January 2024 Riven Dispositions

[[DE]Connor]

Greetings Tenno!

I’ll make this fast - Gauss Prime has sprinted onto all platforms, so let’s blow past the first Riven changes of 2024.

In our last series of changes, we announced that we would try our best to avoid Disposition decreases, instead focusing on more direct changes to weapons and specific interactions if necessary. This is still our philosophy for the year going forward, so enjoy the following Riven Disposition increases - thanks everyone!

PRIMARIES

Spoiler

Afentis: 0.95->1

Cinta: 0.85->1

Ferrox: 1.15->1.2
Tenet Ferrox: 0.95->1

Fulmin: 0.85->0.9
Fulmin Prime: 0.6->0.65

Lenz: 1->1.05
Prisma Lenz: 0.7->0.8

Perigale: 0.95->1.05

Rauta: 0.75->0.85

Rubico Prime: 0.6->0.65

Steflos: 0.95->1.05

SECONDARIES

Spoiler

Afuris Prime: 0.9->0.95

Cyanex: 0.95->1

Grimoire: 0.5->0.55

Zylok Prime: 0.5->0.65

MELEES

Spoiler

Argo & Vel: 0.7->0.85

Azothane: 0.8->0.85

Cobra & Crane Prime: 0.95->1

Corufell: 0.75->0.8

Dorrclave: 0.5->0.7

Edun: 0.8->0.9

Ekhein: 0.5->0.7

Gunsen Prime: 0.65->0.75

Halikar Wraith: 1.15->1.2

Hespar: 0.85->0.9

Masseter Prime: 0.5->0.7

Prisma Ohma: 0.7->0.75

Sampotes: 0.9->1
(we actually missed a note on the last workshop where Sampotes went from 0.75 to 0.9, apologies!)

Sarofang: 0.8->0.9

Slaytra: 0.9->0.95

Vericres: 1->1.05

ARCHGUNS

Spoiler

Mandonel: 0.5->0.6

[S.P.A.W.N]

theres some nice 

[Voltage]

Thanks for the updated dispositions. Maybe in 2024 Riven Disposition can be revisited due to the power ceiling the game has as well as many other factors that makes Disposition just annoying for the system.

Any chance Archguns can get examined to make Faction Damage not exclusive to Riven Mods? :)

[Xsoskeleton]

all green nice

[B3nDover]

DE, if you're increasing the Zylok's disposition for rivens, can you also please help it out with a fix for its multishot bug, in the incarnon form? Pretty please? :D

[Voltage]

4 minutes ago, B3nDover said:

DE, if you're increasing the Zylok's disposition for rivens, can you also please help it out with a fix for its multishot bug, in the incarnon form? Pretty please? :D

I wouldn't hold your breath. Tenet Detron has had bugged multishot since it was added with Sisters of Parvos.

[Halo]

Dorrclave getting the love it deserves, I am pleased. 

[Wheelhouser]

Something I've always wondered, but never asked (or come across the answer) - Why start new weapons so low?  Why not 1.0 to start and go from there?

Especially obviously not good new weapons.

[Ouroboroz_Prime]

Perfect! Some love for Hespar and Corufell 

Now we need a better stance for those and I'll be gleaming 

[Crevab]

2 hours ago, Voltage said:

I wouldn't hold your breath. Tenet Detron has had bugged multishot since it was added with Sisters of Parvos.

What's this?

[Tiltskillet]

5 minutes ago, Crevab said:

What's this?

Multishot doesn't work on hitscan AoE weapon damage.  More details (and some non-hitscan AoE examples) here:

edit: Actually I don't know about Tenet Detron.  I don't have the weapon to test, but none of its fire modes are hitscan AoE and it's not mentioned as one of the other examples on the list.

Edited January 17 by Tiltskillet

[RyllusPurple]

Duviri chads eating well this week...

[Her_Lovely_Tentacles]

No nerfs, which means we only had underperforming weapons due to excessive caution :/

Low dispo on release is just killing the hype of new prime weapons, since they will be outperformed by their regular counterparts for half a year

[GSDAkatsuki]

So no Dispo nerf to Torid due to your recent change in Riven philosophy, so any plans on changing it because that 1.30 dispo is still quite outrageous for what is already a ridiculously strong weapon. 

So any plans to do a larger wave of buffs for weapons, because a lot are sitting at levels that are still much lower than they should be considering changes in meta and nerfs in the past.

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

Really? Another one with No Buffs for the GHOULSAW?! Is this punishment for getting GHOULSAW up to my Most Used Melee?

[Tiltskillet]

47 minutes ago, Her_Lovely_Tentacles said:

No nerfs, which means we only had underperforming weapons due to excessive caution :/

After three dispo passes without any decreases, and all that in the context of Incarnon Genesis weapons, my takeaway is they've lost the willingness to nerf overperforming weapon dispos. 

[GSDAkatsuki]

56 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

After three dispo passes without any decreases, and all that in the context of Incarnon Genesis weapons, my takeaway is they've lost the willingness to nerf overperforming weapon dispos. 

I mean at this point they should just take every weapon's disposition and set it at base 1.00 including new primed if they don't plan on nerfing anymore.

[Voltage]

3 hours ago, Crevab said:

What's this?

 

3 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

-snip-

[SABRETOOTH1971]

6 hours ago, Wheelhouser said:

Something I've always wondered, but never asked (or come across the answer) - Why start new weapons so low?  Why not 1.0 to start and go from there?

Especially obviously not good new weapons.

