The addition of several Archon Shards has to come with an overhaul to the massive gating to earning them

[(NSW)Greybones]

3 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

if some of those stats go live, those things will be 110% meta mandatory.

And with the amount of bile that it costs to move even a handful of shards, they pretty much are for many players

What are you talking about “Mandatory”? You’ve invented your own goal that sounds awful to keep on top of, I don’t need shards to play the game or make builds, and even if they can be neat ways to augment my builds they’re as “mandatory” as… anything else. Which is to say not mandatory

edit: Oh, Meta Mandatory. Missed the ‘Meta’ part.

Eh, if you’re a Meta chaser, you’re in for a rough time anyways, so this seems par for the course

Edited November 24, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[Cuboon]

😆this is really a "this is where I'd put my Tau forged amethyst archon shard, If I had one!" scenario. But seriously, there's no way DE won't hear of this- they'll find it best to work supplying issues out before the update ever arrives.😆

Edited November 24, 2023 by Cuboon

[Kaiga]

13 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

What are you talking about “Mandatory”? You’ve invented your own goal that sounds awful to keep on top of, I don’t need shards to play the game or make builds, and even if they can be neat ways to augment my builds they’re as “mandatory” as… anything else. Which is to say not mandatory

"You don't need X to do Y in this game" is a dim argument.

You don't need anything to play this game. You can go in with a braton and a skana vs 400+ enemies and have an terrible time, if your personal sense of fun is okay with that, but that doesn't mean high level or efficient gameplay doesn't require certain levels of effectiveness from your build.

Yes. Yes you do need things that have strong interactions with existing content to play at a high level or efficiently. There are already setups that provide this. These new shards look to deliver that as well, so odds are, they'll be useful in said builds.

It's not that hard to understand.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Kaiga

[TeaHands]

If there's no new way to get these shards then sure, add more avenues.

If there is a new way to get more shards, it probably won't be a big deal.

I like Kahl now with the most recent update so 2 per week has already been a nice stream of extra power, and adding more ways will definitely lead to even more power creep for silly builds.

Edited November 24, 2023 by TeaHands

[Aruquae]

So let me get this straight... they added the fusion idea everyone was talking about... but completely forgot the part where you can fuse to tauforged?

[(NSW)Greybones]

4 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

"You don't need X to do Y in this game" is a stupid argument.

You don't need anything to play this game. You can go in with a braton and a skana vs 400+ enemies and have an terrible time, if your personal sense of fun is okay with that, but that doesn't mean high level or efficient gameplay doesn't require certain levels of effectiveness from your build.

Yes. Yes you do need things that have strong interactions with existing content to play at a high level or efficiently. There are already setups that provide this. These new shards look to deliver that as well, so odds are, they'll be useful in said builds.

It's not that hard to understand.

Seems what I’m understanding is someone who digs their own hole to jump into.

You know that thing that DE have struggled with, player retention because players make their Meta builds, find out there was never any reason to do so aside from personal goal, then leave the game only to return when a new update drops?

I’m thinking the timegate and Archon Shard business is aimed at keeping those players who chase redundant amounts of power like it’s the only thing worth doing. Personally I would like easier access to Shards as well, but that supply trickle of things that push players that bit higher into the realm of unnecessary overkill isn’t aimed at me, so I just jump in whenever I want instead of acting like I need it

[Kaiga]

6 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Seems what I’m understanding is someone who digs their own hole to jump into.

You know that thing that DE have struggled with, player retention because players make their Meta builds, find out there was never any reason to do so aside from personal goal, then leave the game only to return when a new update drops?

I’m thinking the timegate and Archon Shard business is aimed at keeping those players who chase redundant amounts of power like it’s the only thing worth doing. Personally I would like easier access to Shards as well, but that supply trickle of things that push players that bit higher into the realm of unnecessary overkill isn’t aimed at me, so I just jump in whenever I want instead of acting like I need it

If they wanted a focus on player retention, then you'd think they'd reduce FOMO, RNG, and time gates, so that people won't take look at these systems and go "F that, i'm going to apex legends or something". Replayability is what retains players, just look at old games like TF2 or counter strike.

But the archon shard system has been all three of those at once, in the dumbest of ways. Not a great endgame imo.

