VIDEO: Millennial Gamer Dad On Jade Shadow Quest - This feels wrong

[schilds]

I think there are multiple types of "uncomfortable" here and people are possibly being uncharitable in their interpretation.

If someone associates pregnancy with a fetish or whatever (not the OP, necessarily, but there are other comments to that effect) then yeah, that says more about them than anything.

However, if someone finds it uncomfortable to associate pregnancy with everything a warframe is, that's understandable. Jade is/was not a *doll* manufactured to look pregnant. Think on that. The Orokin were clearly lacking in morals and ethics. The origin of many (most? all?) warframes seems to be based in *human* tragedy. Maybe it's harder to brush that aside with some frames than others.

It's ok for art to confront us. It's also ok for people to find it uncomfortable. That's kind of the point.

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

You're a male, that says enough for me to respectfully tell you that you need to grow up.

Obviously you're an adult, sounds like you have a sensitive ego that can't handle an M rated game. DE is not going to change the frame to cater to your feelings.

I think it is absolutely weird that every male is coming out of the woodworks to complain about a belly on a frame.

What about Grendel? Hmm? Why is sumo frame ok, but a frame that was (PAST TENSE) pregnant?

When you build her, she's not even pregnant, the belly is just what holds her power. Idk why pregnancy is such a sensitive topic for male players, yall aren't the ones who can carry a baby anyway. Most of the women I've seen discussing Jade have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH HER DESIGN.

Just get over it or stop playing the game.

[trst]

2 hours ago, schilds said:

However, if someone finds it uncomfortable to associate pregnancy with everything a warframe is, that's understandable. Jade is/was not a *doll* manufactured to look pregnant. Think on that. The Orokin were clearly lacking in morals and ethics. The origin of many (most? all?) warframes seems to be based in *human* tragedy. Maybe it's harder to brush that aside with some frames than others.

It's still strange that the line is being drawn at pregnancy considering everything else that is present in the game.

 

The Tenno are children forced to becoming weapons of War who were also forced to kill their own parents in the Zariman incident. An incidnet which may have been entirely fabricated by the Orokin.

Warframes were people forced to be mutated into literal weapons in whatever twisted ways Ballas wanted, including performing this on a pregnant woman.

Cephalons were people forcibly digitized into human AIs.

The Orokin would perform Continuity by transferring their Oro into the bodies of unwilling children. Killing said child in the process.

Grineer regularly engage in infanticide on any clone they deem "defective".

Corpus engage in debt slavery and require people to sell off their organs just to work in the environment they're forced to work in, a practice which includes children.

Then there's the wide variety of horrific ways we regularly commit genocide with.

 

But yeah the line is being drawn at a frame that has the appearance of someone who's pregnant. Seems like a very arbitrary line with all the other lines that were crossed with FAR less fuss than Jade is getting.

[Corvid]

My only real problem (for the record I'm male) with Jade's appearance is that she has a pretty major spoiler for the quest inherently baked into her design, so if you happen to purchase Jade (or just see one used by another player) before completing the quest you run the risk of taking away some of its impact. Unfortunately that's not a problem I have a practical solution for.

The "fetishisation" argument, on the other hand, is honestly a bit laughable to me. Name a random Warframe, even going all the way back to the first few, and odds are high that either its design or its powerset will fulfil somebody's kink. Hell, in the early days one of the fandom memes was the fact that Excalibur had the best ass in the game (The Excalibooty), and another early frame (Valkyr) has an official alternate helmet that straight up looks like bondage gear.

Warframe's character designs have always been, to summarise as concisely as I am able, "Grotesquely Beautiful". We kind of take it for granted now since other mainstream games have come out with similarly "out there" visuals over the course of Warframe's life, but it really cannot be overstated just how strange this game's aesthetics were back when it first came out.

Popular sci-fi games back then had a relatively narrow range of styles for their protagonists' factions (mostly practical technology with a lot of hard edges and symmetry), so Warframe, with its misshapen techno-organic armour that often seemed like it was dancing on the line between "war machine" and "art deco piece", came across as outright weird by comparison.

To say a Warframe that draws inspiration from an element of the human experience that we are literally all familiar with to some extent is somehow crossing a line... Well, I just see it as a natural extension of that weirdness. I'd much rather have a DE that is willing to keep exploring these topics even in the face of discomfort than one which is not. It is that very willingness that makes me earnestly believe that Warframe is one of the most human games in its medium, and I would loathe to see that go away.

