons far more than others, and it's a bit silly that the way the system works isn't more transparent.

 

[Leqesai]

4 minutes ago, Upright1 said:

LET’S FRIGGIN GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[KitMeHarder]

2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Overguard Changes:

I was fine with (and to a degree, expecting) the Styanax nerf, but mainly if it came along with a fix to one of Overguard's biggest problems. That being, that numerous abilities can not proc with damage dealt to a player's Overguard.

• Equinox's Peaceful Provocation augment
• Grendel's Nourish viral counterattack
• Chroma's electric Elemental Ward
• Etc...

And with Decrees and Styanax, this is a bigger problem than it's ever been.

[Erra]

I am disappointed that Incarnon charge from Multishot still has not been fixed.

For any weapon with multishot, any projectiles that hit the enemy after they've been killed will not count towards Incarnon.

This started happening after a change was made that disabled corpses from giving charge.

This breaks multi-shot charging and has other problems:

• Incarnon charge for each weapon were balanced before this, so now it feels terrible.
• Shotguns suffer the most from this. If a pellet hits the body and kills the enemy, any pellets that hit the head afterwards do not charge.
• For any multi-shot projectile that the client cannot predict an enemy kill from, they can give more charge to clients like before because the enemy will remain alive until the kill is replicated to the client.

"Corpses were never meant to give Incarnon charge"

That's okay. At least let them give charge for only 0.1s after death so that multi-shot charging isn't broken.

There is an active thread on this bug.

[Monolake]

2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

trivialize challenging content and limit future design space

Revenant and his aug laughs in your face.

[Hodor_Roe]

Hi, please address the sorry state of Secondary Shiver and Incarnon Sibear's Ice Field on slam. Secondary Shiver does not function as described, and the Ice Field from Incarnon Sibear slams is practically non-existent. I was really excited about both of these items and am incredibly disappointed to see the lack of attention these issues are getting.

[SngLol]

Reverse the new Overguard cap. It really ruined all my Overguard builds. the cap is extremely low compared to what I could usually get and it would still deplete to zero from time to time. This new cap has me thinking of trashing all my builds focusing Overguard, because it's no longer useful. I'm going back to Revenant, at least I can trust that.

[KIREEK]

2 hours ago, Voltage said:

Why are we nerfing Styanax when we just got Revenant Prime Access and Mesmer Shield? Mesmer Skin is even more trivial to keep active than Wukong's old Defy, and it is infinitely better than any source of Overguard.

DE watches youtubers, so they are a good hint on what's getting nerfed.
They get views before the video is obsolete and DE balances things out, both parties "win".

[whatstheBeezu]

Still no mention to Pathocyst charged throw heavy attack damage bug.

[AJAL8000]

Wait, they haven't fixed the Latron's "Double Tap" mod yet? Is it so difficult to fix? They have forgotten about this weapon. It has been bugged since the weapon came out!!

It bothers me more that the bug got worse instead of improving these last updates.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

2 hours ago, Doomelf said:

There are higher levels than 9999. And level 200 enemies don't one shot a 15k overguard unless are standing still and being a punching bag. Getting one shotted with shield gate and overguard is a skill issue.

Clearly you've never played Styanax. Using his 4 suspends him in midair and effectively makes him a sitting duck. You can't cast other abilities or dodge roll until he's done throwing his javelins. It doesn't take much for enemies to completely shred through his overguard, shields and his health in between casts, because he also needs to land on the ground to recast his 4.

Having a lot of overguard was at least a nice buffer. Now he's about as useless as a chocolate fireguard, 

[Numerounius]

2 hours ago, Voltage said:

Jackal is one of the fastest stages. Lone Story also doesn't scale. I much rather take Jackal during Pathos Clamps farming than Survival.

That's not the point, the point is because of how challenging it is in both scenarios not how fast it is.

[Lord_Khaavren]

My comment was wrong. So I removed it. They just worded it poorly in the notes.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Lord_Khaavren

[VCen7]

Thanks for the Wisp prime fix :D

But there is still a problem with the prime model.

Don't get me wrong but, her posterior looks so shrunken :/

 

[Limelight143]

Thanks! I was actually also looking forward to seeing changes made to that obnoxious "Garuda - Thermal Sunder" build that has been plaguing pub runs. 

[Politically_Correct_Name]

I want to give credit where it is due, thank you all at Warframe dev team for fixing this operator bug.  This was the most frustrating few weeks ive ever had on Warframe and thought for sure I would be putting up with this S#&$ for several months.  Please for the love of all things holy dont #*!% this up when you do the final tweak to it, its not perfect but the real problem is completely fixed which is the lingering transference issue.  Also the Angstrum change was very needed, it felt ridiculous having to aim 10 feet over an enemies head to charge with head shots.  I hear the gorgon fix was needed but have no personal experience with that one. 

