Melee Arcanes/Exilus Slots

[(XBOX)Muevelos]

I was curious on everyone's opinion what could be the Melee Arcanes? I know we don't really know but if we're guessing what do you guys think they could be? Do you think they will be added to the Acolyte table?

 

Also Melee Exilius, I know the new TennoKai mods(9?)will have the ability to be put in this slot, but I was curious what you guys think other mods they will look at and add to this slot? In theory, looking at secondary and primary I can see a case where primed Primed Reach Should be here. Which would help a lot of builds and give more flexibility for more damage or double dipping on utility. 

 

Thanks all!

[TeaHands]

More than anything I'm curious if there are any restrictions or incompatible mods/arcanes with Exalted Weapons.

Could be a nice boost for Valkyr.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Gun Arcanes were introduced because in SP, Melee was outpacing Guns.

adding those Arcanes to Melee too, would defeat the point.

 

if balance has become an issue, perhaps toning down those gun arcanes would be a better course than Just More Powercreep>?

 

 

[Numerounius]

5 minutes ago, TeaHands said:

More than anything I'm curious if there are any restrictions or incompatible mods/arcanes with Exalted Weapons.

Could be a nice boost for Valkyr.

You can't equip weapon arcanes onto exalted weapons, so the answer to that is going to be 90% certain that no will not be equippable with exalteds.

Now whether or not there is synergy with pusedo exalteds and even just a passive boost from a regular weapon applied over remains to be seen.

[Tiltskillet]

I don't recall any hint that DE was going to make any old mods exilus, although it would make sense to do so.  If not right away, because they're focused on tennokai, then eventually.  I expect more power to be concentrated in the new arcanes.

If any old melee mods are converted to exilus, they're  hopefully more things like Dispatch Overdrive and Body Count and less things like Primed Reach.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Tiltskillet

[Joezone619]

I'll take the arcanes and the exlius slot (finally), but i have absolutely no intentions whatsoever to use the new "tennokai" system if its as described on devstream. Easier to just max out heavy attack speed and spam. Plus, forced heavy attacks seem gross.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Melee already have stacking mods. That was the reason why melee outperform guns when Steel Path was introduced. I just want a exilus mod or arcane that get rid of combo counter then gives us a flat bonus. I never liked using combo counter as another type of resource to manage.

[Tiltskillet]

8 minutes ago, Joezone619 said:

Plus, forced heavy attacks seem gross.

Forced?

[(XBOX)Muevelos]

18 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I don't recall any hint that DE was going to make any old mods exilus, although it would make sense to do so.  If not right away, because they're focused on tennokai, then eventually.  I expect more power to be concentrated in the new arcanes.

If any old melee mods are converted to exilus, they're  hopefully more things like Dispatch Overdrive and Body Count and less things like Primed Reach.

 

 

It would make sense to allow P Reach in that slot, if not maybe they'll give us Primed Parry

[(PSN)Unstar]

49 minutes ago, (XBOX)Muevelos said:

I was curious on everyone's opinion what could be the Melee Arcanes?

• Melee Deadhead
• Melee Merciless
• Melee Dexterity

[(PSN)Unstar]

6 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Forced?

Presumably it feels forced as if you are using a TennoKai mod and want to maximize your damage output, you should generally be pressing the heavy attack button whenever TennoKai "procs".

Thankfully it doesn't seem like it will truly be forced in that way, since players can use a different mod instead of a TennoKai mod if they choose.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I mostly still assume the Exilus slots will be primarily for the Tennokai system. Though I could be wrong on that, and would be happy to be. 

Arcane wise, well... I actually hope they are leaning more into having some general all purpose Arcanes, and some more specialised Arcanes, that fit certain weapon types. The way we started getting Arcanes like Shotgun Vendetta, Longbow Longshot and that Arcane for Heavy Blades. Since... this way, DE can address certain weapons weaknesses or specific issues, without running the risk of broadly over tuning or unbalancing other weapons that don't need it, just because they so happen to all be melee weapons broadly. Some speciality Arcanes could be interesting approach, and not all their issues are the same. So that is my hope at least. 

More ways to help keep combo would be nice as well. 5 seconds as default feels too.. meh for me personally. Also Arcanes that deal with the issue of follow through. I kind of feel like thats just sort of lame in Warframe, as a concept. Like if I go through the trouble of gathering all these enemies to a spot close to me, or let them build up enough to that density, Warframes swinging a super massive heavy sword through them should cut them all up nicely, not diminish, but thats just me. I also say that as someone who generally prefers guns, and obviously such systems are more complicated than I am conveying too (like I wouldn't want all weapons to be able to easily kill enemies through walls just by tickling them from 10 meters away with a whip or something). 

[Voltage]

Interested to see how involved maxing out this system will be. Looks like something interesting to sink my teeth into personally. I'm almost 100% done with Incarnon Adapters, so this seems like the next thing to go for.

