The price of Heirloom skins is incredibly disappointing.

[(PSN)Noxage]

This is my first time even visiting these forums, I came here just to say that with the price of this pack they REALLY do see us as “registered losers”

 

I’m done with this game I’m afraid if it goes down this route.

 

Exclusive AND costs a fortune, to top it off can’t even buy with plat (why???)

 

Lmao no thanks.

[Leqesai]

9 minutes ago, (XBOX)ForcedGecko632 said:

You are welcome to, but I doubt it will really do you much good. If you value the cosmetics that highly, go for it! As I said, I'm just a bearer of an opinion here, and disgruntled. However you go about it, I hope it doesn't lead to you feeling buyers remorse in the end, and I hope you continue to enjoy the game. I use frost pretty constantly, as it's my #2 fav to play, so, sure I'd love for it to look cooler(buh-dum-bum), but the price is just too hot for my blood.

My point is, the talk of boycotting and whatnot just makes it look like a more worthwhile purchase IMO. I don't much like people being excessively dramatic about this kind of thing. It reeks of entitlement. 

I may not think the pack is worth it but that's why I simply wouldn't purchase it and move on instead of coming onto the forums to make a big stink about how I feel personally offended by their business decisions. 

So even though I might not think its a good value, knowing it includes the salty tears of people's toxic entitlement? That makes it worth it.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

58 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Uhh... are you sure you meant to reply to my post? I wasn't talking about the free stuff at all.

Your reply went into a detailed break down of the Heirloom packs, which is what we're currently discussing. And my reply to you was about that.

You even took the phrase 'instead of offering us the skins' out of context.

In context I said that the Heirloom Packs are the first non-Tennogen real money purchase, and that they've not actually offered a pack that is just the Skins, they've packed Regal Aya into the packs.

It wasn't about getting anything for free. It was about the way they've put the packs together to make sure that anyone who actually wants the Skins, instead of the emotes and sigils, has to buy Regal Aya too, which jacks the price up.

As for this person:

I beg your pardon, who's pretending?

And stop trying to twist the words. I didn't say they don't need the money, I said they don't need the money this way.

We are perfectly willing to pay for the products we want. But DE are not selling us the products we want without artificially increasing the price with products we don't want.

If you can't even understand that basic of a reply to your point, then you're genuinely not in the position to assume that other people are wrong about the basic application of logic to the situation.

Have a look for your reply that begins with:

"Okay, you've addressed this from the monetisation value point of view, but this completely ignores the procedure they've used."

So, yes. You replied to me, I replied to you. I'm not entirely sure where the confusion could be coming from, unless you replied to the wrong person yourself with that post.

[PublikDomain]

6 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

So even though I might not think its a good value, knowing it includes the salty tears of people's toxic entitlement? That makes it worth it.

I believe the kids would call this "cringe".

[(XBOX)ForcedGecko632]

7 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

My point is, the talk of boycotting and whatnot just makes it look like a more worthwhile purchase IMO. I don't much like people being excessively dramatic about this kind of thing. It reeks of entitlement. 

I may not think the pack is worth it but that's why I simply wouldn't purchase it and move on instead of coming onto the forums to make a big stink about how I feel personally offended by their business decisions. 

So even though I might not think its a good value, knowing it includes the salty tears of people's toxic entitlement? That makes it worth it.

Sound like you're comfortable spending money out of spite to hopefully keep promoting the game? (I'm just joking a little here not being truly snarky) I'd prefer the company spent their energy differently, like on definitive content, instead of cosmetics, that's all. I don't think that places me in a state of toxic entitlement. If anything telling people you'd spend the money just to evoke your own enjoyment in someone else's disappointment is toxic to some degree. 

I think we can both agree that this sales method is simply not a good tactic, hence the many divisive opinions and feelings on the boards, your own being an opinion as valuable and valid as any other. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by (XBOX)ForcedGecko632
Typo

[(PSN)MYKK678]

10 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Nobody knows more about FOMO in Warframe than a Founder. Even I can't contest to that. @ShogunGunshowabsolutely knows what they are talking about within the context of this package and Warframe's monetization as a whole.

