It's time to break the 3 Weapons limitation

[PollexMessier]

I'm not opposed to the idea but I think the game's fine where it is.

There's so much complexity in what we already have I feel like a weapon wheel would just be too much.

Alternate firing modes are basically different weapons in and of themselves. So within the confines of what we're given we have:

2 primary firing modes (3 for some weapons but those are generally terrible so I'll ignore the fact that they exist)
2 secondary firing modes
2 amp firing modes
1 mele (An additional mele could be interesting. Why I heavily want meles that can switch between two different forms like the switchaxe or chargeblade from Monster hunter)
2 arch weapon firing modes (+2 more in any mission where necramechs are allowed)
And an exalted weapon if you run a frame with one. (+ another one for nechramechs again)

for a potential maximum of 9-13 different "weapons". That's a lot to keep track of all at once already, and then there are abilities.

Now imagine filling out a wheel with weapons that all have multiple firing modes attached to them. That's way too much information to juggle.

However it's not like using it would be mandatory. It could be a cool option to have for those that want it. I think it's extremely massive overkill tho.

[Slayer-.]

More weapons would greatly aid the spammers in WF, I have a friend who uses his bramma everywhere because it owns, he found out how useless it is in SP Circuit. lol

Weapon wheels are good in other games like Ghost Recon and those types because of the need, I don't see a need in Warframe.

[AlexMercer]

What we have is good enough the only thing i would really like is to be able to have the option to equip 3 melee weapons instead of primaries and secondaries in those slots 

[Tsukinoki]

My question to the idea is this:
What "problem"/issue is your idea "fixing"?

As in what do you want to actually accomplish with this idea?  How does it make things better?  What are you running into in missions that makes you go "I wish I had 13 other weapons with me....."?

What do you think it'll allow DE to do that they are unable to do currently?

 

Missions are generally short enough that it can't really be a variety issue, after all in 2-5 minutes you'll be able to change your loadout to something completely different.  SO the current system isn't really preventing you from having variety....
It can't be a difficulty issue as you've stated things are braindead easy in general in warframe to start with.

 

Further how would this work mechanically?
Experience split wise, ammo split wise, etc?
What about issues this would cause with matchmaking?  After all the more guns you bring the more information to have to send to everyone in the squad with all of your skins and colors and mods and everything else....I would hate to see how long it would take to load things if someone joined a mission with literally every single gun in the game equipped to their wheel at the same time.  That could cause some major lag issues.
Host desyncs are bad enough already, but could you imagine losing access to the majority of your gear because of a loading hitch?

 

This idea has quite a few problems....but I honestly can't see a single positive to this.

[Aruquae]

I would like a fourth slot where I can put an AOE weapon… much like Destiny 2. A Kuva Obama in an AOE slot with its limited ammo, only used for like one shot. 

[Slayer-.]

53 minutes ago, Malikili said:

I would like a fourth slot where I can put an AOE weapon… much like Destiny 2. A Kuva Obama in an AOE slot with its limited ammo, only used for like one shot. 

Sure ya would use it for one shot. 

 

[Aruquae]

57 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

Sure ya would use it for one shot. 

 

I would probably use my Kuva Ogris as my “Oh poo” button. Switch to it to nuke then when the fight kinda slows down, go back to Phenmor. I wouldn’t want to nuke ALL the time, because I like aiming, but the occasional big BOOM is satisfying.

[crazywolfpusher]

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

My question to the idea is this:
What "problem"/issue is your idea "fixing"?

As in what do you want to actually accomplish with this idea?  How does it make things better?  What are you running into in missions that makes you go "I wish I had 13 other weapons with me....."?

What do you think it'll allow DE to do that they are unable to do currently?

 

Missions are generally short enough that it can't really be a variety issue, after all in 2-5 minutes you'll be able to change your loadout to something completely different.  SO the current system isn't really preventing you from having variety....
It can't be a difficulty issue as you've stated things are braindead easy in general in warframe to start with.

 

Further how would this work mechanically?
Experience split wise, ammo split wise, etc?
What about issues this would cause with matchmaking?  After all the more guns you bring the more information to have to send to everyone in the squad with all of your skins and colors and mods and everything else....I would hate to see how long it would take to load things if someone joined a mission with literally every single gun in the game equipped to their wheel at the same time.  That could cause some major lag issues.
Host desyncs are bad enough already, but could you imagine losing access to the majority of your gear because of a loading hitch?

