The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[notlamprey]

I'm upvoting this on principle, because I think players deserve the option to have 'vacuum power' equal to what Carrier previously provided.

[DoomFruit]

1 hour ago, KrypTic. said:

Also this was just said on the latest update:
"We're keeping an eye on how this affects Sentinel usage and based on that, will decide how to proceed with Vacuum in the future. This is a work in progress, so please send us your feedback!"
Hopefully this is in good faith.

Yes, and we are leaving our feedback, which overwhelmingly states "this sucks, put things back the way they were".

The price of losing a massive amount of utility from one thing is not worth getting 30% of that utility back on a few other things. And then there's the issue that some people actively do not want to use vacuum for various reasons. The far simpler and more effective solution would have been to leave vacuum unchanged, but make it a universal sentinel mod like regen or coolant leak. One would think that ammo mutation + ammo capacity is a strong enough draw for the new carrier.

But nooooo, the nerfbat had to come out. Because we're not allowed anything nice unless it's also accompanied by an equal or greater punishment.

Edited October 6, 2016 by DoomFruit

[Alcoholism]

1 minute ago, AdunSaveMe said:

They haven't given us any reasons.

Do you watch the devstreams and read their posts?
I even directly quoted them in my previous post - how is that hard to understand?

2 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

We've always provided sensible feedback

"We" who are you speaking for? "Always" that is not at all accurate, especially considering the amount of threads I've seen just bashing DE or complaining but not actually posting feedback/suggestions - which is the only thing they're going to listen to as they serve a purpose.

5 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

But time and time again they respond to that feedback

They did respond to the feedback and suggestions they were given. They just didn't respond to the complaining that you assume is feedback, hence the confusion.

6 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

then people like you wonder why we're upset.

I don't need to wonder. The answer is pretty clear. People don't understand the difference between giving feedback/suggestions and throwing out a rant/complaint. They also assume bashing DE like they "understand game development" (lol) is going to change how they conduct their development processes and practices - which it won't.

[JazaJ]

I'm just gonna throw my 2 cents in here. My clan and myself did not like the change at first, we prefer to focus on gameplay rather than running around making sure we have collected all the available loot. However after a few missions using my favourite sentinal, the Diriga instead of using the Carrier, I'm not that against the change anymore. I would go so far as to saying that the universal vacuum needs a slight range increase, to perhaps 8 meters. Other than that, I quite like this change.

Also, I'm not sure why people say Vacuum is for "lazy people". Do you enjoy running around playing loot collector simulator? I know I don't.

[ObviousLee]

20 minutes ago, Azrael said:

 

 

 If I can't parkour past things at mach 10 and pick things up

 

I don't care about your sprint speed, it's about your parkour speed.

 

do you even brain? you say it's not about speed, then say it's about speed in your own post. stop and think about that for a second.

 

edit: aw shucks, that means you gotta get in quasi-close to get things, while engaging enemies. darn. totally unfair.

Edited October 6, 2016 by ObviousLee

[YUNoJump]

Very nice seeing a Vacuum thread that actually provides alternative arguments to "give Vacuum a massive buff with no drawbacks".

Also very nice seeing an option that actually includes our quadrupedal, genetically ruined friends in the equation.

Take my +1 and buy yourself something nice.

[Uottaframe]

DE could add vacuum to warframes too and make the two stack. 6 meters from the warframe plus 6 meters from the sentinel equals 12 meters total.

[Evanescent]

13 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

No, we must rous the rabbles!  Rebel!  Cause anger!  Grr, arg!

But top ideas, Ev.  Seriously.

Skip the passive, dispense loot at the end of the mission.  This allows players to focus on the mission objective as well as the side objectives, likes Synthesis scanning, 10 headshots or Cephalon Fragments. 

Thanks!

It would be cool if it was like a base amount that was multiplied by performance, like kills, stealth, mission objectives, etc.

But then again, if it happens I'll miss the 'pop' of finding that Argon crystal or resource numbers add up as you pick them up.

Another solution could be to add the drops from the enemy exept ammo and energy to the player and allies' inventory directly.

[YUNoJump]

1 minute ago, OzoneAle said:

DE could add vacuum to warframes too and make the two stack. 6 meters from the warframe plus 6 meters from the sentinel equals 12 meters total.

Vacuum as a Warframe mod is a great idea because Warframe mod slots are actually valuable, if Vacuum wasn't Exilus there'd be some real tough compromises to make.

[MagPrime]

Just now, Evanescent said:

Thanks!

It would be cool if it was like a base amount that was multiplied by performance, like kills, stealth, mission objectives, etc.

But then again, if it happens I'll miss the 'pop' of finding that Argon crystal or resource numbers add up as you pick them up.

Another solution could be to add the drops from the enemy exept ammo and energy to the player and allies' inventory directly.

