It's time to break the 3 Weapons limitation

[crazywolfpusher]

The game has so many fun and interesting weapons and each update adds a few more and there is not enough time to play them all, or at least the ones we like.

I think it's time change the way loadouts work and replace it with a weapon wheel so we can carry more than 3.

 

We already use a wheel for some important stuff, shouldn't be too complicated, right?

[-Krism-]

7 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

I think it's time change the way loadouts work and replace it with a weapon wheel so we can carry more than 3.

& I think you're wrong

[Numerounius]

Archgun deploy says hello. Exalted weapons say hello. There is already more than 3 options, you just have to think creatively. This is what I use to get a build that can perform in multiple archetypes.

I already have other opinions on the loadout system but this isn't one of them.

Edited October 15, 2023 by XHADgaming

[kamisama85]

• Archgun
• Incarnon Modes
• Warframe Abilities
• Specters/Crew Specter
• Companion (And soon the rework)
• Orbiter Subfunction (KAHL Team-6, Airstrike, Sleep Mode, etc)

Why do you need more weapons at this point?
There is already a plethora of things you have with you to deal with every situation of enemy. If you need more than what you have now, then I think you need to reevaluate how you play this or any game with all the power you have already been given.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Tbh I wouldn't personally say no to this, even if such an idea would likely have some hefty limitations in place. We are already quite OP as it stands, and imo as it should be.

At the end of the day I find it very unlikely, regardless of my personal oppinion on this matter.

[crazywolfpusher]

Seriously people believe we might break the game with more than 3 weapons? as it is, and depending on the Warframe, you don't even need weapons. This game difficulty is a joke, non-existent. If I, or anyone, wanna be able to swap weapons from a larger pool without having to exit the mission is just for the fun of it. 

 

What are you guys scared of? 😂

Edited October 15, 2023 by crazywolfpusher

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, crazywolfpusher said:

What are you guys scare of? 😂

On top of the usual resistance to change, there are a few legitimate concerns:

A paradoxical result of more homogeny. If you have access to EVERYTHING, your variety will actually go down. Suddenly you have access to the meta breakers (Kuva Bramma and Kuva Nukor) at all times, PLUS your favorites.

Warframe is a game about planning ahead, the right build for the right job. I have to switch out against different targets. If I bring magnetic weapons to Grineer Steel Path, I'm going to struggle pretty much no matter what. With access to more weapons, suddenly I ALWAYS have access to the radiation+viral anti-Grineer weapons, and the magnetic Corpus weapons, and the gas Infested weapons. I no longer need to swap or experiment ever, one build wins the game

[(NSW)Greybones]

I see no reason. If I wanted to use a different weapon, I’d switch in the Orbiter, and then in-mission I only have to consider which among my three weapons that are built for different scenarios or roles I’ll use for the situation at hand, and I’m making do with what I’ve got which will have various levels of success.

It’s kind of like why I wouldn’t want to be able to swap loadouts mid-mission; I like being locked into what I bring and using that (and then I have backup in the form of Operator or Heavy Weapons, but for the most part I’m using the loadout I designed for the fight I’m looking for) instead of being given the equivalent of solving the mission outside of the mission

[crazywolfpusher]

 

7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Warframe is a game about planning ahead, the right build for the right job.

This is the exact reason why most people find Bane mods a pain in the a**

And while might be true, I think it applies a lot more for Warframes rather than weapons. So you still get to plan-whatever ahead to crack relics for 1 hour, if you even need to plan ahead for that.

7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I no longer need to swap or experiment ever, one build wins the game

But that make no sense, being able to carry more weapons only means you get to experiment more.

and it's quite funny that you mention one build wins the game when already every single melee is build pretty much the exact same.

Edited October 15, 2023 by crazywolfpusher

[(PSN)robotwars7]

no thanks: I'm at a point where I frequently only carry one gun and a melee just in case I run out of ammo or something starts breathing on me. it isn't that hard to just tweak your loadout beforehand to suit the mission, and if you need an "oh crap, now I need insane DPS" gun, your Archgun - properly modded - can usually fill in. 

ultimatley I don't think you'd get the mileage out of this change that you might expect, plus wheels are always clunkier than pressing one button, any way you slice it.

