Please Restore Ember

[Shiro-Nethermore]

Please Give Ember back her Older Kit. i don't ever See any one play her now and i know i don't. So please fix her

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

uh i play her.... guess im not any other player...

[HanShan7]

I get people miss her old kit but I don’t think she needs fixing. I play ember sometimes and I don’t have any issues, she’s just energy hungry. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

The most I can see her getting is QoL stuff, old ember can stay in the void

[trst]

As yes "fix" a frame by making them only viable for speed running Lith Fissures. Old Ember was trash and was only tolerated for being able to clear low level missions with zero effort.

[BiancaRoughfin]

1 hour ago, Shiro-Nethermore said:

Please Give Ember back her Older Kit. i don't ever See any one play her now and i know i don't. So please fix her

The problem with Old Ember was her World of Fire that people would turn on and run towards extraction killing everything or in Defense missions just leave her in some unreachable corner and go afk. I dont mind it being brought back, as long as it gets some tweaking to avoid afking.

Also, i see people playing her every now and then, not the whole time and not as often as i would like but shes there.

[Voltage]

21 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

The problem with Old Ember was her World of Fire that people would turn on and run towards extraction killing everything or in Defense missions just leave her in some unreachable corner and go afk. I dont mind it being brought back, as long as it gets some tweaking to avoid afking.

Also, i see people playing her every now and then, not the whole time and not as often as i would like but shes there.

World on Fire in 2015 was no different than Titania with Thermal Sunder in 2024. The only reason World on Fire was nerfed was because there was a higher priority from the devs to address methods of AoE. World on Fire in today's Warframe wouldn't even be broken or out of place. Inferno isn't even a massive downgrade to World on Fire and it's still nothing crazy.

I think what OP is trying to ask for is Ember (an older Warframe without a strong presence like Volt, Rhino, or Saryn) getting brought up to par with every modern Warframe/rework that just makes them do everything by themselves. She's much better off than some Warframes though. It doesn't help that Helminth undermines so many Warframe skills that give them a reason to stand out (Fireblast, Thermal Sunder, Nourish, Eclipse, Roar, Elemental Ward, and so many others).

Edited January 29 by Voltage

[Xylia]

The danger of introducing so many characters (or, rather, warframes in this game) is that you are going to run into the problem of several of them just not being very useful.

This ALWAYS happens, whether it's Warframe, Genshin Impact, or any game that has lots of classes/jobs. You either homogenize them to make sure they all have roughly the same capability, or you allow some of them to fade into the sands of obscurity because they can't keep up with others.

There's literally nothing you can do about it. You can try rebalances, but those are risky because some players, like the OP, will dislike any changes made to their beloved frame/character/class and there will always be at least a few holdouts, like the OP.

Not saying the OP is wrong, not saying the OP is right.

Just saying that this sort of thing is inevitable.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

2 hours ago, Shiro-Nethermore said:

Please Give Ember back her Older Kit. i don't ever See any one play her now and i know i don't. So please fix her

if you mean world on fire, no thanks: not only was it as bad as thermal sunder nuking is now for low level missions, and she'd fall off almost immediately on higher level missions: some would argue she does that now anyway. the main problem with ember is by nature; fire can only do one thing: damage stuff. sure, it can armor strip now, but gradual reductions can't compete with abilities that instantly full-strip enemies. Ember needs something else, and I'm gonna quickly borrow something form an unlikely place: Outriders.

in Outriders ( a "warframe killer" that certainly did not kill warframe), the Pyromancer class can not only ignite enemies to set them aflame, they can also inflict "ash" status, which petrifies the target briefly and makes them take significantly more damage from all attacks. it goes a long way to help against tougher enemies, giving you a moment to breathe when being attacked and timing it with a few well placed headshots can result in nice big damage numbers and easy kills. it also adds another dimension to the gameplay because you aren't just pressing a button to set people on fire, which can get boring, it's a question of "do I ignite to heal or just ash them and go for the kill"?, and the answer varies on the situation, key word "varies" meaning there's variety.

put simply, Ember needs to do more than just set people on fire, because that alone isn't good enough, even on a Pyromancer. a few brief ideas:

- Ignis Sanctum: create a flaming barrier that protects against attacks; projectiles that strike it are burned to ash, while melee attackers are scorched upon attacking.

- Infernal Munitions: Ember makes herself and allies' weapons shoot superheated munitions, adding bonus heat damage and procs to all ranged weapon attacks.

- De-forge: Ember disarms enemies by making their weapons melt into lava in their hands, dealing heat damage and forcing them into melee.

- Devil's Edge; Ember imbues her melee weapon with additional heat damage and heavy melee attacks send lashes of fire hurling towards enemies, dealing heat damage at range.

she really does need some love, but reverting her to her terrible old kit isn't the way. sadly reworks come at a snail's pace so she's gonna remain where she is for the foreseeable future.

[Xzorn]

4 hours ago, trst said:

As yes "fix" a frame by making them only viable for speed running Lith Fissures. Old Ember was trash and was only tolerated for being able to clear low level missions with zero effort.