Oh, I like that one.

[Sintag]

You remember when they were about to make Vacuum into three mods instead of a pre-made passive for all Sentinels?

 

Be thankful they didn't go with that instead.

[Jakorak]

53 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

They have always tried to make changes that force people to play more actively whether they like it or not.

I've always been happy with every warframe rework that changes and nerfs things for the purpose of more active play. Picking up the upteenth rubedo from the floor isn't engaging gameplay. Losing a rare mod because you don't notice it or it is inside a wall is an enraging experience. DE is a full decade behind the times on this basic 3D dropped loot game design and it is a pitiful joke

[letir]

Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

And opposite of you, we are here saying the change is just fine because we now can use any other sentinel and get their effects as we like now without feeling like we are missing out on loot. Now a thing which should have been on all sentinels is there without being broken or abusable, as it was before.

It will be perfectly fine change WITHOUT NERFS. And for ANIMALS TOO.

Right now it's a garbage.

Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

And some people are actually trying to argue the counter point that it is fine, as we are fully within our place to do so.

He isn't trying to argue. He literaly saying that DE decided that, so this is a good change.

Just now, ObviousLee said:

I DO know something about intended game design. it's called challenge. The reason for endless mode? force you out when you reach the end of your power threshold. The carrier adjustment? allow the use of other sentinels without sacrificing the most used and loved mechanic within the game for resource/mod/endo/ammo/energy/health gahering to be applied universally to all sentinels, instead of a singular one. Why the range reduction? because you could gather resources from 36 feet around you with absolutely no effort which in game design is commonly referred to as "not functioning as intended" as again, it mitigates the need to use any other sentinel.

get. that through. your skull.

You know no more than me, mister Big.

Especially about all bad moves and kneejerk reactions of DE.

 

And stop trying to force your OPINION on "intended" game design as absolute truth. I don't see anything gamebreacking in simple QoL feature, just as many players around here.

If DE was really interested in cosisntent changes, they shouldn't make cancer weapons like S Simulor and promote sitting gampley so much.

[letir]

-

Edited October 6, 2016 by letir

[Evanescent]

Added some suggestions from the replies!

[Jakorak]

47 minutes ago, CY13ERPUNK said:

not sure if most other ppl cant see the writing on the walls or what, but DE has been moving away from 'passive' gameplay mechanics for awhile now, and the introduction of the ayatan/stars and resource chunks are just another step in that direction

I've always been happy with every warframe rework that changes and nerfs things for the purpose of more active play. Picking up the upteenth rubedo from the floor isn't engaging gameplay. Losing a rare mod because you don't notice it or it is inside a wall is an enraging experience. DE is a full decade behind the times on this basic 3D dropped loot game design and it is a pitiful joke

[Caramello]

This is what warframe is now:

DE you broke the flow of the game... ninjas dont play free anymore, ninjas play at slow pace grabing loot 1 by 1, GJ!

Edit: Not my video btw, still very true tho.

Edited October 6, 2016 by CarameIIo

[Xekrin]

I had to rewatch a couple times just to be sure but that mod was clearly visible on the minimap before you got anywhere near it right?

That's all.

[VocalMagic]

Vacuum from 6 meters out is a step up from Warframe 3m pickup range, but the problem is that unless I'm aiming or trying not to come out of cover, I'll have gone into normal pick-up range by the time Vacuum gets the item to me.

This does not mean to increase the speed vacuum inhales things by

Where Sliding and bullet jumping are the favored methof of transportation, both from "enemies can't hit me" and for speed, such a short pickup range is of no use; It dos not increase the amount of items you'd pick up from the sides, as loot spread from enemies is rarely so kind as to put 2 pieces of LOOT, not just pickups, but LOOT, within 6m of each other, and it does not increase the distance you'd pick things up from in front, because you'd whiz right through the loot you were aiming to zig-zag trough anyway, and either at the speed ov vacuum, or at a speed greater than the speed of Vacuum.

Recommended Solution:
Increase the range to the full 12 meters.

Alternate solution:
If you insist on 6 meter range of some sort, create 4 classes and assign each Sentinel and each Companion a class. Use the three scrapped mod effects for this.
Class A has medium range for effects 1,2,3. This is an all-rounder.
Class B has Long range for effect 1, and short for 2 and 3.
Class C has Long range for effect 2, and short for 1 and 3.
Class D has Long range for effect 3, and short for 1 and 2.

The range for all Long Range pickups should be identical.
The Range for all Short Range pickups should be identical.
The range for Medium Range should fall in the exact center between long and short. All values for Medium range should be identical.

The Mod Effects are innate to the class of Sentinel/Companion, and do not require any mods to activate the class effect.

Edited October 6, 2016 by VocalMagic

[Alcoholism]

Wow you have to turn off your hardcore music and walk around to find your loot?