[crazywolfpusher]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I see no reason. If I wanted to use a different weapon, I’d switch in the Orbiter, and then in-mission I only have to consider which among my three weapons that are built for different scenarios or roles I’ll use for the situation at hand, and I’m making do with what I’ve got which will have various levels of success.

It’s kind of like why I wouldn’t want to be able to swap loadouts mid-mission; I like being locked into what I bring and using that (and then I have backup in the form of Operator or Heavy Weapons, but for the most part I’m using the loadout I designed for the fight I’m looking for) instead of being given the equivalent of solving the mission outside of the mission

 

1 minute ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

no thanks: I'm at a point where I frequently only carry one gun and a melee just in case I run out of ammo or something starts breathing on me. it isn't that hard to just tweak your loadout beforehand to suit the mission, and if you need an "oh crap, now I need insane DPS" gun, your Archgun - properly modded - can usually fill in. 

ultimatley I don't think you'd get the mileage out of this change that you might expect, plus wheels are always clunkier than pressing one button, any way you slice it.

 

I don't get you guys. You can clear 95% Steel Path Star Chart with an MK1 Bo. We already are gods in the game, there is no practical necessity for any of this, you don't even need to plan your loadouts. One slash viral build and you are good.

This is just for fun, how is having more choices a bad a thing?

[(PSN)robotwars7]

5 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

You can clear 95% Steel Path Star Chart with an MK1 Bo.

exactly, so why do we need to carry 8 weapons when one does the job? the only time something like this would be useful is if we had to cycle between a bunch of different damage types, like in Profit Taker's fight. otherwise it's "just for fun", but fun is subjective. and again, wheels require more steps to pick the weapon you want, as opposed to *press* and that's it. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

3 weapons is enough, the most that would be nice to get is being able to bring a rifle with a shotgun but no secondary/ pistol and thrown weapons with no primary. Just mixing primary and secondary ya know?

[Tiltskillet]

12 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

This is just for fun, how is having more choices a bad a thing?

For me this is a case of a limitation encouraging creating more interesting choices than loosening up the limitation would.

[TARINunit9]

32 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

But that make no sense, being able to carry more weapons only means you get to experiment more

It's certainly a paradox. But human psychology usually is contradictory like that. More options at once = less experimentation.

I've been studying Half Life 2 playthroughs, looking at how Valve's developers used to nail their game design (and their rare missteps). And one thing I have noticed is players getting locked into a "only two or three weapons" mentality. Two pistols, SMG, rifle, shotgun, crossbow, grenades, rocket launcher, and the famous Gravity Gun -- all have intended uses and niches, they're good at different things and have limits. But new players often default to just rifle + shotgun, they try to slow every problem with just those two even when they're suboptimal. MORE options, paradoxically, leads to LESS experimentation

Doom 4 had the same problem, actually. With eight weapons, almost everyone used the Super Shotgun and gauss cannon exclusively. Doom Eternal was only able to solve this by both MASSIVELY nerfing the player's ammo stash, and making some enemies huge pains in the butt unless you used a specific weapon to stun them -- and even then, new players have a habit of just Super Shotgun for most things

I see no reason a big Warframe weapon wheel wouldn't lead to the same problem

Edited October 15, 2023 by TARINunit9

[crazywolfpusher]

5 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

For me this is a case of a limitation encouraging creating more interesting choices than loosening up the limitation would.

What is being encourage exactly?

We can already clear 95% of the game with a single Weapon. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by crazywolfpusher

[(NSW)Greybones]

22 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

 

 

I don't get you guys. You can clear 95% Steel Path Star Chart with an MK1 Bo. We already are gods in the game, there is no practical necessity for any of this, you don't even need to plan your loadouts. One slash viral build and you are good.

This is just for fun, how is having more choices a bad a thing?