I do hope there's flavor in these Arcanes and not the melee equivalent of Primary/Secondary Merciless or Molt Augmented.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Muevelos said:

It would make sense to allow P Reach in that slot,

Well, there are different kinds of sense. :P

[quxier]

4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

4 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Plus, forced heavy attacks seem gross.

Forced?

Like, you are doing some attacks (e.g. forward combo) then you have stop and do Heavy attack when they want. Sure, they might have 0 wind up speed but the attack itself will probably take time and locks you in place.

I need to see it in action but I not excited. It seems like "little better" old system (with random pause to execute combos). I hated that system.

[Tiltskillet]

51 minutes ago, quxier said:

Like, you are doing some attacks (e.g. forward combo) then you have stop and do Heavy attack when they want.

It's a short window to activate a fast, 100% efficiency heavy attack if you want. Otherwise ignore it when it's not convenient.

58 minutes ago, quxier said:

It seems like "little better" old system (with random pause to execute combos). I hated that system.

The old combos were all about memorizing  timing and  varied with every stance.  This is looking for a single visual cue and reacting to it.  Time will tell if it's good or not, but if it's bad it won't be because it's imitating the old combo controls.

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

man I hope they let Reach/Primed Reach become an Exilus.. that would be really nice. as for the Arcanes, who knows, so I imagine there'll probably be one that gives overguard or something like that, probably a few that add elemental procs or something, and then one clearly OP/actually mega-useful Arcane, like " has X chance to give a small amount of energy on Melee Crit" or something like that.

considering how powerful melee is, it's not like the arcanes need to be all that dramatically powerful, but I am hoping that some of the truly rubbish, low-stat melees like Cadus and Plasma Sword might finally become properly usable in SP.

[ReddyDisco]

I'm quite interested to see what they could be, melee has been falling behind guns for a while, especially since incarnons were added. i find myself only using heavy attack melee like ceramic dagger or exodia contagion, melee arcanes might revive combo melee again. 

[Waeleto]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)Muevelos said:

I was curious on everyone's opinion what could be the Melee Arcanes? I know we don't really know but if we're guessing what do you guys think they could be? Do you think they will be added to the Acolyte table?

 

Also Melee Exilius, I know the new TennoKai mods(9?)will have the ability to be put in this slot, but I was curious what you guys think other mods they will look at and add to this slot? In theory, looking at secondary and primary I can see a case where primed Primed Reach Should be here. Which would help a lot of builds and give more flexibility for more damage or double dipping on utility. 

 

Thanks all!

I'm SO excited for tennokai i feel like this will finally push forgotten weapons (hespar/ghoulsaw/war) to being good
If there's an arcane or exilus that gives attack speed i can see heavy blades being very powerful again

[PollexMessier]

I'll be surprised if it's enough.
Tennokai looks kindof incredibly awful. Free heavy attack at complete random that you have to be paying attention to a flash of light to capitalize on and god forbid you're in the middle of an animation and buffer a heavy attack that goes off as the window is gone and now you lose all your god damn combo because heavy attack efficiency is a huge waste of a mod slot. Still requires you to build and maintain combo to be any good, and then there's the fact that the system requires a mod for you to even have access to it. Hopefully the tennokai mods have stats that are actually worth slotting outside of adding that feature. I doubt it.

Unless heavy attack efficiency and combo decay become innate functions of the combo system instead of requiring a whole mod slot and focus school to have I'm never going to care about it outside of the few incarnon weapons with special features that supplement combo so much you barely have to pay attention to it at all. "Few" being a very generous assumption because I only know one, since I haven't bothered with incarnon adapters much. And tennokai specifically feels like DE's way of trying to circumvent the issues of combo without actually addressing them. Which is just their signature move at this point.

Arcanes could be good. But I'm not all that exited about yet another stacking buff timer to worry about on mele and that's likely what they're going to be. Mele's main issue is how much of a ramp up they need to actually become useable. We don't need more conditional ramping mechanics on them. We need flat buffs.

I also have a pretty big concern of Mod capacity. Right now there are a decent chunk of mele builds that require you to nearly polarize every slot. Adding exilus on top of that is too much unless they do some balancing on mele mod capacities, or make umbra forma massively more available. Ideally both.

Overall. I'm happy mele is finally getting some buffs after it's been trashed on for years. But I'm not confident it'll give us any of the things we actually need.

Edited December 1, 2023 by PollexMessier

[Aruquae]

Don’t know, but at find it funny how we had a rather large thread in the feedback about how melee sucks, and the top suggestions were an exilus and an arcane slot for melee. Don’t think it’s a coincidence, say what you want, but I believe the devs actually listened to us. 
I am curious how this will affect exalted weapons though. I hope I can attach a melee arcane and exilus to the talons. 
I do hope it even works for exalted in general. 