Thanks again fellas, whoever was in charge of getting this addresses oughta head over and get the testing departments ass in gear.  So much work is being created by releasing things before basic tests are ran on gameplay fixes and changes.  Make a change to the game, try it out before releasing it busted.  

I'd normally end a post like this with "X, Y, Z is still broken blah blah"  but im just so grateful this transference bug is gone I cant even think of any other bugs right now.

[Hexerin]

6 hours ago, MobyTheDuck said:

Multishot still not giving incarnon charges and breaking stealth.

Not sure what you're talking about with the stealth, but the multishot issue has pretty much killed the entire incarnon system for me. No point investing time and resources into something that doesn't even work correctly. On top of that, the requirement of specifically headshots is just obnoxious. I have no problems with the concept behind that, rewarding skill is absolutely based. However, they need to also gain charge from body/limb shots.

The obvious way to handle that is make body/limb shots grant 1 charge, while headshots grant like 3 or 5 charges. Increase the total charge capacity, but reduce the ammo per charge so that you still end up with the same (or close to same) total ammo in incarnon mode. This way nothing changes for those who get headshots, but those who don't/can't (accessibility for those with physical disabilities, anyone?) can also actually have proper fun with the system.

[KitMeHarder]

6 hours ago, Voltage said:

Why are we nerfing Styanax when we just got Revenant Prime Access and Mesmer Shield? Mesmer Skin is even more trivial to keep active than Wukong's old Defy, and it is infinitely better than any source of Overguard.

6 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

But why do you see the problem with it but are fine with Mesmer Skin and Mesmer Shield?

• Coop-wise, Styanax's is much stronger. Revenant cast Mesmer Skin way less often than Styanax cast Final Stand (his bread-and-butter damage source). Add in overguard gate, and the other 3 players are waaay tankier.
  • It also means it's basically free to cast (aka not the main point of the ability).
• After this hotfix, overguard provides more status/CC immunity than MS does.
• Styanax's overguard can not be nullified by any source, unlike MS and its aug.
• MS does worse in lower levels, but Styanax's does good in low and high levels thanks to overguard gate.
• Etc...

And MS also has some upsides, but at least as a support tool for 99% of the game, Styanax's way better (even for that 1%, constant overguard gate is pretty good).

[Amolistic.]

8 hours ago, SplitzyPrime said:

Reverse the overguard cap, thats actually so lame. Do you know that enemies at only like level 200 one shot 15,000 overguard? theres 9999 levels.  Being one shot isnt fun gameplay/ You guys also didnt fix the telos boltor incarnon bugging out telos boltor, so galvanized aptitude applies 1x for each stack of ammo (7800% damage boost per status effect), i want to see how the gun actually performs without being so bugged and overpowered.

The problem is the regen/overguard gain speed. Uncapped or not, the falloff range is still the same, regen type overguard gets deleted quick anyway after extended SP runs, regardless of the cap, not like your 60 base overguard per spear hit is going to last long if its uncapped.

If you cant gain faster than its drain, even uncapped is not going to save you even by a little.

The overguard gate is the main dish here, that thing lets you take one hit, regardless how big the dmg is, toxin or not, you can tank it, once (0.5s) per gate.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Amolistic.

[Amolistic.]

7 hours ago, Voltage said:

Why are we nerfing Styanax when we just got Revenant Prime Access and Mesmer Shield? Mesmer Skin is even more trivial to keep active than Wukong's old Defy, and it is infinitely better than any source of Overguard.

Who tf recast mesmer skin frequent just to support your teammates???? You might as well press large radius CC abilities like whatever meta CC you can subsume on and still get the support done, I already said, mesmer shield is only great, when you cast mesmer, if they get, they get. Expired? No care. Revenant is not supposed to be put into danger, just like rhino.

Do you see any dmg mitigation supports like gara 2 or nezha halo putting themselves in danger? No.

Recasting mesmer skin puts revenant in immense danger due to vulnerable when cast bro, and imagine doing it every 5-10s. Rolling guard only works every 10s. You essentially lower yourself so much to be a far worse tank vs a fully optimized rhino's iron skin charge mechanics rolling guard rhino stomp shenanigans by doing this, and what is the point of doing it? Its not like you are going to be the best support in game with this, and put yourself in constant danger so your teammates can undead for 5s...

 

Plus constant overguard gate is a thing. Because how often styanax and frost cast their 4, the support capabilities just outshine mesmer shield as a whole due to frequency, for frost, 1 cast, even in level cap, is equivalent to one hit, and consider rolling guard can stall overguard, if your teammate know this, they can stall the overguard for an additional 3s, every time they gain a new overguard.

If you know the tech, their support capabilities are pretty real, making them near top supports, competing with wisp citrine rhino harrow, etc.

fyi, mesmer skin, like pre-overguard iron skin, is not complete status immune (slow CCs from enemies), some stlll affect him, but overguard is truly, all status immune.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Amolistic.