[Venus-Venera]

Oh well.
for which content? Because in the end only relics are played and it rarely depends on equip. Because the missions are designed for one player and 3 others can even play naked. And this “firepower” can be distributed among 4 players and you can immediately see that the requirements for missions are very low.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Just now, Kaiga said:

If they wanted a focus on player retention, then you'd think they'd reduce FOMO, RNG, and time gates, so that people won't take look at these systems and go "F that, i'm going to apex legends or something". Replayability is what retains players, just look at old games like TF2 or counter strike.

But the archon shard system has been all three of those at once, in the dumbest of ways. Not a great endgame imo.

There’s tons of replayability, I’ve been doing this for years now.

I’m honestly kind of surprised by how badly the business and gameplay side align; the business side (and, let’s face it, community) wants to manipulate its players into thinking Shards and excessive power (like G-roll rivens) are mandatory and thus worth sinking time and money into, the gameplay side doesn’t need that to have a good time. So just by playing the game and looking for the fights it can provide and the various ways to customise for those fights instead of ways to turn the game off (though that can be fun too in moderation), that puts me at odds with the business side. You’ll note that the Meta does not equal the entire game.

I’m wondering though how many players the weekly system has kept around that would otherwise have moved on when they blazed through the new content and were left with even more power and even fewer places that actually stands up against it, blowing the game away and then wondering where the game went after all the napkin maths and theory crafting

[(PSN)robotwars7]

ok, so this is kinda freaky, as not more than 2 days ago I was actually thinking about what new archon shards would look like, and I literally thought "yeah, green orange and purple, surely?". of course, I was also under the assumption there's be new archons to fight, even if they just mixed together random sentient and warframe bits and called it a day... instead they're asking to use surplus shards to craft them?

my response is "what surplus? lol", because I've done every archon hunt every week since new War Dropped, and always applied all my shards, so I don't have spares lying around: I'd have to rip them off of frames to make them, and for what? what do these new shards do? green one mentions toxin/corrosive so are they just elemental? Orange shards for heat damage and purple for electric or something? if that's the case then aren't they only really gonna be useful on elemental frames?

even then they don't look like they're going to add a whole lot more power, so I don't know if I'll be bothering with this.. I would have preferred combing 2 or 3 of the SAME shard to make a Tauforged over this.. apparently I'm not the only one..

[Waeleto]

1 hour ago, NekroArts said:

No, they're assuming you're in the same position as this person.

 

Here's the thing, i will not be fusing shards when there's a warframe who has a shard slot empty, as long as there is a single warframe without 5 shards then i can't say i have "extra" shards, this system is extremely flawed 

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, Voltage said:

I totally spaced this aspect of it too. Mannn....

Here's another fun one, Shards still aren't config-compatible. Got a cool build that uses a certain ability (or worse, weapon) for Toxin procs and want to use a bunch of Greens? Hope you plan to use those Greens on every single config you own. This didn't matter too much when Shards were just flat bonuses (and was just an annoyance), but with how situational a lot of these new effects are it's gonna be a problem that can't just be hand-waved. Man, it's almost like not future-proofing content makes things harder in the future?

Edited November 24, 2023 by PublikDomain

[sly_squash]

Honestly my take on it is that it's kinda fine.  If you're like me and you tend to use only a few, specialized frames then it's nice to be able to supercharge the shards you use with them.  And if you like using lots of stuff, then spread out the baby shards among everything; I'm sure the extra boost from fusing shards isn't gonna be much considering that even Tau shards are only an extra 50%.

Since I only slot to Primes, I was actually already running out of places to put shards anyway.  I filled my "core" lineup of frames I actually use and care about ages ago and am almost done with my second string "good for duviri sp circuit" lineup.  At this point I was slotting stuff to frames like Inaros being like "I guess if I need to do an MR test it might be kinda useful on him"

Kinda hope they let you supercharge tau.  Otherwise it'll probably be a bit of a coin flip which is better: fused or tau.

 

My concern is actually on the other end of the spectrum:  a new source of shards.  i.e. ANOTHER WEEKLY TASK

For completionists, this is all getting a bit ridiculous.

• First Nightwave, which was fine because it relieved us of having to chase down alerts all the time and a lot of the tasks had their own rewards.
• Then archon hunts and kahl, which were fine-ish cuz they only took an hour or two combined.
• Then Duviri Circuit, which is not-so-fine because it takes active traders like a whole evening to farm out the incarnons and the clamps to slot them.
• Now we're adding more weekly archon missions to the mix.

Just feels a bit much to me.

Edited November 24, 2023 by sly_squash

[ShogunGunshow]

Bet all those people that skipped blue weeks feel dumb now. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

24 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Bet all those people that skipped blue weeks feel dumb now. 