We’re not forced to play like you though, which means greater variety in options and playstyles in the first place; locking in is how the mission separates itself from the Orbiter, otherwise why wouldn’t I just make the overbuilt loadout in the first place? (I could do it within the 3 options even, where one piece of kit is way overtuned compared to what the mission asks for and what the other pieces do, and basically rely on that one piece of gear with no regard for any sort of intertwining of loadout or consideration for what or where I’m fighting)

Edited October 15, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

Maybe if missions contained more internal variety and we didn't get sent back home between every mission, but as it stands, there's no point.  The reason something like GTA has a weapon wheel and lets you carry around 20 different guns is because you may go hours between visits to a location where you can rearrange your loadout, and in that time you could very well encounter situations where you actually need all those different weapons because having only 3 would leave massive holes in your combat capabilities.  That's not the case in Warframe.  Unless you go out of your way to bring a trash selection for a given mission, you're fine.  You only need those 3 weapons, and then when you're done you go back to your orbiter to change up for the next mission if needed.

[crazywolfpusher]

16 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

We’re not forced to play like you though, which means greater variety in options and playstyles in the first place

Being able to carry more weapons only allow more diversity.  How does my proposal limit you from playing the game the way you want?

 

8 minutes ago, (PSN)Lollybomb said:

Maybe if missions contained more internal variety and we didn't get sent back home between every mission, but as it stands, there's no point.  The reason something like GTA has a weapon wheel and lets you carry around 20 different guns is because you may go hours

You know we have endless missions right?

And maybe if our loadouts evolve, missions could evolve as well.

Edited October 15, 2023 by crazywolfpusher

[Tiltskillet]

12 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

What is being encourage exactly?

We can already clear 95% of the game with a single Weapon. 

I meant to remove the word "encouraging" in my answer. Like so:

"For me this is a case of a limitation creating more interesting choices than loosening up the limitation would."

I don't understand what your second sentence has to do with anything I said though. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

Being able to carry more weapons only allow more diversity. How is my proposal limiting you to play the game in anyway?

You’re certainly making it harder to accept that a weapon built for one role would struggle in another but I’m still forced to use it because of reasons and thus the fight plays out differently.

We’ve already got the diversity, it’s in the Orbiter, and then the mission strips away all that fluff choice and is where we take the results of our consideration of build and loadout to play according to how they match with the mission and what playstyle we’re looking for.

Not to mention the game is designed for three weapons, and has fundamental systems designed around it like enemy damage type weakness/resistances; just because you opt to blow any semblance of balance away doesn’t mean it’s not there, and part of the decision behind making a loadout hinges on that in-mission balance (or desire to avoid the in-mission balance, in your case)

[(NSW)Greybones]

Out of curiosity, @crazywolfpusher, are you someone who does endurance runs for huge amounts of time?

[BroDutt]

1 hour ago, crazywolfpusher said:

We already use a wheel for some important stuff, shouldn't be too complicated, right?

You want us to clutter the wheel selection? On PC those shortcut can be mitigated. So you can had shortcut button for 4 abilities, operator mode, archwing, archgun, Necramech, Summon, Healing/Energy pizza, but on console? Stop thinking from your own perspective. We have only 3 loadout and melee rework so we can easily swap them. The Archgun work like those "special" type of weapon since you had ammo restriction (this need to change since Archgun is not that powerful anymore).

This is a game that developed for 10 years. Why don't you sugesst other game had more flexibility like Warframe?

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 hour ago, crazywolfpusher said:

The game has so many fun and interesting weapons and each update adds a few more and there is not enough time to play them all, or at least the ones we like.

I think it's time change the way loadouts work and replace it with a weapon wheel so we can carry more than 3.

 

We already use a wheel for some important stuff, shouldn't be too complicated, right?

Problem: 

That'll allow people to carry Kuva Zarr + Shedu/Sporelacer + Phenmor 

[(NSW)Greybones]

Huh. I’m kind of surprised at initial pushback on this idea. Normally limits are something Warframe players hate and try their best to avoid, and I figured that an unbound weapon selection would be right in line with that