 

This idea has quite a few problems....but I honestly can't see a single positive to this.

So if a proposal is not fixing any problem issue, is not worth it? 

Having  hundreds of weapons while 90% of them are MR Fodder not because they are simply bad, but because why bother with a Tenora Prime when I can spam a Laetron Incarnon. - Is this not a problem?

Never played a Survival for more than 5 minutes? I know people don't play some Warframes because they get boring and repetitive which is kinda funny considering the nature of the game.

 

Having access to a wider arsenal inside missions has only positives.

You get to enjoy more of your weapons without leaving a mission every 5 minutes.

Combat can end up slightly less repetitive.

Some of the recent missions have multiple types of enemies, having a weapon that can deal with specific factions/situations for those who enjoy min maxing. More people would get to enjoy banes without having to change mods constantly. 

More choices are always good thing. 

 

But yeah, this might be catastrophic, there are so many things to consider...  especially now that everyone gonna run pets with 3 clones! 3!! imagine the zoo, the lag, the desync issues. And the particles, don't forget the particles! 

 

 

[Slayer-.]

15 minutes ago, Malikili said:

I would probably use my Kuva Ogris as my “Oh poo” button. Switch to it to nuke then when the fight kinda slows down, go back to Phenmor. I wouldn’t want to nuke ALL the time, because I like aiming, but the occasional big BOOM is satisfying.

Yep, I like aiming as well, like you when I'm solo I like to just Nukem now and then, doing it all the time gets boring real fast. 

[Aruquae]

1 minute ago, Slayer-. said:

Yep, I like aiming as well, like you when I'm solo I like to just Nukem now and then, doing it all the time gets boring real fast. 

Right? Nuking is fun in moderation, but doing it all the time just takes the fun out of nuking.…. Dang it went off topic again

[Tsukinoki]

51 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

So if a proposal is not fixing any problem issue, is not worth it? 

I didn't say that.
I'm just bringing up the point that if an idea doesn't serve any purpose what-so-ever, then what is the point of considering it?

You stated an idea....without stating why you want it, how it would make something better.  Just that you want something "because".

That's hardly convincing as to why it would be a good idea to sped dev time implementing this.

51 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

Having  hundreds of weapons while 90% of them are MR Fodder not because they are simply bad, but because why bother with a Tenora Prime when I can spam a Laetron Incarnon. - Is this not a problem?

To some people it is.
To other people it isn't.
Depends on your viewpoint.

And do you seriously think that just because they can equip both the Tenora Prime and the Laetron Icarnon that they are actually going to do that?

Because again "Why bother"?
Why clutter up the gear-wheel and have to seek through the weapons to go "I really need my Laetron Incarnon...where is it..." and fumble around?

 

Further it depends on why you use weapons, if you have rivens, abilities, etc.
I mean a tenora prime can handle the game pretty well, even into SP survivals if properly kitted out....so why bother with the Laetron Incarnon?

51 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

Never played a Survival for more than 5 minutes?

I was bringing up average mission length, not counting for the people who go 20+ minutes in a single mission.
I regularly go for longer than that and don't really have a problem with the variety I bring into the mission and can handle using one weapon for a long time without having to constantly change over and over and over and over again.

51 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

Having access to a wider arsenal inside missions has only positives.

You get to enjoy more of your weapons without leaving a mission every 5 minutes.

So your idea is aimed at the people who can't focus and must switch gear every 2 or 3 seconds?

And again I point back to your "why bother" sentiment.
Sure I could bring a tenora prime and a laetron incarnon at the same time....but then why would I ever use the tenora prime when I have the laetron incarnon right there in my gear wheel.

It wouldn't serve a purpose to have both as you can only use one at a time....and are you really going to choose to mix it up constantly for this idea to really hold any merit?

If you have the issue of "Why would I bring a tenora prime into a mission when I could be bringing the laetron incranon instead?" then wouldn't you have the same exact issue of "Why would I equip the tenora prime when I have the laetron incarnon right next to it in the gear wheel?"

51 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

Combat can end up slightly less repetitive.

How so?
Most weapons don't behave super differently than each other...and again it's not like you're stuck using one weapon for hours upon hours upon hours upon hours upon hours (unless that's your choice).

And again "why bother" switching to the weapons when I have constant access to the incarnon weapons?

51 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

More people would get to enjoy banes without having to change mods constantly. 