Oh I see, well this changes everything.

I mean 95% of people in here probably never even thought of something like a daily or weekly alert/hunt/whatever as an actual widely used and accepted "FOMO tactic", and we're still missing all the complaints about the Dex Suit being FOMO too considering it's actually a far less limited time offer, but if you say "X person" needs to be correct I'd better get to it!!!

 

What was this supposed to be?

Really?

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, PublikDomain said:

I believe the kids would call this "cringe".

What is "cringe" to me is making a huge stink about something like this, then projecting that frustration in an overtly toxic manner. 

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)ForcedGecko632 said:

Sound like you're comfortable spending money out of spite to hopefully keep promoting the game? (I'm just joking a little here not being truly snarky) I'd prefer the company spent their energy differently, like on definitive content, instead of cosmetics, that's all. I don't think that places me in a state of toxic entitlement. If anything telling people you'd spend the money just to evoke your own enjoyment in someone else's disappointment is toxic to some degree. 

I think we can both agree that this sales method is simply not a good tactic, hence the many divisive opinions and feelings on the boards, your own being opinion as valuable and valid as any other. 

I'm comfortable spending the money out of spite, yes. 

[Ruddertail]

Just for the record, someone wasting their money on something that I boycotted will in no way make me feel "owned" or "triggered". It might make me roll my eyes though. Maybe that's worth $90.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Ruddertail

[Leqesai]

2 minutes ago, Ruddertail said:

Just for the record, someone wasting their money on something that I boycotted will in no way make me feel "owned" or "triggered". It might make me roll my eyes though. Maybe that's worth $90.

Oh yes, it definitely is.

[PublikDomain]

7 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

then projecting that frustration in an overtly toxic manner. 

The only thing toxic here is rhetoric like "mmmm salty tears mmmm makes it so worth it". Dismissing valid criticism as entitlement is weak. Saying how you enjoy peoples frustration is even weaker.

Edited August 27, 2023 by PublikDomain

[Leqesai]

Just now, PublikDomain said:

The only thing toxic here is rhetoric like "mmmm salty tears mmmm makes it so worth it".

Fair enough. Maybe the best course of action is to just make the purchase or skip it instead of making any kind of stink.

[Slayer-.]

I don't know why some are bothered, when DE introduced a new currency called Regal Aya a lot HUFFED AND PUFFED AND CHEST PUMPED, but Regal Aya is still here and players are buying it.

The same will happen with this pack until its time runs out, who knows, they may start doing this type of thing in the future, it's up to DE to decide.

[Ruddertail]

Just now, Slayer-. said:

I don't know why some are bothered, when DE introduced a new currency called Regal Aya a lot HUFFED AND PUFFED AND CHEST PUMPED, but Regal Aya is still here and players are buying it.

The same will happen with this pack until its time runs out, who knows, they may start doing this type of thing in the future, it's up to DE to decide.

Remember that community feedback is why Regal Aya is the way it is now. The original deal was significantly worse.

[Voltage]

17 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Oh I see, well this changes everything.

I mean 95% of people in here probably never even thought of something like a daily or weekly alert/hunt/whatever as an actual widely used and accepted "FOMO tactic", and we're still missing all the complaints about the Dex Suit being FOMO too considering it's actually a far less limited time offer, but if you say "X person" needs to be correct I'd better get to it!!!

 

What was this supposed to be?

Really?

FOMO is a 2 part psychological play. First it's a yes or no on whether this approaches a player in a predatory way to encourage participation that costs them something when they may not be inclined to bother. Second is the severity of the employment. Both Archon Shards and Dex anniversary items have the same kind of FOMO, but the severity of each is entirely different because of the approaches used on availability, duplicates, and the "catch up nature" which Dex items afford and Archon Shards do not.

Heirloom's closest relatives are: Prime Vaults pre-Sacrifice (2018) and Founders Packages (2013). These are the same type of FOMO, and their severity is actually quite similar in that in order to get the highest quality of package, you're actually buying a bunch of stuff you may not necessarily want.