Edited June 20 by Corvid

[Traumtulpe]

On 2024-06-19 at 6:19 PM, ominumi said:

This really bugs me a lot. If the women looks pregnant but isn't, it's wrong. If the girl looks under age but isn't it's also wrong. Perspective is a mindful thing. Let's keep it that way.

If you follow that logic, then a girl that looks over age but isn't, is "right"? Can't say I agree with that, facts matter more than perception.

What about a woman who's pregnant but doesn't look the part? Honestly I just don't get what you're trying to say.

Edited June 20 by Traumtulpe

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

29 minutes ago, Corvid said:

My only real problem (for the record I'm male) with Jade's appearance is that she has a pretty major spoiler for the quest inherently baked into her design, so if you happen to purchase Jade (or just see one used by another player) before completing the quest you run the risk of taking away some of its impact. Unfortunately that's not a problem I have a practical solution for.

The "fetishisation" argument, on the other hand, is honestly a bit laughable to me. Name a random Warframe, even going all the way back to the first few, and odds are high that either its design or its powerset will fulfil somebody's kink. Hell, in the early days one of the fandom memes was the fact that Excalibur had the best ass in the game (The Excalibooty), and another early frame (Valkyr) has an official alternate helmet that straight up looks like bondage gear.

Warframe's character designs have always been, to summarise as concisely as I am able, "Grotesquely Beautiful". We kind of take it for granted now since other games have come out with similarly "out there" visuals over the course of Warframe's life, but it really cannot be overstated just how strange this game's aesthetics were back when it first came out.

Popular sci-fi games back then had a relatively narrow range of styles for their protagonists' factions (mostly practical technology with a lot of hard edges and symmetry), so Warframe, with its misshapen techno-organic armour that often seemed like it was dancing on the line between "war machine" and "art deco piece", came across as outright weird by comparison.

This could be fixed with a deluxe skin for her in the future, but you'd have to be pretty crazy to immediately drop plat or just plain lazy, to just buy her outright. 

[Alpha_Tango]

With the overreaction of the player base, an alternate skin apt for a non-gregarious WF representing a post-partum Jade is just logical. I have no problem with her present looks though and It is fine if nothing of that sort materializes. I am too old  to be bothered by pixelized characters.,   

Pregnancy is the most beautiful thing, all this weird negative attention should stop already.   

[Corvid]

Just now, (XBOX)AnnabelleNewell said:

This could be fixed with a deluxe skin for her in the future, but you'd have to be pretty crazy to immediately drop plat or just plain lazy, to just buy her outright. 

I didn't myself, but I know of at least one person who had the frame gifted to her before playing through the quest. A case where the generosity of this community kinda backfired. Besides, Jade is a frame that seems to have been rather eagerly anticipated by the community. I don't find it particularly unlikely that some players might have pre-emptively saved up plat and bought her at launch with the intent of fashion-framing her before starting the quest.

And even if that hasn't happened, the issue of seeing other players using her remains. Even a deluxe skin wouldn't solve it, since not every Jade player will use it.

 

Full disclosure: I'm a self-identified whale for this game. I did buy her supporter pack myself, but only after I completed the quest.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

This has been talked about a lot and never goes anywhere: don't play rated M games if you're offended. 

They're always offended by everything except the violence, every time. 

[schilds]

2 hours ago, trst said:

But yeah the line is being drawn at a frame that has the appearance of someone who's pregnant. Seems like a very arbitrary line with all the other lines that were crossed with FAR less fuss than Jade is getting.

 I don't know about the OP, but in general this isn't true though. Plenty of people drew another line at kiddos.

[ominumi]

1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

If you follow that logic, then a girl that looks over age but isn't, is "right"? Can't say I agree with that, facts matter more than perception.

What about a woman who's pregnant but doesn't look the part? Honestly I just don't get what you're trying to say.

The deceiving part is the looks and how personal perspective can warp that image into something that the image wasn't suppose to be. Who do you blame? The person looking? Or the image? There's no right or wrong answer here. Nor good or bad opinions. By life experiences, these certain images are deemed 'acceptable.'

[schilds]

I recall people requesting a toggle for the Solaris too.

I'd also like to clarify the use of the word "arbitrary" here. There are multiple things to consider, for example:

• how personal/remote the portrayal is (e.g. pc vs npc, visual vs text)
• how expected the situation being portrayed is (e.g. soldiers vs civilians being put through the wringer)
• the emotional association (I'd say pregnancy rates pretty high up there in terms of emotional attachment for some people)
• etc.

You don't know what other things people may find uncomfortable, perhaps just not to the point of posting about it. 

We're not talking "arbitrary" as in "That came out of nowhere". We're talking "arbitrary" as in "How large is a hill of beans?" or "Which straw broke the camel's back?"