Ahh yes, because having to fumble through a wheel and go "Did I put the mod loadout that is good against grinneer or infested on this gun when I added it to the wheel?" is so much better than just making sure you put on the right mods as you were equipping it......surely keeping 13 guns modding straight in your head is easier than three.

51 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

More choices are always good thing. 

Not always.
Limitations can breed creativity and more interest than completely open and free choices at all times.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Tsukinoki

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

I already dislike that Borderlands uses 4 weapons and radial wheels are a bit of a pain on controller - Doom Eternal. Especially in a fast paced live game without any kind of “time slowing”. Cyberpunk has the same issue with arms mods. You either end up having to cycle endlessly or use a radial wheel which sucks

 

3 Weapon systems are the standard loadout for most shooters and it works well.

Edited October 16, 2023 by (PSN)FirmBizkit

[crazywolfpusher]

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

And do you seriously think that just because they can equip both the Tenora Prime and the Laetron Icarnon that they are actually going to do that?

Because again "Why bother"?
Why clutter up the gear-wheel and have to seek through the weapons to go "I really need my Laetron Incarnon...where is it..." and fumble around

How is a 6 gear-wheel any worse than the inventory-wheel we currently have? it can't be so terrible as you make it sound.

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

Further it depends on why you use weapons, if you have rivens, abilities, etc.
I mean a tenora prime can handle the game pretty well, even into SP survivals if properly kitted out....so why bother with the Laetron Incarnon?

Rivens failed at addressing the issue of MR fodder. Actually plenty of people don't like Rivens. 

Also:

1 hour ago, Malikili said:

Right? Nuking is fun in moderation, but doing it all the time just takes the fun out of nuking.…. Dang it went off topic again

------------------------------------------------------

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

So your idea is aimed at the people who can't focus and must switch gear every 2 or 3 seconds?

No? everyone can find joy in swapping weapons inside missions. If you don't like doing so, you don't have to.

 

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

Limitations can breed creativity and more interest than completely open and free choices at all times.

That's mostly true for Warframes. Weapons builds are carbon copy, especially melees. 

1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said:

Because again "Why bother"?

Why we bother changing pets, shield gating? people have cleared all the content without problems until now. So why change any of it? because there were no choices to make. You either use Shield Gating, or you dont. You use pets and resurrect them, or you simply bring a Panzer Vulpaphyla.

 

So far the only reason I see you people dislike a gear wheel change is because it might cause troubles to DE implementing it. I don't get it, do you work at DE? 

Edited October 16, 2023 by crazywolfpusher

[Aruquae]

4 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

Rivens failed at addressing the issue of MR fodder. Actually plenty of people don't like Rivens. 

And before someone will say everyone uses rivens (because I know someone would say that) I don’t. In fact I despise them. Why? Two reasons

1. To me they don’t count as actual mods simply because of how randomized they are. I prefer using mods that any gun can use. 
2. THE PURPLE. I’m serious the fact that it’s purple gets away with my wonderful color coding and sorting out mods :’)

7 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

No? everyone can find joy in swapping weapons inside missions. If you don't like doing so, you don't have to.

I admit, before they changed the holsters speed I only used one weapon. After the change though it feels quite fluid. Quick drawing to keep up with the fast gameplay.
 

 

[Tsukinoki]

54 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

How is a 6 gear-wheel any worse than the inventory-wheel we currently have?

How is it any better?

How does it address anything you brought up?

You say it'll increase variety and make people bring along "MR fodder gear" but How?
If someone isn't doing that already it's definitely not because of having 3  weapon slots vs 6 or whatever number you want to toss out.

 

You want more weapon slots so you can bring more guns into missions....why?

And "just because...." isn't really a good answer as to why this should be done.

You should have some actual reasoning behind wanting something other than "just because".

 

You want to make weapon swapping clunkier and more annoying (especially for controllers) and for what benefit?
What is the upside of bringing 6 weapons or 8 or however many into a single mission?

 

The novelty of "I have X guns in this mission"?

 

Is it really worth all of the extra clunkiness and annoyance of going "Ok, bring up my item wheel, tab over to my weapon wheel, cycle through the weapon wheel to find the secondary weapon, equip that....." and having to repeat that every time you want to change weapons?
Especially on console that is really going to drag having to do that every single time you need to change weapons....

54 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

Rivens failed at addressing the issue of MR fodder

Please point out where I claimed that it did?  I mean seriously, where did I make this claim that rivens address the issue of MR fodder?

You brought up "Why use tenora prime vs laetron incarnon" and I brought up a few reasons as to why some people would make one choice over another.
Simple as that.