 

Didn't try playing Ember at higher levels I'm guessing? Her 4th was good ambient CC to go along with Accelerant.

She had good CC and with Fireball Frenzy + Accelerant she also had group value. This is my old Ember's damage amp calc.

 

Spoiler

Soma + Bladed: [ 98.04 + 176.472 ] * [ 1 + ( 10.2 -1 ) * [ 75 / 100 ] * 200 / 200 / [ 3 + (200 - 1) / 15 ]
274.512 * 7.9 * 12.295 = 26,663.67

Soma + Bladed + Fireball + FireAccel [ 98.04 + 176.472 + {(181.374 + 90.7) x 5.5}] * [ 1 + ( 10.2 -1 ) * [ 75 / 100 ] * 200 / 200 / [ 3 + (200 - 1) / 15 ]
1,531.494 * 7.9 * 12.295 = 148,754.766
(148754.766 - 26667.67) / 26667.67 = 4.578 = +458% Increase in DPS.

Now she had nothing. No group value. No CC and for what? A goofy mitigation mechanic? She got obliterated.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

4 hours ago, Voltage said:

World on Fire in 2015 was no different than Titania with Thermal Sunder in 2024. The only reason World on Fire was nerfed was because there was a higher priority from the devs to address methods of AoE. World on Fire in today's Warframe wouldn't even be broken or out of place. Inferno isn't even a massive downgrade to World on Fire and it's still nothing crazy.

I think what OP is trying to ask for is Ember (an older Warframe without a strong presence like Volt, Rhino, or Saryn) getting brought up to par with every modern Warframe/rework that just makes them do everything by themselves. She's much better off than some Warframes though. It doesn't help that Helminth undermines so many Warframe skills that give them a reason to stand out (Fireblast, Thermal Sunder, Nourish, Eclipse, Roar, Elemental Ward, and so many others).

You used to be able to turn on world on fire, leave it on, and parkour through the map and any enemy within range under (whatever) level would instantly die.

You didnt have to recast the ability.

You didnt have to use a weapon.

You didnt have to aim, even in a general direction.

You didnt have to use any other ability.

You didnt really even have to worry about energy. 

The most "OP" frames and weapons that exist today cannot do what that used to do.

You could do a level 15 mission with a kuva bramma and mesa and it wouldnt matter because for every time you had to stop bullet jumping long enough to cast an ability or aim, she could just cruise on through.

 

What i would do, is change her "overheat" mechanic but thats it.

[trst]

19 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Didn't try playing Ember at higher levels I'm guessing? Her 4th was good ambient CC to go along with Accelerant.

She had good CC and with Fireball Frenzy + Accelerant she also had group value. This is my old Ember's damage amp calc.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Soma + Bladed: [ 98.04 + 176.472 ] * [ 1 + ( 10.2 -1 ) * [ 75 / 100 ] * 200 / 200 / [ 3 + (200 - 1) / 15 ]
274.512 * 7.9 * 12.295 = 26,663.67

Soma + Bladed + Fireball + FireAccel [ 98.04 + 176.472 + {(181.374 + 90.7) x 5.5}] * [ 1 + ( 10.2 -1 ) * [ 75 / 100 ] * 200 / 200 / [ 3 + (200 - 1) / 15 ]
1,531.494 * 7.9 * 12.295 = 148,754.766
(148754.766 - 26667.67) / 26667.67 = 4.578 = +458% Increase in DPS.

Now she had nothing. No group value. No CC and for what? A goofy mitigation mechanic? She got obliterated.

CC was already long dead back then. The CC build was the only thing she could do beyond low level missions and players claiming it was viable were on massive copium. Same thing goes for the damage amping build as damage creep was and is still a thing.

As for current Ember she has damage resistance, armor shredding, far more AOE nuke damage than old Ember, and via augments: DR for allies and infinite energy orb generation. Plus she still has CC, for whatever value that is, with Heat procs and the knock back on Fire Blast and still has a damage amp with Fireball Frenzy.

[Lord_Chibi]

5 hours ago, Voltage said:

World on Fire in 2015 was no different than Titania with Thermal Sunder in 2024. 

Worse, Hildryn/Garuda thermal sunder in defense missions 

Edited January 30 by Lord_Chibi

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

You used to be able to turn on world on fire, leave it on, and parkour through the map and any enemy within range under (whatever) level would instantly die.

You didnt have to recast the ability.

You didnt have to use a weapon.

You didnt have to aim, even in a general direction.

You didnt have to use any other ability.

You didnt really even have to worry about energy. 

The most "OP" frames and weapons that exist today cannot do what that used to do.

Gyre says hello.

Even went ahead and recorded a quick demonstration, cause why not.

Man, I wish YouTube wasn't so trash for bitrates.

Edited January 30 by Hexerin

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

You used to be able to turn on world on fire, leave it on, and parkour through the map and any enemy within range under (whatever) level would instantly die.

You didnt have to recast the ability.

You didnt have to use a weapon.

You didnt have to aim, even in a general direction.

You didnt have to use any other ability.