That is to say, I'd be wary of trying to infer something about a person from the specific bean that tipped them over. It doesn't mean the other beans weren't piling up.

Edited June 20 by schilds

[TheGuyver]

I would love to be able to subsume sol gate on Jade just so I could shoot lasers out of her baby bump. Between the infestation, umbra killing his own son and rhino straight up eating people, I don't see the big deal. 

[Cram_Duahcim]

On 2024-06-19 at 12:02 PM, Mr.Holyroller said:

Also, its going to be really hard to give lore reasoning to how jade received a primed version from the orokin or something.
 

.

They'll have to do some lore expansion on how Primes are actually made.

"Puts tinfoil hat on"

I still believe we will eventually get Stalker's warframe. I think he will get an overhaul to have more unique abilities.

And when they do release him they could do a "pair" with Jade/Stalker similar to the Grendel/Gauss Prime Trailers etc...and explain how they get Primes.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

Am 20.6.2024 um 09:26 schrieb Slayer-.:

Does my inner tube ephemera on my Grendel make me look fatter?   

I remember when that was a thing in the forums, being obese.

I remember it as well, with Grendel and hildryn, how people "couldn't play with them" and how they wanted alternate skins that make them skinny. It's ridiculous

[Genitive]

On 2024-06-19 at 7:19 PM, Circle_of_Psi said:

THAT'S EVEN WORSE XD

Hey, imagine if we could put floofs in there.

[Circle_of_Psi]

25 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Hey, imagine if we could put floofs in there.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

I really just feel like my grievances with Jade are more story-based. The whole quest was way too short and seemed to be more of a frustrating teaser than anything else. I really didn't like that they shoved character development down our throats by making Stalker a dad, one of the most basic and lame ways to add depth, especially since it could have worked better if we just had more time with him or Jade. The eye-roll worthy dialogue didn't help either.

I could care less about the fact she's pregnant, Warframe is a game where it's already been established that the Void can do whatever it wants if someone wants it to happen bad enough, and Ballas being that comedically evil isn't surprising. I was just weirded out by the pacing and blindside's by the midwife minigame and the sudden baby, Jade is in the quest for like a minute and the quest maybe takes ten minutes since 90% of it is walking in and out of her room. 

I really think we should have had the quest at a later date so it could've been in the oven for longer, because this quest explained almost nothing about the Stalker himself and barely included Jade as an actual character. You get more exposition about Ordan Karris and Jade herself from Parvos in the new Operation for crying out loud.

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, (XBOX)AnnabelleNewell said:

You're a male, that says enough for me to respectfully tell you that you need to grow up.

Obviously you're an adult, sounds like you have a sensitive ego that can't handle an M rated game. DE is not going to change the frame to cater to your feelings.

I think it is absolutely weird that every male is coming out of the woodworks to complain about a belly on a frame.

What about Grendel? Hmm? Why is sumo frame ok, but a frame that was (PAST TENSE) pregnant?

When you build her, she's not even pregnant, the belly is just what holds her power. Idk why pregnancy is such a sensitive topic for male players, yall aren't the ones who can carry a baby anyway. Most of the women I've seen discussing Jade have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH HER DESIGN.

Just get over it or stop playing the game.

Honestly that doesnt come across as someone that should tell someone else to grow up. It to me sounds as narrowminded and odd as the people complaining over the way Jade looks. If you had skipped pointing out male, twice in your post I might have taken it more seriously and less cringe.

So my personal suggestions to you. Realize not all males think the same, and stop having misconeptions for 50% of the earths population. We really need neither misogyny or misandry.

That said. Have people completely missed all the requests over the years for an actual Mother based frame? As in a frame based on the idea of the great Mother deities throughout human history? That is practically what we have. A life giver and boon provider, although with an angelic touch instead of a more earthly being. So what exactly is wrong with her belly? Especially when anyone that has played through the quest should know...

Spoiler

That there is no fetus inside. It has already been born and what we have is just a clone from a blueprint obtained from the great and "terrible" Hunhow. Something he managed to create for us while Jade herself disintegrated. The fetus just happened to grow is what would really be her Jade Light chamber by the looks of it.

 

Edited June 21 by SneakyErvin

[OniDax]

Spoiler

I guess I can understand some people feeling very uncomfortable playing as a pregnant frame, because it feels like putting a mother and child at risk. I also get that they like the angelic theme of the frame and the abilities, so they want to use it (so, just saying "don't play it" isn't sufficient). However, it's a game. Look at it as a frame that honors mothers, not a frame that is pregnant with a vulnerable baby. 