And your idea does nothing to "address the issue of MR fodder".  Or address the reason of why people would put any given weapon into their wheel compared to the meta choices.

Your idea does nothing to address any of that stuff....it's just more weapon slots (and massively worse weapon swapping) "just because"

54 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

Weapons builds are carbon copy, especially melees. 

And again: How does your idea address this in any way?
Because wouldn't the weapon wheel just be full of "carbon copy" weapons then?  At that point what's the point of having the weapon wheel if they are all the same and there isn't really a choice to be had?

Edited October 16, 2023 by Tsukinoki

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

It seems it is indeed....not time.

[Psianide73]

I say no. Reason - Just because. 👍

[bad4youLT]

- Primary weapon

- Secondary weapon

- Melee weapon

- Archgun Launcher

- Sentinel weapon

- Exalted weapon

We are not limited to only 3 weapons per missions

[Dunkelheit]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb crazywolfpusher:

What are you guys scared of? 😂

Of people who have no clue about the game or how it works and want to change it for the worse, but think they make it better.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

32 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

- Primary weapon

- Secondary weapon

- Melee weapon

- Archgun Launcher

- Sentinel weapon

- Exalted weapon

We are not limited to only 3 weapons per missions

Don't forget Operator Amp.

[trst]

Just because the game is already stuck in a pit of bad design doesn't mean we should ask DE to continue digging deeper.

As is give us a reason to use the up to nine weapons we already have in a single loadout. Then we can discuss potentially allowing for more.

[Stafelund]

I would be fine with 7-8 weapon slots because I'm too familiar with boomer shooters. 1 melee, 1 for pistol, 1 for shotgun and super shotguns, 1 for explosive, 1 for rapid fire projectile weapon, and the last one would be the room clearer. Typical boomer shooter weapon formula.

[Packetdancer]

9 hours ago, taiiat said:

i can appreciate the sentiment, but what i'd want is to be able to bring two Primaries or two Secondaries, rather than having to pick one of each.

I could get behind half of this; I think letting you take a secondary in place of a primary -- so you could 'downgrade' your primary to a secondary -- would be neat. I am less fond of the idea of taking two primaries, I admit.

[PR1D3]

3 hours ago, crazywolfpusher said:

How is a 6 gear-wheel any worse than the inventory-wheel we currently have? it can't be so terrible as you make it sound.

Rivens failed at addressing the issue of MR fodder. Actually plenty of people don't like Rivens. 

Also:

------------------------------------------------------

No? everyone can find joy in swapping weapons inside missions. If you don't like doing so, you don't have to.

 

That's mostly true for Warframes. Weapons builds are carbon copy, especially melees. 

Why we bother changing pets, shield gating? people have cleared all the content without problems until now. So why change any of it? because there were no choices to make. You either use Shield Gating, or you dont. You use pets and resurrect them, or you simply bring a Panzer Vulpaphyla.

 

So far the only reason I see you people dislike a gear wheel change is because it might cause troubles to DE implementing it. I don't get it, do you work at DE? 

Dude just accept that you came up with a bad idea that would just destroy what little sanity is left in this game. Your 'arguments' are not convincing. Tsukinoki already pointed out the the immediate problems that your 'idea; would cause. The only thing fueling this is just your own whims and fancies, actual implementation and consequences be damned. We don't need to work at DE to think logically for a second. Pure Appeal to Authority Fallacy. 

[Packetdancer]

5 hours ago, crazywolfpusher said:

So if a proposal is not fixing any problem issue, is not worth it?

Of course not... in abstract.

In this particular case, speaking of Warframe? A game that's already got problems with both power creep and with making the new-shiny-thing while leaving previous content to gather dust (and technical debt) as content islands?

I'd say that yes, in this specific case, if we as a playerbase are suggesting they add random stuff outside of the game's existing content roadmap which could be a significant amount of work to implement... yeah, it probably should address one of those scenarios.

And make no mistake, a gear wheel that lets you pull from your entire arsenal -- thus requiring syncing that arsenal to host in multiplayer -- and which would require rethinking how affinity is granted for ranking equipped weapons up... that would probably not be "hey, an intern can do this in an afternoon" type work. Even if you said "Well, okay, we'll just limit it to six extra weapons" or some other arbitrary limit.

(Plus, I would argue that this idea potentially makes the power creep problem way worse rather than addressing it in any useful way.)

Edited October 16, 2023 by Packetdancer