My music keeps playing and I can still sprint, slide and jump on my game.

I can see that there is a need for vacuum front cone and peripheral range to be increased but I don't see it mentioned here in this thread when the topic this thread is in is called "feedback".

Edited October 6, 2016 by Alcoholism

[Nolc]

Exactly.

 

"Hey, you know what's a good idea? Let's nerf the thing almost every player enjoys using! Let's force them to stop being space ninjas and instead force them to walk slowly on the ground to pick up loot and ammunition!"

[ObviousLee]

5 minutes ago, letir said:

It will be perfectly fine change WITHOUT NERFS. And for ANIMALS TOO.

Right now it's a garbage.

He isn't trying to argue. He literaly saying that DE decided that, so this is a good change.

You know no more than me, mister Big.

Especially about all bad moves and kneejerk reactions of DE.

 

And stop trying to force your OPINION on "intended" game design as absolute truth. I don't see anything gamebreacking in simple QoL feature, just as many players around here.

If DE was really interested in cosisntent changes, they shouldn't make cancer weapons like S Simulor and promote sitting gampley so much.

sit n spit game play? oh you mean like every cheesed xp farm that they've removed/changed?

Synoid simulor, although a problem, is not part of this thread, nor is it genuinely relevant in that we're discussing carrier changes and sentinel buffs. I know it's breaking hearts to have to play the game in such a fashion that puts you at risk of failure(gee, horrid game design i suppose) in order to get rewarded for constant murder, but hey what do i know? i'm not trying to force anything at all, i'm pointing out flaws in the majority of the counter arguments and people simply put, do not like it. unfortunately, thats just the way life works. you may enjoy driving at over two hundred miles per hour, but the speed limit says no.

[Sziklamester]

As you guys mentionned it should be a warframe passive within 5 meter range automatically collected and the loot also should not be falling outside the reachable area.

[Azrael]

15 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

do you even brain? you say it's not about speed, then say it's about speed in your own post

 

18 minutes ago, Azrael said:

Oh good lord. It's NOT ABOUT SPEED.

I'm just gonna guess that you're here to flamewar. I don't wanna flamewar, so leave me out of this from now on. Have fun.

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

2 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Not having old vacuum doesn't decrease resource drops, it just means you have to move more to get them. No loss if you adapt your playstyle slightly. And you can't really say that the goal is to sell a new prime sentinel when there isn't a new prime sentinel, I don't think a new Prime set is coming for a while anyway, Nekros isn't that old. 

I hope everyone can agree that old vacuum didn't need a buff. If new vacuum had the old range for free on all sentinels, that would be a buff. Instead, it has reduced range and is free on all sentinels, the reduced range counters the rest of the buff. The issue definitely arises from the fact that the range is fairly integral to its operation, and shouldn't have been what got nerfed.

I understand that a lot of people really liked old vacuum, I think some people are overreacting when they say the game is broken now but there's definitely enough anger to put the new system into question. Personally I think a high-cost Vacuum mod on all sentinels with old range is the way to go, let it keep the desired range, a buff in the form of being applicable to all sentinels and a nerf in that it costs a lot, thereby not making it as mandatory a pick as old Carrier. 

the ability to use it on all sentinels should not have to be balanced against, its a thing that plenty of people have been suggesting as a QoL change. 89% of players use vacuum, 89% of players got something they use often nerfed to be balanced against something that wasn't good enough in comparison to use. And its an 80% cut. Thats more than significant. Making it universal solves DEs problem of wanting better distribution in sentinel use n could have been done without the Nerf. Would you be ok with them "fixing" the fact that Oberon doesn't get used by making every other warframe do only as much dmg or healing as he can? Its stupidly ridiculous.

In response to your idea on a high cost mod, although it would be better than this nerf, We don't need more high cost mods on companions as they already need a high number of forma just to fit high rank mods n and fill all the slots.

also in response to the first part of your quoted post, not having old vacuum doesn't mean less resource drops, but it does mean a higher chance of missing them, and nekros's rework does in fact equal less drops, which as you said, was still quite recent. As far as selling sentinels, the next pack is agreeably a bit off, but do you think a new prime sentinel would make a good selling point in a prime access if 89% of us are still using carrier prime? I don't, and regardless of when another prime sentinel comes, that would've been an issue. in terms of rotation n such id say were probably due for another one soon, it'll only be another couple prime acceses before carrier gets vaulted, and wyrm already is. N they've done armors n syandanas n sigils recently. But again, the motivation behind them nerfing vacuum are beside the point. Its irrelevant to theorize on reasoning when you cant change it. I'm more focused on trying to get DE to pull its head out of its hindquarters cuz this isnt the first decision they've made that just seems to be turning the game into a sinking ship for alot of people.