Founders items are slightly tamer in this regard purely because everything offered was new. However, the nature of "gambling" on the game's success makes it a unique scenario that also plays into the minds of players. The gamble this time around is whether these will become regularly occurring packages and lead into Sunk Cost Fallacy.

Prime Vaults are similar in that you used to be forced to buy the full packages for cosmetics, which would result in wasted money for duplicates of owned items. DE listened in 2018, which I posted earlier, and they remedied this situation.

I think the issue here is you're not valuing the historical reference that holds a heavy impact over perception of these practices in Warframe. We're not playing Diablo Immortal or Red Dead Redemption on PS4 where we are already going into it expecting that bad deals are normal.

DE's normal used to be healthy towards players. This is what players are talking about. And yes, Founders are the absolutely the most qualified individuals to weigh in on this, more than me who's a bit of a "patch notes historical precedence" nut.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Voltage

[PublikDomain]

Just now, Leqesai said:

Fair enough. Maybe the best course of action is to just make the purchase or skip it instead of making any kind of stink.

Personally I'd say the best course of action for someone who doesn't care about the outcome either way would be for them to make their own personal decision to buy or skip and get out of the way of everyone else. You making a stink about people voicing their concerns does nothing but make more of a stink and drags legitimate concerns and feedback into a burning megathread argument. Or continue, that's fine too I guess. If you want to keep posting and bumping the thread and making the bonfire even bigger then it'll only help with visibility.

[Claytronus02]

58 minutes ago, Anmorata_Armitage said:

I really was happy to see a new Mag skin but it seems they are reserved for the wealthy alone.   For 90 dollars you could buy several triple a games on Steam.  Or a whole cartful of indie games.   And if this insanely high premium is going to be tied to these skins than why are they bundled?  Just let us purchase the one we want.   Its really disappointing but at 90 dollars for a skin we're getting into some sketchy territory.  And before any apologists get in here and say its only a cosmetic.   Need I remind you, fashion game is end game.   Fashion, style, creativity and art is a big part of the Warframe experience.   It's part of the game play loop just as much as big number go up.   Especially when your favorite frame (Mag) gets a sweet skin that is out of your reach.

It's really deflating to be honest.   DE could at very least divide the bundle into parts so you can just pick things alacart.  Making it somewhat more affordable for everyone.

My one issue with this is that these skins, and brand new attachment types, are time limited. These kinds of things should not be limited like that, in my opinion. Sigils and emotes are one thing, but skins and attachments we've never even had before? Those should be available at all times as an addition to the game, especially when realistically? These sticking around is just better value for DE and players alike. Imagine down the line a new player chooses mag as their starter, then they see this bundle when they go to get some plat for slots and reactors/catalysts. Same for when new players get Frost for the first time, or if/when Frost gets a rework. 
 

Or even just letting someone save up for longer if they have something else they have/want to get (especially as all these new games are coming out), and won't be able to spare the cash by the end of the year. I just don't think these should go away after the year is done, they can even keep the price as-is and just let everyone save up for it at their own pace. I will probably end up getting it anyways by October, but that means I will probably have to skip out on giving Baldur's gate a whirl. Why? Baldur's Gate is gonna be on Steam long after 2023, this bundle won't. And in my view? I should not have to drop getting a new game just because I don't want to miss out on the wonder of a brand new attachment category. Just remove the time limit, let people always have the option to pick these up when they are in a comfortable place to do it. Why throw away the work that went into making them just because not everyone can drop that kind of money for an extended period of time? 
 

And this isn't even like the time-limited exclusive weapon skins, because those are just that, weapon skins. Not unique skins for warframes and a brand new attachment type. But I doubt they're going to change the time limit, at most they might add more plat/regal aya to make the prices easier to swallow. Just gonna be harder to convince any of my friends to try out the game with me, only for them to see the halo and skin, ask how to get them, then hear how disappointed they are when they find out how it is long gone and never coming back. That's gonna choke the fun right out of them as they see something they can't get, without the understanding that the Founders Pack at least had. 