[SneakyErvin]

I hope the melee arcanes will be more about utility and not just more damage, since damage isnt exactly the issue with melee. So arcanes that provide healing, increased DR, naramon-ish combo decay, HA efficiency, HA wind up speed, longer combo duration, increased movement speed and so on, maybe in some combination. Like naramon-ish combo decay with increased movement speed based on combo counter.

Or if they wanna go with damage (snore), maybe something like statues spread on target kill, similar to Voruna's skill. Just a bunch of +% damage gets boring, especially when not really needed.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

14 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

I mostly still assume the Exilus slots will be primarily for the Tennokai system. Though I could be wrong on that, and would be happy to be. 

Arcane wise, well... I actually hope they are leaning more into having some general all purpose Arcanes, and some more specialised Arcanes, that fit certain weapon types. The way we started getting Arcanes like Shotgun Vendetta, Longbow Longshot and that Arcane for Heavy Blades. Since... this way, DE can address certain weapons weaknesses or specific issues, without running the risk of broadly over tuning or unbalancing other weapons that don't need it, just because they so happen to all be melee weapons broadly. Some speciality Arcanes could be interesting approach, and not all their issues are the same. So that is my hope at least. 

More ways to help keep combo would be nice as well. 5 seconds as default feels too.. meh for me personally. Also Arcanes that deal with the issue of follow through. I kind of feel like thats just sort of lame in Warframe, as a concept. Like if I go through the trouble of gathering all these enemies to a spot close to me, or let them build up enough to that density, Warframes swinging a super massive heavy sword through them should cut them all up nicely, not diminish, but thats just me. I also say that as someone who generally prefers guns, and obviously such systems are more complicated than I am conveying too (like I wouldn't want all weapons to be able to easily kill enemies through walls just by tickling them from 10 meters away with a whip or something). 

All what you listed used to be melee. Maining Strike made it a big issue where certain melee were able to have 16m range, hitting through walls, cleaving 10+ enemies with no falloff. I don't think DE is willing to bring that playstyle back.

[quxier]

13 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

14 hours ago, quxier said:

Like, you are doing some attacks (e.g. forward combo) then you have stop and do Heavy attack when they want.

It's a short window to activate a fast, 100% efficiency heavy attack if you want.

That's the thing, I have to answer if I want to use heavy attack now. Sure it will be faster and free but it won't be without cons (not even counting activation window).

 

13 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Otherwise ignore it when it's not convenient.

That's what I'm doing with mecha set that creates zones for some effects OR kitgun/frame combo arcanes (residual and another one). I ignore them. It's not good to look for some random and SHORT LIVED zones.

It might not be the case with that stuff but I'm not excited.

13 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

14 hours ago, quxier said:

It seems like "little better" old system (with random pause to execute combos). I hated that system.

The old combos were all about memorizing  timing and  varied with every stance.  This is looking for a single visual cue and reacting to it.  Time will tell if it's good or not, but if it's bad it won't be because it's imitating the old combo controls.

When I compared those 2 (old melee system and "visual cue to execute faster/free heavy") I meant your action were disjoint from the rest of game. When you press "forward key" and press/hold melee attack you expect frame to moves forward while attacking. Action and reaction (thank you one of the Matrix movie). In old melee system you could do something like E > E > E > PAUSE > E. Why this pause existed? We don't know. Same for "single visual cue". (Unless it's every Nth attack) we don't know why and when it happens.

Now let's compare it to better system: glaives. Glaives (with mods?) have something like "continues throws" where you throw and catch glaives without delay (e.g. no changing to guns). It's "timed" event but it's build around it. You can even make it quicker (to return glaive).

Sure, time will tell, because with some mods/arcanes/stuff it can be pretty good.

 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

10 hours ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

All what you listed used to be melee. Maining Strike made it a big issue where certain melee were able to have 16m range, hitting through walls, cleaving 10+ enemies with no falloff. I don't think DE is willing to bring that playstyle back.

 

Yes. Except, some of what I listed, and that was intentional reference. The other stuff I mentioned earlier, would address that, as in speciality Arcanes. Nami Skyla doesn't really need an indiscriminate attack speed boost from an additional source, but some Heavy Blades could. We already have an Arcane a bit like this, Magus Aggress. Whips don't need extra range and no fall off, but shorter range slower but bigger weapons could. Gunblades, Glaive Prime, don't really need extra help, just like say Latron Incarnon and Torid Incarnon don't either, but we can get Arcanes like Longbow Sharpshot and Shotgun Vendetta (which those aforementioned Primary can't use), which, actually can be pretty strong on many bows and shotguns, but also play to those weapons playstyles (having to be close etc), so what I am suggesting is almost the opposite of what happening with Maiming Strike.