My issue is with the story. I don't think the story was developed enough. It felt shallow to me. It feels like DE was more interested in the act of pregnancy more than the story of these characters, their actual relationship, how and why they became what they are, the impact on their unborn child, and why Stalker was still loyal to the Orokin. Instead of getting a few flashbacks with them just standing on Lua, and not showing their faces, we could've had different scenes showing different points in their lives, and adding much more backstory to these characters, while still being a short quest.

My issue is that DE has never really seemed interested in telling the backstory of the Tenno or Stalker, and certainly not in a way that delves into how controlling warframes and being killers affects them. There's no deep character-driven storytelling in this game. It all feels surface level. Even with Sacrifice (the best quest imo, even more than Second Dream), there's no real thought to the Tenno controlling what they now know are people. After seeing who Umbra was, the operator basically goes "I'm going to get my Warframe."

A quest like this would've worked better if they focused on the people and not on the warframes. I think that's the biggest disconnect I have with the lore of the quest. Up until now, the warframes haven't really been characters on their own. It was supposed to be the Tenno who controlled them, and even when Leverian thinks it's the warframes, the idea since TSD has been that this was the operators. This quest makes the warframes the characters. complete with a warframe family and a warframe baby. The warframes are talked about like they're a separate species from humans. The Operator says to Stalker, "You hate warframes." That's the first time Stalker has been said to hate Warframes. He's supposed to hate the Tenno. I get the community treats the warframes like they're characters acting on their own, with their own personalities, but until now, that was really just the community. And I think that robs the human characters (the people who were turned into warframes) of any real character development.

I wish more discussion was about the story and not about how the frame looks.

 

21 hours ago, Cram_Duahcim said:

.

They'll have to do some lore expansion on how Primes are actually made.

"Puts tinfoil hat on"

I still believe we will eventually get Stalker's warframe. I think he will get an overhaul to have more unique abilities.

And when they do release him they could do a "pair" with Jade/Stalker similar to the Grendel/Gauss Prime Trailers etc...and explain how they get Primes.

I don't know how you still believe that. I suspect that they think Stalker is less special if everyone can play as him anywhere. I think it's the same reason they won't even give us his helmet. I certainly don't think they'll ever give him more unique abilities. He serves his intended purpose. They already gave him some more unique abilities and a more unique look (Shadow Stalker) and they walked that with this update. I think they also won't explain how they got Primes. They don't really do that. And here's the main thing: anything that really makes sense for them to do (pairing them up when they release Jade Prime, explaining their backstories, focusing on their actual history, etc.), they won't do. They'll do the unexpected, which is to not deliver the thing people want/expect them to do.

Edited June 21 by OniDax

[Yamazuki]

11 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

So what exactly is wrong with her belly? Especially when anyone that has played through the quest should know...

Not all outrage is genuine, or even real. Especially given op wanted to compare issues surrounding high levels of fear towards spiders and Jade; as if extreme fear of something is the same as not liking an aesthetic.

The solution is simple, as we've already gone through multiple Warframes with unpopular aesthetics. Level them and then forget them. It's unreasonable to expect every character for any given game to be appealing to oneself. Demanding toggles for everything is also unreasonable.

 

[TennoPain]

 It would take a kid less than 1 min to use your imagination 

also you are wrong on stalker ... did you even play the quest did you see ordis ? 

Not all games are for everybody and ppl like you make me feel creepy and cringe inside my brain and im offended kinda as a SC-FI fan 

I would say you should read a book or 2 on sci fi or fantasy its just so unplesent to know some ppl post stuff like this and cant use imagination.

Its just sad so weird and sad. 

 

 

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

On 2024-06-21 at 8:41 PM, Yamazuki said:

Not all outrage is genuine, or even real. Especially given op wanted to compare issues surrounding high levels of fear towards spiders and Jade; as if extreme fear of something is the same as not liking an aesthetic.

Now that you mention this, I now want DE to make a spiderlike warframe, imagine the uproar with that.

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

On 2024-06-20 at 5:57 PM, Cram_Duahcim said:

.

They'll have to do some lore expansion on how Primes are actually made.

"Puts tinfoil hat on"

I still believe we will eventually get Stalker's warframe. I think he will get an overhaul to have more unique abilities.

And when they do release him they could do a "pair" with Jade/Stalker similar to the Grendel/Gauss Prime Trailers etc...and explain how they get Primes.

I mean, this same thing can be applied to frames like Valkyr, Nidus, even Revenant.

Chock it up to space voodoo magic.