You didnt really even have to worry about energy. 

The most "OP" frames and weapons that exist today cannot do what that used to do.

You could do a level 15 mission with a kuva bramma and mesa and it wouldnt matter because for every time you had to stop bullet jumping long enough to cast an ability or aim, she could just cruise on through.

What i would do, is change her "overheat" mechanic but thats it.

In technicality, they aren't the same. In practicality, they are. When Ember had World on Fire, there was no Praedos, Archon Shards, Amalgam Barrel Diffusion, Amalgam Serration, or every other way to buff movement. Sure, she didn't have to recast, but she didn't have Razorwing Blitz, Escape Velocity, or all the other things I already mentioned.

DE designed the game this way, but most of my kill-focused missions (mostly Fissures), I can get most, if not all kills with Thermal Sunder/Kuva Tonkor/Torid/Ocucor/Tenet Cycron and similar items with little aim or concern for energy consumption. Sure, Ember had less button presses than I have now, but World on Fire in today's Warframe would be outclassed and slow. It would be like forcing yourself to Chroma for an Eidolon when Volt is just far superior due to the game's progression and nature.

World of Fire was dominant in missions where you're allowed to now fly at Mach 5 as Titania with a nuke loadout anyways. If we bring up the higher levels, there are several "lazy" setups that require very little attention to be paid towards what is going on and "aiming" is a general suggestion.

Edited January 30 by Voltage

[Hexerin]

11 minutes ago, Voltage said:

World on Fire in today's Warframe would be outclassed and slow

World on Fire also wouldn't scale into Steel Path, which severely limits it. Whereas Thermal Sunder has zero issues scaling into SP Endurance, letting you take advantage of the extra boosts you get from SP while doing whatever you're doing.

[Voltage]

13 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

World on Fire also wouldn't scale into Steel Path, which severely limits it. Whereas Thermal Sunder has zero issues scaling into SP Endurance, letting you take advantage of the extra boosts you get from SP while doing whatever you're doing.

That too. I think when people look back at things like "Press 4 to win" Ash/Saryn, 360 no scope Mesa, Greedy Mag, World on Fire, etc., they miss key details about why they were good at the time. Sure, if some stuff from the old days was present now it could prove useful, but you wouldn't actually revive the melee meta that overshadowed all other equipment by simply adding just Maiming Strike's old functionality back. There are many layers as to why certain builds rise to their fame during a specific time period.

Edited January 30 by Voltage

[ReddyDisco]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

uh i play her.... guess im not any other player...

Same

[Hexerin]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

uh i play her.... guess im not any other player...

6 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

Same

Bear in mind, there's a difference between playing a frame, and playing a frame. Literally anything works on normal star chart, the question is do you play her on Steel Path? Cause try as I've ever tried, she just doesn't seem to work on Steel Path. She can clear it, but it's an absolute slog. Theoretically I could be missing some key point(s) though, and I'd welcome advice/tips from Ember players. Just like I did when Gyre was in the same place for me, and is now completely usable in SP thanks to that advice/tips I got.

[Joezone619]

I agree 99%, she doesn't need her old kit but this kit certainly needs to go.

[ReddyDisco]

11 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Bear in mind, there's a difference between playing a frame, and playing a frame. Literally anything works on normal star chart, the question is do you play her on Steel Path? Cause try as I've ever tried, she just doesn't seem to work on Steel Path. She can clear it, but it's an absolute slog. Theoretically I could be missing some key point(s) though, and I'd welcome advice/tips from Ember players. Just like I did when Gyre was in the same place for me, and is now completely usable in SP thanks to that advice/tips I got.

I do play ember on sp, if you're ok with subsumes then i would say use breach surge on the 1 for dps increase and have augment for the 4 for sustain. survivability is shield gating with rolling guard and brief respire, the 4 was fixed recently so you get shields for energy spent. it's a comfy setup i like to run.

[Marvelous_A]

One issue of Ember for me is she's a shield-oriented frame but the Archon fire mod is health-oriented. And I will agree to remove the micromanagement on her which is the heat gauge. This gauge mostly just holds her back with no real reason at all just like the death well of Sevagoth. Both are no good for the warframe.

Edited January 30 by Marvelous_A

[ReddyDisco]

Just now, Marvelous_A said:

One issue of Ember for me is she's a shield oriented frame but the Archon fire mod is health oriented.

you can use it unranked, you still get the double heat proc benefit. that's what i do, also on protea

[Marvelous_A]

1 minute ago, ReddyDisco said:

you can use it unranked, you still get the double heat proc benefit. that's what i do, also on protea

Currently I just give up on the shield and use max rank A.Vitality. But honestly her damage is just not that great the A.Vitality isn't doing much anyway.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

Considering her usage dropped YET again in the 2023 stats, yes, she needs desperate help. From most used to barely used definitely shows she hasn't been "fixed" or "buffed" or whatever delusional people tell themselves that she's "fine".

And guess what, we have new and better scaling embers now that barely use energy yet nuke #*!%ing maps, even on steel path. 

Edited January 30 by (XBOX)K1jker