[Slayer-.]

9 minutes ago, Ruddertail said:

Remember that community feedback is why Regal Aya is the way it is now. The original deal was significantly worse.

Forgot about that, oh well unless it's a scarlet Spear type thing then DE will stick with it while players are buying it.  

[PublikDomain]

6 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

I don't know why some are bothered, when DE introduced a new currency called Regal Aya a lot HUFFED AND PUFFED AND CHEST PUMPED, but Regal Aya is still here and players are buying it.

The same will happen with this pack until its time runs out, who knows, they may start doing this type of thing in the future, it's up to DE to decide.

A lot of people did huff and puff and chest pump... And those concerns were largely addressed. People were bothered, now they aren't because the thing bothering them was fixed.

And hopefully the same will happen with this pack, and DE will do what they did with Prime Accessories and Prime Resurgence plat and once again "adjust [their] stance for the benefit of the community at large" to ensure we "will get more value on top of the much-desired flexibility".

[FiveN9ne]

I saw the price and chuckled. Even Prime Access is bloated imo especially when compared to the price of tennogen... 7 euro skin? No unnecessary bloat in the form of currency i can't use for anything i want or straight up don't need? Yes please. Sigil? Glyph? We are supposed to pay for these things? Seriously? 

[wodanclay]

4 hours ago, Vortex said:

I mean, a lot of founders literally supported this for the first time and was happy for the past 10 years for it, a lot just sitted in relays or any mission with your excalibur prime while everyone else was crying because of the lost oportunity, but you all was happy with your ego in the skies.

But magically the same guys now are crying because someone else can be more exclusive than them if they don't keep "supporting like a hero" as they always said.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Founder packages were actually a good deal. You can even look it up in the wiki if you want. You got a ton of platinum, especially if you bought the Master or Grand Master package. You also got access to the design council, and your name added into the game. They even sent t-shirts and bandanas to their founders. The platinum alone was easily over the USD value. There is a huge difference between the Founder's packages and the current 10 year anni package. Whether you want to acknowledge or not is up to you.

[Birdframe_Prime]

37 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

I'm not entirely sure where the confusion could be coming from, unless you replied to the wrong person yourself with that post.

Because you completely didn't address anything but one single phrase I actually said in that post and proceeded to take that one phrase out of context.

[Inquizitor]

I have regrets becoming a founder. Seeing what DE has become is truly...disappointing.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Ruddertail said:

Remember that community feedback is why Regal Aya is the way it is now. The original deal was significantly worse.

Was it much worse? Or did it just not include the plat? That ironically no one wants now

Edited August 27, 2023 by Hypernaut1

[(PSN)Unstar]

I'm guessing this isn't so novel as to change anyone's mind, but I'll just weigh in and say that this seems in-line with Prime Access, which I'm fine with.  Warframe is a free game, one that many players play without spending a single cent.  I want DE to keep making this game, and that means I want them to monetize the game.  In that context, I don't see them selling a cosmetic bundle in exchange for currency to be in any way negative.

If the price is something folks are unwilling to pay, or if they would prefer to see the bundle structured differently, that's reasonable feedback that folks should be giving.

But as much as I try to, it's hard for me to understand why people would get genuinely hostile about this, because the worst case scenario is that it's an optional cosmetic in the game that you don't have because you didn't pay for it.  It's a shiny that nobody needs and nobody should feel entitled to.

[JHarlequin]

 I am disappointed that they are bundled so sloppily.  It is a bad choice to always throw such thick bundles together especially since we can't play more than one frame at a time.

 I am also betting they don't have access to the voidshell customizations and might never get them or at least won't get them for quite a long time.  Another bit of customization that has us buying another skin for frames that cuts out other nice features.

 The good things I am seeing so far are that they do look good, and that they will be available until the end of the year, so may be they will make some different packages later so that we can get only what we want instead of buying one or two good things, and six useless lumps.

 Best feedback I can give is that they should have been set up with a build your own package set up.  Select which things you want and your price gets totaled.  These prebuilt packages are just throwing a lot of money away.