That would require awareness. They'll blame DE for implementing the system.

[Voltage]

56 minutes ago, sly_squash said:

My concern is actually on the other end of the spectrum:  a new source of shards.  i.e. ANOTHER WEEKLY TASK

For completionists, this is all getting a bit ridiculous.

• First Nightwave, which was fine because it relieved us of having to chase down alerts all the time and a lot of the tasks had their own rewards.
• Then archon hunts and kahl, which were fine-ish cuz they only took an hour or two combined.
• Then Duviri Circuit, which is not-so-fine because it takes active traders like a whole evening to farm out the incarnons and the clamps to slot them.
• Now we're adding more weekly archon missions to the mix.

Just feels a bit much to me.

I share this concern but I've kind of given up. Warframe's endgame is the same as some other games in just having server reset task loops to keep up with between major updates.

[Ifeanoiba]

 

[RichardKam]

People said tau forge shard destroyed their friendship, were unfair, were RNG.

DE improved the mechanics so you can have 100% chance of getting tau forge. People were still unhappy.

People said archon shards were time gated, and once you acquired enough of them archon hunt became irrelevant, and asked for a way to utilize redundant shards.

Now DE provides a way to make extra shards, and prople are still unhappy.

Pepperidge farm remembers.

[CephalonCarnage]

3 hours ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

Thought that they said there was going to be a new way to get shards, also this fusing system is very close to what people wanted being able to fuse normal shards to get tao shards.

From what i heard they are:

Quote

A new way to acquire shards in the form of a derelict vault style mission in the new tileset. At the start of the mission you will need to pick up a set of glyphs that act as keys. If working as a team you can divide the glyphs but solo players will have to stack glyphs. This mission is limited per week, but seems like you can do more than 1 per week.

Hard-mode Orokin infested vaults baby.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb Ifeanoiba:

 

I'm afraid to watch first 10 minutes. Is this about hypnosis?

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

4 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Seems what I’m understanding is someone who digs their own hole to jump into.

You know that thing that DE have struggled with, player retention because players make their Meta builds, find out there was never any reason to do so aside from personal goal, then leave the game only to return when a new update drops?

I’m thinking the timegate and Archon Shard business is aimed at keeping those players who chase redundant amounts of power like it’s the only thing worth doing. Personally I would like easier access to Shards as well, but that supply trickle of things that push players that bit higher into the realm of unnecessary overkill isn’t aimed at me, so I just jump in whenever I want instead of acting like I need it

I like how just sneak the premise that DE is in fact struggling with player retention, and the premise that they're struggling with that *because players making meta builds* is the issue and not something else, into this argument without any evidence to back up either claim.

 

Its not just about "unnecessary overkill". We already have "unnecessary overkill". 

This is also about trying to add more *build choices and diversity* to the game.

[ShogunGunshow]

If the green one for corrosive stacks remains I will be simultaneously pleased and annoyed.

Corrosive is the anti-armor element, I don't think you should have to use end-game materials and upgrades to make it actually do its job, lol.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

1 hour ago, CephalonCarnage said:

From what i heard they are:

Hard-mode Orokin infested vaults baby.

That's what I thought, I love running some iso vaults, so gimme more of that with shard rewards plz.

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

4 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

There’s tons of replayability, I’ve been doing this for years now.

I’m honestly kind of surprised by how badly the business and gameplay side align; the business side (and, let’s face it, community) wants to manipulate its players into thinking Shards and excessive power (like G-roll rivens) are mandatory and thus worth sinking time and money into, the gameplay side doesn’t need that to have a good time. So just by playing the game and looking for the fights it can provide and the various ways to customise for those fights instead of ways to turn the game off (though that can be fun too in moderation), that puts me at odds with the business side. You’ll note that the Meta does not equal the entire game.

I’m wondering though how many players the weekly system has kept around that would otherwise have moved on when they blazed through the new content and were left with even more power and even fewer places that actually stands up against it, blowing the game away and then wondering where the game went after all the napkin maths and theory crafting

I mean… without at least 2 amber shards my Voruna build is a real pain without dropping an energy pad and waiting a minute for my energy to fill at the start of a mission. That’s pretty mandatory to having a good time for me at least. 

[garbenzine]

I'm easily amused by bright colors, so if nothing else I'm glad to have three more.  Now we need a sixth shard slot, so the ephemera can use all six colors.