They use to start with higher stats, but when the new weapons were released and larger pool of the players got to test them the Devs would notice how over powered some of them were - unbalancing the weapon and making certain weapons meta. This would make the rivens rediculously expensive and when DE had to nurf the riven and weapon, people would become mad because they spend loads of plat on them. So, DE decided to release new riven mods with the lowest power. That way they could monitor the weapons strength over the coming months and rather than nurf a weapon it would be increased in power which usually satisfies the player base more than nurfing does.

Edited January 17 by SABRETOOTH1971

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, SABRETOOTH1971 said:

They use to start with higher stats, but when the new weapons were released and larger pool of the players got to test them the Devs would notice how over powered some of them were - unbalancing the weapon and making certain weapons meta. This would make the rivens rediculously expensive and when DE had to nurf the riven and weapon, people would become mad because they spend loads of plat on them. So, DE decided to release new riven mods with the lowest power. That way they could monitor the weapons strength over the coming months and rather than nurf a weapon it would be increased in power which usually satisfies the player base more than nurfing does.

They never had to nerf the Rivens. If every weapon had the exact same Disposition, people would still gravitate towards weapons like Glaive Prime or Kuva Zarr for general nuking. You could nerf Torid right now in Disposition and the usage of the Incarnon would remain unchanged. The popularity of a weapon is purely dictated by what it achieves fundamentally with their stats and gimmicks. Riven Mods resulting in some massive spike of performance is from many years ago when they could make or break builds. Those interactions were addressed, and Rivens these days are quite far down the food chain compared to how many other ways the player is given tools to buff their weapons. The best example of this is Sentient Surge for Ocucor. The popularity and usage of this weapon is purely due to the mechanics of the Nightwave mod. A Riven Modded Ocucor for years has not had the same popularity, because the base characteristics of Ocucor aren't all that special. Sentient Surge adds several buffs that fundamentally change how the weapon is used, and that change is in a direction that has become popular. 

Handicapping Prime weapon Dispositions just makes them dead on arrival for people who like Riven Mods. Gauss Prime Access is an exception for both weapons being solid AoE weapons, but why would I care about Afuris Prime from Baruuk if I have had a high Dispo loadout for Prisma Twin Gremlins or Aksomati Prime for years now? 

[Revacon]

3 hours ago, SABRETOOTH1971 said:

They use to start with higher stats, but when the new weapons were released and larger pool of the players got to test them the Devs would notice how over powered some of them were - unbalancing the weapon and making certain weapons meta. This would make the rivens rediculously expensive and when DE had to nurf the riven and weapon, people would become mad because they spend loads of plat on them. So, DE decided to release new riven mods with the lowest power. That way they could monitor the weapons strength over the coming months and rather than nurf a weapon it would be increased in power which usually satisfies the player base more than nurfing does.

the reason is actually because of a very specific event. The Catchmoon on release in combination with Rivens is probably the strongest weapon (in comparison to all other weapons at any given time) we have ever had, it was better than EVERYTHING, and by extension had a higher than 50% usage rate, while at the same time allowing us faster clear speeds than ever before.

Since DE only cares about usage rates and clear speed (along with player opinion to a lesser degree) this literally broke them and they went crazy nerfing several things, including dumping the catch moon into the abyss and also nerfing starting riven dispo to 0.5 due to the fact they monitor all trades and where seeing several people spending $1000 plus dollars of platinum on Catchmoon Rivens, (because back then without weapon arcanes, galvanized mods, or the buffed corrupted crit mods, Rivens were much more important, and Catchmoon felt amazing (remember this was back when self-damage was a thing, so most aoe weapons were unusable.)

[Hexerin]

21 minutes ago, Revacon said:

(remember this was back when self-damage was a thing, so most aoe weapons were unusable if you were a brainless spammer)

Fixed that for you.

[LuciferTF]

Azothane: 0.8->0.85

Dorrclave: 0.5->0.7

Gunsen Prime: 0.65->0.75

All at once? That's a win if I've ever seen one

[D-Goth]

Can we also talk about the gigantic nerf that we suffered from the “Doubles Keres Prime” on the Riven influence?
Before patch I had 11.4x in Multiplier, after patch barely 10.1x.
And the difference of 2 points out of 5 between the “Prime” version and the “Classic” version. Where a riven passes from:
(P. Version - Nerfed post patch)
+79% Melee Damage
+93% critical chance
x 1.24 damage to Grineers

(Classic Version - Post Patch) (For the Same RIVEN!!)
+135.2%
+157.3%
x 1.4

I don't see them in the patchnote list... Any explanation?
(Screenshot available, and shown to DE[KEV] via Discord)

[Tiltskillet]

10 minutes ago, D-Goth said:

Can we also talk about the gigantic nerf that we suffered from the “Doubles Keres Prime” on the Riven influence?
Before patch I had 11.4x in Multiplier, after patch barely 10.1x.
And the difference of 2 points out of 5 between the “Prime” version and the “Classic” version. Where a riven passes from:
(P. Version - Nerfed post patch)
+79% Melee Damage
+93% critical chance
x 1.24 damage to Grineers

(Classic Version - Post Patch) (For the Same RIVEN!!)
+135.2%
+157.3%
x 1.4

I don't see them in the patchnote list... Any explanation?
(Screenshot available, and shown to DE[KEV] via Discord)

These numbers are  in the correct ranges with the published dispositions of the Dual Keres and Dual Keres Prime. 0.65 and 1.10 respectively.  The last update to Dual Keres Prime was in July, raising it from 0.6 to 0.65.

If you're 100% certain you saw those higher numbers while it was slotted on Dual Keres Prime in the Arsenal  then this would be a case of DE fixing a disposition bug, not a nerf.